Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:46 AM - Re: New cockpit panel (John Wighton)
2. 01:01 AM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__Europa_or_Stainless_Steel_Control_Cable? ()
3. 01:09 AM - Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable (David Joyce)
4. 02:02 AM - Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
5. 02:20 AM - Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable (Lance Sandford)
6. 03:12 AM - EASA noise certificate (kees de bussy)
7. 03:41 AM - Re: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching (Tony Renshaw)
8. 03:51 AM - Re: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching (Gerry Holland)
9. 03:55 AM - Re: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching (Tony Renshaw)
10. 03:56 AM - Re: EASA noise certificate (Bob Harrison)
11. 04:09 AM - Re: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching (Bob Harrison)
12. 04:19 AM - Re: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching (Tony Renshaw)
13. 04:40 AM - Re: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching (Bob Harrison)
14. 04:59 AM - Re: EASA noise certificate (David Joyce)
15. 06:31 AM - Re: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching (Bob Harrison)
16. 08:31 AM - Re: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching (Kevin Challis)
17. 12:01 PM - Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable (spcialeffects)
18. 01:19 PM - Re: New cockpit panel (Roland)
19. 03:00 PM - Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable (Mike Baker)
20. 08:54 PM - Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? (rparigoris)
21. 09:32 PM - Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? (spcialeffects)
22. 09:38 PM - Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? (craig)
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| Subject: | Re: New cockpit panel |
Chaps,
The LAA mod process is slow but does not need to be expensive, the rate of charges
to submit a new mod is in fact quite low. For a new full width panel there
would be little stress justification required and no testing.
The current panel profile and stiffness have never, to my knowledge, been subjected
to any form of compliance testing (nor are there any specific requirements).
The revised panel, to full width would need to be shown to have zero or negligible
effect on visibility, be shown to have sufficient margins of strength in the
means of fastening it to the fuselage, allow full stick movement and not impede
exit in the case of an emergency.
Much of the above are common sense, wordy type submissions. The stress work involves
simple sums to show the shear forces and bending moments applied to the
fuselage via the attachments are good.
Frans in Holland did a nice job of his full width panel. It seems like a sensible
starting point for anyone doing the same. I started the process myself a
few years ago (purchasing the club spare panel) but ended up with an articulated
mount for an iPad instead - see pictures of GIPOD on 'airlines' etc.
Regards
John
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419698#419698
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: utf-8?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_Europa_or_Stainless_Steel_Control_Cable? |
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable |
Pete, My use of the tube, approved by my inspector (in
fact suggested by him) is simply to cover the gap across
the wheel well. It is fixed there with a cable tie and can
readily be slid fore or aft for inspection. Regards, David
(Joyce)
On Mon, 3 Mar 2014 08:55:22 +0000
<pjeffers@talktalk.net> wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> Whilst I do not disagree with the advantages of plastic
>tubing being used in this manner, as an inspector who
>each year is required by LAA to certify the condition of
>these cables, I have to add that it is impossible to
>inspect cables that are inside a plastic tube. Those who
>have gone down this route for protection will be aware of
>the work involved in gaining visual access to the entire
>length of cable that lies out of sight.
>
> Pete Jeffers LAA Insp.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: David Joyce
> Sent: Sunday, 2 March 2014 17:48
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
><davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> One tip for those installing rudder cables in a mono is
>to
> run them inside the light plastic tubing (used
>extensively
> in gliders) through the wheel well. It is virtually
> friction free and protects them entirely from damp &
>grit.
> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>
>
> On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 08:55:07 -0800 (PST)
> Mike Baker <galahav@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Mil-DTL-83420 is the general spec that describes the
>>requirements flight control cables
>> Composition A - Carbon steel, zinc, or tin over zinc
>>coated
>> steel cable is stronger and stiffer than corrosion
>>resistant steel
>>
>> MIL-DTL-83420/1 - Wire Rope, Flexible, Type I,
>>Composition A.
>> M83420/1-005 Indicates - Wire Rope, Flexible, Type I,
>>Carbon Steel,
>> Construction; 7 x 19, Nominal Diameter 5/32
>>
>> Composition B - Corrosion resistant steel
>> MIL-DTL-83420/2 - Wire Rope, Flexible, Type I,
>>Composition B.
>> MIL-DTL-781 - Terminal, Wire Rope Swaging, General
>>Specification for.
>>
>> use this info to find the spec of cable you have
>> the nicopress is usable on either. best to ck spec on
>>swaging
>>
>> the best place I know of for flight control cables is
>>Mcfarlane aviation (USA)
>> also a good source for other "stuff"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>> To: "europa-list@matronics.com"
>><europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2014 4:14 AM
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel
>>Control Cable
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, stainless was developed for yachts, sea water
>>contamination resistant. There isn't much bending in the
>>Europa so no worries about fatigue.
>> Must be the multi strand stuff though, 7X19 springs to
>>mind but anyway it's fine wire strands for flexibility.
>> Graham
>>
>> Also be sure you use the right crimps, plated I think,
>>not plain copper. Get a second opinion, I not as young as
>>I once was!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>> To: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>;
>>europa-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Sunday, 2 March 2014, 6:04
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel
>>Control Cable
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Graham,
>> Wish I knew if it was what was supplied by Europa. Ive
>>had the kit too long to know, things have been moved
>>around, and I dont recall the Europa stuff ever being
>>labelled.
>> Maybe someone else might be able to clarify. Worst part
>>is, it looks old even though it mightnt be. It reminds
>>me of a Hills Hoist outside clothes line cable, but I
>>think that is more of an Aussie thing. I actually dont
>>have enough Nicopress sleeves now so Ill need more of
>>those anyway, so I can get some more pretty stuff ;-)
>> You normally use Stainless Steel cable by choice dont
>>you??
>> TR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 Mar 2014, at 10:18 am, GRAHAM SINGLETON
>><grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>> Tony
>>>I'd say go ahead with the galvanised steel cable. It
>>>should be fine in Oz, so long as you don't go
>>>ocean sailing with it!
>>>Graham
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>>From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>>>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>>Sent: Saturday, 1 March 2014, 22:49
>>>Subject: Europa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel Control
>>>Cable
>>>
>>>
>>><tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>Gidday,
>>>I have gone through my fair share of cable, and
>>>consequently I have bits everywhere. I have a roll of
>>>cable which appears to be galvanised, or really dull
>>>Stainless Steel, which I believe doesnt happen. Why have
>>>nice shiny Stainless, if it stains. So, the best advice I
>>>have to figure out what is what is to use a magnet. The
>>>unknown roll of dull cable I have is extremely attractive
>>>to the magnet, and the Stainless is only slightly, but
>>>still is drawn towards the magnet on a really long
>>>suspended run, like the length in
>> the aft fuselage, towards the magnet when it is mm away,
>>but it still attracts it. So, this other roll I can only
>>imagine might have been that supplied by Europa, and I
>>wouldnt know because this roll has no product code or
>>numbers on it.
>>>My question, whilst Id prefer to use Stainless just
>>>because it doesnt look like it has been in the aircraft
>>>for a million years, however the gal cable (or whatever
>>>it is) I am told is more durable especially in terms of
>>>bends. This is a conservative approach from gliders where
>>>control cabling can have acute bends, but we dont have
>>>that. So, should I resurrect this roll of cable out of my
>>>waste bin and use it, or should I replace it with
>>>Stainless Steel?
>>>Thanks for any advice or help, and I appreciate all the
>>>help Ive got with this sofar.
>>>Regards
>>>Tony Renshawhttp://forums.matronics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>>http://=======================
>> ================
>
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>Admin.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable |
imho plastic tube is a good idea. If the tube is split the cable can be spr
ung out of it for =0Ainspection , then popped back in. I think Lancairs spe
cify nylon tube to duct the rudder cables.=0AA few of those in the UK. Find
an inspector who does Lancairs?=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________
_____________=0A From: David Joyce <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>=0ATo: europa
-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 3 March 2014, 9:09=0ASubject: Re: Euro
pa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable=0A =0A=0A--> Europa-List m
essage posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>=0A=0APete, My u
se of the tube, approved by my inspector (in fact suggested by him) is simp
ly to cover the gap across the wheel well. It is fixed there with a cable t
ie and can readily be slid fore or aft for inspection. Regards, David (Joyc
e)=0A=0A=0AOn Mon, 3 Mar 2014 08:55:22 +0000=0A<pjeffers@talktalk.net> wrot
e:=0A> Hi David,=0A> =0A> Whilst I do not disagree with the advantages of p
lastic tubing being used in this manner, as an inspector who each year is r
equired by LAA to certify the condition of these cables, I have to add that
it is impossible to inspect cables that are inside a plastic tube.=C2- T
hose who have gone down this route for protection will be aware of the work
involved in gaining visual access to the entire length of cable that lies
out of sight.=0A> =0A> Pete=C2- Jeffers=C2- LAA Insp.=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A
> =0A> =0A> =0A> From: David Joyce=0A> Sent: =8ESunday=8E,
=8E2=8E =8EMarch=8E =8E2014 =8E17=8E
:=8E48=0A> To: europa-list@matronics.com=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>
k>=0A> =0A> One tip for those installing rudder cables in a mono is to run
them inside the light plastic tubing (used extensively in gliders) through
the wheel well. It is virtually friction free and protects them entirely fr
om damp & grit.=0A> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ=0A> =0A> =0A> On Sun, 2 Mar
2014 08:55:07 -0800 (PST)=0A>=C2- Mike Baker <galahav@yahoo.com> wrote:
=0A>> Mil-DTL-83420 is the general spec that describes the requirements fli
ght control cables=0A>>=C2- Composition A - Carbon steel, zinc, or tin ov
er zinc coated=0A>> steel cable is stronger and stiffer than corrosion resi
stant steel=C2- MIL-DTL-83420/1 - Wire Rope, Flexible, Type I, Compositio
n A.=0A>>=C2- M83420/1-005 Indicates - Wire Rope, Flexible, Type I, Carbo
n Steel,=0A>> Construction; 7 x 19, Nominal Diameter 5/32=0A>>=C2- Compos
ition B - Corrosion resistant steel=0A>> MIL-DTL-83420/2 - Wire Rope, Flexi
ble, Type I, Composition B.=0A>>=C2- MIL-DTL-781 - Terminal, Wire Rope Sw
aging, General Specification for.=0A>>=C2- use this info to find the spec
of cable you have=0A>> the nicopress is usable on either. best to ck spec
on swaging=C2- the best place I know of for flight control cables is Mcfa
rlane aviation (USA) also a good source for other "stuff"=0A>>=C2- =C2-
=0A>> =0A>> ________________________________=0A>> From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <
grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>=0A>> To: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europ
a-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2014 4:14 AM=0A>> Subject: Re:
Europa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable=0A>>=C2- =0A>> =0A>
> Yes, stainless was developed for yachts, sea water contamination resistan
t. There isn't much bending in the Europa so no worries about fatigue.=0A>>
Must be the multi strand stuff though, 7X19 springs to mind but anyway it'
s fine wire strands for flexibility.=0A>> Graham=0A>> =0A>> Also be sure yo
u use the right crimps, plated I think, not plain copper. Get a second opin
ion, I not as young as I once was!=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> _____
___________________________=0A>> From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.c
om>=0A>> To: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>; europa-list
@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, 2 March 2014, 6:04=0A>> Subject: Re: Europa-Li
st: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable=0A>>=C2- =0A>> =0A>> Hi Graha
m,=0A>> Wish I knew if it was what was supplied by Europa. I=99ve had
the kit too long to know, things have been moved around, and I don
=99t recall the Europa stuff ever being labelled. Maybe someone else might
be able to clarify. Worst part is, it looks old even though it mightn
=99t be. It reminds me of a Hills Hoist outside clothes line cable, but I t
hink that is more of an Aussie thing. I actually don=99t have enough
Nicopress sleeves now so I=99ll need more of those anyway, so I can g
et some more pretty stuff ;-)=0A>> You normally use Stainless Steel cable b
y choice don=99t you??=0A>> TR=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> On 2 Mar
2014, at 10:18 am, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:
=0A>> =0A>> Tony=0A>>> I'd say go ahead with the galvanised steel cable. It
should be fine in Oz, so long as you don't go ocean sailing with it!=0A>>>
Graham=0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> ___________________
_____________=0A>>> From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0A>>> To:
europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, 1 March 2014, 22:49=0A>>> Subjec
t: Europa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable=0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>>
=0A>>> =0A>>> Gidday,=0A>>> I have gone through my fair share of cable, and
consequently I have bits everywhere. I have a roll of cable which appears
to be galvanised, or really dull Stainless Steel, which I believe doesn
=99t happen. Why have nice shiny Stainless, if it stains. So, the best a
dvice I have to figure out what is what is to use a magnet. The unknown rol
l of dull cable I have is extremely attractive to the magnet, and the Stain
less is only slightly, but still is drawn towards the magnet on a really lo
ng suspended run, like the length in=0A>> the aft fuselage, towards the mag
net when it is mm away, but it still attracts it. So, this other roll I can
only imagine might have been that supplied by Europa, and I wouldn
=99t know because this roll has no product code or numbers on it. =0A>>> My
question, whilst I=99d prefer to use Stainless just because it doesn
=99t look like it has been in the aircraft for a million years, howev
er the gal cable (or whatever it is) I am told is more durable especially i
n terms of bends. This is a conservative approach from gliders where contro
l cabling can have acute bends, but we don=99t have that. So, should
I resurrect this roll of cable out of my waste bin and use it, or should I
replace it with Stainless Steel?=0A>>> Thanks for any advice or help, and I
appreciate all the help I=99ve got with this sofar. Regards=0A>>> To
ny Renshawhttp://forums.matronics.com=0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> =0A
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0A>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">
http://forums.matronics.com=0A>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>> =0A>> =0A>> http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://===========
============ ============
==C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
==C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable |
Pete
If turnbuckles are installed in the rear fuselage it is a simple matter
to disconnect the cables at the turnbuckles and draw the cable forward
from the rudder pedal end to inspect the hidden portion of cable.
Lance Sandford in OZ
On 03/03/14 18:55, pjeffers@talktalk.net wrote:
> Hi David,
> Whilst I do not disagree with the advantages of plastic tubing being
> used in this manner, as an inspector who each year is required by LAA
> to certify the condition of these cables, I have to add that it is
> impossible to inspect cables that are inside a plastic tube. Those
> who have gone down this route for protection will be aware of the work
> involved in gaining visual access to the entire length of cable that
> lies out of sight.
> Pete Jeffers LAA Insp.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | EASA noise certificate |
Hi all,
In order to renew a special airworthness certificate (permit to fly) I need a copy
of EASA noise certificate of a Europa XS trigear with Rotax 914 fitted with
a groud adjustable Warp drive propeller with C or N blades. Anybody out there
who can help me out ?
Kees de Bussy
PH-GOO (previous F-PSMU)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419703#419703
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching |
Hi Craig and co.
I want to put 75 mm onto the shelf, bringing it aft into the footwell, to give
me a place for my heels. Is that a dumb idea because only being 5 9 or 175 cm,
I think my legs will easily fit, and I imagine because of the upright nature
of the pedals at neutral, that it might be nice to build a heel support. Bad idea???
TR
On 3 Mar 2014, at 10:00 pm, craig <craigb@onthenet.com.au> wrote:
> Yes tony, you can take about 75mm off, I worked out where the mounts were
> going to be then cut it back
> To leave about 15mm past the end of the rearmost mounts
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 12:30 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
>
>
> Gidday,
> I've heard it mentioned that to extend this step back a bit might make
> things more comfortable. Can I get an input on what dimension is
> recommended? I've heard about 75 mm would do it, and I will probably build
> it into my floor mat mod that I want to do.
> Thanks.
> Regards
> Tony Renshaw
> Sydney Aussie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching |
Tony
I made some heel rests without all that work. When I get home tonight I'll see
if I can find photos.
Used aluminium 'rice' plate. Very light and bendable.
Gerry
Sent from my iPhone
> On 3 Mar 2014, at 11:40, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Craig and co.
> I want to put 75 mm onto the shelf, bringing it aft into the footwell, to give
me a place for my heels. Is that a dumb idea because only being 5 9 or 175 cm,
I think my legs will easily fit, and I imagine because of the upright nature
of the pedals at neutral, that it might be nice to build a heel support. Bad
idea???
>
> TR
>
>> On 3 Mar 2014, at 10:00 pm, craig <craigb@onthenet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> Yes tony, you can take about 75mm off, I worked out where the mounts were
>> going to be then cut it back
>> To leave about 15mm past the end of the rearmost mounts
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw
>> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 12:30 PM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Europa-List: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
>>
>>
>> Gidday,
>> I've heard it mentioned that to extend this step back a bit might make
>> things more comfortable. Can I get an input on what dimension is
>> recommended? I've heard about 75 mm would do it, and I will probably build
>> it into my floor mat mod that I want to do.
>> Thanks.
>> Regards
>> Tony Renshaw
>> Sydney Aussie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching |
hi Gerry,
I have no clue what aluminium =93rice=94 plate is. Look forward to the
photos.
Thanks.
TR
On 3 Mar 2014, at 10:50 pm, Gerry Holland
<gholland@content-stream.co.uk> wrote:
<gholland@content-stream.co.uk>
>
> Tony
> I made some heel rests without all that work. When I get home tonight
I'll see if I can find photos.
> Used aluminium 'rice' plate. Very light and bendable.
> Gerry
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 3 Mar 2014, at 11:40, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
<tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>>
>> Hi Craig and co.
>> I want to put 75 mm onto the shelf, bringing it aft into the
footwell, to give me a place for my heels. Is that a dumb idea because
only being 5=92 9=94 or 175 cm, I think my legs will easily fit, and I
imagine because of the upright nature of the pedals at neutral, that it
might be nice to build a heel support. Bad idea???
>>
>> TR
>>
>>> On 3 Mar 2014, at 10:00 pm, craig <craigb@onthenet.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes tony, you can take about 75mm off, I worked out where the mounts
were
>>> going to be then cut it back
>>> To leave about 15mm past the end of the rearmost mounts
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony
Renshaw
>>> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 12:30 PM
>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Europa-List: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
>>>
<tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Gidday,
>>> I've heard it mentioned that to extend this step back a bit might
make
>>> things more comfortable. Can I get an input on what dimension is
>>> recommended? I've heard about 75 mm would do it, and I will probably
build
>>> it into my floor mat mod that I want to do.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Regards
>>> Tony Renshaw
>>> Sydney Aussie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | EASA noise certificate |
In his day Dave Bosomworth fixed me up on an emergency basis once when I was
at Templhof Berlin ! but it was for a Woodcomp SL 3000 CS prop. but don't
split hairs though !!Regards
\Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kees de bussy
Sent: 03 March 2014 11:12
Subject: Europa-List: EASA noise certificate
--> <keesdebussy@hotmail.com>
Hi all,
In order to renew a special airworthness certificate (permit to fly) I need
a copy of EASA noise certificate of a Europa XS trigear with Rotax 914
fitted with a groud adjustable Warp drive propeller with C or N blades.
Anybody out there who can help me out ?
Kees de Bussy
PH-GOO (previous F-PSMU)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419703#419703
Message 11
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| Subject: | Rudder Pedal Step Stretching |
IMHO Bad idea . I just put a piece of 1.5" "I" section aluminium across the
footwell step and it works for me and I'm 5'9" and on a long flight you will
need to practice "walking" with as much room as you can have to prevent the
onset of cramp in the legs.
Also keep your knee from being near the draught vent more cause for cramp!
After a 4hour 30 minute flight to Krems Vienna My choice was to pretend
walking like hell or choose landing along or across vineyard wires on fields
as for as the eye could see, with tears streaming down my face. Also dose up
on a good layer of Quinine tablets !
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw
Sent: 03 March 2014 11:40
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
--> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
Hi Craig and co.
I want to put 75 mm onto the shelf, bringing it aft into the footwell, to
give me a place for my heels. Is that a dumb idea because only being 5' 9"
or 175 cm, I think my legs will easily fit, and I imagine because of the
upright nature of the pedals at neutral, that it might be nice to build a
heel support. Bad idea???
TR
On 3 Mar 2014, at 10:00 pm, craig <craigb@onthenet.com.au> wrote:
> Yes tony, you can take about 75mm off, I worked out where the mounts
> were going to be then cut it back To leave about 15mm past the end of
> the rearmost mounts
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony
> Renshaw
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 12:30 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
>
> --> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>
> Gidday,
> I've heard it mentioned that to extend this step back a bit might make
> things more comfortable. Can I get an input on what dimension is
> recommended? I've heard about 75 mm would do it, and I will probably
> build it into my floor mat mod that I want to do.
> Thanks.
> Regards
> Tony Renshaw
> Sydney Aussie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching |
Hi Bob,
I know what an "I" section is, but I just can't imagine what you mean. If you said
"L" shape, to protect the Trailing edge of the rudder pedal attachment shelf,
I would have been with you, but I'm a tad lost.
Tony R
Sent from my iPad
> On 3 Mar 2014, at 11:09 pm, "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev@talktalk.net> wrote:
>
>
> IMHO Bad idea . I just put a piece of 1.5" "I" section aluminium across the
> footwell step and it works for me and I'm 5'9" and on a long flight you will
> need to practice "walking" with as much room as you can have to prevent the
> onset of cramp in the legs.
> Also keep your knee from being near the draught vent more cause for cramp!
> After a 4hour 30 minute flight to Krems Vienna My choice was to pretend
> walking like hell or choose landing along or across vineyard wires on fields
> as for as the eye could see, with tears streaming down my face. Also dose up
> on a good layer of Quinine tablets !
> Regards
> Bob H G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw
> Sent: 03 March 2014 11:40
> To: craig; europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
>
> --> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>
> Hi Craig and co.
> I want to put 75 mm onto the shelf, bringing it aft into the footwell, to
> give me a place for my heels. Is that a dumb idea because only being 5' 9"
> or 175 cm, I think my legs will easily fit, and I imagine because of the
> upright nature of the pedals at neutral, that it might be nice to build a
> heel support. Bad idea???
>
> TR
>
>> On 3 Mar 2014, at 10:00 pm, craig <craigb@onthenet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> Yes tony, you can take about 75mm off, I worked out where the mounts
>> were going to be then cut it back To leave about 15mm past the end of
>> the rearmost mounts
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony
>> Renshaw
>> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 12:30 PM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Europa-List: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
>>
>> --> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>>
>> Gidday,
>> I've heard it mentioned that to extend this step back a bit might make
>> things more comfortable. Can I get an input on what dimension is
>> recommended? I've heard about 75 mm would do it, and I will probably
>> build it into my floor mat mod that I want to do.
>> Thanks.
>> Regards
>> Tony Renshaw
>> Sydney Aussie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Rudder Pedal Step Stretching |
Tony .......if you imagine the web of the "I" section being used to bolt
about 9" of the section on to aft side of the step you have about an inch
flange laying on top of the step and an inch flange protruding into the foot
well space. Against which you can push all your weight to lever yourself up
the seat back to get out by standing then on the seat without stressing the
floor or anywhere else. Sorry I can't get to the plane to submit a photo at
present.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw
Sent: 03 March 2014 12:19
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
--> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
Hi Bob,
I know what an "I" section is, but I just can't imagine what you mean. If
you said "L" shape, to protect the Trailing edge of the rudder pedal
attachment shelf, I would have been with you, but I'm a tad lost.
Tony R
Sent from my iPad
> On 3 Mar 2014, at 11:09 pm, "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev@talktalk.net> wrote:
>
> --> <ptag.dev@talktalk.net>
>
> IMHO Bad idea . I just put a piece of 1.5" "I" section aluminium
> across the footwell step and it works for me and I'm 5'9" and on a
> long flight you will need to practice "walking" with as much room as
> you can have to prevent the onset of cramp in the legs.
> Also keep your knee from being near the draught vent more cause for cramp!
> After a 4hour 30 minute flight to Krems Vienna My choice was to
> pretend walking like hell or choose landing along or across vineyard
> wires on fields as for as the eye could see, with tears streaming down
> my face. Also dose up on a good layer of Quinine tablets !
> Regards
> Bob H G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony
> Renshaw
> Sent: 03 March 2014 11:40
> To: craig; europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
>
> --> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>
> Hi Craig and co.
> I want to put 75 mm onto the shelf, bringing it aft into the footwell,
> to give me a place for my heels. Is that a dumb idea because only being 5'
9"
> or 175 cm, I think my legs will easily fit, and I imagine because of
> the upright nature of the pedals at neutral, that it might be nice to
> build a heel support. Bad idea???
>
> TR
>
>> On 3 Mar 2014, at 10:00 pm, craig <craigb@onthenet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> Yes tony, you can take about 75mm off, I worked out where the mounts
>> were going to be then cut it back To leave about 15mm past the end of
>> the rearmost mounts
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony
>> Renshaw
>> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 12:30 PM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Europa-List: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
>>
>> --> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>>
>> Gidday,
>> I've heard it mentioned that to extend this step back a bit might
>> make things more comfortable. Can I get an input on what dimension is
>> recommended? I've heard about 75 mm would do it, and I will probably
>> build it into my floor mat mod that I want to do.
>> Thanks.
>> Regards
>> Tony Renshaw
>> Sydney Aussie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: EASA noise certificate |
Kees, Noise certificates are available from the Europa
club. You should find details on the website
(www.theeuropaclub.org) or simply contact the chairman.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
On Mon, 3 Mar 2014 11:56:13 -0000
"Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev@talktalk.net> wrote:
><ptag.dev@talktalk.net>
>
> In his day Dave Bosomworth fixed me up on an emergency
>basis once when I was
> at Templhof Berlin ! but it was for a Woodcomp SL 3000 CS
>prop. but don't
> split hairs though !!Regards
> \Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
>Of kees de bussy
> Sent: 03 March 2014 11:12
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: EASA noise certificate
>
><keesdebussy@hotmail.com>
>
> Hi all,
>
> In order to renew a special airworthness certificate
>(permit to fly) I need
> a copy of EASA noise certificate of a Europa XS trigear
>with Rotax 914
> fitted with a groud adjustable Warp drive propeller with
>C or N blades.
> Anybody out there who can help me out ?
>
> Kees de Bussy
> PH-GOO (previous F-PSMU)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419703#419703
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Admin.
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Rudder Pedal Step Stretching |
Tony ..........I'm sorry I have had a brain storm I meant "T" section .
Probably that will help you get your mind round what I am saying ! I may
get a photo put up to you direct by this evening
Regards and sorry ..
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Harrison
Sent: 03 March 2014 12:40
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
--> <ptag.dev@talktalk.net>
Tony .......if you imagine the web of the "I" section being used to bolt
about 9" of the section on to aft side of the step you have about an inch
flange laying on top of the step and an inch flange protruding into the foot
well space. Against which you can push all your weight to lever yourself up
the seat back to get out by standing then on the seat without stressing the
floor or anywhere else. Sorry I can't get to the plane to submit a photo at
present.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw
Sent: 03 March 2014 12:19
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
--> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
Hi Bob,
I know what an "I" section is, but I just can't imagine what you mean. If
you said "L" shape, to protect the Trailing edge of the rudder pedal
attachment shelf, I would have been with you, but I'm a tad lost.
Tony R
Sent from my iPad
> On 3 Mar 2014, at 11:09 pm, "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev@talktalk.net> wrote:
>
> --> <ptag.dev@talktalk.net>
>
> IMHO Bad idea . I just put a piece of 1.5" "I" section aluminium
> across the footwell step and it works for me and I'm 5'9" and on a
> long flight you will need to practice "walking" with as much room as
> you can have to prevent the onset of cramp in the legs.
> Also keep your knee from being near the draught vent more cause for cramp!
> After a 4hour 30 minute flight to Krems Vienna My choice was to
> pretend walking like hell or choose landing along or across vineyard
> wires on fields as for as the eye could see, with tears streaming down
> my face. Also dose up on a good layer of Quinine tablets !
> Regards
> Bob H G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony
> Renshaw
> Sent: 03 March 2014 11:40
> To: craig; europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
>
> --> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>
> Hi Craig and co.
> I want to put 75 mm onto the shelf, bringing it aft into the footwell,
> to give me a place for my heels. Is that a dumb idea because only being 5'
9"
> or 175 cm, I think my legs will easily fit, and I imagine because of
> the upright nature of the pedals at neutral, that it might be nice to
> build a heel support. Bad idea???
>
> TR
>
>> On 3 Mar 2014, at 10:00 pm, craig <craigb@onthenet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> Yes tony, you can take about 75mm off, I worked out where the mounts
>> were going to be then cut it back To leave about 15mm past the end of
>> the rearmost mounts
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony
>> Renshaw
>> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 12:30 PM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Europa-List: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
>>
>> --> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>>
>> Gidday,
>> I've heard it mentioned that to extend this step back a bit might
>> make things more comfortable. Can I get an input on what dimension is
>> recommended? I've heard about 75 mm would do it, and I will probably
>> build it into my floor mat mod that I want to do.
>> Thanks.
>> Regards
>> Tony Renshaw
>> Sydney Aussie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching |
TR
I am 5'8" (short) and have the standard rudder pedals setup. I have never found
it uncomfortable.
Kevin Challis
> On 3 Mar 2014, at 11:40, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Craig and co.
> I want to put 75 mm onto the shelf, bringing it aft into the footwell, to give
me a place for my heels. Is that a dumb idea because only being 5 9 or 175 cm,
I think my legs will easily fit, and I imagine because of the upright nature
of the pedals at neutral, that it might be nice to build a heel support. Bad
idea???
>
> TR
>
>> On 3 Mar 2014, at 10:00 pm, craig <craigb@onthenet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> Yes tony, you can take about 75mm off, I worked out where the mounts were
>> going to be then cut it back
>> To leave about 15mm past the end of the rearmost mounts
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw
>> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 12:30 PM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Europa-List: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
>>
>>
>> Gidday,
>> I've heard it mentioned that to extend this step back a bit might make
>> things more comfortable. Can I get an input on what dimension is
>> recommended? I've heard about 75 mm would do it, and I will probably build
>> it into my floor mat mod that I want to do.
>> Thanks.
>> Regards
>> Tony Renshaw
>> Sydney Aussie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable |
I'm just fitting the rudder pedals and cables and was advised by Ivor Phillips to fit these http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/nylaflow.php
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419735#419735
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: New cockpit panel |
Hi John,
thanks for throwing some light on this. By no stretch of the imagination I could
think of a Europa performing a crash test.
Indeed Frans and Ilona did a similar Job with an Aluminium front panel on their
PH-DIY, although they had some more space available since it is a HI-TOP.
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS Trigear 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419737#419737
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable |
=0A=0A=0A=0ACable swage=0Ahttp://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_
circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/99861=0A=C2-=C2-
=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Mike Baker <galahav@yah
oo.com>=0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europa-list@matronics.com> =0ASe
nt: Sunday, March 2, 2014 10:55 AM=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Europa or St
ainless Steel Control Cable=0A =0A=0A=0AMil-DTL-83420 is the general spec
that describes the requirements flight control cables=0A=C2-Composition A
- Carbon steel, zinc, or tin over zinc coated=0Asteel cable is stronger an
d stiffer than corrosion resistant steel=0A=0A=0AMIL-DTL-83420/1 - Wire Rop
e, Flexible, Type I, Composition A.=0AM83420/1-005 Indicates - Wire Rope, F
lexible, Type I, Carbon Steel,=0AConstruction; 7 x 19, Nominal Diameter 5/3
2=0A=0AComposition B - Corrosion resistant steel=0AMIL-DTL-83420/2 - Wire R
ope, Flexible, Type I, Composition B.=0AMIL-DTL-781 - Terminal, Wire Rope S
waging, General Specification for.=0A=0Ause this info to find the spec of c
able you have=0Athe nicopress is usable on either. best to ck spec on swagi
ng =0A=0Athe best place I know of for flight control cables is Mcfarlane av
iation (USA) =0Aalso a good source for other "stuff"=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A____
____________________________=0A From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@bti
nternet.com>=0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europa-list@matronics.com>
=0ASent: Sunday, March 2, 2014 4:14 AM=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Europa o
r Stainless Steel Control Cable=0A =0A=0A=0AYes, stainless was developed f
or yachts, sea water contamination resistant. There isn't much bending in t
he Europa so no worries about fatigue.=0AMust be the multi strand stuff tho
ugh, 7X19 springs to mind but anyway it's fine wire strands for flexibility
.=0AGraham=0A=0AAlso be sure you use the right crimps, plated I think, not
plain copper. Get a second opinion, I not as young as I once was!=0A=0A=0A
=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrensh
aw268@gmail.com>=0ATo: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>; e
uropa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 2 March 2014, 6:04=0ASubject: Re:
Europa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable=0A =0A=0A=0AHi Graha
m,=0AWish I knew if it was what was supplied by Europa. I=99ve had th
e kit too long to know, things have been moved around, and I don=99t
recall the Europa stuff ever being labelled.=C2-=0AMaybe someone else mig
ht be able to clarify. Worst part is, it looks old even though it mightn
=99t be. It reminds me of a Hills Hoist outside clothes line cable, but
I think that is more of an Aussie thing. I actually don=99t have enou
gh Nicopress sleeves now so I=99ll need more of those anyway, so I ca
n get some more pretty stuff ;-)=0AYou normally use Stainless Steel cable b
y choice don=99t you??=0ATR=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 2 Mar 2014, at 10:18 am,
GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:=0A=0ATony=0A>I'd
say go ahead with the galvanised steel cable. It should be fine in Oz, so l
ong as you don't go=C2-=0A>ocean sailing with it!=0A>Graham=0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A>From:=C2-Tony Renshaw
<tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0A>To:=C2-europa-list@matronics.com=C2-=0A>
Sent:=C2-Saturday, 1 March 2014, 22:49=0A>Subject:=C2-Europa-List: Euro
pa or Stainless Steel Control Cable=0A>=0A>=0A>--> Europa-List message post
ed by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0A>=0A>Gidday,=0A>I have gon
e through my fair share of cable, and consequently I have bits everywhere.
I have a roll of cable which appears to be galvanised, or really dull Stain
less Steel, which I believe doesn=99t happen. Why have nice shiny Sta
inless, if it stains. So, the best advice I have to figure out what is what
is to use a magnet. The unknown roll of dull cable I have is extremely att
ractive to the=0A magnet, and the Stainless is only slightly, but still is
drawn towards the magnet on a really long suspended run, like the length in
=0A the aft fuselage, towards the magnet when it is mm away, but it still a
ttracts it. So, this other roll I can only imagine might have been that sup
plied by Europa, and I wouldn=99t know because this roll has no produ
ct code or numbers on it.=C2-=0A>My question, whilst I=99d prefer t
o use Stainless just because it doesn=99t look like it has been in th
e aircraft for a million years, however the gal cable (or whatever it is) I
am told is more durable especially in terms of bends. This is a conservati
ve approach from gliders where control cabling can have acute bends, but we
don=99t have that. So, should I resurrect this roll of cable out of
my waste bin and use it, or should I replace it with Stainless Steel?=0A>Th
anks for any advice or help, and I appreciate all the help I=99ve got
with this sofar.=C2-=0A>Regards=0A>Tony=C2-Renshawhttp://forums.matron
ics.com=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?E
uropa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0Ahref="http:/
/forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.ma
tronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>=0A =0A
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://=======
================ =0A=0A =0Ahttp://www.ma
troni==================== =0A=0A
=============
Message 20
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| Subject: | Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? |
Hi Group
Has anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa Mono?
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419752#419752
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? |
Hey Ron, I'll be the first one...........what's TP?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419754#419754
Message 22
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| Subject: | Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? |
In a bag WITH the other offensive materials.... Sorry couldn't resist
Regards
craig
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