---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/04/14: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:32 AM - Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? (rparigoris) 2. 01:35 AM - Re: EASA noise certificate (kees de bussy) 3. 02:44 AM - Re: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? (craig) 4. 05:03 AM - Re: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? (Robert Borger) 5. 06:26 AM - Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? (rampil) 6. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? (PETER MORGANS) 7. 07:41 AM - Re: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? (Fred Klein) 8. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? (Bob Harrison) 9. 09:09 AM - Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? (rparigoris) 10. 10:10 AM - Re: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? (David Watts) 11. 11:04 AM - instrument module wider than firewall - what to do? (Rowland Carson) 12. 01:08 PM - Re: instrument module wider than firewall - what to do? (Fred Klein) 13. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? (Fred Klein) 14. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? (David Watts) 15. 02:24 PM - TPDD and request for mod assistance. (Tony Renshaw) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:32:04 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? From: "rparigoris" Hi Spcialeffects TP is Toilet Paper. Single ply is longer than two ply. Best have a few feet as a tail to help unroll. I have a XS Mono. I could swap out the 914 for a 130 hp 915 with an inverted oil system: http://sportair.aero/12-epapower/epapower/ then put a temporary vertical pole on the wing slightly angled forward (so it won't hit anything when you release), put the TP on it with a careful 2 feet rolled up and taped in place, then when at altitude roll inverted and pull a negative G. This is half TIC (Tongue in Cheek), but I have a 4 foot RC flying wing with a very powerful gear reduced electric motor and huge prop that I actually do this with using a lolly pop and parachute. It climbs a lot quicker than my Europa with a 914 and Airmaster ever will, so in half a minute even with the draggy cargo it's at 1500 feet. It's a pusher and once in a while it falls off when the motor is running and jams things up, but the ESC (Electronic Speed Controller) protects things, just a 45 degree angle glide back down with just enough airspeed to flair. No joking, make that less joking to no joking at all: Angle a tube off the outrigger to hold a roll, then when at altitude when gear is retracted you pull some Gs and get it to fall off? Leave gear down, have the roll tucked away in the wheel well where it is not going to foul things up if you forgot about it and through the gear lever slot have a release? Could be a rubber band holding in place? Perhaps have a autonomous wireless mini RC servo release mechanism that easily clamps to the tailwheel spring? Or outrigger? Hmm, wonder if you put a temporary pole that clamped onto the outrigger perpendicular to airflow, if you side slipped you could get the roll to fall off? Could be kinda fun, when you have a cross wind, put it on the upwind outrigger, fly with a little side-slip, then side-slip the other way when you want to release? Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419759#419759 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:35:14 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: EASA noise certificate From: "kees de bussy" Hi Bob and David, Thanks for your input. Unfortunately it is not that simple. I do have the Europa Club noise certificate but that is not accepted by the Dutch authorities. The only thing which is valid is a EASA noise certificate ( issued by a EASA certified ANMI, Aircraft Noise Measurement Institute) of an aircraft which is equipped with exact the same engine, propeller and exhaust. In all other cases we have to go through a time consuming procedure where aircraft performance and noise is measured by a certified organisation. We are lucky, in so far, that there is such an institute in the Netherlands which can do all the measurements at reasonable costs. But of course if I can find a comparable Europa with EASA noise certificate it will save time and money. Anyway, thanks again for trying to help me out but probably we have to do it via the long way. Regards, Kees de Bussy Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419760#419760 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:44:13 AM PST US From: "craig" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? TP = toilet paper Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of spcialeffects Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 3:32 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? Hey Ron, I'll be the first one...........what's TP? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419754#419754 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? From: Robert Borger Toilet Paper. You go up about 8000 ft, open a roll of TP, throw it out the window so that it streams, then chase it down to see how many times you can cut the streamer before it gets too low to be safe. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Mar 3, 2014, at 11:32 PM, spcialeffects wrote: Hey Ron, I'll be the first one...........what's TP? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:59 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? From: "rampil" The answer to the question is actually simple.... Take the cabin doors off before flight. Europa have been demonstrated to fly well without doors in multiple incidents in the dim past ;) Eject TP upward and outboard to avoid empennage. Hey Ron, does the question imply that you are nearing project completion? -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419766#419766 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:22 AM PST US From: PETER MORGANS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? And keep a little bit back for your own use when you land!=0ASorry - couldn 't resist.=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Robert Borger =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, 4 Mar ch 2014, 13:00=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Anyone figured how to drop T orger =0A=0AToilet Paper.- =0A=0AYou go up about 8000 f t, open a roll of TP, throw it out the window so that it streams, then chas e it down to see how many times you can cut the streamer before it gets too low to be safe.=0A=0ABlue skies & tailwinds,=0ABob Borger=0AEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).=0ALittle Toot Sport Biplane, Lycom ing Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP=0A3705 Lynchburg Dr.=0ACorinth, TX- 76208-53 31=0ACel: 817-992-1117=0Arlborger@mac.com=0A=0AOn Mar 3, 2014, at 11:32 PM, spcialeffects wrote:=0A=0A--> Europa-List message posted by: "spcialeffects" =0A=0AHey Ron, I'll be th - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ==== ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:30 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? On Mar 4, 2014, at 12:31 AM, rparigoris wrote: > No joking, make that less joking to no joking at all: =85but what are you smoking? do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:57 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? Hi! All, I have no information ref: flying with doors off the Europa for the purposes which you have in mind but I was always told by the factory that there should be a maximum air speed limit applied of 110 knots when doing so for photographic purposes. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rampil Sent: 04 March 2014 14:20 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? The answer to the question is actually simple.... Take the cabin doors off before flight. Europa have been demonstrated to fly well without doors in multiple incidents in the dim past ;) Eject TP upward and outboard to avoid empennage. Hey Ron, does the question imply that you are nearing project completion? -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419766#419766 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:47 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? From: "rparigoris" Hey Ira Hoping to have airframe complete this summer (most fill complete), fuel system complete, instrument panel populated. Then motor hang/wire things (wiring is half way complete), cowl/prop, glass and paint. Flap pushrod conversion to push-pull cable that will allow switching between both long and short wings is complete. Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419775#419775 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:21 AM PST US From: David Watts Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? I have in fact flown with the door off my Europa for a photographic sortie, and you are right, there is a 110 knot airspeed limit that Europa advise. I have to say the whole experience was horrible and I will not be repeating it. There was a lot of vibration and buffeting although for some unknown reason, when we were on final approach I put my hand up on the windscreen surround where the door would normally shut, and it suddenly all went peaceful (maybe there is an airflow problem that can be overcome in a similar way that car sunroofs often have a pop up deflector that activates when the roof is open). I won't be repeating the exercise to test the idea though. Dave Watts G-BXDY (hoping that the runway will dry out one day. At least we are not now actually underwater). > On 4 Mar 2014, at 16:23, "Bob Harrison" wrote: > > > Hi! All, > I have no information ref: flying with doors off the Europa for the purposes > which you have in mind but I was always told by the factory that there > should be a maximum air speed limit applied of 110 knots when doing so for > photographic purposes. > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rampil > Sent: 04 March 2014 14:20 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? > > > The answer to the question is actually simple.... > > Take the cabin doors off before flight. Europa have been demonstrated to > fly well without doors in multiple incidents in the dim past ;) > > Eject TP upward and outboard to avoid empennage. > > > Hey Ron, does the question imply that you are nearing project completion? > > -------- > Ira N224XS > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419766#419766 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:08 AM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: instrument module wider than firewall - what to do? I was just offering up the instrument module to the firewall (before the top gets bonded on) and the flanges of the IM protrude beyond the edges of the firewall. The way things are stored at present prevents me from easily checking if the IM will fit within the shape of the upper fuselage at the firewall. If it doesn't, it appears that the flanges of the IM will have to be cut back so much that there will scarcely be enough meat left for the fixings. Has anyone else had this problem? Have I been issued with a mis-matched instrument module & fuselage moulding? Any observations welcome. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:54 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: instrument module wider than firewall - what to do? On Mar 4, 2014, at 11:03 AM, Rowland Carson wrote: > Have I been issued with a mis-matched instrument module & fuselage moulding? Rowland=85I would tend to doubt that; however, I found that the exterior flange, when trimmed to allow the insertion of the instrument panel module into the fuselage, was insufficient. Consequently, I mounted an inside flange which allowed me to use shock mount bolts which provide a 1/2=94 space between module and firewall, useful for both vibration isolation as well as providing a means of cooling air circulation=85a couple of the shock mounts are visible thru my initial cut-out for my instrument sub-panels=85Good luck, Fred ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:04 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? On Mar 4, 2014, at 10:09 AM, David Watts wrote: > I have in fact flown with the door off my Europa for a photographic sortie, David=85was this done with only ONE door off, or both doors off? > for some unknown reason, when we were on final approach I put my hand up on the windscreen surround where the door would normally shut, and it suddenly all went peaceful (maybe there is an airflow problem that can be overcome in a similar way that car sunroofs often have a pop up deflector that activates when the roof is open). =85so with some sort of =93pop up deflector=94, might we be talking about open cockpit ops, leather jackets, and silk scarves to boot in the good ol=92 summertime? F. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:33 PM PST US From: "David Watts" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? With just the passenger door off. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein Sent: 04 March 2014 13:53 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Anyone figured how to drop TP from a Europa mono? On Mar 4, 2014, at 10:09 AM, David Watts wrote: I have in fact flown with the door off my Europa for a photographic sortie, David.was this done with only ONE door off, or both doors off? for some unknown reason, when we were on final approach I put my hand up on the windscreen surround where the door would normally shut, and it suddenly all went peaceful (maybe there is an airflow problem that can be overcome in a similar way that car sunroofs often have a pop up deflector that activates when the roof is open). .so with some sort of "pop up deflector", might we be talking about open cockpit ops, leather jackets, and silk scarves to boot in the good ol' summertime? F. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:45 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: TPDD and request for mod assistance. Hi, This is my TPDD. You can=92t really tell from the photo but the top of the tunnel has been turned into a hinged lid to the underside, where fuel selectors, pumps, etc are to be located. I have an Andair Gascolator on a shelf directly above this reinforced access, which is why it exists. HOWEVER, I could use it as a TPDD. I am using a clear marine deck access fitting with a plastic thread, however I have thought about modifying the lid such that I can screw it out, or in, and in that respect if the shelf was placed accordingly, I=92d be able to remove it inflight for photography etc. I=92ve actually ditched that option to be honest though, with things like CO2 entering being my biggest concern. Still, if you were desperate for a TPDD, this would work fine. :-) P.S. I am challenged to replace the original strength with my mod. Immediately under the throttle slot I have a bulkhead, and it is misleading in the photo how far down the sides I have cut. At the back the side cuts run into the top, and at the front its about 150 mm deep, so the sidewalls of the tunnel are basically intact. I anticipate that the majority of the load is on the vertical faces of the tunnel, engine etc. however the fuselage also is a contributor to the entire load carrying of the engine. I think the flat top of the tunnel is more like the top flange of an I beam, pertinent in the load created with a G manoeuvre by the engine. Without that flange I am struggling to see if I can get the outcome I want, so if anyone has an idea I=92d appreciate it. Still, the wide arse mods and the new profile has a negligible top web to this part of the tunnel, and if I don=92t adopt those, which I don=92t plan on doing, I have more side material in a vertical orientation than they do already, to compensate for the absence of the top web. Still, I plan on doing something, but what is the question. TPDD = Toilet Paper Deployment Device Tony Renshaw Sydney Aussie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.