---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/21/14: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:10 AM - Re: Fw: Re: XS Fuel Tank (Michel AUVRAY) 2. 02:15 AM - Re: Fw: Re: XS Fuel Tank (bill) 3. 02:44 AM - Re: XS Fuel Tank (Tim Ward) 4. 04:54 AM - Re: recommended oil change intervals, exclusive MOGAS (h&jeuropa) 5. 06:35 AM - Re: Firewall pass throughs - fuel lines (William Daniell) 6. 07:07 AM - Damping grease definitive answer (William Daniell) 7. 08:05 AM - Re: Firewall pass throughs - fuel lines (Fred Klein) 8. 08:07 AM - Re: XS Fuel Tank (Fred Klein) 9. 08:19 AM - Re: Damping grease definitive answer (Brian Davies) 10. 10:44 AM - Re: Firewall pass throughs - fuel lines (David Joyce) 11. 11:13 AM - Looking to purchase a Europa Mono Wheel (John Archer) 12. 12:01 PM - Fw: Europa Mono Classic for sale (Frank Mycroft) 13. 12:14 PM - Re: Nose wheel grease (Bud Yerly) 14. 01:48 PM - Re: XS Fuel Tank (pestar) 15. 02:20 PM - Warbirds over Wanaka (Chris Cameron) 16. 03:54 PM - Re: Warbirds over Wanaka (Tim Ward) 17. 04:01 PM - Re: Firewall pass throughs - fuel lines (Fred Klein) 18. 04:26 PM - Re: Firewall pass throughs - fuel lines (David Joyce) 19. 04:50 PM - Wanaka (Gavin Lee) 20. 05:44 PM - Re: Warbirds over Wanaka (Tony Renshaw) 21. 06:11 PM - Re: XS Fuel Tank (Kevin Klinefelter) 22. 06:14 PM - Re: Warbirds over Wanaka (pestar) 23. 06:18 PM - Re: Wanaka (Kevin Klinefelter) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:23 AM PST US From: Michel AUVRAY Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Europa-List: XS Fuel Tank Hi Sue and Bill, It is nice job What is the price? Michel AUVRAY Builder 145 550 hours flight Le 21/03/2014 04:45, bill a crit : > > > Sue and Bill Sisley > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS Fuel Tank > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 16:35:46 +1300 > From: bill > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > > A very happy day as ZK CHV is now back in the air complete with a new > aluminium fuel tank. > > After much deliberation I settled on 2mm aluminium to a design that > eliminated all the complexity of the plastic tank but increased the > volume to 85Ltrs. The structure was formed by a continuous fold from > the rear bottom and over the top to front bottom. The sides and bottom > are one fold each side and one piece tunnel all flange welded for > strength with cut-outs and inserts to clear controls. > I made the tank narrower that the previous to allow it to drop > straight in without having to stretch the fuselage and 100mm taller > for extra volume. No internal baffles were required as the tunnel and > cut-outs provided sufficient rigidity. > The outlets and breather are all AN fitings with provision for > separate water drains and fuel outlets left and right and the fuel > return back to the inside of the starboard tunnel. > > The tank sits free with the bottom rear of the tank sitting on a > flange off the rear wall of the cockpit module and the front sitting > on a full width flange off the front wall (seat-back) of the module. A > rubber pad is glued to the tank at all contact points preventing > chaffing. The original spacers are retained to prevent fore-aft movement. > > I raised the sides of the cockpit module to just level of the door > sills and continued the same angle for the head rests so they are now > slightly further to the rear. > > Fuel is measured with a capacitance probe calibrated in 1 litre > increments. > Reserve fuel on the starboard side is 14 litres. > > Some pics attached. > > Sue and Bill Sisley > On 12/11/2013 10:38 p.m., nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk wrote: >> Hi Bill >> If you are serious about constructing your own alloy tank, here are >> some of the issues that I considered carefully before embarking on >> what turned out to be a lengthy project. >> >> Capacity >> If you want to maximise capacity, the tank shape will be complex to >> take advantage of the available space. I went "full span" and put >> seamless tubes through to accommodate pitch control and rudder >> cables. Since you have sawed off the top of your cockpit module, >> there is now room to extend the tank vertically up by about 100 mm >> (to the door sill), this should give you an extra 18 litres. Restore >> the strength of the CM joint using standard "good composite practice". >> This should not compromise the seating or baggage-bay access. >> >> Mounting >> The tank cannot sit on the bottom of the fuselage but should be >> clear. Incorporate supporting brackets to spread the (considerable) >> load to the front and rear of the cockpit module (seat back). Design >> in some method of allowing the tank to expand and contract - sitting >> it on a rubber or cork mat for instance. >> >> Breathing >> Use considerably larger breathers than were originally fitted - to >> prevent pressure build-up and blow-back while filling. If possible >> use two, one on each side of the tank. I routed mine up and then >> down, venting under the fuselage, to prevent siphoning or fuel >> dumping in the event that the aircraft ever flipped over. >> >> Fuel Return >> I pondered the ideal configuration for the fuel return line >> (discussed ad-nauseum since!) and opted to return it to the top of >> the tank. A vertical cross-drilled pipe inside the tank allows the >> fuel to dribble down without vapourising or having to contend with >> the back-pressure of a full tank. >> >> Fuel Level Monitoring. >> There are now far more options available to accurately monitor the >> fuel contents. Capacitance level sensors work well but are sensitive >> to fuel type, if you only ever use one type of fuel, this won't be an >> issue. They can be used with a "lookup table" to linearize the >> readout giving an accurate indication of fuel contents. Float switch >> stacks are the next option, (as supplied by Europa) they are reliable >> and not fuel sensitive but give a non-linear indication. I opted for >> the former but included four optical sensors to give an independent >> indication of fuel contents at "Full", 2/3 1/3 and "Reserve" and >> chose to delete the standard "stand pipe", which, without any method >> of isolating, I considered a safety risk. >> >> Maintenance >> Now is a good time to include an inspection hatch. Machine a large >> diameter "weld-in" ring with matching cover, tapped for at least six >> bolts. Include a groove to accept a Viton "O" ring to seal the joint. >> This cover also makes an ideal mount for the fuel level sender. >> >> Good luck and keep us informed of progress. >> >> Nigel >> >> >> On 11/11/2013 22:43, bill wrote: >>> Thank you Nigel, >>> >>> Having got the top off now I can see that the leak is at the shelf >>> on the front of the tank where it sits on the mount. It appears that >>> the fibreglass had bonded to the tank and with movement caused a >>> fracture due to the stress. Having looked at the tank now which is >>> very deformed and reducing capacity, I am sure a "metal" one will be >>> much superior. Fortunately there are some very good craftsman around >>> here so fabrication will not be a problem. Not sure we will get to >>> the same volume as you have but will certainly look for more than I >>> have now. Will send some pic,s when all done. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Sue and Bill Sisley >>> On 12/11/2013 8:55 a.m., nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk wrote: >>>> Hello Bill, >>>> >>>> I'm a bit late getting back on this one but as others have said, I >>>> built a tank out of 5251 quarter-hard magnesium alloy. >>>> It weighs 7850 grams and has a capacity of 110 litres. >>>> I incorporated internal baffles, and breathers with proper AN >>>> fittings to accommodate alloy pipework. It is also fitted with a >>>> full length capacitive probe and four solid-state optical fuel >>>> level sensors. >>>> http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=28719 >>>> >>>> The only advice I would offer is: allow yourself a long time to make and perfect your cardboard templates - the fuselage is partly conical in section so the development will be an interesting shape. Choose a welder based on his ability to weld alloy and don't fall into the trap I did of restricting yourself to a CAA approved welder whose self-belief exceeded his ability! >>>> >>>> Nigel >>>> >>>> >>>> On 08/11/2013 21:37, bill wrote: >>>>> >>>>> After 1100hrs I have suffered a failed fuel tank on my XS Mono. >>>>> Not sure exactly where the fault is other than it is high up on >>>>> the tank. Will know more when I get it out. >>>>> >>>>> My question to the forum is, has anyone tried fabricating a metal >>>>> (aluminium) tank rather than using the Polyethylene plastic one as >>>>> supplied with the kit. If so, were you able to obtain the same >>>>> volume and any other advice you may be able to offer. >>>>> >>>>> Many thanks >>>>> XS Mono >>>>> Kit 456 >>>>> 914 and Airmaster >>>>> 1100hrs >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sue and Bill Sisley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> * >>> >>> * >>> >>> * >> >> * >> >> * > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:15:35 AM PST US From: bill Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Europa-List: XS Fuel Tank The cost for the fabrication of the tank was $1230 NZ . Finished weight about a Kilo more than the plastic tank. Rgds Sue and Bill Sisley On 21/03/2014 8:08 p.m., Michel AUVRAY wrote: > Hi Sue and Bill, > It is nice job > What is the price? > > Michel AUVRAY > Builder 145 > 550 hours flight > > > Le 21/03/2014 04:45, bill a crit : >> >> >> Sue and Bill Sisley >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS Fuel Tank >> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 16:35:46 +1300 >> From: bill >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> >> >> >> A very happy day as ZK CHV is now back in the air complete with a new >> aluminium fuel tank. >> >> After much deliberation I settled on 2mm aluminium to a design that >> eliminated all the complexity of the plastic tank but increased the >> volume to 85Ltrs. The structure was formed by a continuous fold from >> the rear bottom and over the top to front bottom. The sides and >> bottom are one fold each side and one piece tunnel all flange >> welded for strength with cut-outs and inserts to clear controls. >> I made the tank narrower that the previous to allow it to drop >> straight in without having to stretch the fuselage and 100mm taller >> for extra volume. No internal baffles were required as the tunnel and >> cut-outs provided sufficient rigidity. >> The outlets and breather are all AN fitings with provision for >> separate water drains and fuel outlets left and right and the fuel >> return back to the inside of the starboard tunnel. >> >> The tank sits free with the bottom rear of the tank sitting on a >> flange off the rear wall of the cockpit module and the front sitting >> on a full width flange off the front wall (seat-back) of the module. >> A rubber pad is glued to the tank at all contact points preventing >> chaffing. The original spacers are retained to prevent fore-aft movement. >> >> I raised the sides of the cockpit module to just level of the door >> sills and continued the same angle for the head rests so they are now >> slightly further to the rear. >> >> Fuel is measured with a capacitance probe calibrated in 1 litre >> increments. >> Reserve fuel on the starboard side is 14 litres. >> >> Some pics attached. >> >> Sue and Bill Sisley >> On 12/11/2013 10:38 p.m., nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk wrote: >>> Hi Bill >>> If you are serious about constructing your own alloy tank, here are >>> some of the issues that I considered carefully before embarking on >>> what turned out to be a lengthy project. >>> >>> Capacity >>> If you want to maximise capacity, the tank shape will be complex to >>> take advantage of the available space. I went "full span" and put >>> seamless tubes through to accommodate pitch control and rudder >>> cables. Since you have sawed off the top of your cockpit module, >>> there is now room to extend the tank vertically up by about 100 mm >>> (to the door sill), this should give you an extra 18 litres. Restore >>> the strength of the CM joint using standard "good composite practice". >>> This should not compromise the seating or baggage-bay access. >>> >>> Mounting >>> The tank cannot sit on the bottom of the fuselage but should be >>> clear. Incorporate supporting brackets to spread the (considerable) >>> load to the front and rear of the cockpit module (seat back). Design >>> in some method of allowing the tank to expand and contract - sitting >>> it on a rubber or cork mat for instance. >>> >>> Breathing >>> Use considerably larger breathers than were originally fitted - to >>> prevent pressure build-up and blow-back while filling. If possible >>> use two, one on each side of the tank. I routed mine up and then >>> down, venting under the fuselage, to prevent siphoning or fuel >>> dumping in the event that the aircraft ever flipped over. >>> >>> Fuel Return >>> I pondered the ideal configuration for the fuel return line >>> (discussed ad-nauseum since!) and opted to return it to the top of >>> the tank. A vertical cross-drilled pipe inside the tank allows the >>> fuel to dribble down without vapourising or having to contend with >>> the back-pressure of a full tank. >>> >>> Fuel Level Monitoring. >>> There are now far more options available to accurately monitor the >>> fuel contents. Capacitance level sensors work well but are sensitive >>> to fuel type, if you only ever use one type of fuel, this won't be >>> an issue. They can be used with a "lookup table" to linearize the >>> readout giving an accurate indication of fuel contents. Float switch >>> stacks are the next option, (as supplied by Europa) they are >>> reliable and not fuel sensitive but give a non-linear indication. I >>> opted for the former but included four optical sensors to give an >>> independent indication of fuel contents at "Full", 2/3 1/3 and >>> "Reserve" and chose to delete the standard "stand pipe", which, >>> without any method of isolating, I considered a safety risk. >>> >>> Maintenance >>> Now is a good time to include an inspection hatch. Machine a large >>> diameter "weld-in" ring with matching cover, tapped for at least six >>> bolts. Include a groove to accept a Viton "O" ring to seal the >>> joint. This cover also makes an ideal mount for the fuel level sender. >>> >>> Good luck and keep us informed of progress. >>> >>> Nigel >>> >>> >>> On 11/11/2013 22:43, bill wrote: >>>> Thank you Nigel, >>>> >>>> Having got the top off now I can see that the leak is at the shelf >>>> on the front of the tank where it sits on the mount. It appears >>>> that the fibreglass had bonded to the tank and with movement caused >>>> a fracture due to the stress. Having looked at the tank now which >>>> is very deformed and reducing capacity, I am sure a "metal" one >>>> will be much superior. Fortunately there are some very good >>>> craftsman around here so fabrication will not be a problem. Not >>>> sure we will get to the same volume as you have but will certainly >>>> look for more than I have now. Will send some pic,s when all done. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Sue and Bill Sisley >>>> On 12/11/2013 8:55 a.m., nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk wrote: >>>>> Hello Bill, >>>>> >>>>> I'm a bit late getting back on this one but as others have said, I >>>>> built a tank out of 5251 quarter-hard magnesium alloy. >>>>> It weighs 7850 grams and has a capacity of 110 litres. >>>>> I incorporated internal baffles, and breathers with proper AN >>>>> fittings to accommodate alloy pipework. It is also fitted with a >>>>> full length capacitive probe and four solid-state optical fuel >>>>> level sensors. >>>>> http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=28719 >>>>> >>>>> The only advice I would offer is: allow yourself a long time to make and perfect your cardboard templates - the fuselage is partly conical in section so the development will be an interesting shape. Choose a welder based on his ability to weld alloy and don't fall into the trap I did of restricting yourself to a CAA approved welder whose self-belief exceeded his ability! >>>>> >>>>> Nigel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 08/11/2013 21:37, bill wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> After 1100hrs I have suffered a failed fuel tank on my XS Mono. >>>>>> Not sure exactly where the fault is other than it is high up on >>>>>> the tank. Will know more when I get it out. >>>>>> >>>>>> My question to the forum is, has anyone tried fabricating a metal >>>>>> (aluminium) tank rather than using the Polyethylene plastic one >>>>>> as supplied with the kit. If so, were you able to obtain the same >>>>>> volume and any other advice you may be able to offer. >>>>>> >>>>>> Many thanks >>>>>> XS Mono >>>>>> Kit 456 >>>>>> 914 and Airmaster >>>>>> 1100hrs >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sue and Bill Sisley >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> * >>>>> >>>>> * >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> * >>> >>> * >>> >>> * >> >> >> > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:44:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS Fuel Tank From: Tim Ward Well done Bill, great alternative and well thought out. Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t@xtra.co.nz Ph 64 3 3515166 Mob 0210640221 > On 21/03/2014, at 10:14 pm, bill wrote: > > The cost for the fabrication of the tank was $1230 NZ . > > Finished weight about a Kilo more than the plastic tank. > > Rgds > Sue and Bill Sisley >> On 21/03/2014 8:08 p.m., Michel AUVRAY wrote: >> Hi Sue and Bill, >> It is nice job >> What is the price? >> >> Michel AUVRAY >> Builder 145 >> 550 hours flight >> >> >> Le 21/03/2014 04:45, bill a =C3=A9crit : >>> >>> >>> Sue and Bill Sisley >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS Fuel Tank >>> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 16:35:46 +1300 >>> From: bill >>> Reply-To: bill.sue@orcon.net.nz >>> To: europa-list@matronics.com >>> >>> A very happy day as ZK CHV is now back in the air complete with a new al uminium fuel tank. >>> >>> After much deliberation I settled on 2mm aluminium to a design that elim inated all the complexity of the plastic tank but increased the volume to 85 Ltrs. The structure was formed by a continuous fold from the rear bottom and over the top to front bottom. The sides and bottom are one fold each side a nd one piece tunnel all flange welded for strength with cut-outs and insert s to clear controls. >>> I made the tank narrower that the previous to allow it to drop straight i n without having to stretch the fuselage and 100mm taller for extra volume. N o internal baffles were required as the tunnel and cut-outs provided suffic ient rigidity. >>> The outlets and breather are all AN fitings with provision for separate w ater drains and fuel outlets left and right and the fuel return back to the i nside of the starboard tunnel. >>> >>> The tank sits free with the bottom rear of the tank sitting on a flange o ff the rear wall of the cockpit module and the front sitting on a full width flange off the front wall (seat-back) of the module. A rubber pad is glued t o the tank at all contact points preventing chaffing. The original spacers a re retained to prevent fore-aft movement. >>> >>> I raised the sides of the cockpit module to just level of the door sills and continued the same angle for the head rests so they are now slightly fu rther to the rear. >>> >>> Fuel is measured with a capacitance probe calibrated in 1 litre incremen ts. >>> Reserve fuel on the starboard side is 14 litres. >>> >>> Some pics attached. >>> >>> Sue and Bill Sisley >>>> On 12/11/2013 10:38 p.m., nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk wrote: >>>> Hi Bill >>>> If you are serious about constructing your own alloy tank, here are som e of the issues that I considered carefully before embarking on what turned o ut to be a lengthy project. >>>> >>>> Capacity >>>> If you want to maximise capacity, the tank shape will be complex to tak e advantage of the available space. I went "full span" and put seamless tub es through to accommodate pitch control and rudder cables. Since you have sa wed off the top of your cockpit module, there is now room to extend the tank vertically up by about 100 mm (to the door sill), this should give you an e xtra 18 litres. Restore the strength of the CM joint using standard "good co mposite practice". >>>> This should not compromise the seating or baggage-bay access. >>>> >>>> Mounting >>>> The tank cannot sit on the bottom of the fuselage but should be clear. I ncorporate supporting brackets to spread the (considerable) load to the fron t and rear of the cockpit module (seat back). Design in some method of allow ing the tank to expand and contract - sitting it on a rubber or cork mat for instance. >>>> >>>> Breathing >>>> Use considerably larger breathers than were originally fitted - to prev ent pressure build-up and blow-back while filling. If possible use two, one o n each side of the tank. I routed mine up and then down, venting under the f uselage, to prevent siphoning or fuel dumping in the event that the aircraft ever flipped over. >>>> >>>> Fuel Return >>>> I pondered the ideal configuration for the fuel return line (discussed a d-nauseum since!) and opted to return it to the top of the tank. A vertical cross-drilled pipe inside the tank allows the fuel to dribble down without v apourising or having to contend with the back-pressure of a full tank. >>>> >>>> Fuel Level Monitoring. >>>> There are now far more options available to accurately monitor the fuel contents. Capacitance level sensors work well but are sensitive to fuel typ e, if you only ever use one type of fuel, this won't be an issue. They can b e used with a "lookup table" to linearize the readout giving an accurate ind ication of fuel contents. Float switch stacks are the next option, (as suppl ied by Europa) they are reliable and not fuel sensitive but give a non-linea r indication. I opted for the former but included four optical sensors to gi ve an independent indication of fuel contents at "Full", 2/3 1/3 and "Reserv e" and chose to delete the standard "stand pipe", which, without any method o f isolating, I considered a safety risk. >>>> >>>> Maintenance >>>> Now is a good time to include an inspection hatch. Machine a large diam eter "weld-in" ring with matching cover, tapped for at least six bolts. Incl ude a groove to accept a Viton "O" ring to seal the joint. This cover also m akes an ideal mount for the fuel level sender. >>>> >>>> Good luck and keep us informed of progress. >>>> >>>> Nigel >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 11/11/2013 22:43, bill wrote: >>>>> Thank you Nigel, >>>>> >>>>> Having got the top off now I can see that the leak is at the shelf on t he front of the tank where it sits on the mount. It appears that the fibregl ass had bonded to the tank and with movement caused a fracture due to the st ress. Having looked at the tank now which is very deformed and reducing capa city, I am sure a "metal" one will be much superior. Fortunately there are s ome very good craftsman around here so fabrication will not be a problem. No t sure we will get to the same volume as you have but will certainly look fo r more than I have now. Will send some pic,s when all done. >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> Sue and Bill Sisley >>>>>> On 12/11/2013 8:55 a.m., nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk wrote: >>>>>> Hello Bill, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm a bit late getting back on this one but as others have said, I bu ilt a tank out of 5251 quarter-hard magnesium alloy. >>>>>> It weighs 7850 grams and has a capacity of 110 litres. >>>>>> I incorporated internal baffles, and breathers with proper AN fitting s to accommodate alloy pipework. It is also fitted with a full length capaci tive probe and four solid-state optical fuel level sensors. >>>>>> http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=28719 >>>>>> >>>>>> The only advice I would offer is: allow yourself a long time to make a nd perfect your cardboard templates - the fuselage is partly conical in sect ion so the development will be an interesting shape. Choose a welder based o n his ability to weld alloy and don't fall into the trap I did of restrictin g yourself to a CAA approved welder whose self-belief exceeded his ability! >>>>>> >>>>>> Nigel >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 08/11/2013 21:37, bill wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> After 1100hrs I have suffered a failed fuel tank on my XS Mono. Not s ure exactly where the fault is other than it is high up on the tank. Will kn ow more when I get it out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My question to the forum is, has anyone tried fabricating a metal (a luminium) tank rather than using the Polyethylene plastic one as supplied wi th the kit. If so, were you able to obtain the same volume and any other adv ice you may be able to offer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Many thanks >>>>>>> XS Mono >>>>>>> Kit 456 >>>>>>> 914 and Airmaster >>>>>>> 1100hrs >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sue and Bill Sisley > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:37 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: recommended oil change intervals, exclusive MOGAS From: "h&jeuropa" Hi Ira, We use Blackstone Labs and they have some accumulated data on Rotax engines. They provide a narrative based on their experience. So we watch trends and read their suggestions. Jim & Heather Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420711#420711 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall pass throughs - fuel lines From: William Daniell Fred thanks I guess I was hoping for a straight connection without the fittings...but that looks really neat. Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 8:10 PM, Fred Klein wrote: > > On Mar 19, 2014, at 11:09 AM, William Daniell > wrote: > > What about the fuel lines? How have the group passed these through the > firewall? > > > Will...I too used automobile injection hose aft...here's how I penetrated the > firewall and transitioned to SS jacketed flex hose forward...Good luck, Fred > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:05 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Damping grease definitive answer From: William Daniell here is the definitive answer for the damping grease from a very helpful chap called Tom Madden Hi Will, I just heard back from Nye's Technical Support Department. They stated that the 767A is only good down to 0 degrees c. They are recommending what is being used on Boeing's landing gear, Rheolube 374A. Attached is the Technical Data Sheet and MSDS for your review. The price is as follows. 50 gram tube: $34.95 100 gram tube: $49.95 500 gram jar: $89.95 There is no minimum order. Lead time is 5 to 10 business days for the tubes. I currently have the 500 gram jars in stock and can ship when ordered. We accept Visa/MasterCard. If you have any other questions before ordering, please feel free to contact me. I look forward to doing business. Regards, Tom Madden TAI Lubricants PO Box 1579 Hockessin, DE 19707 USA (302) 326-0200 (302) 326-0400 fax nyoil@aol.com www.lubekits.com William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:12 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall pass throughs - fuel lines On Mar 21, 2014, at 6:32 AM, William Daniell wrote: > I guess I was hoping for a straight connection without the fittings...but that looks really neat. Will=85bear in mind that mine is for a non-Rotax engine installation=85the 90 degree fittings worked best. Note that the fittings are aluminum Aeroquip=85I=92ve received a comment from one lister cautioning me against using aluminum fittings FWF on all fuel and oil lines, recommending brass (at the least) and preferably steel. Such a practice was news to me=85additional comments welcome and invited. Fred ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:23 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS Fuel Tank On Mar 20, 2014, at 8:45 PM, bill wrote: > A very happy day as ZK CHV is now back in the air complete with a new aluminium fuel tank. Bill...Wow=85well thought out and outstanding workmanship=85I=92d love to see some additional in-process photos of the installation in the airframe. Fred ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:40 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Damping grease definitive answer Will, I think there has been a misunderstanding here. The Rheolube 374A is, I think, a high spec. multipurpose lubricating grease, not a damping grease. Nye do a damping grease that will work at lower temps if you are worried about that aspect. The 868 range or 774 range will give you this characteristic. Regards Brian Davies From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 21 March 2014 14:06 Subject: Europa-List: Damping grease definitive answer here is the definitive answer for the damping grease from a very helpful chap called Tom Madden Hi Will, I just heard back from Nye's Technical Support Department. They stated that the 767A is only good down to 0 degrees c. They are recommending what is being used on Boeing's landing gear, Rheolube 374A. Attached is the Technical Data Sheet and MSDS for your review. The price is as follows. 50 gram tube: $34.95 100 gram tube: $49.95 500 gram jar: $89.95 There is no minimum order. Lead time is 5 to 10 business days for the tubes. I currently have the 500 gram jars in stock and can ship when ordered. We accept Visa/MasterCard. If you have any other questions before ordering, please feel free to contact me. I look forward to doing business. Regards, Tom Madden TAI Lubricants PO Box 1579 Hockessin, DE 19707 USA (302) 326-0200 (302) 326-0400 fax nyoil@aol.com www.lubekits.com William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:35 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall pass throughs - fuel lines Fred, Any sort of fitting adds weight and leakage possibility. Going straight through the firewall with the hoses immobilised on both sides, with the passage sealed by silicone adds nil weight ,no leakage possibility and works in the sense that having already replaced hoses twice on a five year life basis, the pipes showed no sign of chafing wear. Why complicate things? Regards, David. On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 08:01:29 -0700 Fred Klein wrote: > > On Mar 21, 2014, at 6:32 AM, William Daniell > wrote: > >> I guess I was hoping for a straight connection without >>the fittings...but that looks really neat. > > Willbear in mind that mine is for a non-Rotax engine >installationthe 90 degree fittings worked best. > > Note that the fittings are aluminum AeroquipIve >received a comment from one lister cautioning me against >using aluminum fittings FWF on all fuel and oil lines, >recommending brass (at the least) and preferably steel. > > Such a practice was news to meadditional comments >welcome and invited. > >Fred ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:28 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Looking to purchase a Europa Mono Wheel From: John Archer <77alembert@gmail.com> Hello, I am looking for a Europa Mono Wheel in good condition. It must be registered in France as importing kits built outside the country is not allowed. I look forward to hearing from you. John Archer ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:24 PM PST US From: "Frank Mycroft" Subject: Europa-List: Fw: Europa Mono Classic for sale Subject: Europa Mono Classic for sale I am selling my Europa Mono Classic If you would like to have particulars please e-mail me. It is hangared in Devon and has a damaged propeller and is not presently flyable although the engine can be run using an old propellor with the damaged part cut off. Frank Mycroft ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:18 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nose wheel grease Christoph, I have used the heavy and medium Nye grease 868VH down to 868 as well as the 774. In very cold climates I would use the 868 or 774L or light grease. I also have put a smear of Slipit on the aluminum (a woodworkers product) and if used sparingly, they all work. So does a bit of patience and just a good clean machined flat on the gear leg. Hangup of the gear as it turns is due to the lack of a straight pivot pin on the fork. If it leans forward it makes taxiing straight a jog to the left and right rather than smooth centerline tracking. A touch of Nye or slipit on the metal gear leg works fine. I warn my customers never to use the grease dzerk on the front of the gear. Most folks are heavy handed and blow grease out the top and lower seal. Now you have no nose gear dampening. On the annual, undo the nut to just on by a thread, lower the tail down and and secure with weight on the tie down or by the stab tubes and pull the nose fork off and hand lube the bearing, check the seal, clean and inspect. Inspect for uneven wear of the plastic disk. Check the one inch pin for security and alignment. Repair / Replace as necessary. While you have the fork off, do the wheel bearings at the same time. Tighten the nut to give 16 pounds or so with Nye type grease film on the leg and do a taxi test. Tighten the nut until the gear is a bit hard to break then back off one face. Go fly and test. Land and hold off the nose until 40, and let it down. If shimmy occurs, push forward and brake hard, and tighten one flat. Nye grease is quite good and sticky, but you must test for shimmy and disk compatability. You use so little, that personally, any stiff grease will do. I do not use silicones or lithium greases, only flurocarbon or silica thickened like Nye, Nyogel H, the spec is 774 or 868 which comes in small tubes for about 14 pounds or $20 US. See newgate on line or Specialty Chemicals... The aircraft kit manufacturer though has no comment on which is better, and neither do I. Remember, prolonged grease contact with plastic,(like the disk) may cause the disk to distort, soften (more common) and fail. That is why you want to go with the spec of 774 (the seven series) which is used with plastic gears and such and so far hasn't caused any problems. I have a spare disk though in my parts bag in the shop, just in case.... Check with the factory for changes. Regards, Bud Yerly CFC, Inc. ----- Original Message ----- From: Christoph Both To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:16 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nose wheel grease I need to check next time I am in the hangar, but I think this sounds about right. Bud, can you chime in? Thanks, Christoph From: William Daniell > "europa-list@matronics.com" > Date: Wednesday, 19 March, 2014 1:58 PM To: "europa-list@matronics.com" > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nose wheel grease Excellent thanks...I assume it is the heavy damping grease nyogel-767a? yours Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Christoph Both > wrote: Try this source: http://www.newgateonline.com/manufacturers/nye-lubricants.html Christoph From: William Daniell > "europa-list@matronics.com" > Date: Tuesday, 11 March, 2014 9:08 AM To: "europa-list@matronics.com" > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nose wheel grease Guys which is the NYE product to buy? And where do you get it from in the USA? Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listics.com .matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ics.com .matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:17 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: XS Fuel Tank From: "pestar" Look forward to seeing you for a coffee at some remote location (with NZ of course!!!!) soon. Cheers and well done Peter -------- Peter Armstrong Auckland, New Zealand DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me :) ). Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420781#420781 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:56 PM PST US From: Chris Cameron Subject: Europa-List: Warbirds over Wanaka Are any kiwi Europa owners going to be at Wanaka or Queenstown at Easter? No-one in the family (apart from me, of course) has seen a completed/flying aircraft and it would be great to meet up with someone who could show them what the finished plane will look like! Cheers Chris Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:38 PM PST US From: Tim Ward Subject: Re: Europa-List: Warbirds over Wanaka Chris, Unfortunately doing a Dreamliner Course so Wanaka is out for me. If I am passing Wellington/Paraparamu some day will drop. Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t@xtra.co.nz Ph 64 3 3515166 Mob 0210640221 > On 22/03/2014, at 10:19 am, Chris Cameron wrote: > > > Are any kiwi Europa owners going to be at Wanaka or Queenstown at Easter? > > No-one in the family (apart from me, of course) has seen a completed/flying aircraft and it would be great to meet up with someone who could show them what the finished plane will look like! > > Cheers > Chris > Sent from my iPad > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:00 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall pass throughs - fuel lines On Mar 21, 2014, at 10:43 AM, David Joyce wrote: > Any sort of fitting adds weight and leakage possibility. Going straight through the firewall with the hoses immobilised on both sides, with the passage sealed by silicone adds nil weight ,no leakage possibility and works in the sense that having already replaced hoses twice on a five year life basis, the pipes showed no sign of chafing wear. Why complicate things? David, Thanks for the description of your installation as well as your report of trouble-free operation over a ten year period=85yours is simplicity itself, and I salute you for it while I also admit to envy of your accumulating all the hours of airtime which you have while my kit remains in my workshop. >> Why complicate things? I suspect that one person=92s =93complication=94 may be another=92s sense of =93proper kit=94, both being subjective assessments for dealing w/ the task at hand, whatever it may be=85and...a reflection of one=92s =93comfort zone=94. In my case, I recall a sense of discomfort at the thought of simply running a rubber hose w/ fuel under high pressure through the firewall=85I was also keen on matching the FWF SS jacketed fuel line which my engine supplier had already used connecting the injector rails=85the firewall seemed like the logical place for the transition, and the weight of the aluminum fittings was not a detriment for me. As my fuel lines are under high pressure for a fuel-injected engine with the pumps located aft, I paid little attention to the build manual references to routing of the low pressure fuel lines for the Rotax engine, relying instead on an old dog-eared copy of an EAA publication, =93Firewall Forward=94 by Tony Bingelis. What I=92ve done made perfect sense to me at the time the work was being done=85 Cheers, Fred ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:51 PM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall pass throughs - fuel lines Fred, One thing I should have mentioned is that I have the Singleton firewall mod, which replaces the stainless steel with a thickish heat resistant fibreglass. That is of course a whole lot less likely to traumatise a rubber hose than stainless steel, but if I had the stainless steel original firewall I would still be tempted to try to make holes with a turned smooth edge or to get a large grommet so as to still avoid extra connectors. But that is all largely irrelevant, I guess with your fuel injected, high pressure system! Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 13:59:28 -0700 Fred Klein wrote: > > On Mar 21, 2014, at 10:43 AM, David Joyce > wrote: > >> Any sort of fitting adds weight and leakage possibility. >>Going straight through the firewall with the hoses >>immobilised on both sides, with the passage sealed by >>silicone adds nil weight ,no leakage possibility and >>works in the sense that having already replaced hoses >>twice on a five year life basis, the pipes showed no sign >>of chafing wear. Why complicate things? > > David, > > Thanks for the description of your installation as well >as your report of trouble-free operation over a ten year >periodyours is simplicity itself, and I salute you for >it while I also admit to envy of your accumulating all >the hours of airtime which you have while my kit remains >in my workshop. > >>> Why complicate things? > > I suspect that one persons complication may be >anothers sense of proper kit, both being subjective >assessments for dealing w/ the task at hand, whatever it >may beand...a reflection of ones comfort zone. > > In my case, I recall a sense of discomfort at the >thought of simply running a rubber hose w/ fuel under >high pressure through the firewallI was also keen on >matching the FWF SS jacketed fuel line which my engine >supplier had already used connecting the injector >railsthe firewall seemed like the logical place for the >transition, and the weight of the aluminum fittings was >not a detriment for me. > > As my fuel lines are under high pressure for a >fuel-injected engine with the pumps located aft, I paid >little attention to the build manual references to >routing of the low pressure fuel lines for the Rotax >engine, relying instead on an old dog-eared copy of an >EAA publication, Firewall Forward by Tony Bingelis. > > What Ive done made perfect sense to me at the time the >work was being done > > Cheers, > >Fred > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:42 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Wanaka From: Gavin Lee Hi Chris Here's a couple to show them what one looks like, taken on Wednesday at Waih i Beach Unfortunately I won't be at Wanaka either Cheers Gavin ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Warbirds over Wanaka From: Tony Renshaw Tim, Creating envy is not fair ! .Dreamliner course. I dont suppose we can joke about lithium batteries quite the way we used to. TR On 22 Mar 2014, at 9:54 am, Tim Ward wrote: > > Chris, > Unfortunately doing a Dreamliner Course so Wanaka is out for me. > If I am passing Wellington/Paraparamu some day will drop. > > Cheers, > > Tim > > Tim Ward > 12 Waiwetu Street > Fendalton, > Christchurch, 8052 > New Zealand. > > ward.t@xtra.co.nz > > Ph 64 3 3515166 > Mob 0210640221 > > >> On 22/03/2014, at 10:19 am, Chris Cameron wrote: >> >> >> Are any kiwi Europa owners going to be at Wanaka or Queenstown at Easter? >> >> No-one in the family (apart from me, of course) has seen a completed/flying aircraft and it would be great to meet up with someone who could show them what the finished plane will look like! >> >> Cheers >> Chris >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:24 PM PST US From: Kevin Klinefelter Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS Fuel Tank I agree! Very nice. Love to see more pics. Kevin > On Mar 21, 2014, at 8:06 AM, Fred Klein wrote: > > >> On Mar 20, 2014, at 8:45 PM, bill wrote: >> >> A very happy day as ZK CHV is now back in the air complete with a new alu minium fuel tank. > > Bill...Wowwell thought out and outstanding workmanshipI =99d love to see some additional in-process photos of the installation in the airframe. > > Fred > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:56 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Warbirds over Wanaka From: "pestar" Tim can just keep dreaming but I will hold the flag up for the French at Wanaka !!!!!':D' -------- Peter Armstrong Auckland, New Zealand DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me :) ). Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420805#420805 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:34 PM PST US From: Kevin Klinefelter Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wanaka Nice photos! Kevin > On Mar 21, 2014, at 4:50 PM, Gavin Lee wrote: > > Hi Chris > Here's a couple to show them what one looks like, taken on Wednesday at Waihi Beach > Unfortunately I won't be at Wanaka either > Cheers > Gavin > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.