Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:46 AM - New Rotax fuel pump (stephan cassel)
2. 02:22 AM - Re: Rotax 912uls with woodcomp 3000 prop (Martin Olliver)
3. 04:34 AM - Re: Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod (ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net)
4. 09:40 AM - Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod (William Daniell)
5. 09:58 AM - Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod (Fred Klein)
6. 10:54 AM - Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod (Robert Borger)
7. 11:40 AM - Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod (Fred Klein)
8. 11:54 AM - Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod (William Daniell)
9. 01:07 PM - Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod (spcialeffects)
10. 01:45 PM - Re: Rotax 912uls with woodcomp 3000 prop (graeme bird)
11. 01:50 PM - Itching to get to Ireland (graeme bird)
12. 03:14 PM - Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod (Robert Borger)
13. 03:31 PM - Fw: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod (Robert Borger)
14. 03:31 PM - Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod, and Mods to Existing Tank Setup to stabilise and future proof them. (Tony Renshaw)
15. 04:13 PM - Belgian airspace (david park)
16. 04:32 PM - Re: Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod (Andrew Sarangan)
17. 04:36 PM - Re: Belgian airspace (Kevin Challis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | New Rotax fuel pump |
Dear all,
This winter I mounted a new Rotax fuel pump per instructions.
The pressure in cruise is 2 PSI, i.e at the minimum value.
Yesterday when I turned my electric fuel pump off the pressure
went below 2 PSI for a short while (3-4 sec). I would guess 1.75 PSI
(Yes, finger on the electric pump switch)
My old pump gave me slightly higher pressure.
I have mounted a restriction insert on the return line per builder=B4s manu
al,
It would be interesting to see if one more restriction insert (I have one
extra)
will make the pressure a bit higher.
Is there other Europa pilots that also have low pressure with new or old
pump?
Best regards
Stephan
LN-STE mono
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912uls with woodcomp 3000 prop |
Hi William.
I will have a mod number for you. I have fitted a woodcomp 3000 VP prop to a 912ULs
I am at flight test stage.
Best wishes
Martin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421280#421280
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| Subject: | Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod |
To be clear,=C2-Ian Rickard's very useful=C2-drawing is not
definitive to all variants; earlier tanks have a lesser volume
, and the very first few were quite different and larger v
olume. Some of the latter may have been replaced during the
build.=0A=C2-=0ADuncan McF.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original
Message-----=0AFrom: nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk <nigel_graham@m-te
cque.co.uk>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sat, 29 Mar
2014 10:53=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Re: XS Fuel Tank Ki
wi Mod=0A=0AFred et al,=0A=0ABack in 2010, Ian Rickard
produced this excellent drawing (attached) of the Europa tank
. This indicates that the material is medium density polyethyl
ene, flourine treated (the process that makes epoxy stick so
well to it). Ian has indicated when and where various change
s were made over time.=0A=0ANigel=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 27/0
3/2014 15:43, Fred Klein wrote:=0A=0A=0AOn Mar 27, 2014,
at 3:38 AM, Pete Lawless <pete@lawless.info> wrote:=0Agiven
that the original Europa supplied tanks were known to have
been made of the 'wrong material' are Europa continuing to m
ake tanks from the same 'wrong material' or are the newly
supplied tanks made of something different.=C2- It may be th
at Europa are still working their way through a large origin
al batch.Anyone know?=0A=0AI certainly do not =9Cknow
=9D, but it has been my understanding that at some point
Europa changed from the original lo-density material to a hi-d
ensity materialcan anyone can confirm that?=0A=0A=0A
Apropos to this thread, it would seem to be of value if
we could track the kit numbers and the accumulated flight ti
mes of those tanks which have failed, as well as any other
aspects of the failures which may seem pertinent such as
ambient temperatures, long-term storage while empty, etc.=0A=0A
=0AFred=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod |
Fred
yes....the idea of having fuel vapor around ...especially with my workshop
(garage) ....
as for the fuel tank change...I think you're being optimistic I think it
would be significantly easier without the top on but I don't see an
alternative...you don't really what to do a major surgery for something
that might never happen
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 7:41 PM, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
>
> On Mar 29, 2014, at 9:11 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> My tank dates from 2003. Everything is in and I am planning to close the
> fuselage. I have understood that once filled (except for the comments
> about the aux tank) with fuel it's better to leave the tank full.
>
> However I would like to check the fuel system for two reasons, one to
> check that it all works and the other is that if it does split I am
> thinking that the major surgery will be easier without the top on.
>
> Is it a good idea to do this before closure bearing in mind that it will
> take be another 18 months (ha!) before flying?....or should I just hope for
> the best?
>
>
> Will,
>
> FWIW, I pondered the same question...in my case, the problems w/ the fuel
> tank arose after I'd bonded my CM into the canoe.
>
> I reasoned first that all Europas were not experiencing the leaks in the
> fuel tank, and that the leaks were occurring after considerable flight
> times.
>
> I concluded that the best way forward for me was to keep the tank dry
> until engine test / taxi trials and proceed w/ the build w/o delay. I also
> concluded that replacement of the tank, though a somewhat nasty process,
> would not be significantly different w/ or w/o the top on, and I am
> prepared to trouble-shoot the fuel system for leaks when I'm ready for
> engine tests.
>
> Thus far, considering the passage of time and multiple hazards of having
> fuel in the aircraft during construction, I'm content w/ following this
> strategy. My only regret is my clear recollection of questioning the build
> manual's instructions for bonding the tank into the CM, then NOT raising
> the issue for discussion on this forum, and telling myself "if it's in the
> manual, it must be correct".
>
> Onward,
>
> Fred
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod |
On Mar 30, 2014, at 9:40 AM, William Daniell
<wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think you're being optimistic I think it would be significantly
easier without the top on but I don't see an alternative=85
Will=85I would never recommend building a Europa to anyone who was not
an optimist=85but, without wishing to tempt fate, consider the task of
replacing tank w/ wings and doors off=85IMO, t=92would not be much
different than w/ top off as well=85Fred
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod |
Gentlemen,
Having just replaced my fuel tank, I can speak to this issue. I did the
replacement with doors on & wings off. There is one issue in fitting
the new tank. The door sill on one side must be cut out to allow the
new tank to go in:
If the top were not on, this cut would not be required.
But, there=92s no way you would be replacing the tank till long after
the top is on in any case. You can slosh all the av/mo gas you want
doing fuel testing, etc, during the build and you won=92t affect the
tank. The tank will have to be in contact with the fuel for an extended
period of time to absorb sufficient fuel or entrained solvents to soften
the tank material.
=46rom my experience, the tank crack arises after the tank has sat empty
for some extended period, such as mono to tri gear conversion. That
seems to make the tank material brittle. After the tank has been
refilled for some short duration is when the cracking usually occurs.
Just my experience. I=92d say finish your aircraft and don=92t worry
about unless you have an extended down time with an empty tank. If you
do, watch carefully for fuel loss or what appears to be sudden excessive
fuel consumption.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Mar 30, 2014, at 11:57 AM, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
On Mar 30, 2014, at 9:40 AM, William Daniell
<wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think you're being optimistic I think it would be significantly
easier without the top on but I don't see an alternative=85
Will=85I would never recommend building a Europa to anyone who was not
an optimist=85but, without wishing to tempt fate, consider the task of
replacing tank w/ wings and doors off=85IMO, t=92would not be much
different than w/ top off as well=85Fred
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod |
On Mar 30, 2014, at 10:53 AM, Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com> wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>
> Having just replaced my fuel tank, I can speak to this issue. I did the replacement
with doors on & wings off. There is one issue in fitting the new tank.
The door sill on one side must be cut out to allow the new tank to go in:
Bobsorry to hear that youve had to go this, but grateful for your insights into
and photos of the process. When installing the new tank, were you following
any explicit instructions (from where/who?) as to how best to support and secure
the tank?
Did you consider having your tank treated w/ additional fluoridation treatment?
If so, did you make all cuts into the tank before sending it off for treatment?
(Its been my understanding that the cracks were the result of stress concentrations
caused by the fiberglass shelf and supports bonding to the tank; consequently
Ive presumed that the fix, in addition to the new tank itself, was to ensure
there was a bond break or slip sheet between the new tank and its supportsbut
perhaps Im mistaken, and the brittleness and subsequent cracking is a consequence
of fuel interacting w/ the tank material alone, irrespective of potential
stress concentrations caused by portions of the tank being unable to expand
and contract?)
jus fulla questions, but tryin to get my head around this...
Fred
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod |
let's hope we never have to find out
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 11:57 AM, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
>
> On Mar 30, 2014, at 9:40 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I think you're being optimistic I think it would be significantly easier
> without the top on but I don't see an alternative...
>
>
> Will...I would never recommend building a Europa to anyone who was not an
> optimist...but, without wishing to tempt fate, consider the task of replacing
> tank w/ wings and doors off...IMO, t'would not be much different than w/ top
> off as well...Fred
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod |
Once the cradle gets bonded in the top "shelf" of the tank is supported by the
other lay up 'T' piece which is on the seat back.
asarangan(at)gmail.com wrote:
> Your cradle idea is a good one. I am doing something similar right now.
> One thing I noticed with your setup is that the tank could potentially
> pivot and tip forward under weight. The cradle may need an additional
> support at the forward end.
> In my case, I am bonding the cradle to both bulkheads (seat back and
> baggage bay), creating a sturdy raised floor for the tank to rest on.
> Like yours, I also have lateral and fore-aft support to hold the tank
> in place. I don't have pictures yet, but will have some soon.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 5:07 AM, spcialeffects wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I copied this idea from someone else, think i saw it on the europa org site
so all credit to them.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421233#421233
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/swollen_tank_161.jpg
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/cradle_lay_up_208.jpg
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/trimed_and_ready_122.jpg
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/gap_behind_tank_165.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421300#421300
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912uls with woodcomp 3000 prop |
I am using the that combination, with the wide blade. Not sure if I needed a mod
or if it was just added to the approved list of possible props - in any case
you can quote G-UMPY, its been on more than a year.
What advice do you need?
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 95 hours 18 months
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421303#421303
Message 11
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| Subject: | Itching to get to Ireland |
Thinking of trips for this year, and must get to Ireland from Beds UK, any recommendations
for a day trip, friendly field near something interesting? I gather
I need to file a GAR form, and guess I have to land at a designated 'port'.
Graeme
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 95 hours 18 months
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421304#421304
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod |
Hi Fred,
I used Bud=92s instructions for the fuel tank replacement.
Andrew Sarangan and I sent our tanks out for heavy-duty fluoridation.
No, I did not make cuts before fluoridation.
Yes, to the stress concentrations caused by the fiberglass =93shelf."
My tank cracked right at the corners of one of those fiberglass layups:
In this view the top of the tank is off and you are looking down into
the port side of the tank. The crack is pretty well defined in blue and
is right on the corner of the outside, forward corner of the =93shelf.=94
Right at the 45=BA predicted by stress analysis.
Kinda/sorta, the fix is to provide support under the tank. The rear
=93shelf=94 is still there attached to the rear bulkhead which carries
most of the load supported on a layer of cork. There is also support
built under the forward part of the bottom of the tank. This is a thick
micro applied in lines upon which the tank was set (plastic wrap used as
a parting agent) and the micro allowed to cure. The micro was also
covered with cork. The micro is not to provide primary support only
secondary support should the gas soften the tank and allow some sag.
The micro would support the sag rather than sagging over the shelf
causing another stress riser. The aluminum T shelf on the front
bulkhead had a layer of urethane foam bonded on top to support the ledge
of the tank. This was also covered with cork.
=46rom my (very limited) research on this issue it appears that tank
cracking is a combination of things. First, of tank softening due to
the absorption of fuel or solvents in the fuel. Second, softening
causing sagging. Third, stresses induced by sagging over a corner of
the fiberglass used to support the tank on the aft bulkhead. Fourth,
perhaps the tank becoming brittle and more susceptible to cracking by
removal of the fuel and subsequent evaporation of the fuel or solvent
from the softened fuel tank material. I=92ve seen pictures of a crack
virtually identical to mine only on the starboard side. I also saw a
picture of a crack on the starboard side corner of the fiberglass
support in the tunnel area.
Some sort of support is needed under the tank to prevent the sagging
causing stress risers on the corners of the fiberglass. I=92m providing
support as suggested by Bud in his fuel tank replacement guide.
Bud has his fuel tank replacement instructions available on his company
website.
Being fulla questions isn=92t a problem. I just hope you can get
satisfactory answers for them.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Mar 30, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
On Mar 30, 2014, at 10:53 AM, Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com> wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>
> Having just replaced my fuel tank, I can speak to this issue. I did
the replacement with doors on & wings off. There is one issue in
fitting the new tank. The door sill on one side must be cut out to
allow the new tank to go in:
Bob=85sorry to hear that you=92ve had to go this, but grateful for your
insights into and photos of the process. When installing the new tank,
were you following any explicit instructions (from where/who?) as to how
best to support and secure the tank?
Did you consider having your tank treated w/ additional fluoridation
treatment? If so, did you make all cuts into the tank before sending it
off for treatment?
(It=92s been my understanding that the cracks were the result of stress
concentrations caused by the fiberglass shelf and supports bonding to
the tank; consequently I=92ve presumed that the =93fix=94, in addition
to the new tank itself, was to ensure there was a bond break or slip
sheet between the new tank and it=92s supports=85but perhaps I=92m
mistaken, and the brittleness and subsequent cracking is a consequence
of fuel interacting w/ the tank material alone, irrespective of
potential stress concentrations caused by portions of the tank being
unable to expand and contract=85?=85)
=85jus fulla questions, but tryin to get my head around this...
Fred
Message 13
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| Subject: | XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod |
Sorry guys, missed a picture in the original post
Begin forwarded message:
From: Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod
Hi Fred,
I used Bud=92s instructions for the fuel tank replacement.
Andrew Sarangan and I sent our tanks out for heavy-duty fluoridation.
No, I did not make cuts before fluoridation.
Yes, to the stress concentrations caused by the fiberglass =93shelf."
My tank cracked right at the corners of one of those fiberglass layups:
In this view the top of the tank is off and you are looking down into
the port side of the tank. The crack is pretty well defined in blue and
is right on the corner of the outside, forward corner of the =93shelf.=94
Right at the 45=BA predicted by stress analysis.
Kinda/sorta, the fix is to provide support under the tank. The rear
=93shelf=94 is still there attached to the rear bulkhead which carries
most of the load supported on a layer of cork. There is also support
built under the forward part of the bottom of the tank. This is a thick
micro applied in lines upon which the tank was set (plastic wrap used as
a parting agent) and the micro allowed to cure. The micro was also
covered with cork. The micro is not to provide primary support only
secondary support should the gas soften the tank and allow some sag.
The micro would support the sag rather than sagging over the shelf
causing another stress riser.
The aluminum T shelf on the front bulkhead had a layer of urethane foam
bonded on top to support the ledge of the tank. This was also covered
with cork.
=46rom my (very limited) research on this issue it appears that tank
cracking is a combination of things. First, of tank softening due to
the absorption of fuel or solvents in the fuel. Second, softening
causing sagging. Third, stresses induced by sagging over a corner of
the fiberglass used to support the tank on the aft bulkhead. Fourth,
perhaps the tank becoming brittle and more susceptible to cracking by
removal of the fuel and subsequent evaporation of the fuel or solvent
from the softened fuel tank material. I=92ve seen pictures of a crack
virtually identical to mine only on the starboard side. I also saw a
picture of a crack on the starboard side corner of the fiberglass
support in the tunnel area.
Some sort of support is needed under the tank to prevent the sagging
causing stress risers on the corners of the fiberglass. I=92m providing
support as suggested by Bud in his fuel tank replacement guide.
Bud has his fuel tank replacement instructions available on his company
website.
Being fulla questions isn=92t a problem. I just hope you can get
satisfactory answers for them.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Mar 30, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
On Mar 30, 2014, at 10:53 AM, Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com> wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>
> Having just replaced my fuel tank, I can speak to this issue. I did
the replacement with doors on & wings off. There is one issue in
fitting the new tank. The door sill on one side must be cut out to
allow the new tank to go in:
Bob=85sorry to hear that you=92ve had to go this, but grateful for your
insights into and photos of the process. When installing the new tank,
were you following any explicit instructions (from where/who?) as to how
best to support and secure the tank?
Did you consider having your tank treated w/ additional fluoridation
treatment? If so, did you make all cuts into the tank before sending it
off for treatment?
(It=92s been my understanding that the cracks were the result of stress
concentrations caused by the fiberglass shelf and supports bonding to
the tank; consequently I=92ve presumed that the =93fix=94, in addition
to the new tank itself, was to ensure there was a bond break or slip
sheet between the new tank and it=92s supports=85but perhaps I=92m
mistaken, and the brittleness and subsequent cracking is a consequence
of fuel interacting w/ the tank material alone, irrespective of
potential stress concentrations caused by portions of the tank being
unable to expand and contract=85?=85)
=85jus fulla questions, but tryin to get my head around this...
Fred
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod, and Mods to Existing Tank Setup |
to stabilise and future proof them.
Gidday,
I am hoping someone has a more definitive way of preserving the tanks we
have, those that have only built as per the manual. I get in trouble
from my Europa Dad for not following the manual, and in fact I often
don=92t know where it is, but in this case it seems like it was a
mistake to not perceive a threat of the tank splitting over time. Mine
is in, and whilst I know of low expansion foam squirted in underneath
the tank in situ, I am hoping someone may have come up with another,
better and less messy solution.
Even with the Expanding foams, I am hoping to get a suggestion of the
best type to use, which of itself probably creates for me a problem
because I=92ll have to get it out of the US no doubt, or UK, and get it
home to Aussie somehow. We seem to have a very limited range of
expanding foams, down under. So, any advice much appreciated, as always.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
On 31 Mar 2014, at 9:13 am, Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com> wrote:
> Hi Fred,
>
> I used Bud=92s instructions for the fuel tank replacement.
>
> Andrew Sarangan and I sent our tanks out for heavy-duty fluoridation.
>
> No, I did not make cuts before fluoridation.
>
> Yes, to the stress concentrations caused by the fiberglass =93shelf."
My tank cracked right at the corners of one of those fiberglass layups:
>
> <IMG_6973_em_s.jpg>
> In this view the top of the tank is off and you are looking down into
the port side of the tank. The crack is pretty well defined in blue and
is right on the corner of the outside, forward corner of the =93shelf.=94
Right at the 45=BA predicted by stress analysis.
>
> Kinda/sorta, the fix is to provide support under the tank. The rear
=93shelf=94 is still there attached to the rear bulkhead which carries
most of the load supported on a layer of cork. There is also support
built under the forward part of the bottom of the tank. This is a thick
micro applied in lines upon which the tank was set (plastic wrap used as
a parting agent) and the micro allowed to cure. The micro was also
covered with cork. The micro is not to provide primary support only
secondary support should the gas soften the tank and allow some sag.
The micro would support the sag rather than sagging over the shelf
causing another stress riser. The aluminum T shelf on the front
bulkhead had a layer of urethane foam bonded on top to support the ledge
of the tank. This was also covered with cork.
>
> <IMG_7231_em_s.jpg>
>
>
> =46rom my (very limited) research on this issue it appears that tank
cracking is a combination of things. First, of tank softening due to
the absorption of fuel or solvents in the fuel. Second, softening
causing sagging. Third, stresses induced by sagging over a corner of
the fiberglass used to support the tank on the aft bulkhead. Fourth,
perhaps the tank becoming brittle and more susceptible to cracking by
removal of the fuel and subsequent evaporation of the fuel or solvent
from the softened fuel tank material. I=92ve seen pictures of a crack
virtually identical to mine only on the starboard side. I also saw a
picture of a crack on the starboard side corner of the fiberglass
support in the tunnel area.
>
> Some sort of support is needed under the tank to prevent the sagging
causing stress risers on the corners of the fiberglass. I=92m providing
support as suggested by Bud in his fuel tank replacement guide.
>
> Bud has his fuel tank replacement instructions available on his
company website.
>
> Being fulla questions isn=92t a problem. I just hope you can get
satisfactory answers for them.
>
> Blue skies & tailwinds,
> Bob Borger
> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).
> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
> Cel: 817-992-1117
> rlborger@mac.com
>
> On Mar 30, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2014, at 10:53 AM, Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> Gentlemen,
>>
>> Having just replaced my fuel tank, I can speak to this issue. I did
the replacement with doors on & wings off. There is one issue in
fitting the new tank. The door sill on one side must be cut out to
allow the new tank to go in:
>
> Bob=85sorry to hear that you=92ve had to go this, but grateful for
your insights into and photos of the process. When installing the new
tank, were you following any explicit instructions (from where/who?) as
to how best to support and secure the tank?
>
> Did you consider having your tank treated w/ additional fluoridation
treatment? If so, did you make all cuts into the tank before sending it
off for treatment?
>
> (It=92s been my understanding that the cracks were the result of
stress concentrations caused by the fiberglass shelf and supports
bonding to the tank; consequently I=92ve presumed that the =93fix=94, in
addition to the new tank itself, was to ensure there was a bond break or
slip sheet between the new tank and it=92s supports=85but perhaps I=92m
mistaken, and the brittleness and subsequent cracking is a consequence
of fuel interacting w/ the tank material alone, irrespective of
potential stress concentrations caused by portions of the tank being
unable to expand and contract=85?=85)
>
> =85jus fulla questions, but tryin to get my head around this...
>
> Fred
Message 15
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| Subject: | Belgian airspace |
Anyone with experience of transiting Belgian airspace? With or without notification?
IE. coast hugging up to Netherlands.?
Dave Park G -LDVO
Sent from my iPad
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: XS Fuel Tank Kiwi Mod |
FWIW, if the bottom is securely held by the cradle, then the top
should not need a separate support. There is only a couple of gallons
of fuel there anywhere. In fact supporting the top could put weight on
the top shelf and lead to stress at the shelf joint, especially if the
cradle tips forward due to weight.
On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 4:06 PM, spcialeffects <spcialeffects@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Once the cradle gets bonded in the top "shelf" of the tank is supported by the
other lay up 'T' piece which is on the seat back.
>
>
> asarangan(at)gmail.com wrote:
>> Your cradle idea is a good one. I am doing something similar right now.
>> One thing I noticed with your setup is that the tank could potentially
>> pivot and tip forward under weight. The cradle may need an additional
>> support at the forward end.
>> In my case, I am bonding the cradle to both bulkheads (seat back and
>> baggage bay), creating a sturdy raised floor for the tank to rest on.
>> Like yours, I also have lateral and fore-aft support to hold the tank
>> in place. I don't have pictures yet, but will have some soon.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 5:07 AM, spcialeffects wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > I copied this idea from someone else, think i saw it on the europa org site
so all credit to them.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421233#421233
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Attachments:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/swollen_tank_161.jpg
>> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/cradle_lay_up_208.jpg
>> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/trimed_and_ready_122.jpg
>> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/gap_behind_tank_165.jpg
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421300#421300
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Belgian airspace |
Just did it along the coast. I know you are meant to get permission and pay them
money.
Kevin
> On 31 Mar 2014, at 00:12, david park <dpark748@me.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Anyone with experience of transiting Belgian airspace? With or without notification?
> IE. coast hugging up to Netherlands.?
> Dave Park G -LDVO
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
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