Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: facebook or twitter (Max Cointe (Free))
2. 10:57 AM - Re: Airspeed static ports. (Frans Veldman)
3. 10:59 AM - =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__Re:_Europa-List:_Re:_Europa-List:_Re:_Eur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?opa_crash_in_L=C3=BCbeck/Germany? (Max Cointe (Free))
4. 01:35 PM - =?utf-8?B?UmU6IEV1cm9wYS1MaXN0OiBSRTogRXVyb3BhLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBFdXJvcGEt?= =?utf-8?B?TGlzdDogUmU6IEV1cm9wYSBjcmFzaCBpbiBMw4PCvGJlY2svR2VybWFueQ==? (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
5. 01:49 PM - =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__Re:_Europa-List:_Re:_Europa-List:_Re:_Eur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?opa-List:_Re:_Europa_crash_in_L=C3=BCbeck/Germany? (Bud Yerly)
6. 07:51 PM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:__Re:_Europa-List:_Re:_Euro?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?pa-List:_Re:_Europa_crash_in_L=C3=BCbeck/Germany? (Bud Yerly)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: facebook or twitter |
+ 1
Will NEVER have an account on both
Max Cointe
mcointe@free.fr
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours
F-PLDJ DynAro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1600 heures
-----Message d'origine-----
De: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Remi Guerner
Envoy: vendredi 9 mai 2014 09:28
: europa-list@matronics.com
Objet: Europa-List: Re: facebook or twitter
--> <air.guerner@orange.fr>
Add me to the list of those who will not use facebook or twitter Remi
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423042#423042
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Airspeed static ports. |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On 05/13/2014 12:07 AM, Tony Renshaw wrote:
> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>
> Hi Fran's, I expect the pressure in the aft fuselage might be more
> representative than cockpit pressure,
Not in my airplane. In my airplane the aft fuselage seems to be of
higher pressure than the cockpit. I installed a vent in the D-panel
with the intention to let the air out, but it is blowing into the
cockpit instead! I have no idea where the air is leaving again as
every opening in the cockpit seems to be blowing inward (and yes my
doors are sealed with a center pin arrangement). Also I don't
understand why the aft fuselage is pressurised. The main openings in
the aft fuselage are the tailplane drive slots but it looks to me they
are in a low pressure area. The slots for the flap drive are covered
by the wing root fairings so they are normally sealed in flight. The
only other openings are the small openings for the rudder cable and
one small opening in the sternpost for the rudder drive rod.
> Believe it or not I have this Nylaflow? Tubing, the hard walled
> opaque stuff from ACS, and it makes an excellent push to fit. I am
> tempted to use the 3/8" OD inside a 3/8" ID joiner, and just push
> them together. Very un-aviation, but if you've ever done it, you'll
> appreciate how hard they are to pull apart, and no vibration is
> going to do it.
I have used this equipment to plumb my entire pitot/static system.
Only for the wing to fuselage connection I use the "official" quick
(dis)connect fittings. I agree that it is great stuff.
Frans
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)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=LAm1
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: o-8859-1?Q?RE:_Europa-List:_RE:_Europa-List:_Re:_Europa-List:_Re:_Eur?= |
=?iso-8859-1?Q?opa_crash_in_L=C3=BCbeck/Germany?
Hi Bud,
A lot of respect for your knowledge about flying (safely) in general and
building and flying Europa=92s in particular.
The only point in your list which I can=92t execute belongs to temp in
summer:
always cooling problems on ground and have to be cautious as soon as hot
weather comes=85
Max Cointe
<mailto:mcointe@free.fr> mcointe@free.fr
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours
F-PLDJ Dyn=92A=E9ro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1600 heures
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Bud Yerly
Envoy=E9 : lundi 12 mai 2014 06:29
=C0 : europa-list
Objet : Europa-List: RE: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa crash
in
L=C3=BCbeck/Germany
Graham and others.
Good comment on the leading edge curve. My Classic wing has that slight
cup
sanded and filled off by my painter. It has a bit of a sharp stall like
a
normal series 6 airfoil.
On the accident comments:
I hate to speculate, but the accident investigator training and
extensive
flight envelope expanding time I have acquired, leads me to use caution
speculating at this time and to causes and early on assumptions on
should
have had equipment, etc.
The initial test phase of the Europa (or any aircraft) needs to make
sure it
is made in baby steps.
After building 18 aircraft 15 of which are Europas (yes I am starting
our
16th Europa in the shop) and test flying many other owners aircraft,
many
things can cause a takeoff leg stall spin type accident.
My last call from a US accident inspector was a very long time ago.
Here is
what we discussed on a takeoff leg, attempted turn back and high angle
impact deadly crash of an experienced pilot and seasoned aircraft.
Off the top of my fuzzy balding head:
On takeoff the Europa has a very good rate of climb and deck angle. In
testing of 12AY (a Classic) with 914, the full flap takeoff has a deck
angle
of 10 degrees (and about a 12.5 degree angle of attack) at 55 Knots.
When
pulling the power back abruptly during test, at 55 knots, I found only 3
seconds with the nose up pushed me into the stall warning.
Since the full flap approach angle power of the my old Classic is about
8
degrees glide slope or so, one can see that it requires a 13 degree push
over to try to preserve airspeed and control.
Lesson for everybody: Recovery from a takeoff engine failure requires
an
aggressive nose down push to preserve airspeed.
Clean, it wasn't much better, in fact with the 914 at 65 knots the deck
angle is close to 15 degrees and the results were a very rapid bleed off
unless a push over to nose slightly below the horizon (about 5 degrees)
was
necessary to preserve airspeed.
To the comments on the web regarding AOA and flight testing:
A new pilot checking his aircraft out is not safe by adding equipment to
help determine his AOA. These systems require calibration and testing.
I
doubt these folks had time to test and calibrate aircraft systems in
flight
test yet. Un-calibrated equipment often times leads to more cockpit
distractions early on.
I have no data on this accident and doubt I or we will get much other
than
stall spin accident.
My flight test comments are as follows:
We know that in the preflight phase, Annex E for wing angles/tail plane
angles and control throws is not enough. Retract tests are essential to
verify gear lock, flap position/operation, and outrigger lock operates
full
proof. The engine and fuel system must be bullet proof at level and max
angle nose up. The fuel system must be able to go from empty to fully
primed at max angle with only 5 gallons total (the main and reserve side
holding 2.5 each across the saddle) in 5 seconds or less. Complete Wt.
and
Balance and a review of max forward, aft and test flight loads and CGs
verified on the Wt and Bal form. (I normally will fly with a minimum of
10
gallons US on test flights.) The engine must run flawlessly idle to
full
and not overheat on the ground for 20-25 minutes running at summer time
temps.
The electrical system must be able to handle the load, and if there is a
cockpit smoke situation, battery off, the engine must run with ignition
only. (914s don't forget the Aux pump operation.)
All engine instruments and flight instruments/equipment (pitot and
static)
must be verified for accuracy and operation prior to flight. (Read as no
red
light distractions on takeoff or funky airspeed and altitude
indications).
Trim must be checked and verified operational.
All aux systems must be operational or placarded and left off. (Radio is
a
must, Transponder is often required, ELT operational, (I turn AOA and
Autopilots off).
The night before, I chair fly and prepare for the flight. I go over
aircraft systems, test parameters, panel layout and specifics of complex
electrical systems.
Flight one is 15 minutes to check for runs drips and errors. (Immediate
acceleration to 75 and climb at 90.) (Normally I can fly one of our
planes
hands off, feet only, half way down the 4000 foot strip above 50 feet.)
Climb to 2500 feet or so and check the trim and rig from 70 to 100
Knots.
Return to the pattern, 80 on downwind, no slower than 75 in the turns,
and
no slower than 70 on final. One of two low approaches if in a mono is
OK.
Land and pull the cowl and inspect. Fix any and everything you found
abnormal.
Flight two expands the envelope to check engine climb temps and
performance.
Check CS prop operation, and climb 3 mistakes high and do A/S
verification,
stalls, falls and pitch and roll stability. Typically our engines are
flawless so it is only a 45 minute flight. If all goes well and we have
good stall characteristics, go back and review the flight. (I have
needed
stall strips on the root to get a good early burble feel prior to stall.
Once I am convinced the pilot (who has normally flown in my aircraft for
about 5 hours and is very current in other types) is ready, I prebrief
with
him and hand him the keys for a test hop.
However, I have been guilty of flying a test flight early into the
flight
phase dual. Confidence in the aircraft has to be extremely high to do
this.
A thorough brief of what will happen if the engine quits on takeoff is a
must. The aircraft is the last thing I will attempt to save. Two
people
flying an untested aircraft is too much exposure and sometimes weight.
( My
rule is the plane is not ready for test flight unless you are prepared
to
knock on the test pilots door and explain her husband is dead, and there
was
nothing that you could have done to make the aircraft safer.)
Typically in the flight phase we go out dual and do stalls, slow flight,
advance handling at minimum speeds and ascertain if the pilot is
comfortable, the stalls are predictable and easily recognized. ( I am
the
technical observer who is verifying airspeeds, pitch angles, stall
buffet,
system operation and calibration while the client flies.) This is where
the
AOA, Autopilot etc. gets calibrated or rung out.
Frankly, my opinion is that an AOA systems in straight wing aircraft is
a
waste of money for me and I prefer a well installed stall strip (swept
wing
aircraft are different). That said, after the 3rd 300 mile leg in 90F
degree weather, sometimes it is nice to have "Bitching Betty" remind me
that
I am not paying attention. Fatigue and complacency do set in to us all.
If one adds my vortex generators for STOL capability, watch your speed
as
the aircraft handles so well down to 50 Knots clean, you could be
falling
with style and not know it unless looking at the airspeed. Here is
where an
AOA, Airspeed Warner like the Europa Stall indicator, and proper stall
strip
can be handy.
Right now all I can do is pray for the families heartbreak and learn
from
the lessons hard learned from previous aircraft accidents and my own
experiences. Then when appropriate, pass on the hard learned lessons
to
those who may benefit.
Regards to all,
Bud
_____
From: grahamsingleton@btinternet.com
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa crash in
L=C3=BCbeck/Germany
Graeme
I was refering to the Classic Europa wing. The section has a slight bump
just
under the LE which is very easily sanded off. The nose radius is also
quite
small,
again easy to sand off even with a sheet of fine abrasive round the
LE.Accurate
templates are essential and the plans version isn't accurate enough for
these subtle
curves. That's what was wrong with G-KWIP's wing. Always dropped L wing
in a
flaps down
stall.
Graham
_____
From: graeme bird <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk>
Sent: Sunday, 11 May 2014, 18:57
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa crash in L=C3=BCbeck/Germany
Interesting to hear that you can fly with a flap down; but for me a lot
is
going on just after take off, watching the gauges, the speed the VSI,
changing prop pitch, unlocking to get the wheel up and pushing the
leaver
with the right hand etc - maybe the spring/tension is a bit off if its
first
flight, I am not sure how I would cope if there were to be a sudden roll
at
that point.
Yep I also value Grahams wisdom and contributions; I am just thinking of
the
message, unintentionally, its sending to current builders. The fact is
hundreds have been made by imperfect amateurs and the stall
characteristics
are one of the first things explored during the test flights.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 105 hours 26 months on the Mono
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423188#423188
p; -Matt Dralle, Libution" ======
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
http://forums.matronics.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | =?utf-8?B?UmU6IEV1cm9wYS1MaXN0OiBSRTogRXVyb3BhLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBFdXJvcGEt?= |
=?utf-8?B?TGlzdDogUmU6IEV1cm9wYSBjcmFzaCBpbiBMw4PCvGJlY2svR2VybWFueQ==?
Max=0Ais it feasible for you to enclose the exhaust pipe by adding a final
tunnel for cooling air exit? There=0Ais a lot of energy in the exhaust and
it will pull the cooling air through on the ground. Works with Lycomings.
=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Max Coint
e (Free) <mcointe@free.fr>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday
, 13 May 2014, 18:58=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List: Re: Europ
a-List: Re: Europa crash in L=C3=83=C2=BCbeck/Germany=0A =0A=0A=0AHi Bud,
=0A=C2-=0AA lot of respect for your knowledge about flying (safely) in ge
neral and building and flying Europa=99s in particular.=0AThe only po
int in your list which I can=99t execute belongs to temp in summer: a
lways cooling problems on ground and have to be cautious as soon as hot wea
ther comes=0A=C2-=0AMax=C2- Cointe=0Amcointe@free.fr=0AF-PMLH
Europa XS_TriGear=0AKit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours=0A=C2-
=0AF-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S =0AKit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7
A 1600 heures=0A=C2-=0ADe=C2-:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [m
ailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Bud Yerly=0AEnv
oy=C3=A9=C2-: lundi 12 mai 2014 06:29=0A=C3=C2-: europa-list=0AObjet
=C2-: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa crash in
L=C3=83=C2=BCbeck/Germany=0A=C2-=0AGraham and others.=0A=C2-=0AGood com
ment on the leading edge curve.=C2- My Classic wing has that slight cup s
anded and filled off by my painter.=C2- It has a bit of a sharp stall lik
e a normal series 6 airfoil.=0A=C2-=0AOn the accident comments:=0AI hate
to speculate, but the accident investigator training and extensive flight e
nvelope expanding time I have acquired, leads=C2-me to use caution specul
ating at this time and to causes and early on assumptions on=C2-should ha
ve had equipment, etc.=0A=C2-=0AThe initial test phase of the Europa (or
any aircraft)=C2-needs to make sure it is made in baby steps.=0AAfter bui
lding 18 aircraft 15 of which are Europas=C2-(yes=C2-I am starting our
16th Europa in the shop) and test flying many other owners aircraft, many t
hings can cause a takeoff leg stall spin type accident.=C2- =0A=C2-=0AM
y last call from a US accident inspector was a very long time ago.=C2- He
re is what we discussed on a takeoff leg, attempted turn=C2-back and high
angle impact deadly crash of an experienced pilot and seasoned aircraft.
=0A=C2-=0AOff the top of my fuzzy balding head:=0AOn takeoff the Europa h
as a very good rate of climb and deck angle.=C2- In testing of 12AY (a Cl
assic) with 914, the full flap takeoff has a deck angle of 10 degrees (and
=C2-about a 12.5 degree=C2-angle of attack) at 55 Knots.=C2- When pul
ling the power back abruptly during test, at 55 knots, I found only 3 secon
ds with the nose up pushed me into the stall warning.=0A=C2-=0ASince the
full flap approach angle power of the my old Classic is about 8 degrees gli
de slope or so, one can see that it requires a 13 degree push over to try t
o preserve airspeed and control.=0A=C2-=0ALesson for everybody:=C2- Rec
overy from a takeoff engine failure requires an aggressive nose down push t
o preserve airspeed.=0A=C2-=0AClean, it wasn't much better, in fact with
the 914 at 65 knots the deck angle is close to 15 degrees and the results w
ere a very rapid bleed off unless a push over to nose slightly below the ho
rizon=C2- (about 5 degrees) was necessary to preserve airspeed.=0A=C2-
=0ATo the comments on the web regarding AOA and flight testing:=0AA new pil
ot checking his aircraft out is not safe by adding equipment to help determ
ine his AOA.=C2- These systems require calibration and testing.=C2- I d
oubt these folks had time to test and calibrate aircraft systems in flight
test yet.=C2- Un-calibrated equipment often times leads to more cockpit d
istractions early on.=0A=C2-=0AI have no data on this accident and doubt
I or we will get much other than stall spin accident.=0A=C2-=0AMy flight
test comments are as follows:=0AWe know that in the preflight phase, Annex
E for wing angles/tail plane angles and control throws=C2-is not enough.
=C2- Retract=C2-tests are essential to verify gear lock, flap position/
operation, and outrigger lock=C2-operates full proof. =C2-The engine an
d fuel system must be bullet proof at level and max angle nose up.=C2- Th
e fuel system must be able to go from empty to fully primed at max angle wi
th only 5 gallons total (the main and reserve side holding 2.5 each across
the saddle) in=C2-5 seconds or less.=C2- Complete Wt. and Balance and a
review of max forward, aft and test flight loads and CGs verified on the W
t and Bal form.=C2- (I normally will fly with a minimum of 10 gallons US
on test flights.)=C2- The engine must run flawlessly idle to full and not
overheat on the ground for 20-25 minutes running at summer time temps.=0A
=C2-=0AThe electrical system must be able to handle the load, and if ther
e is a cockpit smoke situation, battery off, the engine must run with ignit
ion only.=C2- (914s don't forget the Aux pump operation.)=0A=C2-=0AAll
engine instruments and flight instruments/equipment (pitot and static) must
be verified for accuracy and operation prior to flight. (Read as no red li
ght distractions on takeoff or funky airspeed and altitude indications).=C2
- Trim must be checked and verified operational.=0A=C2-=0AAll aux syste
ms must be operational or placarded and left off. (Radio is a must, Transpo
nder is often required, ELT operational, (I turn AOA and Autopilots off).
=0A=C2-=0AThe night before, I chair fly and prepare for the flight.=C2-
I go over aircraft systems, test parameters, panel layout and specifics of
complex electrical systems.=0A=C2-=0AFlight one is 15 minutes to check f
or runs drips and errors.=C2- (Immediate acceleration to 75 and climb at
90.) (Normally I can fly one of our planes hands off, feet only,=C2-half
way down the 4000 foot strip above 50 feet.)=C2-Climb to 2500 feet or so
and check the=C2-trim and rig from 70 to 100 Knots.=C2-=C2-Return to
the pattern,=C2-80 on downwind, no slower than 75 in the turns, and no sl
ower than 70 on final.=C2- One of two low approaches if in a mono is OK.
=C2- Land and pull the cowl and inspect.=C2-=C2- Fix any and everythi
ng you found abnormal.=0A=C2-=0AFlight two expands the envelope to check
engine climb temps and performance.=C2- Check CS prop operation, and clim
b 3 mistakes high and do A/S verification, stalls, falls and pitch and roll
stability.=C2- Typically our engines are flawless so it is only a 45 min
ute flight.=C2- If all goes well and we have good stall characteristics,
go back and review the flight.=C2-=C2- (I have needed stall strips on t
he root to get a good early burble feel prior to stall.=0A=C2-=0AOnce I a
m convinced the pilot (who has normally flown in my aircraft for about 5 ho
urs and is very current in other types) is ready, I prebrief with him and h
and him the keys for a test hop.=0A=C2-=0AHowever, I have been guilty of
flying a test flight early into the flight phase dual.=C2- Confidence in
the aircraft has to be extremely high to do this.=C2- A thorough brief of
what will happen if the engine quits on takeoff is a must.=C2- The aircr
aft is the last thing I will attempt to save.=C2- Two people flying an un
tested aircraft is too much exposure and sometimes weight.=C2- ( My rule
is the plane is not ready for test flight unless you are prepared to knock
on the test pilots door and explain her husband is dead, and there was noth
ing that you could=C2-have done to make the aircraft safer.)=0A=C2-=0AT
ypically in the flight phase we go out dual and do stalls, slow flight, adv
ance handling at minimum speeds and ascertain if the pilot is comfortable,
the stalls are predictable and easily recognized.=C2- ( I am the technica
l observer who is verifying airspeeds, pitch angles, stall buffet, system o
peration and calibration while the client flies.)=C2-=C2-This is where
the AOA, Autopilot etc.=C2-gets calibrated or rung out.=C2- =0A=C2-
=0AFrankly,=C2-my opinion is that=C2-an AOA systems in straight wing ai
rcraft is a waste of money for me and I prefer a=C2-well=C2-installed
=C2-stall strip (swept wing aircraft are different).=C2-=C2-That said
, after the 3rd 300 mile leg in 90F degree weather, sometimes it is nice to
have=C2-"Bitching Betty" remind me that I am not paying attention.=C2-
Fatigue and complacency do set in=C2-to us all.=C2-=0A=C2-=0AIf one
adds my vortex generators for STOL capability, watch your speed as the airc
raft handles so well down to 50 Knots clean, you could be falling with styl
e and not know it unless looking at the airspeed.=C2- Here is where an AO
A, Airspeed Warner like the Europa Stall indicator,=C2-and proper stall s
trip can be handy.=0A=C2-=0ARight now all I can do is pray for the famili
es heartbreak and learn from the lessons hard learned from previous=C2-ai
rcraft accidents and my own experiences.=C2-=C2- Then when appropriate,
pass on the hard learned lessons to those who may benefit.=0A=C2-=0ARega
rds to all,=0ABud=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=C2-=0A=C2
-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0A________________________________=0A
=0ADate: Sun, 11 May 2014 23:03:53 +0100=0AFrom: grahamsingleton@btinternet
.com=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa crash in L=C3=83
=C2=BCbeck/Germany=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0AGraeme=0AI was referin
g to the Classic Europa wing. The section has a slight bump just=0Aunder th
e LE which is very easily sanded off. The nose radius is also quite small,
=0Aagain easy to sand off even with a sheet of fine abrasive round the LE.A
ccurate =0Atemplates are essential and the plans version isn't accurate eno
ugh for these subtle=0Acurves. That's what was wrong with G-KWIP's wing. Al
ways dropped L wing in a flaps down=0Astall.=0AGraham=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A
=0A________________________________=0A=0AFrom:graeme bird <graeme@gdbmk.co.
uk>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 11 May 2014, 18:57=0AS
ubject: Europa-List: Re: Europa crash in L=C3=83=C2=BCbeck/Germany=0A=0A-->
Europa-List message posted by: "graeme bird" <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk>=0A=0AInt
eresting to hear that you can fly with a flap down; but for me a lot is goi
ng on just after take off, watching the gauges, the speed the VSI, changing
prop pitch, unlocking to get the wheel up and pushing the leaver with the
right hand etc - maybe the spring/tension is a bit off if its first flight,
I am not sure how I would cope if there were to be a sudden roll at that p
oint.=0A=0AYep I also value Grahams wisdom and contributions; I am just thi
nking of the message, unintentionally, its sending to current builders. The
fact is hundreds have been made by imperfect amateurs and the stall charac
teristics are one of the first things explored during the test flights.=0A
=0A--------=0AGraeme Bird=0AG-UMPY=0AMono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
=0ANewby: 105 hours 26 months on the Mono =0Ag(at)gdbmk.co.uk=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.
php?p=423188#423188=0Ap; =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- -Matt Dralle, Libution" ========0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2
-=0A=C2-=0A============0Atarget="_blank">http:/
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0A==========
==0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0A============0A=
"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A========
====0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2- - The Europa-List Email Forum -=0A--> http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0A=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -=0A--
> http://forums.matronics.com=0A =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- - List Contribution Web Site -=0AThank you f
or your generous support!=0A=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- -Matt Dralle, List A
=======
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: o-8859-1?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_Re:_Europa-List:_RE:_Europa-List:_Re:_Eur?= |
=?iso-8859-1?Q?opa-List:_Re:_Europa_crash_in_L=C3=BCbeck/Germany?
Graham,
I have the VG test flight and a proposed install manual that went
nowhere at Europa on my website today.
(www.customflightcreations.com<http://www.customflightcreations.com/>
click on techniques articles.) I had a manufacturer make the VGs with a
curve on the bottom to fit the wing. I also use a 3M glue that doesn't
make a mess and you can reposition them or if you don't like them, pull
them off with no paint damage. Right now I am finishing Cooling 102 for
the Jabiru installers and trying to finish a really screwed up airplane.
I hate redo's. Enough complaining. On to VGs.
On your canards, I believe the VGs are a must for better pitch control
and on swept wings keep the ailerons corraled.
On the Europa, VGs do slow you down about 10 knots but since I don't run
around at max continuous doing 146 Knots and burning tons of gas, that
doesn't bother me that much. I have had the VGs off for the last two
years while I redo some propeller testing for Airmaster and frankly my
wheel pants are too low for rough grass so I've stopped STOL / LSA
testing. The trigear really doesn't like bumpy rough grass strips so I
need to get back to testing on grass so I can get a feel for if I need
larger tires.
I only put the VGs on the upper surface of the wing. I must admit that
I thought about changing the stop imits of my stab and putting the VGs
on it as well, but right now with the VGs on the wing only, my poor old
classic has scrape marks on the rudder and spats from the asphalt and I
still have stick left at 40 KIAS (CG at 60, +13 up -5 down on stab.)
What it does, is allow me to give someone with an unfinished kit the
ability to lower his clean stall to 45KIAS, and with a 912ULS or Jabiru
fitted with a fixed pitch prop set at a bit of a mid range, to meet the
LSA stall and max continuous power cruise requirement of 120 (well maybe
a knot or two more depending on pitch).
For those whose short or rough field woes give them worries, the VGs
allow better low speed control, and a lower approach and touchdown
speed. The lower touchdown speed and keeping the nose wheel off the
turf is critical and without VGs on the stab I can keep the nose up on
12AY but on some really forward CG aircraft, VGs on the stab and a bit
of up stab tuning may be necessary. As tested, the aircraft is quite
comfortable slow flighting very close to the stall with supurb aileron
and pitch control, but the deck angle is a bit high on a dragged in
approach. With VGs I can fly a normal 3 degree flight path or steeper
at 55 or so and see my touchdown point and cross the threshold at 45-50
and have enough power and control to flare out to a 40 knot touchdown.
Alas, the mono's deck angle is so low that you can't land as slow as a
trigear, but it sure makes getting the tail wheel down first easier with
better roll control should things go a bit askew.
Read over my two attachments on the techniques articles on my site. At
$130 plus shipping it's a cheap experiment (with lots of extra VGs
should you want more to put on the stab) and a lot cheaper than adding
wing area or trying to build a new classic wing to get the weight down
or change the camber for STOL performance.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON<mailto:grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 9:42 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List: Re:
Europa-List: Re: Europa crash in L=C3=BCbeck/Germany
Bud
excellent letter. I am most interested in your VG installation. Did
you fit to botn wing and tail?
I fitted them to my Long EZ and was delighted with the improvement in
low speed handling.
Graham
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@msn.com>>
To: europa-list
<europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>>
Sent: Monday, 12 May 2014, 5:28
Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa
crash in L=C3=BCbeck/Germany
Graham and others.
Good comment on the leading edge curve. My Classic wing has that
slight cup sanded and filled off by my painter. It has a bit of a sharp
stall like a normal series 6 airfoil.
On the accident comments:
I hate to speculate, but the accident investigator training and
extensive flight envelope expanding time I have acquired, leads me to
use caution speculating at this time and to causes and early on
assumptions on should have had equipment, etc.
The initial test phase of the Europa (or any aircraft) needs to make
sure it is made in baby steps.
After building 18 aircraft 15 of which are Europas (yes I am starting
our 16th Europa in the shop) and test flying many other owners aircraft,
many things can cause a takeoff leg stall spin type accident.
My last call from a US accident inspector was a very long time ago.
Here is what we discussed on a takeoff leg, attempted turn back and high
angle impact deadly crash of an experienced pilot and seasoned aircraft.
Off the top of my fuzzy balding head:
On takeoff the Europa has a very good rate of climb and deck angle.
In testing of 12AY (a Classic) with 914, the full flap takeoff has a
deck angle of 10 degrees (and about a 12.5 degree angle of attack) at 55
Knots. When pulling the power back abruptly during test, at 55 knots, I
found only 3 seconds with the nose up pushed me into the stall warning.
Since the full flap approach angle power of the my old Classic is
about 8 degrees glide slope or so, one can see that it requires a 13
degree push over to try to preserve airspeed and control.
Lesson for everybody: Recovery from a takeoff engine failure requires
an aggressive nose down push to preserve airspeed.
Clean, it wasn't much better, in fact with the 914 at 65 knots the
deck angle is close to 15 degrees and the results were a very rapid
bleed off unless a push over to nose slightly below the horizon (about
5 degrees) was necessary to preserve airspeed.
To the comments on the web regarding AOA and flight testing:
A new pilot checking his aircraft out is not safe by adding equipment
to help determine his AOA. These systems require calibration and
testing. I doubt these folks had time to test and calibrate aircraft
systems in flight test yet. Un-calibrated equipment often times leads
to more cockpit distractions early on.
I have no data on this accident and doubt I or we will get much other
than stall spin accident.
My flight test comments are as follows:
We know that in the preflight phase, Annex E for wing angles/tail
plane angles and control throws is not enough. Retract tests are
essential to verify gear lock, flap position/operation, and outrigger
lock operates full proof. The engine and fuel system must be bullet
proof at level and max angle nose up. The fuel system must be able to
go from empty to fully primed at max angle with only 5 gallons total
(the main and reserve side holding 2.5 each across the saddle) in 5
seconds or less. Complete Wt. and Balance and a review of max forward,
aft and test flight loads and CGs verified on the Wt and Bal form. (I
normally will fly with a minimum of 10 gallons US on test flights.) The
engine must run flawlessly idle to full and not overheat on the ground
for 20-25 minutes running at summer time temps.
The electrical system must be able to handle the load, and if there is
a cockpit smoke situation, battery off, the engine must run with
ignition only. (914s don't forget the Aux pump operation.)
All engine instruments and flight instruments/equipment (pitot and
static) must be verified for accuracy and operation prior to flight.
(Read as no red light distractions on takeoff or funky airspeed and
altitude indications). Trim must be checked and verified operational.
All aux systems must be operational or placarded and left off. (Radio
is a must, Transponder is often required, ELT operational, (I turn AOA
and Autopilots off).
The night before, I chair fly and prepare for the flight. I go over
aircraft systems, test parameters, panel layout and specifics of complex
electrical systems.
Flight one is 15 minutes to check for runs drips and errors.
(Immediate acceleration to 75 and climb at 90.) (Normally I can fly one
of our planes hands off, feet only, half way down the 4000 foot strip
above 50 feet.) Climb to 2500 feet or so and check the trim and rig from
70 to 100 Knots. Return to the pattern, 80 on downwind, no slower than
75 in the turns, and no slower than 70 on final. One of two low
approaches if in a mono is OK. Land and pull the cowl and inspect.
Fix any and everything you found abnormal.
Flight two expands the envelope to check engine climb temps and
performance. Check CS prop operation, and climb 3 mistakes high and do
A/S verification, stalls, falls and pitch and roll stability. Typically
our engines are flawless so it is only a 45 minute flight. If all goes
well and we have good stall characteristics, go back and review the
flight. (I have needed stall strips on the root to get a good early
burble feel prior to stall.
Once I am convinced the pilot (who has normally flown in my aircraft
for about 5 hours and is very current in other types) is ready, I
prebrief with him and hand him the keys for a test hop.
However, I have been guilty of flying a test flight early into the
flight phase dual. Confidence in the aircraft has to be extremely high
to do this. A thorough brief of what will happen if the engine quits on
takeoff is a must. The aircraft is the last thing I will attempt to
save. Two people flying an untested aircraft is too much exposure and
sometimes weight. ( My rule is the plane is not ready for test flight
unless you are prepared to knock on the test pilots door and explain her
husband is dead, and there was nothing that you could have done to make
the aircraft safer.)
Typically in the flight phase we go out dual and do stalls, slow
flight, advance handling at minimum speeds and ascertain if the pilot is
comfortable, the stalls are predictable and easily recognized. ( I am
the technical observer who is verifying airspeeds, pitch angles, stall
buffet, system operation and calibration while the client flies.) This
is where the AOA, Autopilot etc. gets calibrated or rung out.
Frankly, my opinion is that an AOA systems in straight wing aircraft
is a waste of money for me and I prefer a well installed stall strip
(swept wing aircraft are different). That said, after the 3rd 300 mile
leg in 90F degree weather, sometimes it is nice to have "Bitching Betty"
remind me that I am not paying attention. Fatigue and complacency do
set in to us all.
If one adds my vortex generators for STOL capability, watch your speed
as the aircraft handles so well down to 50 Knots clean, you could be
falling with style and not know it unless looking at the airspeed. Here
is where an AOA, Airspeed Warner like the Europa Stall indicator, and
proper stall strip can be handy.
Right now all I can do is pray for the families heartbreak and learn
from the lessons hard learned from previous aircraft accidents and my
own experiences. Then when appropriate, pass on the hard learned
lessons to those who may benefit.
Regards to all,
Bud
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 23:03:53 +0100
From: grahamsingleton@btinternet.com
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa crash in
L=C3=BCbeck/Germany
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Graeme
I was refering to the Classic Europa wing. The section has a slight
bump just
under the LE which is very easily sanded off. The nose radius is also
quite small,
again easy to sand off even with a sheet of fine abrasive round the
LE.Accurate
templates are essential and the plans version isn't accurate enough
for these subtle
curves. That's what was wrong with G-KWIP's wing. Always dropped L
wing in a flaps down
stall.
Graham
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: graeme bird <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk>
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, 11 May 2014, 18:57
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa crash in L=C3=BCbeck/Germany
<graeme@gdbmk.co.uk<mailto:graeme@gdbmk.co.uk>>
Interesting to hear that you can fly with a flap down; but for me a
lot is going on just after take off, watching the gauges, the speed the
VSI, changing prop pitch, unlocking to get the wheel up and pushing the
leaver with the right hand etc - maybe the spring/tension is a bit off
if its first flight, I am not sure how I would cope if there were to be
a sudden roll at that point.
Yep I also value Grahams wisdom and contributions; I am just thinking
of the message, unintentionally, its sending to current builders. The
fact is hundreds have been made by imperfect amateurs and the stall
characteristics are one of the first things explored during the test
flights.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 105 hours 26 months on the Mono
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423188#423188<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423188#423188>
p; -Matt Dralle, Libution" ======
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
http://forums.matronics.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ank"
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.mat"no
follow" target="_blank"
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://f=========
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: O-8859-1?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_RE:_Europa-List:_Re:_Euro?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?pa-List:_Re:_Europa_crash_in_L=C3=BCbeck/Germany? |
Mac
Send me photos.
Radiator ducting
Any firewall forward mods.
Coolant type
Engine type and prop.
Firewall location
We will put our heads together and solve it.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
"Max Cointe (Free)" <mcointe@free.fr> wrote:
Hi Bud=2C
A lot of respect for your knowledge about flying (safely) in general and
building and flying Europa=99s in particular.
The only point in your list which I can=99t execute belongs to temp i
n summer:
always cooling problems on ground and have to be cautious as soon as hot
weather comes
Max Cointe
<mailto:mcointe@free.fr> mcointe@free.fr
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours
F-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1600 heures
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Bud Yerly
Envoy=C3=A9 : lundi 12 mai 2014 06:29
=C3 : europa-list
Objet : Europa-List: RE: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa crash in
L=C3=83=C2=BCbeck/Germany
Graham and others.
Good comment on the leading edge curve. My Classic wing has that slight cu
p
sanded and filled off by my painter. It has a bit of a sharp stall like a
normal series 6 airfoil.
On the accident comments:
I hate to speculate=2C but the accident investigator training and extensive
flight envelope expanding time I have acquired=2C leads me to use caution
speculating at this time and to causes and early on assumptions on should
have had equipment=2C etc.
The initial test phase of the Europa (or any aircraft) needs to make sure i
t
is made in baby steps.
After building 18 aircraft 15 of which are Europas (yes I am starting our
16th Europa in the shop) and test flying many other owners aircraft=2C many
things can cause a takeoff leg stall spin type accident.
My last call from a US accident inspector was a very long time ago. Here i
s
what we discussed on a takeoff leg=2C attempted turn back and high angle
impact deadly crash of an experienced pilot and seasoned aircraft.
Off the top of my fuzzy balding head:
On takeoff the Europa has a very good rate of climb and deck angle. In
testing of 12AY (a Classic) with 914=2C the full flap takeoff has a deck an
gle
of 10 degrees (and about a 12.5 degree angle of attack) at 55 Knots. When
pulling the power back abruptly during test=2C at 55 knots=2C I found only
3
seconds with the nose up pushed me into the stall warning.
Since the full flap approach angle power of the my old Classic is about 8
degrees glide slope or so=2C one can see that it requires a 13 degree push
over to try to preserve airspeed and control.
Lesson for everybody: Recovery from a takeoff engine failure requires an
aggressive nose down push to preserve airspeed.
Clean=2C it wasn't much better=2C in fact with the 914 at 65 knots the deck
angle is close to 15 degrees and the results were a very rapid bleed off
unless a push over to nose slightly below the horizon (about 5 degrees) wa
s
necessary to preserve airspeed.
To the comments on the web regarding AOA and flight testing:
A new pilot checking his aircraft out is not safe by adding equipment to
help determine his AOA. These systems require calibration and testing. I
doubt these folks had time to test and calibrate aircraft systems in flight
test yet. Un-calibrated equipment often times leads to more cockpit
distractions early on.
I have no data on this accident and doubt I or we will get much other than
stall spin accident.
My flight test comments are as follows:
We know that in the preflight phase=2C Annex E for wing angles/tail plane
angles and control throws is not enough. Retract tests are essential to
verify gear lock=2C flap position/operation=2C and outrigger lock operates
full
proof. The engine and fuel system must be bullet proof at level and max
angle nose up. The fuel system must be able to go from empty to fully
primed at max angle with only 5 gallons total (the main and reserve side
holding 2.5 each across the saddle) in 5 seconds or less. Complete Wt. and
Balance and a review of max forward=2C aft and test flight loads and CGs
verified on the Wt and Bal form. (I normally will fly with a minimum of 10
gallons US on test flights.) The engine must run flawlessly idle to full
and not overheat on the ground for 20-25 minutes running at summer time
temps.
The electrical system must be able to handle the load=2C and if there is a
cockpit smoke situation=2C battery off=2C the engine must run with ignition
only. (914s don't forget the Aux pump operation.)
All engine instruments and flight instruments/equipment (pitot and static)
must be verified for accuracy and operation prior to flight. (Read as no re
d
light distractions on takeoff or funky airspeed and altitude indications).
Trim must be checked and verified operational.
All aux systems must be operational or placarded and left off. (Radio is a
must=2C Transponder is often required=2C ELT operational=2C (I turn AOA and
Autopilots off).
The night before=2C I chair fly and prepare for the flight. I go over
aircraft systems=2C test parameters=2C panel layout and specifics of comple
x
electrical systems.
Flight one is 15 minutes to check for runs drips and errors. (Immediate
acceleration to 75 and climb at 90.) (Normally I can fly one of our planes
hands off=2C feet only=2C half way down the 4000 foot strip above 50 feet.)
Climb to 2500 feet or so and check the trim and rig from 70 to 100 Knots.
Return to the pattern=2C 80 on downwind=2C no slower than 75 in the turns
=2C and
no slower than 70 on final. One of two low approaches if in a mono is OK.
Land and pull the cowl and inspect. Fix any and everything you found
abnormal.
Flight two expands the envelope to check engine climb temps and performance
.
Check CS prop operation=2C and climb 3 mistakes high and do A/S verificatio
n=2C
stalls=2C falls and pitch and roll stability. Typically our engines are
flawless so it is only a 45 minute flight. If all goes well and we have
good stall characteristics=2C go back and review the flight. (I have need
ed
stall strips on the root to get a good early burble feel prior to stall.
Once I am convinced the pilot (who has normally flown in my aircraft for
about 5 hours and is very current in other types) is ready=2C I prebrief wi
th
him and hand him the keys for a test hop.
However=2C I have been guilty of flying a test flight early into the flight
phase dual. Confidence in the aircraft has to be extremely high to do this
.
A thorough brief of what will happen if the engine quits on takeoff is a
must. The aircraft is the last thing I will attempt to save. Two people
flying an untested aircraft is too much exposure and sometimes weight. ( M
y
rule is the plane is not ready for test flight unless you are prepared to
knock on the test pilots door and explain her husband is dead=2C and there
was
nothing that you could have done to make the aircraft safer.)
Typically in the flight phase we go out dual and do stalls=2C slow flight
=2C
advance handling at minimum speeds and ascertain if the pilot is
comfortable=2C the stalls are predictable and easily recognized. ( I am th
e
technical observer who is verifying airspeeds=2C pitch angles=2C stall buff
et=2C
system operation and calibration while the client flies.) This is where th
e
AOA=2C Autopilot etc. gets calibrated or rung out.
Frankly=2C my opinion is that an AOA systems in straight wing aircraft is a
waste of money for me and I prefer a well installed stall strip (swept wing
aircraft are different). That said=2C after the 3rd 300 mile leg in 90F
degree weather=2C sometimes it is nice to have "Bitching Betty" remind me t
hat
I am not paying attention. Fatigue and complacency do set in to us all.
If one adds my vortex generators for STOL capability=2C watch your speed as
the aircraft handles so well down to 50 Knots clean=2C you could be falling
with style and not know it unless looking at the airspeed. Here is where a
n
AOA=2C Airspeed Warner like the Europa Stall indicator=2C and proper stall
strip
can be handy.
Right now all I can do is pray for the families heartbreak and learn from
the lessons hard learned from previous aircraft accidents and my own
experiences. Then when appropriate=2C pass on the hard learned lessons to
those who may benefit.
Regards to all=2C
Bud
_____
From: grahamsingleton@btinternet.com
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa crash in L=C3=83=C2=BCbec
k/Germany
Graeme
I was refering to the Classic Europa wing. The section has a slight bump
just
under the LE which is very easily sanded off. The nose radius is also quite
small=2C
again easy to sand off even with a sheet of fine abrasive round the
LE.Accurate
templates are essential and the plans version isn't accurate enough for
these subtle
curves. That's what was wrong with G-KWIP's wing. Always dropped L wing in
a
flaps down
stall.
Graham
_____
From: graeme bird <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk>
Sent: Sunday=2C 11 May 2014=2C 18:57
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa crash in L=C3=83=C2=BCbeck/Germany
Interesting to hear that you can fly with a flap down=3B but for me a lot i
s
going on just after take off=2C watching the gauges=2C the speed the VSI=2C
changing prop pitch=2C unlocking to get the wheel up and pushing the leaver
with the right hand etc - maybe the spring/tension is a bit off if its firs
t
flight=2C I am not sure how I would cope if there were to be a sudden roll
at
that point.
Yep I also value Grahams wisdom and contributions=3B I am just thinking of
the
message=2C unintentionally=2C its sending to current builders. The fact is
hundreds have been made by imperfect amateurs and the stall characteristics
are one of the first things explored during the test flights.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 105 hours 26 months on the Mono
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423188#423188
p=3B -Matt Dralle=2C Libution" ======
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
http://forums.matronics.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|