---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/21/14: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:32 AM - Electrical Wiring (Tony Renshaw) 2. 02:49 AM - Re: Electrical Wiring (richard) 3. 03:03 AM - Re: Electrical Wiring (Tony Renshaw) 4. 03:25 AM - Re: Electrical Wiring (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 5. 03:37 AM - Re: Electrical Wiring (david park) 6. 07:10 AM - Re: Electrical Wiring (Fred Klein) 7. 07:41 AM - Re: Electrical Wiring (Bob Harrison) 8. 09:55 AM - Re: Electrical Wiring (David Joyce) 9. 12:52 PM - Re: Electrical Wiring (Fred Klein) 10. 01:10 PM - Re: Electrical Wiring (Bob Harrison) 11. 01:29 PM - Re: Electrical Wiring (Fred Klein) 12. 01:41 PM - Re: Electrical Wiring (Donald Cameron) 13. 03:07 PM - Re: Electrical Wiring (Fred Klein) 14. 05:03 PM - Re: Electrical Wiring (Robert Borger) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:51 AM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring Gidday, I am interested in what is the correct or preferred connector for the small wires in the RayAllen Servo wire bundles etc., the small dia cabling of many devices. Im sure there are some better than others, but I currently dont know any, albeit a ACS catalogue could narrow it down. So far, I have tried D sub terminals, as they are easy to get and easy to solder. Should I stick with them?? regards Tony Renshaw ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:18 AM PST US From: "richard" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring Yes Tony , I mounted a D socket on to the servo body so that I could remove it for service in the future, its a bugger of a place to get at. The other end tails go straight to the switch and indicator. Best of luck Richard -----Original Message----- From: Tony Renshaw Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:32 AM Subject: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring Gidday, I am interested in what is the correct or preferred connector for the small wires in the RayAllen Servo wire bundles etc., the small dia cabling of many devices. Im sure there are some better than others, but I currently dont know any, albeit a ACS catalogue could narrow it down. So far, I have tried D sub terminals, as they are easy to get and easy to solder. Should I stick with them?? regards Tony Renshaw ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring From: Tony Renshaw Hi Richard, Other than the multi core wire of the servos, is there suggestions for connecting the very thin wires together, other than D sub connectors. Regards Tony Renshaw On 21 May 2014, at 7:48 pm, richard wrote: > > Yes Tony , I mounted a D socket on to the servo body so that I could remove it for service in the future, its a bugger of a place to get at. The other end tails go straight to the switch and indicator. > Best of luck > Richard > -----Original Message----- From: Tony Renshaw > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:32 AM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring > > > Gidday, > I am interested in what is the correct or preferred connector for the small wires in the RayAllen Servo wire bundles etc., the small dia cabling of many devices. Im sure there are some better than others, but I currently dont know any, albeit a ACS catalogue could narrow it down. So far, I have tried D sub terminals, as they are easy to get and easy to solder. Should I stick with them?? > regards > Tony Renshaw > > > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:25:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Tony I used shielded wire and stagger soldered the connections and left a service loop that allows easily access and replacement if ever needed through an inspection hole and if it fails on a trip far from home, I marked the wires so I can jog to neutral trim with a 9 volt battery: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=30484 I used nutplates and Allen screws that will allow removal of the servo with a ball end Allen. If you absolutely want to use a connector, Bob from Aeroelectric has directions how to use a D-Sub connector with no housing, strain relieve the wires with some clear goop, something like Shoe Goo or a name with 6000 in it, don't use stink silicone it can corrode things, no stink is probably OK although Shoe Goo is pretty good stuff, then use a piece of heat shrink to hold the two halves of the connector together. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:37:41 AM PST US From: david park Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring Here is a pic of the connector mounted fwd of the trim motor. Regards David Park dpark748@hotmail.co.uk On 21 May 2014, at 11:03, Tony Renshaw wrote: > > Hi Richard, > Other than the multi core wire of the servos, is there suggestions for connecting the very thin wires together, other than D sub connectors. > Regards > Tony Renshaw > > On 21 May 2014, at 7:48 pm, richard wrote: > >> >> Yes Tony , I mounted a D socket on to the servo body so that I could remove it for service in the future, its a bugger of a place to get at. The other end tails go straight to the switch and indicator. >> Best of luck >> Richard >> -----Original Message----- From: Tony Renshaw >> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:32 AM >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring >> >> >> Gidday, >> I am interested in what is the correct or preferred connector for the small wires in the RayAllen Servo wire bundles etc., the small dia cabling of many devices. I=92m sure there are some better than others, but I currently don=92t know any, albeit a ACS catalogue could narrow it down. So far, I have tried D sub terminals, as they are easy to get and easy to solder. Should I stick with them?? >> regards >> Tony Renshaw >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:52 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring On May 21, 2014, at 2:32 AM, Tony Renshaw wrote: > I am interested in what is the correct or preferred connector for the small wires in the RayAllen Servo wire bundles etc., the small dia cabling of many devices. I=92m sure there are some better than others, but I currently don=92t know any, albeit a ACS catalogue could narrow it down. So far, I have tried D sub terminals, as they are easy to get and easy to solder. Should I stick with them?? Tony=85At that stage of the build, I was not comfortable w/ using D sub terminals and questioned my ability to disconnect them w/ one hand=85I used this AMP connector w/ the larger, crimped pins=85I also floxed the nuts on the back face of the bulkhead which hold the servo in position, though I=92d use nut plates were I to do it again=85Fred ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:26 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring Attention Fred Klein . Whilst I am not wishing to "enter the fray" about the issue of connectors it occurs to me having looked at your photo of your servo and the plastic clevises to ask if you have shortened them before connecting them with the piece of threaded rod? You are headed for some hassle if you haven't, since you won't get enough trim through the operating range of the Stabilators without the bottom clevis fouling up on the operating lever at the end of the travel range.. ( I think that was the best description of the problem but check it out Fred before you close it up with the top on!) Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein Sent: 21 May 2014 15:10 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring On May 21, 2014, at 2:32 AM, Tony Renshaw wrote: I am interested in what is the correct or preferred connector for the small wires in the RayAllen Servo wire bundles etc., the small dia cabling of many devices. I'm sure there are some better than others, but I currently don't know any, albeit a ACS catalogue could narrow it down. So far, I have tried D sub terminals, as they are easy to get and easy to solder. Should I stick with them?? Tony.At that stage of the build, I was not comfortable w/ using D sub terminals and questioned my ability to disconnect them w/ one hand.I used this AMP connector w/ the larger, crimped pins.I also floxed the nuts on the back face of the bulkhead which hold the servo in position, though I'd use nut plates were I to do it again.Fred ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:55:44 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring I have just tried to replace my servo before discovering that the fault lay in one of the connectors in an awkward position behind the panel (actually a snapped wire going into a crimped pin). In speaking to the guy at Ray Allen, he was v. Surprised to hear that the servo had packed up, and implied that they just don't do that even after as many hours service as mine - and he proved correct when I released the wiring and retested it. My advice would be to solder the wires at the servo end to the same coloured wires in the multicore cable also supplied by Ray Allen, supporting individual joins and the whole bundle with heatshrink and also supporting the cable near to the servo, etc. I feel this is less likely to cause problems than a connector, and in the very unlikely event that you do need to replace the servo, replacing soldered joints is no great issue. Incidentally I have a brand new servo still in its original sealed pack should anyone need one! Regards, David Joyce, G- XSDJ On Wed, 21 May 2014 07:09:54 -0700 Fred Klein wrote: > > On May 21, 2014, at 2:32 AM, Tony Renshaw > wrote: > >> I am interested in what is the correct or preferred >>connector for the small wires in the RayAllen Servo wire >>bundles etc., the small dia cabling of many devices. Im >>sure there are some better than others, but I currently >>dont know any, albeit a ACS catalogue could narrow it >>down. So far, I have tried D sub terminals, as they are >>easy to get and easy to solder. Should I stick with >>them?? > > TonyAt that stage of the build, I was not comfortable >w/ using D sub terminals and questioned my ability to >disconnect them w/ one handI used this AMP connector w/ >the larger, crimped pinsI also floxed the nuts on the >back face of the bulkhead which hold the servo in >position, though Id use nut plates were I to do it >againFred > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:10 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring On May 21, 2014, at 7:40 AM, Bob Harrison wrote: > it occurs to me having looked at your photo of your servo and the plastic clevises to ask if you have shortened them before connecting them with the piece of threaded rod? You are headed for some hassle if you haven=92t, since you won=92t get enough trim through the operating range of the Stabilators without the bottom clevis fouling up on the operating lever at the end of the travel range.. ( I think that was the best description of the problem but check it out Fred before you close it up with the top on!) Bob, Thank you for taking a close look at my build photo=85as I read your post, you=92re asking if I have shortened the plastic clevises. =46rom the XS build manual, I read: > Cut off a 32 mm (11/4=93) piece of the threaded rod and screw on the two plastic fork-ends until they are butted together I read nothing about shortening the plastic clevises; rather, it appears to me that the intent of the instructions is to ensure that the shortened length of threaded rod allows for the plastic fork-ends to abut one another. My top has been bonded on for several years, so you raise a possible issue of some significance. Have I missed a bit of Europa-lore which never made it into print in the manual?=85or what? All comments appreciated, Fred ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:06 PM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring Hi! Fred, Better check with another "oracle" then but I remember first sizing the clevises and then making the threaded rod to fit. What you need to do is operate the trim motor to it's full travel position both ways to ensure that the lever they are driving doesn't foul up on the root of the clevis before the motor stops. Sorry if I may have caused some confusion but I recall needing to size the clevises first and yours are clearly to be seen untouched? Of Course all these years on things may have changed. But it is interesting no one else has commented? Regards Bob H G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein Sent: 21 May 2014 20:51 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring On May 21, 2014, at 7:40 AM, Bob Harrison wrote: it occurs to me having looked at your photo of your servo and the plastic clevises to ask if you have shortened them before connecting them with the piece of threaded rod? You are headed for some hassle if you haven't, since you won't get enough trim through the operating range of the Stabilators without the bottom clevis fouling up on the operating lever at the end of the travel range.. ( I think that was the best description of the problem but check it out Fred before you close it up with the top on!) Bob, Thank you for taking a close look at my build photo.as I read your post, you're asking if I have shortened the plastic clevises. >From the XS build manual, I read: Cut off a 32 mm (11/4") piece of the threaded rod and screw on the two plastic fork-ends until they are butted together I read nothing about shortening the plastic clevises; rather, it appears to me that the intent of the instructions is to ensure that the shortened length of threaded rod allows for the plastic fork-ends to abut one another. My top has been bonded on for several years, so you raise a possible issue of some significance. Have I missed a bit of Europa-lore which never made it into print in the manual?.or what? All comments appreciated, Fred ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:16 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring Bob=85I do recall using a 9v. battery to check for full travel=85I=92ll be interested to hear whether other listers found it necessary...as you apparently did=85to trim the plastic fork-ends in order to avoid a =93foul up on the root of the clevis before the motor stops=94=85Fred On May 21, 2014, at 1:09 PM, Bob Harrison wrote: > Hi! Fred, > Better check with another =93oracle=94 then but I remember first sizing the clevises and then making the threaded rod to fit. What you need to do is operate the trim motor to it=92s full travel position both ways to ensure that the lever they are driving doesn=92t foul up on the root of the clevis before the motor stops. > Sorry if I may have caused some confusion but I recall needing to size the clevises first and yours are clearly to be seen untouched? Of Course all these years on things may have changed. But it is interesting no one else has commented? > Regards > Bob H G-PTAG > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein > Sent: 21 May 2014 20:51 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring > > > On May 21, 2014, at 7:40 AM, Bob Harrison wrote: > > > it occurs to me having looked at your photo of your servo and the plastic clevises to ask if you have shortened them before connecting them with the piece of threaded rod? You are headed for some hassle if you haven=92t, since you won=92t get enough trim through the operating range of the Stabilators without the bottom clevis fouling up on the operating lever at the end of the travel range.. ( I think that was the best description of the problem but check it out Fred before you close it up with the top on!) > > Bob, > > Thank you for taking a close look at my build photo=85as I read your post, you=92re asking if I have shortened the plastic clevises. > > =46rom the XS build manual, I read: > > Cut off a 32 mm (11/4=93) piece of the threaded rod and screw on the two plastic fork-ends until they are butted together > > I read nothing about shortening the plastic clevises; rather, it appears to me that the intent of the instructions is to ensure that the shortened length of threaded rod allows for the plastic fork-ends to abut one another. > > My top has been bonded on for several years, so you raise a possible issue of some significance. > > Have I missed a bit of Europa-lore which never made it into print in the manual?=85or what? > > All comments appreciated, > > Fred > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring From: Donald Cameron Hi Fred I think Bob might be correct. =46rom memory when i installed mine i had to s horten the fork ends. The reason being when connected to the bellcrank and you operate the servo i t can bind in one direction. You will know if its binding as it labours near the end of the travel. This check is part of the final checklist, to ensure the trim servo moves th rough its complete range with no binding at all. Hope this helps Kind regards Donald G-PUPY (nearly flying awaiting paperwork from LAA to test fly) Sent from my iPhone On 21 May 2014, at 21:28, Fred Klein wrote: > BobI do recall using a 9v. battery to check for full travel I=99ll be interested to hear whether other listers found it necessa ry...as you apparently didto trim the plastic fork-ends in order to avoid a =9Cfoul up on the root of the clevis before the motor stops =9DFred > > On May 21, 2014, at 1:09 PM, Bob Harrison wrote: > >> Hi! Fred, >> Better check with another =9Coracle=9D then but I remember fi rst sizing the clevises and then making the threaded rod to fit. What you ne ed to do is operate the trim motor to it=99s full travel position both ways to ensure that the lever they are driving doesn=99t foul up on t he root of the clevis before the motor stops. >> Sorry if I may have caused some confusion but I recall needing to size th e clevises first and yours are clearly to be seen untouched? Of Course all t hese years on things may have changed. But it is interesting no one else has commented? >> Regards >> Bob H G-PTAG >> >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-se rver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein >> Sent: 21 May 2014 20:51 >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring >> >> >> On May 21, 2014, at 7:40 AM, Bob Harrison wrote: >> >> >> it occurs to me having looked at your photo of your servo and the plasti c clevises to ask if you have shortened them before connecting them with the piece of threaded rod? You are headed for some hassle if you haven=99 t, since you won=99t get enough trim through the operating range of t he Stabilators without the bottom clevis fouling up on the operating lever at the end of the travel range.. ( I think that was the best description of the problem but check it out Fred before you close it up with the top on!) >> >> Bob, >> >> Thank you for taking a close look at my build photoas I read you r post, you=99re asking if I have shortened the plastic clevises. >> >> =46rom the XS build manual, I read: >> >> Cut off a 32 mm (11/4=9C) piece of the threaded rod and screw on th e two plastic fork-ends until they are butted together >> >> I read nothing about shortening the plastic clevises; rather, it appears t o me that the intent of the instructions is to ensure that the shortened len gth of threaded rod allows for the plastic fork-ends to abut one another. >> >> My top has been bonded on for several years, so you raise a possible issu e of some significance. >> >> Have I missed a bit of Europa-lore which never made it into print in the m anual?or what? >> >> All comments appreciated, >> >> Fred >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> http://forums.matronics.com >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Europa-List >> purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://forums.matronics.com >> style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.matronics .com/contribution >> > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:39 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring On May 21, 2014, at 1:41 PM, Donald Cameron wrote: > =46rom memory when i installed mine i had to shorten the fork ends. Don=85not exactly what I wanted to hear, but I thank you nonetheless for responding to my request=85after poking around a bit, I don=92t see any insurmountable problems to trimming my plastic clevises at this late stage of the game. Though I=92m wondering=85when you =93shorten(ed) the fork ends=94, were you trimming literally the ends of forks thru which the clevis pin fits?=85or did you shorten what I=92ll call the base of the clevis, i.e., the opposite end where the two clevises abut one another after being brought together by the threaded rod? Good luck with your paperwork=85I=92m rather envious, Fred ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical Wiring From: Robert Borger Hay Fred, Don=92t fret. I did mine just like yours: It works just fine. That=92s the way my instructions said to do it: Trim servo Step 5 Unpack the MAC electric trim servo and study all the instructions. Cut off a 32 mm (11/4=93) piece of the threaded rod and screw on the two plastic fork-ends until they are butted together. There must have been a change in the instructions somewhere along the way. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On May 21, 2014, at 5:06 PM, Fred Klein wrote: On May 21, 2014, at 1:41 PM, Donald Cameron wrote: > =46rom memory when i installed mine i had to shorten the fork ends. Don=85not exactly what I wanted to hear, but I thank you nonetheless for responding to my request=85after poking around a bit, I don=92t see any insurmountable problems to trimming my plastic clevises at this late stage of the game. Though I=92m wondering=85when you =93shorten(ed) the fork ends=94, were you trimming literally the ends of forks thru which the clevis pin fits?=85or did you shorten what I=92ll call the base of the clevis, i.e., the opposite end where the two clevises abut one another after being brought together by the threaded rod? Good luck with your paperwork=85I=92m rather envious, Fred ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.