---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/01/14: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:38 AM - Re: antennas (David Joyce) 2. 07:05 AM - Re: antennas (Bud Yerly) 3. 08:52 AM - Assistance (flyingphil2) 4. 09:09 AM - Re: Assistance (David Joyce) 5. 09:37 AM - Re: Assistance (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 6. 11:35 AM - Europa Club fly-out to Eastern Europe 14-21 June () 7. 03:55 PM - Aveo RockRack Switches.......anyone used them (Tony Renshaw) 8. 04:31 PM - SkyYiew antenna (Fred Klein) 9. 05:57 PM - Re: SkyYiew antenna (Tony Renshaw) 10. 06:00 PM - Simple Wiring Question (Tony Renshaw) 11. 07:36 PM - Re: SkyYiew antenna (Fred Klein) 12. 08:01 PM - Re: SkyYiew antenna (Tony Renshaw) 13. 08:11 PM - Re: SkyYiew antenna (Jerry Rehn) 14. 08:17 PM - Re: Re: antennas (Michel AUVRAY) 15. 08:44 PM - Re: SkyYiew antenna (Fred Klein) 16. 09:21 PM - Re: antennas (rparigoris) 17. 11:01 PM - Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 18. 11:07 PM - Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:38:31 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: antennas Craig, That sounds very interesting. Can you explain how you did it, please? David Joyce, G- XSDJ On Sun, 1 Jun 2014 09:34:30 +1000 "craig" wrote: > > > I put a full wave loop antenna in to run a hand held >scanner in mine a/c works a LOT better than the stubby >antenna > Get excellent reception afis, ground and atc at the >nearest airport about 40km away, I get nothing with the >stubby antenna > Its on about 4m of coax to get to the loop > > Regards > craig > > > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:47 AM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: antennas Craig and others. My Sportys SP400 with ear piece hooked to my headset works great at low altitude line of sight with the rubber duckie. For long range communications using a handheld radio in our IFR aircraft we use an Advanced Aircraft Electronics carbon fiber antenna ($120 US). Just add a coax to the passenger headrest and you have an easy to grab and use handheld antenna that is clear and able to go line of sight over 50 nm. VOR/Localizer operations work very well, but I wouldn't fly an approach on it. In other aircraft, the ELT becomes a pain to make a ground plane for, then make a mount for the whip antenna, then secure it, etc. I now use the AAE antenna for that also. In one aircraft, the customer asked me to put his ELT coax into the headrest and break the coax there for his handheld, just in case he needs his handheld. Not recommended, but it works. The antenna is added just behind the bulkhead (basically aligned on an angle with the bulkhead) curving along the fuselage. Works great even up to a 45 degree angle. VHF NAV antennas work very well centered on the top inside of the fuselage bent around the bulkhead. I prefer to install them just behind the doors as the curve is wider, and the reception on VOR/Localizer/GS with a splitter is excellent. Of course you can save some money and build an antenna, but to me, in 30 minutes, I'm done. Hooked up but held up until the flox cures. ( I use super glue to tack the antenna in place until the flox dries.) It takes longer to undo the D panel, and put in my belly board to slide in the rear than it takes to put the antenna in. (Don't forget to block the tail up in a trigear!) If you made your conduits large enough for upgrades, you have no problem. If you didn't, run the coax through the tunnel, along the front of the tank and up into the headrest. Secure it well as you are near cables and flight controls. Great annual project. Just my thoughts. Regards, Bud Yerly -------------------------------------------------- From: "craig" Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2014 7:34 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: antennas > > I put a full wave loop antenna in to run a hand held scanner in mine a/c > works a LOT better than the stubby antenna > Get excellent reception afis, ground and atc at the nearest airport about > 40km away, I get nothing with the stubby antenna > Its on about 4m of coax to get to the loop > > Regards > craig > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:34 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Assistance From: "flyingphil2" Hi, If one were to require some assistance** with their build, where would one go in the UK these days? Phil ** Assistance means 'a person or operation qualified in composite work who knows the Europa and can be relied upon to do a good job that will pass LAA inspection'. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424147#424147 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Assistance From: David Joyce Try Neil France Sent from my iPhone > On 1 Jun 2014, at 16:51, "flyingphil2" wrote: > > > Hi, > > If one were to require some assistance** with their build, where would one go in the UK these days? > > Phil > > > > ** Assistance means 'a person or operation qualified in composite work who knows the Europa and can be relied upon to do a good job that will pass LAA inspection'. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424147#424147 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:37:56 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Assistance email him, but please note he's good, so he's usually busy.=0AGraham=0Anfra nce@avnet.co.uk=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Dav id Joyce =0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Sunday, 1 June 2014, 17:08=0ASubject: Re: E yce =0A=0ATry Neil France =0A=0ASent from my iPho ne=0A=0A> On 1 Jun 2014, at 16:51, "flyingphil2" =0A> =0A> Hi,=0A> =0A> If one we re to require some assistance** with their build, where would one go in the UK these days?=0A> =0A> Phil=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> ** Assistance means 'a per son or operation qualified in composite work who knows the Europa and can b e relied upon to do a good job that will pass LAA inspection'.=0A> =0A> =0A > =0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronics.c om/viewtopic.php?p=424147#424147=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =========================0A =================== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:35:39 AM PST US From: Subject: Europa-List: Europa Club fly-out to Eastern Europe 14-21 June If any Europa Club members are thinking that they might like to join the planned fly out to Eastern Europe in 2 weeks' time, please would they send me an email as soon as possible, as I would like to finalise the list on Wednesday 4 June. As a reminder, the Europa Flyer (EF 80 March 2014) entry described the tour as follows: "14-21 June Krakow and Eastern Europe. This trip will aim to have 3 days in Krakow to enjoy this fascinating city, its magnificent air museum and the surrounding area, and will take in interesting places on the out and return journeys. Mike Gregory (m.j.gregory@talk21.com; 01480 451655)" Regards, Mike ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:41 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Aveo RockRack Switches.......anyone used them Gidday, I would like to ask if anyone has used these interlocking switches from Aveo? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveoRockRack.php I appreciate these switches only just fit in the switch rack beneath the panel, and am interested in your experience. Thanks. Regards Tony Renshaw ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:31:03 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Europa-List: SkyYiew antenna Ive been advised that a garmin instrument technician sez that it is optimal to have the gps antenna a good distance (he said 18 inches) away from other gps antennas as well as the electronics and instruments. Anyone flying w/ SkyView SV-250-GPS module installed?if so, Im curious as to where youve installed your SV-250 module, and if performance is acceptable; if not, where are you planning to relocate it? thanx, Fred ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: SkyYiew antenna From: Tony Renshaw Hi Fred, With that Dynon Skyview GPS EFIS setup, what are you considering for a location?? Underside of instrument panel coaming, or in the roof? Tony R. On 2 Jun 2014, at 9:30 am, Fred Klein wrote: > > Ive been advised that a garmin instrument technician sez that it is optimal to have the gps antenna a good distance (he said 18 inches) away from other gps antennas as well as the electronics and instruments. > > Anyone flying w/ SkyView SV-250-GPS module installed?if so, Im curious as to where youve installed your SV-250 module, and if performance is acceptable; if not, where are you planning to relocate it? > > thanx, > > Fred > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:02 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Simple Wiring Question Gidday, Just a quick question, is it the convention to use multi-core cabling ideally to remote locations, like the overhead panel where GPS antenna, lighting, radio speakers, headset jacks, might be located, or run a bunch of single cables? To me from a neatness point of view, single multi strand cabling would be easier, but I suppose if there is a break in a wire, youd have to replace the entire cable. Regards Tony Renshaw ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: SkyYiew antenna From: Fred Klein TonyI came within an ace of mounting it on the top of the instrument panel module, and am just now beginning to consider other optionsIm loathe to mount it on the exterior of the roofit may fit within the space of the roof and an overhead panel Ive placed in the cockpit ceiling between the doorsId prefer not to mount it back behind the D panelhmmmmmFred On Jun 1, 2014, at 5:56 PM, Tony Renshaw wrote: > > Hi Fred, > > With that Dynon Skyview GPS EFIS setup, what are you considering for a location?? Underside of instrument panel coaming, or in the roof? > > Tony R. > > > On 2 Jun 2014, at 9:30 am, Fred Klein wrote: > >> >> Ive been advised that a garmin instrument technician sez that it is optimal to have the gps antenna a good distance (he said 18 inches) away from other gps antennas as well as the electronics and instruments. >> >> Anyone flying w/ SkyView SV-250-GPS module installed?if so, Im curious as to where youve installed your SV-250 module, and if performance is acceptable; if not, where are you planning to relocate it? >> >> thanx, >> >> Fred >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:20 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: SkyYiew antenna Hi Fred, In the roof between the doors would probably be easy, and unless the GPS antenna is thicker than I imagine, it should fit. On the top of the instrument panel, I meant mounted on the underside though. Is that an option? TR Sent from my iPad > On 2 Jun 2014, at 12:36 pm, Fred Klein wrote: > > > TonyI came within an ace of mounting it on the top of the instrument panel module, and am just now beginning to consider other optionsIm loathe to mount it on the exterior of the roofit may fit within the space of the roof and an overhead panel Ive placed in the cockpit ceiling between the doorsId prefer not to mount it back behind the D panelhmmmmmFred > >> On Jun 1, 2014, at 5:56 PM, Tony Renshaw wrote: >> >> >> Hi Fred, >> >> With that Dynon Skyview GPS EFIS setup, what are you considering for a location?? Underside of instrument panel coaming, or in the roof? >> >> Tony R. >> >> >>> On 2 Jun 2014, at 9:30 am, Fred Klein wrote: >>> >>> >>> Ive been advised that a garmin instrument technician sez that it is optimal to have the gps antenna a good distance (he said 18 inches) away from other gps antennas as well as the electronics and instruments. >>> >>> Anyone flying w/ SkyView SV-250-GPS module installed?if so, Im curious as to where youve installed your SV-250 module, and if performance is acceptable; if not, where are you planning to relocate it? >>> >>> thanx, >>> >>> Fred > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:52 PM PST US From: Jerry Rehn Subject: Re: Europa-List: SkyYiew antenna Fred I have had a panel mounted Garmin GPS at the top of my radio stack with the remote gps antenna mounted just behind it over the radio stack under the top of instrument panel. Another ADS-B on top of the tray with GPS. Also a remote GPS moving map suction cup mounted to the windscreen port side. Never had a problem with any of them. Great reception from all. Run them together. I am visiting you soon, been flying nearly every day! Regards Jerry Sent from my iPad > On Jun 1, 2014, at 7:36 PM, Fred Klein wrote: > > > TonyI came within an ace of mounting it on the top of the instrument panel module, and am just now beginning to consider other optionsIm loathe to mount it on the exterior of the roofit may fit within the space of the roof and an overhead panel Ive placed in the cockpit ceiling between the doorsId prefer not to mount it back behind the D panelhmmmmmFred > >> On Jun 1, 2014, at 5:56 PM, Tony Renshaw wrote: >> >> >> Hi Fred, >> >> With that Dynon Skyview GPS EFIS setup, what are you considering for a location?? Underside of instrument panel coaming, or in the roof? >> >> Tony R. >> >> >>> On 2 Jun 2014, at 9:30 am, Fred Klein wrote: >>> >>> >>> Ive been advised that a garmin instrument technician sez that it is optimal to have the gps antenna a good distance (he said 18 inches) away from other gps antennas as well as the electronics and instruments. >>> >>> Anyone flying w/ SkyView SV-250-GPS module installed?if so, Im curious as to where youve installed your SV-250 module, and if performance is acceptable; if not, where are you planning to relocate it? >>> >>> thanx, >>> >>> Fred > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:55 PM PST US From: Michel AUVRAY Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: antennas Hi Ron, Do you have exact drawing and size of your antenna available? Many thanks Michel AUVRAY Builder 145 - 550 hours fly On 30/05/2014 17:51, rparigoris wrote: > > Hi David > > The rubber duckie antenna is not all that good of an antenna. I have fooled with extending mine aft on the Europa and reception on the ground and performance was poor at best, no worst than when it was directly on the unit. > > A better solution for me was AAE and Balsa. It ends up weighing under 4 oz. and works about 70% as well for both VOR and Communication. > > http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=31216 > > Ron Parigoris > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424Hi Ron, > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: SkyYiew antenna From: Fred Klein Tonythe SV-250-GPS is a little puck which is 3/4 thick, plus it has a wire directly out its underside which is set in masticthis will need about a quarter inch to bend around, so an inch space should do the trickleave it to me to have made my overhead panel a bit concave so it will be tight...thanks for the ideaFred On Jun 1, 2014, at 8:00 PM, Tony Renshaw wrote: > > Hi Fred, > In the roof between the doors would probably be easy, and unless the GPS antenna is thicker than I imagine, it should fit. On the top of the instrument panel, I meant mounted on the underside though. Is that an option? > TR > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 2 Jun 2014, at 12:36 pm, Fred Klein wrote: >> >> >> TonyI came within an ace of mounting it on the top of the instrument panel module, and am just now beginning to consider other optionsIm loathe to mount it on the exterior of the roofit may fit within the space of the roof and an overhead panel Ive placed in the cockpit ceiling between the doorsId prefer not to mount it back behind the D panelhmmmmmFred >> >>> On Jun 1, 2014, at 5:56 PM, Tony Renshaw wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi Fred, >>> >>> With that Dynon Skyview GPS EFIS setup, what are you considering for a location?? Underside of instrument panel coaming, or in the roof? >>> >>> Tony R. >>> >>> >>>> On 2 Jun 2014, at 9:30 am, Fred Klein wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Ive been advised that a garmin instrument technician sez that it is optimal to have the gps antenna a good distance (he said 18 inches) away from other gps antennas as well as the electronics and instruments. >>>> >>>> Anyone flying w/ SkyView SV-250-GPS module installed?if so, Im curious as to where youve installed your SV-250 module, and if performance is acceptable; if not, where are you planning to relocate it? >>>> >>>> thanx, >>>> >>>> Fred >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:57 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: antennas From: "rparigoris" Hi Michel Here's a link to Aircraft Spruce: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/av/antenna_elt/antennasystems.php Click diagram to get the dimensions. Here's AAE's website: http://www.advancedaircraft.com/ The difference between the two is the direction the cable attaches. I used 1/4" thick Balsa the exact size of antenna. You can read step by step what I did, start here and keep clicking next: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=31222 Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424191#424191 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:35 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Europa-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Europa-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. 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Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Europa-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Europa-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Europa ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Europa-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Europa-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:20 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Europa-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Europa-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Europa-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Europa-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.