---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/09/14: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:55 AM - Europa Cover (James Kelly) 2. 03:24 AM - Stick Grips (Tony Renshaw) 3. 03:55 AM - Re: Stick Grips (Peter Zutrauen) 4. 05:09 AM - Re: Stick Grips (Bud Yerly) 5. 05:33 AM - Re: Stick Grips (Tony Renshaw) 6. 06:09 AM - Re: Stick Grips (Kingsley Hurst) 7. 06:55 AM - Annual inspection (Richard Iddon) 8. 07:24 AM - Re: Stick Grips (Fred Klein) 9. 11:20 AM - Re: Annual inspection (Brian Davies) 10. 01:09 PM - Re: Stick Grips (Bud Yerly) 11. 02:53 PM - Re: Stick Grips (Tony Renshaw) 12. 05:13 PM - Re: Stick Grips (Lance Sandford) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:55:58 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Europa Cover From: James Kelly Hello All, Is there anyone there that may have a Europa Cover any type will do. Please contact me directly on europajimkelly@gmail.com Cheers to you all Jim G-BWEG ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:29 AM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Stick Grips Gidday, I have a pair of Tosken Manufacturing Stick Grips, but the way they are raked forward is giving me grief. Ive already cut them down to suit, which works by having a 1 insert with a smaller diameter hole that the grip mounts through. So, I am after a stick grip that has a male stud sticking out the bottom that goes into a receptacle that fits inside our sticks, NOT over them. Any suggestions?? Regards Tony Renshaw ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:28 AM PST US From: Peter Zutrauen Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips Not having installed my nifty Tosten (www.tostenmanufacturing.com) grips yet, I was wondering if the raked condition could be rectified by milling up some custom off-axis grip-mount-plugs instead of replacing them totally? Cheers, Pete On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 6:23 AM, Tony Renshaw wrote: > > > Gidday, > I have a pair of Tosken Manufacturing Stick Grips, but the way they are > raked forward is giving me grief. I=99ve already cut them down to s uit, which > works by having a 1=9D insert with a smaller diameter hole that the grip > mounts through. So, I am after a stick grip that has a male stud sticking > out the bottom that goes into a receptacle that fits inside our sticks, N OT > over them. Any suggestions?? > Regards > Tony Renshaw > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:25 AM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips Tony, When going with other than the MAC style stick grips, you are in custom territory. I have had custom bending and welding done with a stud, and also with a military style multipin connector in the top of a stick. I find that custom stick grips usually come with proper spacers for 1 and 7/8 inch tubes. I would bet that the stick manufacturer has a solution to the fitting, but not the cockpit clearances. The issue, as you have found, is the cockpit clearance is going to require you to replace your sticks with custom bends to allow the grip head, at your comfortable flying position, to give clearance all around the cockpit. Nothing worse than testing an aircraft whose control limit stops are the panel and persons anatomy. Also check the passenger side as well. Regards, Bud Yerly -------------------------------------------------- From: "Tony Renshaw" Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 6:23 AM Subject: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > Gidday, > I have a pair of Tosken Manufacturing Stick Grips, but the way they are > raked forward is giving me grief. Ive already cut them down to suit, > which works by having a 1 insert with a smaller diameter hole that the > grip mounts through. So, I am after a stick grip that has a male stud > sticking out the bottom that goes into a receptacle that fits inside our > sticks, NOT over them. Any suggestions?? > Regards > Tony Renshaw > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:54 AM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips Hi Bud, Am I right that I can tinker with winding out the rod end at the bottom of the control column, to get the whole range of the stick further aft. It appears though the longer you make that arc, it alters the way the pitch pushrod travels within the aileron tube, and you could create a bind. Unfortunately I have a nice little 1 1/2" fence of 2 plies of BID that creates a surface to protect my controls, and to allow a boot to attach to, which is basically in the way of future close inspection. I think I might just rely on sound and feel throughout the control movement range. Irritating, and unforeseen. Regards Tony Renshaw Sent from my iPad > On 9 Jun 2014, at 10:08 pm, "Bud Yerly" wrote: > > > Tony, > When going with other than the MAC style stick grips, you are in custom territory. > I have had custom bending and welding done with a stud, and also with a military style multipin connector in the top of a stick. I find that custom stick grips usually come with proper spacers for 1 and 7/8 inch tubes. I would bet that the stick manufacturer has a solution to the fitting, but not the cockpit clearances. > > The issue, as you have found, is the cockpit clearance is going to require you to replace your sticks with custom bends to allow the grip head, at your comfortable flying position, to give clearance all around the cockpit. Nothing worse than testing an aircraft whose control limit stops are the panel and persons anatomy. Also check the passenger side as well. > > Regards, > Bud Yerly > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Tony Renshaw" > Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 6:23 AM > To: > Subject: Europa-List: Stick Grips > >> >> Gidday, >> I have a pair of Tosken Manufacturing Stick Grips, but the way they are raked forward is giving me grief. Ive already cut them down to suit, which works by having a 1 insert with a smaller diameter hole that the grip mounts through. So, I am after a stick grip that has a male stud sticking out the bottom that goes into a receptacle that fits inside our sticks, NOT over them. Any suggestions?? >> Regards >> Tony Renshaw > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips From: Kingsley Hurst Tony, Take it from a friendly banana bender from the Sunshine State ......... push bike handlebar grips are cheap and functional ..... Heh heh Do not archive Sent from my iPad > On 9 Jun 2014, at 10:33 pm, Tony Renshaw wrote: > > > Hi Bud, Am I right that I can tinker with winding out the rod end at the bottom of the control column, to get the whole range of the stick further aft. It appears though the longer you make that arc, it alters the way the pitch pushrod travels within the aileron tube, and you could create a bind. Unfortunately I have a nice little 1 1/2" fence of 2 plies of BID that creates a surface to protect my controls, and to allow a boot to attach to, which is basically in the way of future close inspection. I think I might just rely on sound and feel throughout the control movement range. Irritating, and unforeseen. > Regards > Tony Renshaw > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 9 Jun 2014, at 10:08 pm, "Bud Yerly" wrote: >> >> >> Tony, >> When going with other than the MAC style stick grips, you are in custom territory. >> I have had custom bending and welding done with a stud, and also with a military style multipin connector in the top of a stick. I find that custom stick grips usually come with proper spacers for 1 and 7/8 inch tubes. I would bet that the stick manufacturer has a solution to the fitting, but not the cockpit clearances. >> >> The issue, as you have found, is the cockpit clearance is going to require you to replace your sticks with custom bends to allow the grip head, at your comfortable flying position, to give clearance all around the cockpit. Nothing worse than testing an aircraft whose control limit stops are the panel and persons anatomy. Also check the passenger side as well. >> >> Regards, >> Bud Yerly >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Tony Renshaw" >> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 6:23 AM >> To: >> Subject: Europa-List: Stick Grips >> >>> >>> Gidday, >>> I have a pair of Tosken Manufacturing Stick Grips, but the way they are raked forward is giving me grief. Ive already cut them down to suit, which works by having a 1 insert with a smaller diameter hole that the grip mounts through. So, I am after a stick grip that has a male stud sticking out the bottom that goes into a receptacle that fits inside our sticks, NOT over them. Any suggestions?? >>> Regards >>> Tony Renshaw > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:20 AM PST US From: Richard Iddon Subject: Europa-List: Annual inspection My aircraft is due its annual and my current inspector has retired. I contacted a different inspector who told me that he couldn't inspect my aircraft as it was 'complex'. I wasn't aware that a tri gear was a complex aircraft. Can anyone enlighten me? Richard Iddon G-RIXS ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:10 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips Tony=85my mantra for all things aviation: =93=85manage the degree of novelty=85=94 Fred PS: I=92m a lousy manager. On Jun 9, 2014, at 5:08 AM, Bud Yerly wrote: > Tony, > When going with other than the MAC style stick grips, you are in custom territory. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:20:58 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Annual inspection All LAA inspectors are granted approvals for one or more of 12 different categories of aircraft. They are also granted approvals for different tasks e.g. Final inspection before first flight. Go to the LAA website and click on the Aircraft & Technical bar on the left and the drop down menu has a "find an inspector" line. Put in your post code and it will give you a list of inspectors and their approvals in your area. You need an inspector approved for A-C2 ( all fixed wing airframes of primarily composite construction.) Regards Brian Davies -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Iddon Sent: 09 June 2014 14:55 Subject: Europa-List: Annual inspection My aircraft is due its annual and my current inspector has retired. I contacted a different inspector who told me that he couldn't inspect my aircraft as it was 'complex'. I wasn't aware that a tri gear was a complex aircraft. Can anyone enlighten me? Richard Iddon G-RIXS ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:20 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips Tony, You are better off rebending the stick. Your gut to panel distance must be judged. The pitch rod travel is fixed more or less by geometry of the system, only slight changes are made there. Make a new stick custom to your grip. As for limits, your knees, gut and panel will determine what the stick shape and size need to be. What is important is 13+, -5 on the stab and your gut and panel (including knuckles) do not limit that at any aileron travel limit. Latterally, make sure the pain necessary to do full deflection is not noticeable in roll. Take it on a bit of faith, and note that tall grips create more of a pain and rework than they give back in enjoyment. It can add another 40 hours to the build. Unless your ego cannot live without it, it is a cut/bend/fit exercise. The KISS principle was applied to my bird because of doing 12 gotta have custom grips discussions. The last time I pulled a trigger on a stick, bad things happened to other people on the ground, I don't have one. I still fly with my index finger extended. Regards, Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Renshaw To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 8:33 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > Hi Bud, Am I right that I can tinker with winding out the rod end at the bottom of the control column, to get the whole range of the stick further aft. It appears though the longer you make that arc, it alters the way the pitch pushrod travels within the aileron tube, and you could create a bind. Unfortunately I have a nice little 1 1/2" fence of 2 plies of BID that creates a surface to protect my controls, and to allow a boot to attach to, which is basically in the way of future close inspection. I think I might just rely on sound and feel throughout the control movement range. Irritating, and unforeseen. Regards Tony Renshaw Sent from my iPad > On 9 Jun 2014, at 10:08 pm, "Bud Yerly" > wrote: > > > > Tony, > When going with other than the MAC style stick grips, you are in custom territory. > I have had custom bending and welding done with a stud, and also with a military style multipin connector in the top of a stick. I find that custom stick grips usually come with proper spacers for 1 and 7/8 inch tubes. I would bet that the stick manufacturer has a solution to the fitting, but not the cockpit clearances. > > The issue, as you have found, is the cockpit clearance is going to require you to replace your sticks with custom bends to allow the grip head, at your comfortable flying position, to give clearance all around the cockpit. Nothing worse than testing an aircraft whose control limit stops are the panel and persons anatomy. Also check the passenger side as well. > > Regards, > Bud Yerly > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Tony Renshaw" > > Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 6:23 AM > To: > > Subject: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > >> >> Gidday, >> I have a pair of Tosken Manufacturing Stick Grips, but the way they are raked forward is giving me grief. I=99ve already cut them down to suit, which works by having a 1=9D insert with a smaller diameter hole that the grip mounts through. So, I am after a stick grip that has a male stud sticking out the bottom that goes into a receptacle that fits inside our sticks, NOT over them. Any suggestions?? >> Regards >> Tony Renshaw > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:17 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips Except I have cut down the sticks! T Sent from my iPad > On 9 Jun 2014, at 11:08 pm, Kingsley Hurst wrote: > > > Tony, > > Take it from a friendly banana bender from the Sunshine State ......... push bike handlebar grips are cheap and functional ..... Heh heh > > Do not archive > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 9 Jun 2014, at 10:33 pm, Tony Renshaw wrote: >> >> >> Hi Bud, Am I right that I can tinker with winding out the rod end at the bottom of the control column, to get the whole range of the stick further aft. It appears though the longer you make that arc, it alters the way the pitch pushrod travels within the aileron tube, and you could create a bind. Unfortunately I have a nice little 1 1/2" fence of 2 plies of BID that creates a surface to protect my controls, and to allow a boot to attach to, which is basically in the way of future close inspection. I think I might just rely on sound and feel throughout the control movement range. Irritating, and unforeseen. >> Regards >> Tony Renshaw >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 9 Jun 2014, at 10:08 pm, "Bud Yerly" wrote: >>> >>> >>> Tony, >>> When going with other than the MAC style stick grips, you are in custom territory. >>> I have had custom bending and welding done with a stud, and also with a military style multipin connector in the top of a stick. I find that custom stick grips usually come with proper spacers for 1 and 7/8 inch tubes. I would bet that the stick manufacturer has a solution to the fitting, but not the cockpit clearances. >>> >>> The issue, as you have found, is the cockpit clearance is going to require you to replace your sticks with custom bends to allow the grip head, at your comfortable flying position, to give clearance all around the cockpit. Nothing worse than testing an aircraft whose control limit stops are the panel and persons anatomy. Also check the passenger side as well. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Bud Yerly >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Tony Renshaw" >>> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 6:23 AM >>> To: >>> Subject: Europa-List: Stick Grips >>> >>>> >>>> Gidday, >>>> I have a pair of Tosken Manufacturing Stick Grips, but the way they are raked forward is giving me grief. Ive already cut them down to suit, which works by having a 1 insert with a smaller diameter hole that the grip mounts through. So, I am after a stick grip that has a male stud sticking out the bottom that goes into a receptacle that fits inside our sticks, NOT over them. Any suggestions?? >>>> Regards >>>> Tony Renshaw > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:20 PM PST US From: Lance Sandford Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips Question for those who have test flown their Europa. How far can you shorten the control stick and still comfortably land the aircraft with the stabilizer stuck at full travel in either direction , without being Superman? Lance Sandford On 10/06/14 07:52, Tony Renshaw wrote: > > Except I have cut down the sticks! > T > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 9 Jun 2014, at 11:08 pm, Kingsley Hurst wrote: >> >> >> Tony, >> >> Take it from a friendly banana bender from the Sunshine State ......... push bike handlebar grips are cheap and functional ..... Heh heh >> >> Do not archive >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.