---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/10/14: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:10 AM - Re: Stick Grips (Bob Harrison) 2. 01:11 AM - Re: Stick Grips (Bob Harrison) 3. 01:39 AM - Re: Stick Grips (Tony Renshaw) 4. 01:51 AM - Re: Annual inspection (Richard Iddon) 5. 02:56 AM - Re: Stick Grips (Lance Sandford) 6. 03:05 AM - Re: Stick Grips (Remi Guerner) 7. 03:28 AM - Re: Stick Grips (Bob Harrison) 8. 04:01 AM - Re: Stick Grips (Tony Renshaw) 9. 04:20 AM - Re: Re: Stick Grips (Lance Sandford) 10. 05:08 AM - =?UTF-8?Q?EUROFLY=99IN_RSA_=2D_VICHY_2014? (stephan cassel) 11. 05:20 AM - Re: Stick Grips (William Daniell) 12. 05:34 AM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__EUROFLY=99IN_RSA_?= =?utf-8?Q?-_VICHY_2014? (Max Cointe (Free)) 13. 05:44 AM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__EUROFLY=99IN_RSA_-_VICHY_2014? (David Park) 14. 05:45 AM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__EUROFLY=99IN_RSA_-_VICHY_2014? (David Park) 15. 05:55 AM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__EUROFLY=99IN_RSA_?= =?utf-8?Q?-_VICHY_2014? (Max Cointe (Free)) 16. 06:20 AM - Re: Stick Grips (Bob Harrison) 17. 06:31 AM - Re: Stick Grips (Peter Zutrauen) 18. 06:50 AM - Re: Stick Grips (William Daniell) 19. 07:07 AM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__EUROFLY=99IN_RSA_-_VICHY_2014? (Ivor Phillips) 20. 07:41 AM - OFF TOPIC - 2 Lancasters () 21. 08:52 AM - Re: Stick Grips NOW TRIM MOTOR AND RELAY DECK. (Bob Harrison) 22. 09:09 AM - Re: Stick Grips Now Runaway Trim control stick Loads...... (Bob Harrison) 23. 10:06 AM - Wheel Shimmy, Again! (robertpeterfrost) 24. 10:41 AM - Re: Stick Grips NOW TRIM MOTOR AND RELAY DECK. (William Daniell) 25. 11:49 AM - Re: Wheel Shimmy, Again! (jonathanmilbank) 26. 12:08 PM - Re: Annual inspection (Brian Davies) 27. 12:38 PM - Re: Annual inspection (danny shepherd) 28. 03:43 PM - Re: Stick Grips Now Runaway Trim control stick Loads...... (Tony Renshaw) 29. 03:50 PM - Re: Stick Grips NOW TRIM MOTOR AND RELAY DECK. (Tony Renshaw) 30. 04:57 PM - Headset Wiring (Tony Renshaw) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:10:07 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stick Grips Answer:- NO SHORTER WHATEVER. TO LAND FULLY NOSE UP TRIM IT WOULD BE Extremely difficult on your own ! but power assisted by the passenger probably ! But the extreme loads are a question over the mechanical strengths of the linkages ! When I had to go to fully trimmed up to get the damn relay deck to reverse it was easier to let it go fully nose up trim and pray the deck would let itself reverse when it got to the end of travel. Been there done that when Menzimer was insisting my problem was wiring when in actual fact they eventually discovered that the end of the travel by the relay masked the actual problem in the relay . Since I fitted the MARK II relay deck never a problem !!!!! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Sandford Sent: 10 June 2014 01:13 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips --> Question for those who have test flown their Europa. How far can you shorten the control stick and still comfortably land the aircraft with the stabilizer stuck at full travel in either direction , without being Superman? Lance Sandford On 10/06/14 07:52, Tony Renshaw wrote: > --> > > Except I have cut down the sticks! > T > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 9 Jun 2014, at 11:08 pm, Kingsley Hurst wrote: >> >> --> >> >> Tony, >> >> Take it from a friendly banana bender from the Sunshine State >> ......... push bike handlebar grips are cheap and functional ..... >> Heh heh >> >> Do not archive >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:33 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stick Grips Tony .......get new sticks of the already bent type. See my answer to Lance Stanford. Regards |Bob Harrison. G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw Sent: 09 June 2014 22:52 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips --> Except I have cut down the sticks! T Sent from my iPad > On 9 Jun 2014, at 11:08 pm, Kingsley Hurst wrote: > > --> > > Tony, > > Take it from a friendly banana bender from the Sunshine State > ......... push bike handlebar grips are cheap and functional ..... Heh > heh > > Do not archive > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 9 Jun 2014, at 10:33 pm, Tony Renshaw wrote: >> >> --> >> >> Hi Bud, Am I right that I can tinker with winding out the rod end at the bottom of the control column, to get the whole range of the stick further aft. It appears though the longer you make that arc, it alters the way the pitch pushrod travels within the aileron tube, and you could create a bind. Unfortunately I have a nice little 1 1/2" fence of 2 plies of BID that creates a surface to protect my controls, and to allow a boot to attach to, which is basically in the way of future close inspection. I think I might just rely on sound and feel throughout the control movement range. Irritating, and unforeseen. >> Regards >> Tony Renshaw >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 9 Jun 2014, at 10:08 pm, "Bud Yerly" wrote: >>> >>> >>> Tony, >>> When going with other than the MAC style stick grips, you are in custom territory. >>> I have had custom bending and welding done with a stud, and also with a military style multipin connector in the top of a stick. I find that custom stick grips usually come with proper spacers for 1 and 7/8 inch tubes. I would bet that the stick manufacturer has a solution to the fitting, but not the cockpit clearances. >>> >>> The issue, as you have found, is the cockpit clearance is going to require you to replace your sticks with custom bends to allow the grip head, at your comfortable flying position, to give clearance all around the cockpit. Nothing worse than testing an aircraft whose control limit stops are the panel and persons anatomy. Also check the passenger side as well. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Bud Yerly >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Tony Renshaw" >>> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 6:23 AM >>> To: >>> Subject: Europa-List: Stick Grips >>> >>>> --> >>>> >>>> Gidday, >>>> I have a pair of Tosken Manufacturing Stick Grips, but the way they are raked forward is giving me grief. Ive already cut them down to suit, which works by having a 1 insert with a smaller diameter hole that the grip mounts through. So, I am after a stick grip that has a male stud sticking out the bottom that goes into a receptacle that fits inside our sticks, NOT over them. Any suggestions?? >>>> Regards >>>> Tony Renshaw > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:26 AM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips Hi Bob, Like me, mine are already BENT! So, I think if I can get the bits I chopped off the ends stuck in the middle, I might be right. How come the curved sticks weren't more curved, receding further aft and less forward? ;-) I think I know the answer. Regards Tony Renshaw Sent from my iPad > On 10 Jun 2014, at 6:10 pm, "Bob Harrison" wrote: > > > Tony .......get new sticks of the already bent type. See my answer to Lance Stanford. > Regards > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw > Sent: 09 June 2014 22:52 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > --> > > Except I have cut down the sticks! > T > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 9 Jun 2014, at 11:08 pm, Kingsley Hurst wrote: >> >> --> >> >> Tony, >> >> Take it from a friendly banana bender from the Sunshine State >> ......... push bike handlebar grips are cheap and functional ..... Heh >> heh >> >> Do not archive >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 9 Jun 2014, at 10:33 pm, Tony Renshaw wrote: >>> >>> --> >>> >>> Hi Bud, Am I right that I can tinker with winding out the rod end at the bottom of the control column, to get the whole range of the stick further aft. It appears though the longer you make that arc, it alters the way the pitch pushrod travels within the aileron tube, and you could create a bind. Unfortunately I have a nice little 1 1/2" fence of 2 plies of BID that creates a surface to protect my controls, and to allow a boot to attach to, which is basically in the way of future close inspection. I think I might just rely on sound and feel throughout the control movement range. Irritating, and unforeseen. >>> Regards >>> Tony Renshaw >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 9 Jun 2014, at 10:08 pm, "Bud Yerly" wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Tony, >>>> When going with other than the MAC style stick grips, you are in custom territory. >>>> I have had custom bending and welding done with a stud, and also with a military style multipin connector in the top of a stick. I find that custom stick grips usually come with proper spacers for 1 and 7/8 inch tubes. I would bet that the stick manufacturer has a solution to the fitting, but not the cockpit clearances. >>>> >>>> The issue, as you have found, is the cockpit clearance is going to require you to replace your sticks with custom bends to allow the grip head, at your comfortable flying position, to give clearance all around the cockpit. Nothing worse than testing an aircraft whose control limit stops are the panel and persons anatomy. Also check the passenger side as well. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Bud Yerly >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Tony Renshaw" >>>> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 6:23 AM >>>> To: >>>> Subject: Europa-List: Stick Grips >>>> >>>>> --> >>>>> >>>>> Gidday, >>>>> I have a pair of Tosken Manufacturing Stick Grips, but the way they are raked forward is giving me grief. Ive already cut them down to suit, which works by having a 1 insert with a smaller diameter hole that the grip mounts through. So, I am after a stick grip that has a male stud sticking out the bottom that goes into a receptacle that fits inside our sticks, NOT over them. Any suggestions?? >>>>> Regards >>>>> Tony Renshaw > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:30 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Annual inspection From: Richard Iddon Thanks Brian. Would an inspector rate A-A also be suitable? Richard. On 9 Jun 2014, at 19:20, Brian Davies wrote: > > All LAA inspectors are granted approvals for one or more of 12 different > categories of aircraft. They are also granted approvals for different tasks > e.g. Final inspection before first flight. Go to the LAA website and click > on the Aircraft & Technical bar on the left and the drop down menu has a > "find an inspector" line. Put in your post code and it will give you a list > of inspectors and their approvals in your area. You need an inspector > approved for A-C2 ( all fixed wing airframes of primarily composite > construction.) > > Regards > > Brian Davies > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Iddon > Sent: 09 June 2014 14:55 > To: Europa Forum > Subject: Europa-List: Annual inspection > > > My aircraft is due its annual and my current inspector has retired. I > contacted a different inspector who told me that he couldn't inspect my > aircraft as it was 'complex'. I wasn't aware that a tri gear was a complex > aircraft. Can anyone enlighten me? > > Richard Iddon > > G-RIXS > > > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:46 AM PST US From: Lance Sandford Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips Bob Thanks Bob. That is about what I suspected. Regards Lance Sandford On 10/06/14 18:09, Bob Harrison wrote: > > Answer:- NO SHORTER WHATEVER. TO LAND FULLY NOSE UP TRIM IT WOULD BE Extremely difficult on your own ! but power assisted by the passenger probably ! But the extreme loads are a question over the mechanical strengths of the linkages ! When I had to go to fully trimmed up to get the damn relay deck to reverse it was easier to let it go fully nose up trim and pray the deck would let itself reverse when it got to the end of travel. Been there done that when Menzimer was insisting my problem was wiring when in actual fact they eventually discovered that the end of the travel by the relay masked the actual problem in the relay . Since I fitted the MARK II relay deck never a problem !!!!! > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Sandford > Sent: 10 June 2014 01:13 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > --> > > Question for those who have test flown their Europa. > > How far can you shorten the control stick and still comfortably land the aircraft with the stabilizer stuck at full travel in either direction , without being Superman? > > Lance Sandford > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:05:48 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Stick Grips From: "Remi Guerner" > Lance, I assume you are talking about possible pitch trim runaway. I did some testing a few years ago with my aircraft and this is what I found: at my typical 130 kts cruise speed if the servo goes to the full pitch up position, the necessary push force is so high that it is impossible to maintain level flight. After reducing power and speed, the push force is still very high. It is possible to maintain level flight but it will be very tiring after a few minutes. Still at cruising speed, if the servo goes to the full down position, the pull force is high but it is possible to maintain level flight even at cruise speed. After reducing power and speed, the pull force is still high but it is possible to maintain level flight quite easily. Testing was done with the standard stick. Obviously a shortened stick will make things worse. I believe it is critical to have the pitch trim circuit breaker well marked so that you can turn it off before it goes all the way up or down. In case of a runaway to the up position, a trick is to bank the aircraft and turn, therefore releasing the push force. Then, while you are doing 360s, you can relax and take time to decide what you are going to do next. Remi Guerner F-PGKL, XS monowheel, 1100 hours Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424612#424612 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:28:02 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stick Grips Hi! Tony. Don't be fooled by the bend. It is not all about forward and aft bending you will need to use the existing bend partly rotated to achieve best position. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw Sent: 10 June 2014 09:39 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips --> Hi Bob, Like me, mine are already BENT! So, I think if I can get the bits I chopped off the ends stuck in the middle, I might be right. How come the curved sticks weren't more curved, receding further aft and less forward? ;-) I think I know the answer. Regards Tony Renshaw Sent from my iPad > On 10 Jun 2014, at 6:10 pm, "Bob Harrison" wrote: > > --> > > Tony .......get new sticks of the already bent type. See my answer to Lance Stanford. > Regards > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony > Renshaw > Sent: 09 June 2014 22:52 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > --> > > Except I have cut down the sticks! > T > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 9 Jun 2014, at 11:08 pm, Kingsley Hurst wrote: >> >> --> >> >> Tony, >> >> Take it from a friendly banana bender from the Sunshine State >> ......... push bike handlebar grips are cheap and functional ..... >> Heh heh >> >> Do not archive >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 9 Jun 2014, at 10:33 pm, Tony Renshaw wrote: >>> >>> --> >>> >>> Hi Bud, Am I right that I can tinker with winding out the rod end at the bottom of the control column, to get the whole range of the stick further aft. It appears though the longer you make that arc, it alters the way the pitch pushrod travels within the aileron tube, and you could create a bind. Unfortunately I have a nice little 1 1/2" fence of 2 plies of BID that creates a surface to protect my controls, and to allow a boot to attach to, which is basically in the way of future close inspection. I think I might just rely on sound and feel throughout the control movement range. Irritating, and unforeseen. >>> Regards >>> Tony Renshaw >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 9 Jun 2014, at 10:08 pm, "Bud Yerly" wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Tony, >>>> When going with other than the MAC style stick grips, you are in custom territory. >>>> I have had custom bending and welding done with a stud, and also with a military style multipin connector in the top of a stick. I find that custom stick grips usually come with proper spacers for 1 and 7/8 inch tubes. I would bet that the stick manufacturer has a solution to the fitting, but not the cockpit clearances. >>>> >>>> The issue, as you have found, is the cockpit clearance is going to require you to replace your sticks with custom bends to allow the grip head, at your comfortable flying position, to give clearance all around the cockpit. Nothing worse than testing an aircraft whose control limit stops are the panel and persons anatomy. Also check the passenger side as well. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Bud Yerly >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Tony Renshaw" >>>> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 6:23 AM >>>> To: >>>> Subject: Europa-List: Stick Grips >>>> >>>>> --> >>>>> >>>>> Gidday, >>>>> I have a pair of Tosken Manufacturing Stick Grips, but the way they are raked forward is giving me grief. Ive already cut them down to suit, which works by having a 1 insert with a smaller diameter hole that the grip mounts through. So, I am after a stick grip that has a male stud sticking out the bottom that goes into a receptacle that fits inside our sticks, NOT over them. Any suggestions?? >>>>> Regards >>>>> Tony Renshaw > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:53 AM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips Yep. TR Sent from my iPad > On 10 Jun 2014, at 8:27 pm, "Bob Harrison" wrote: > > > Hi! Tony. > Don't be fooled by the bend. It is not all about forward and aft bending you will need to use the existing bend partly rotated to achieve best position. > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw > Sent: 10 June 2014 09:39 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > --> > > Hi Bob, > Like me, mine are already BENT! > So, I think if I can get the bits I chopped off the ends stuck in the middle, I might be right. How come the curved sticks weren't more curved, receding further aft and less forward? > ;-) > I think I know the answer. > Regards > Tony Renshaw > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 10 Jun 2014, at 6:10 pm, "Bob Harrison" wrote: >> >> --> >> >> Tony .......get new sticks of the already bent type. See my answer to Lance Stanford. >> Regards >> |Bob Harrison. G-PTAG >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony >> Renshaw >> Sent: 09 June 2014 22:52 >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips >> >> --> >> >> Except I have cut down the sticks! >> T >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 9 Jun 2014, at 11:08 pm, Kingsley Hurst wrote: >>> >>> --> >>> >>> Tony, >>> >>> Take it from a friendly banana bender from the Sunshine State >>> ......... push bike handlebar grips are cheap and functional ..... >>> Heh heh >>> >>> Do not archive >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 9 Jun 2014, at 10:33 pm, Tony Renshaw wrote: >>>> >>>> --> >>>> >>>> Hi Bud, Am I right that I can tinker with winding out the rod end at the bottom of the control column, to get the whole range of the stick further aft. It appears though the longer you make that arc, it alters the way the pitch pushrod travels within the aileron tube, and you could create a bind. Unfortunately I have a nice little 1 1/2" fence of 2 plies of BID that creates a surface to protect my controls, and to allow a boot to attach to, which is basically in the way of future close inspection. I think I might just rely on sound and feel throughout the control movement range. Irritating, and unforeseen. >>>> Regards >>>> Tony Renshaw >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 9 Jun 2014, at 10:08 pm, "Bud Yerly" wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tony, >>>>> When going with other than the MAC style stick grips, you are in custom territory. >>>>> I have had custom bending and welding done with a stud, and also with a military style multipin connector in the top of a stick. I find that custom stick grips usually come with proper spacers for 1 and 7/8 inch tubes. I would bet that the stick manufacturer has a solution to the fitting, but not the cockpit clearances. >>>>> >>>>> The issue, as you have found, is the cockpit clearance is going to require you to replace your sticks with custom bends to allow the grip head, at your comfortable flying position, to give clearance all around the cockpit. Nothing worse than testing an aircraft whose control limit stops are the panel and persons anatomy. Also check the passenger side as well. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Bud Yerly >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Tony Renshaw" >>>>> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 6:23 AM >>>>> To: >>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Stick Grips >>>>> >>>>>> --> >>>>>> >>>>>> Gidday, >>>>>> I have a pair of Tosken Manufacturing Stick Grips, but the way they are raked forward is giving me grief. Ive already cut them down to suit, which works by having a 1 insert with a smaller diameter hole that the grip mounts through. So, I am after a stick grip that has a male stud sticking out the bottom that goes into a receptacle that fits inside our sticks, NOT over them. Any suggestions?? >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> Tony Renshaw > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:52 AM PST US From: Lance Sandford Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Stick Grips Remi Thanks for the additional info. I assumed it would be a handful in cruise. It is the approach and landing loads I was interested in. Some sort of a kill switch would be a good idea, Im using fuses not circuit breakers. Regards Lance Sandford On 10/06/14 20:05, Remi Guerner wrote: > > > Lance, > I assume you are talking about possible pitch trim runaway. I did some testing a few years ago with my aircraft and this is what I found: > at my typical 130 kts cruise speed if the servo goes to the full pitch up position, the necessary push force is so high that it is impossible to maintain level flight. After reducing power and speed, the push force is still very high. It is possible to maintain level flight but it will be very tiring after a few minutes. > Still at cruising speed, if the servo goes to the full down position, the pull force is high but it is possible to maintain level flight even at cruise speed. After reducing power and speed, the pull force is still high but it is possible to maintain level flight quite easily. > Testing was done with the standard stick. Obviously a shortened stick will make things worse. > I believe it is critical to have the pitch trim circuit breaker well marked so that you can turn it off before it goes all the way up or down. In case of a runaway to the up position, a trick is to bank the aircraft and turn, therefore releasing the push force. Then, while you are doing 360s, you can relax and take time to decide what you are going to do next. > Remi Guerner > F-PGKL, XS monowheel, 1100 hours > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424612#424612 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:11 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: =?UTF-8?Q?EUROFLY=99IN_RSA_=2D_VICHY_2014? From: stephan cassel Dear Europa Flyers, *The greatest Fly-in and Airshow in France will gather 600 aircraft on July the 19th and 20th 2014 in VICHY, flying from all over Europe. France, UK, Switzerland , Belgium, Sweden, Germany* *The favourite rendez-vous for pilots and aircraft lovers.* Are there any Europa friends planning to participate this year? If so, it would be smashing if we could park in the same zone: "The Europa Zone" Best regards Stephan Cassel LN-STE ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:28 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips From: William Daniell whassat....Bob I dont remember that issue can you enlighten on the trim issue please Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 AM, Lance Sandford wrote: > > Bob > > Thanks Bob. That is about what I suspected. > > Regards > > Lance Sandford > > > On 10/06/14 18:09, Bob Harrison wrote: > >> >> Answer:- NO SHORTER WHATEVER. TO LAND FULLY NOSE UP TRIM IT WOULD BE >> Extremely difficult on your own ! but power assisted by the passenger >> probably ! But the extreme loads are a question over the mechanical >> strengths of the linkages ! When I had to go to fully trimmed up to get >> the damn relay deck to reverse it was easier to let it go fully nose up >> trim and pray the deck would let itself reverse when it got to the end of >> travel. Been there done that when Menzimer was insisting my problem was >> wiring when in actual fact they eventually discovered that the end of the >> travel by the relay masked the actual problem in the relay . Since I fitted >> the MARK II relay deck never a problem !!!!! >> Regards >> Bob Harrison G-PTAG >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list- >> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Sandford >> Sent: 10 June 2014 01:13 >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips >> >> --> >> >> Question for those who have test flown their Europa. >> >> How far can you shorten the control stick and still comfortably land the >> aircraft with the stabilizer stuck at full travel in either direction , >> without being Superman? >> >> Lance Sandford >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:22 AM PST US From: "Max Cointe (Free)" Subject: =?utf-8?Q?RE:_Europa-List:_EUROFLY=99IN_RSA_?= =?utf-8?Q?-_VICHY_2014? Hi there All, Hope to meet you there the 19th of July! Max Cointe mcointe@free.fr F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours F-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1600 heures De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de stephan cassel Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 10 juin 2014 14:08 =C3 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : Europa-List: EUROFLY=99IN RSA - VICHY 2014 Dear Europa Flyers, The greatest Fly-in and Airshow in France will gather 600 aircraft on July the 19th and 20th 2014 in VICHY, flying from all over Europe. France, UK, Switzerland , Belgium, Sweden, Germany The favourite rendez-vous for pilots and aircraft lovers. Are there any Europa friends planning to participate this year? If so, it would be smashing if we could park in the same zone: "The Europa Zone" Best regards Stephan Cassel LN-STE ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:15 AM PST US From: David Park Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_EUROFLY=99IN_RSA_-_VICHY_2014? Hope to see you there. Dave G-LDVO Sent from my iPad > On 10 Jun 2014, at 13:07, stephan cassel wrote: > > Dear Europa Flyers, > > The greatest Fly-in and Airshow in France will gather 600 aircraft on July the 19th and 20th 2014 in VICHY, flying from all over Europe. France, UK, S witzerland , Belgium, Sweden, Germany > > > The favourite rendez-vous for pilots and aircraft lovers. > > Are there any Europa friends planning to participate this year? > If so, it would be smashing if we could park in the same zone: "The Europa Zone" > > Best regards > Stephan Cassel > LN-STE > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:08 AM PST US From: David Park Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_EUROFLY=99IN_RSA_-_VICHY_2014? Weather permitting? Dave G-LDVO Sent from my iPad > On 10 Jun 2014, at 13:33, "Max Cointe (Free)" wrote: > > Hi there All, > > Hope to meet you there the 19th of July! > > Max Cointe > mcointe@free.fr > F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear > Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours > > F-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S > Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1600 heures > > De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv er@matronics.com] De la part de stephan cassel > Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 10 juin 2014 14:08 > =C3 : europa-list@matronics.com > Objet : Europa-List: EUROFLY=99IN RSA - VICHY 2014 > > Dear Europa Flyers, > > The greatest Fly-in and Airshow in France will gather 600 aircraft on July the 19th and 20th 2014 in VICHY, flying from all over Europe. France, UK, S witzerland , Belgium, Sweden, Germany > > > The favourite rendez-vous for pilots and aircraft lovers. > > Are there any Europa friends planning to participate this year? > If so, it would be smashing if we could park in the same zone: "The Europa Zone" > > Best regards > Stephan Cassel > LN-STE > > > - The Europa-List Email Forum Use the Matronics List Features Na vigator to browse > --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS Same great content also available vi a the Web Forums! > --> http://forums.matronics.com > - List Contribution Web Site - > Thank you for your generous support! > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:11 AM PST US From: "Max Cointe (Free)" Subject: =?utf-8?Q?RE:_Europa-List:_EUROFLY=99IN_RSA_?= =?utf-8?Q?-_VICHY_2014? In that part of France it rains only on Parisians! Sun will be there Max Cointe mcointe@free.fr F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours F-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1600 heures De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de David Park Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 10 juin 2014 14:45 =C3 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : Re: Europa-List: EUROFLY=99IN RSA - VICHY 2014 Weather permitting? Dave G-LDVO Sent from my iPad On 10 Jun 2014, at 13:33, "Max Cointe (Free)" wrote: Hi there All, Hope to meet you there the 19th of July! Max Cointe mcointe@free.fr F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours F-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1600 heures De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de stephan cassel Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 10 juin 2014 14:08 =C3 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : Europa-List: EUROFLY=99IN RSA - VICHY 2014 Dear Europa Flyers, The greatest Fly-in and Airshow in France will gather 600 aircraft on July the 19th and 20th 2014 in VICHY, flying from all over Europe. France, UK, Switzerland , Belgium, Sweden, Germany The favourite rendez-vous for pilots and aircraft lovers. Are there any Europa friends planning to participate this year? If so, it would be smashing if we could park in the same zone: "The Europa Zone" Best regards Stephan Cassel LN-STE http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com -Matt Dralle, List Admin. <="" span="">--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D //forums.matronics.com D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:04 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stick Grips Hi! William ................Just don=99t shorten the control stick ......use the bent one and fix it by rotating it to best position. Regards Bob Harrison. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 10 June 2014 13:20 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips whassat....Bob I dont remember that issue can you enlighten on the trim issue please Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 AM, Lance Sandford wrote: Bob Thanks Bob. That is about what I suspected. Regards Lance Sandford On 10/06/14 18:09, Bob Harrison wrote: Answer:- NO SHORTER WHATEVER. TO LAND FULLY NOSE UP TRIM IT WOULD BE Extremely difficult on your own ! but power assisted by the passenger probably ! But the extreme loads are a question over the mechanical strengths of the linkages ! When I had to go to fully trimmed up to get the damn relay deck to reverse it was easier to let it go fully nose up trim and pray the deck would let itself reverse when it got to the end of travel. Been there done that when Menzimer was insisting my problem was wiring when in actual fact they eventually discovered that the end of the travel by the relay masked the actual problem in the relay . Since I fitted the MARK II relay deck never a problem !!!!! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Sandford Sent: 10 June 2014 01:13 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips --> Question for those who have test flown their Europa. How far can you shorten the control stick and still comfortably land the aircraft with the stabilizer stuck at full travel in either direction , without being Superman? Lance Sandford st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List MS - k">http://forums.matronics.com e - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:31 AM PST US From: Peter Zutrauen Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips approx how many pounds of push/pull stick force is it at cruise with a runaway trim (with a stock length stick)? cheers & thx, Pete On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Bob Harrison wrote : > Hi! William > > ................Just don=99t shorten the control stick ......use th e bent > one and fix it by rotating it to best position. > > Regards > > Bob Harrison. > > > *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *William Daniell > *Sent:* 10 June 2014 13:20 > > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > > whassat....Bob I dont remember that issue can you enlighten on the trim > issue please > > Will > > > William Daniell > > LONGPORT > > +57 310 295 0744 > > > On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 AM, Lance Sandford > wrote: > > > > Bob > > Thanks Bob. That is about what I suspected. > > Regards > > Lance Sandford > > > On 10/06/14 18:09, Bob Harrison wrote: > > > Answer:- NO SHORTER WHATEVER. TO LAND FULLY NOSE UP TRIM IT WOULD BE > Extremely difficult on your own ! but power assisted by the passenger > probably ! But the extreme loads are a question over the mechanical > strengths of the linkages ! When I had to go to fully trimmed up to get > the damn relay deck to reverse it was easier to let it go fully nose up > trim and pray the deck would let itself reverse when it got to the end of > travel. Been there done that when Menzimer was insisting my problem was > wiring when in actual fact they eventually discovered that the end of the > travel by the relay masked the actual problem in the relay . Since I fitt ed > the MARK II relay deck never a problem !!!!! > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Sandford > Sent: 10 June 2014 01:13 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > --> > > Question for those who have test flown their Europa. > > How far can you shorten the control stick and still comfortably land the > aircraft with the stabilizer stuck at full travel in either direction , > without being Superman? > > Lance Sandford > > > ======================== =========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > ======================== =========== > MS - > k">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > e - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ======================== =========== > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List * > > *http://forums.matronics.com * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution * > > > * > =========== tronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips From: William Daniell Thanks...but you had a runaway trim? if is was a particular model I am wondering whether I shd change my trim motor (Mac) prior to putting the top on (I cant imgaine this is much fun with the top on!) William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Bob Harrison wrote : > Hi! William > > ................Just don=99t shorten the control stick ......use th e bent > one and fix it by rotating it to best position. > > Regards > > Bob Harrison. > > > *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *William Daniell > *Sent:* 10 June 2014 13:20 > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > > whassat....Bob I dont remember that issue can you enlighten on the trim > issue please > > Will > > > William Daniell > > LONGPORT > > +57 310 295 0744 > > > On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 AM, Lance Sandford > wrote: > > > > Bob > > Thanks Bob. That is about what I suspected. > > Regards > > Lance Sandford > > > On 10/06/14 18:09, Bob Harrison wrote: > > > Answer:- NO SHORTER WHATEVER. TO LAND FULLY NOSE UP TRIM IT WOULD BE > Extremely difficult on your own ! but power assisted by the passenger > probably ! But the extreme loads are a question over the mechanical > strengths of the linkages ! When I had to go to fully trimmed up to get > the damn relay deck to reverse it was easier to let it go fully nose up > trim and pray the deck would let itself reverse when it got to the end of > travel. Been there done that when Menzimer was insisting my problem was > wiring when in actual fact they eventually discovered that the end of the > travel by the relay masked the actual problem in the relay . Since I fitt ed > the MARK II relay deck never a problem !!!!! > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Sandford > Sent: 10 June 2014 01:13 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > --> > > Question for those who have test flown their Europa. > > How far can you shorten the control stick and still comfortably land the > aircraft with the stabilizer stuck at full travel in either direction , > without being Superman? > > Lance Sandford > > > ======================== =========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > ======================== =========== > MS - > k">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > e - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ======================== =========== > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List * > > *http://forums.matronics.com * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution * > > > * > =========== tronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:21 AM PST US Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_EUROFLY=99IN_RSA_-_VICHY_2014? From: Ivor Phillips Yes I am planning on going again this year, Ivor Phillips G-IVER Sent from my iPad > On 10 Jun 2014, at 13:07, stephan cassel wrote: > > Dear Europa Flyers, > > The greatest Fly-in and Airshow in France will gather 600 aircraft on July the 19th and 20th 2014 in VICHY, flying from all over Europe. France, UK, S witzerland , Belgium, Sweden, Germany > > > The favourite rendez-vous for pilots and aircraft lovers. > > Are there any Europa friends planning to participate this year? > If so, it would be smashing if we could park in the same zone: "The Europa Zone" > > Best regards > Stephan Cassel > LN-STE > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:56 AM PST US From: Subject: Europa-List: OFF TOPIC - 2 Lancasters The Canadian Warplane heritage Museum in Hamilton will depart 04 August 2014for an August tour of the UK airshow sites arriving 08 August, scheduled. If you happen to be in the area of the following events, you may see two Lancasters together for a rare show. Cheers http://www.warplane.com/lancaster-2014-uk-tour.aspx ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:23 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stick Grips NOW TRIM MOTOR AND RELAY DECK. Hi! William. The question initially has revolved around the length of the control stick and loads needed when out of maximum trim. My issue was nothing to do with the trim motor, however in your position you should plan the securing of it so that you would be able to remove it in an unlikely eventuality of failure because when the top is on it is a bastard to access. However recently there was much chat about the plastic clevises needing 1/8=9D removed from their threaded ends before linking them with the brass threaded rod to facilitate more movement of the trim and stabilators on final inspection.( Hopefully you picked up on that ?) My trim reversal problem was not to do with the trim motor but the relay deck it had an inherent fault which became masked once the motor had travelled to full trim and I had numerous major debates with the Menzemer chaps always culminating in them alleging my wiring was at fault. Until one day I had yet another event and when I contacted them I discovered that they were now supplying the MARK II relay deck which is faultless but of different shape also making it an arse to shift things around on the back of the panel. You need to shout out on the Europa Club pages as to how many others have had this problem and then probably =9Cbite the bullet=9D and get the MARK II fitted and done with it. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 10 June 2014 14:50 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips Thanks...but you had a runaway trim? if is was a particular model I am wondering whether I shd change my trim motor (Mac) prior to putting the top on (I cant imgaine this is much fun with the top on!) William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Bob Harrison wrote: Hi! William ................Just don=99t shorten the control stick ......use the bent one and fix it by rotating it to best position. Regards Bob Harrison. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 10 June 2014 13:20 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips whassat....Bob I dont remember that issue can you enlighten on the trim issue please Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 AM, Lance Sandford wrote: Bob Thanks Bob. That is about what I suspected. Regards Lance Sandford On 10/06/14 18:09, Bob Harrison wrote: Answer:- NO SHORTER WHATEVER. TO LAND FULLY NOSE UP TRIM IT WOULD BE Extremely difficult on your own ! but power assisted by the passenger probably ! But the extreme loads are a question over the mechanical strengths of the linkages ! When I had to go to fully trimmed up to get the damn relay deck to reverse it was easier to let it go fully nose up trim and pray the deck would let itself reverse when it got to the end of travel. Been there done that when Menzimer was insisting my problem was wiring when in actual fact they eventually discovered that the end of the travel by the relay masked the actual problem in the relay . Since I fitted the MARK II relay deck never a problem !!!!! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Sandford Sent: 10 June 2014 01:13 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips --> Question for those who have test flown their Europa. How far can you shorten the control stick and still comfortably land the aircraft with the stabilizer stuck at full travel in either direction , without being Superman? Lance Sandford st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List MS - k">http://forums.matronics.com e - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:56 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stick Grips Now Runaway Trim control stick Loads...... Peter.....it is more than you would want for much more than 10 minutes. Please note I have not been talking about a runaway situation. Just a rogue relay deck not reversing until reaching the end of the travel. That has now been rectified by fitting the MARK II relay from Ford Allan /Menzimer organisation. Regards Bob Harrison. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Zutrauen Sent: 10 June 2014 14:30 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips approx how many pounds of push/pull stick force is it at cruise with a runaway trim (with a stock length stick)? cheers & thx, Pete On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Bob Harrison wrote: Hi! William ................Just don=99t shorten the control stick ......use the bent one and fix it by rotating it to best position. Regards Bob Harrison. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 10 June 2014 13:20 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips whassat....Bob I dont remember that issue can you enlighten on the trim issue please Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 AM, Lance Sandford wrote: Bob Thanks Bob. That is about what I suspected. Regards Lance Sandford On 10/06/14 18:09, Bob Harrison wrote: Answer:- NO SHORTER WHATEVER. TO LAND FULLY NOSE UP TRIM IT WOULD BE Extremely difficult on your own ! but power assisted by the passenger probably ! But the extreme loads are a question over the mechanical strengths of the linkages ! When I had to go to fully trimmed up to get the damn relay deck to reverse it was easier to let it go fully nose up trim and pray the deck would let itself reverse when it got to the end of travel. Been there done that when Menzimer was insisting my problem was wiring when in actual fact they eventually discovered that the end of the travel by the relay masked the actual problem in the relay . Since I fitted the MARK II relay deck never a problem !!!!! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Sandford Sent: 10 June 2014 01:13 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips --> Question for those who have test flown their Europa. How far can you shorten the control stick and still comfortably land the aircraft with the stabilizer stuck at full travel in either direction , without being Superman? Lance Sandford st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List MS - k">http://forums.matronics.com e - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:41 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Wheel Shimmy, Again! From: "robertpeterfrost" We are experiencing nose wheel shimmy again on our XS Tri-Gear G-RPAF. We have replaced the Belleville disc washers from Springmasters and tried the revised configuration of 6 off of the larger 95012 discs rather than the original 4 off P281315 and 2 off 95012. We are also using Newgate Simms (NL 1013) 868H Gel on the friction plate. When we tighten it up we can only get the Maximum damping friction to 15lb before it breaks, if we tighten the castilated nut any further the damping effect diminishes to around 10ib. The required break tension is stated at 8 to 10 kg (18 to 20lb). Any suggestions to achieve the correct settings would be appreciated? -------- Robert Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424644#424644 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips NOW TRIM MOTOR AND RELAY DECK. From: William Daniell yes i picked up on that and I am going to assemble the whole thing for the upteenth time. I am showing my ignorance but what is the relay deck? I just have a mac servo on the tail bulkhead, an up/down switch and an indicator light ... Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Bob Harrison wrote: > Hi! William. > > The question initially has revolved around the length of the control stic k > and loads needed when out of maximum trim. > > My issue was nothing to do with the trim motor, however in your position > you should plan the securing of it so that you would be able to remove it > in an unlikely eventuality of failure because when the top is on it is a > bastard to access. However recently there was much chat about the > plastic clevises needing 1/8=9D removed from their threaded ends b efore > linking them with the brass threaded rod to facilitate more movement of t he > trim and stabilators on final inspection.( Hopefully you picked up on tha t > ?) > > My trim reversal problem was not to do with the trim motor but the relay > deck it had an inherent fault which became masked once the motor had > travelled to full trim and I had numerous major debates with the Menzemer > chaps always culminating in them alleging my wiring was at fault. Until o ne > day I had yet another event and when I contacted them I discovered that > they were now supplying the MARK II relay deck which is faultless but of > different shape also making it an arse to shift things around on the back > of the panel. > > You need to shout out on the Europa Club pages as to how many others have > had this problem and then probably =9Cbite the bullet=9D and get the MARK II > fitted and done with it. > > Regards > > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > > *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *William Daniell > *Sent:* 10 June 2014 14:50 > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > > Thanks...but you had a runaway trim? if is was a particular model I am > wondering whether I shd change my trim motor (Mac) prior to putting the t op > on (I cant imgaine this is much fun with the top on!) > > > William Daniell > > LONGPORT > > +57 310 295 0744 > > > On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Bob Harrison > wrote: > > Hi! William > > ................Just don=99t shorten the control stick ......use th e bent > one and fix it by rotating it to best position. > > Regards > > Bob Harrison. > > > *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *William Daniell > *Sent:* 10 June 2014 13:20 > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > > whassat....Bob I dont remember that issue can you enlighten on the trim > issue please > > Will > > > William Daniell > > LONGPORT > > +57 310 295 0744 > > > On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 AM, Lance Sandford > wrote: > > > > Bob > > Thanks Bob. That is about what I suspected. > > Regards > > Lance Sandford > > > On 10/06/14 18:09, Bob Harrison wrote: > > > Answer:- NO SHORTER WHATEVER. TO LAND FULLY NOSE UP TRIM IT WOULD BE > Extremely difficult on your own ! but power assisted by the passenger > probably ! But the extreme loads are a question over the mechanical > strengths of the linkages ! When I had to go to fully trimmed up to get > the damn relay deck to reverse it was easier to let it go fully nose up > trim and pray the deck would let itself reverse when it got to the end of > travel. Been there done that when Menzimer was insisting my problem was > wiring when in actual fact they eventually discovered that the end of the > travel by the relay masked the actual problem in the relay . Since I fitt ed > the MARK II relay deck never a problem !!!!! > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Sandford > Sent: 10 June 2014 01:13 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > --> > > Question for those who have test flown their Europa. > > How far can you shorten the control stick and still comfortably land the > aircraft with the stabilizer stuck at full travel in either direction , > without being Superman? > > Lance Sandford > > > ========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > ========== > MS - > k">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > e - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List * > > *http://forums.matronics.com * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution * > > > *arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List * > > *tp://forums.matronics.com * > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution * > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List * > > *http://forums.matronics.com * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution * > > > * > =========== tronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:35 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Wheel Shimmy, Again! From: "jonathanmilbank" Just over a year ago I completed converting my Classic from mono-wheel to tricycle, which is the cleverest thing I have done to my pride and joy since she first flew in July 1997. The nose-wheel assembly is bog standard with the normally supplied washers and friction disc. I was advised that if I "fanny around" as most others do following the instructions, trying to adjust for optimum friction and yet hoping to have smooth "turnability", I would be just as disappointed and frustrated as most others. The trick is: http://www.newgateonline.com/manufacturers/nye-lubricants/pg-44a-50gram-jar.html Apply sparingly to the friction disc, probably only on one side is necessary, but I unthinkingly smeared it on both sides. No harm done though. Thereafter tighten the stack of washers until, with the nose-wheel off the ground, it takes some effort to turn the wheel. Not too difficult and heavy, but you be the judge. The result is that even after a year the aircraft can be turned smoothly without stiction/jerkiness and shimmy just doesn't happen. I know what a sticky/jerky nose-wheel can be like because I fly heavy 19-seat helicopters for a living and this can be a problem when taxying to the runway. When you come back to praise and thank me for this advice, I'll tell you how to drop your climb oil temperature by 20C in a Classic with two water radiators and an oil cooler piggy-backing behind the left one. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424656#424656 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:01 PM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Annual inspection Hi Richard, Yes, I think so, but if in doubt ring Ken Craigie, LAA Chief Inspector. He invented the system Regards Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Iddon Sent: 10 June 2014 09:51 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Annual inspection Thanks Brian. Would an inspector rate A-A also be suitable? Richard. On 9 Jun 2014, at 19:20, Brian Davies wrote: > --> > > All LAA inspectors are granted approvals for one or more of 12 > different categories of aircraft. They are also granted approvals for > different tasks e.g. Final inspection before first flight. Go to the > LAA website and click on the Aircraft & Technical bar on the left and > the drop down menu has a "find an inspector" line. Put in your post > code and it will give you a list of inspectors and their approvals in > your area. You need an inspector approved for A-C2 ( all fixed wing > airframes of primarily composite > construction.) > > Regards > > Brian Davies > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard > Iddon > Sent: 09 June 2014 14:55 > To: Europa Forum > Subject: Europa-List: Annual inspection > > > My aircraft is due its annual and my current inspector has retired. I > contacted a different inspector who told me that he couldn't inspect > my aircraft as it was 'complex'. I wasn't aware that a tri gear was a > complex aircraft. Can anyone enlighten me? > > Richard Iddon > > G-RIXS > > > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:54 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Annual inspection From: danny shepherd Ricky. I,m based at mona . My inspected is Pete whitehead based at sleep he,s quite to come over to mona. Preston is not that far from sleep. He,s a nice guy, I,m sure he,'ll be happy to help you out . All the best danny g ceri Brian Davies wrote: Hi Richard, Yes, I think so, but if in doubt ring Ken Craigie, LAA Chief Inspector. He invented the system Regards Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Iddon Sent: 10 June 2014 09:51 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Annual inspection Thanks Brian. Would an inspector rate A-A also be suitable? Richard. On 9 Jun 2014, at 19:20, Brian Davies wrote: > --> > > All LAA inspectors are granted approvals for one or more of 12 > different categories of aircraft. They are also granted approvals for > different tasks e.g. Final inspection before first flight. Go to the > LAA website and click on the Aircraft & Technical bar on the left and > the drop down menu has a "find an inspector" line. Put in your post > code and it will give you a list of inspectors and their approvals in > your area. You need an inspector approved for A-C2 ( all fixed wing > airframes of primarily composite > construction.) > > Regards > > Brian Davies > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard > Iddon > Sent: 09 June 2014 14:55 > To: Europa Forum > Subject: Europa-List: Annual inspection > > > My aircraft is due its annual and my current inspector has retired. I > contacted a different inspector who told me that he couldn't inspect > my aircraft as it was 'complex'. I wasn't aware that a tri gear was a > complex aircraft. Can anyone enlighten me? > > Richard Iddon > > G-RIXS > > > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:58 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips Now Runaway Trim control stick Loads...... Hi Bob, What is the Mk II model no please? Do you know how it is different, other th an shape which is a real bitch. Tony R. Sent from my iPad > On 11 Jun 2014, at 2:09 am, "Bob Harrison" wrote: > > Peter.....it is more than you would want for much more than 10 minutes. Pl ease note I have not been talking about a runaway situation. Just a rogue re lay deck not reversing until reaching the end of the travel. That has now b een rectified by fitting the MARK II relay from Ford Allan /Menzimer organis ation. > Regards > Bob Harrison. > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Zutrauen > Sent: 10 June 2014 14:30 > To: europa-list > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > approx how many pounds of push/pull stick force is it at cruise with a run away trim (with a stock length stick)? > > cheers & thx, > Pete > > > > On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Bob Harrison wrot e: > Hi! William > ................Just don=99t shorten the control stick ......use the bent one and fix it by rotating it to best position. > Regards > Bob Harrison. > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell > Sent: 10 June 2014 13:20 > > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > whassat....Bob I dont remember that issue can you enlighten on the trim is sue please > Will > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > > > On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 AM, Lance Sandford w rote: > > Bob > > Thanks Bob. That is about what I suspected. > > Regards > > Lance Sandford > > > On 10/06/14 18:09, Bob Harrison wrote: > > Answer:- NO SHORTER WHATEVER. TO LAND FULLY NOSE UP TRIM IT WOULD BE Extr emely difficult on your own ! but power assisted by the passenger probably ! But the extreme loads are a question over the mechanical strengths of the l inkages ! When I had to go to fully trimmed up to get the damn relay deck t o reverse it was easier to let it go fully nose up trim and pray the deck wo uld let itself reverse when it got to the end of travel. Been there done tha t when Menzimer was insisting my problem was wiring when in actual fact they eventually discovered that the end of the travel by the relay masked the ac tual problem in the relay . Since I fitted the MARK II relay deck never a pr oblem !!!!! > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Sandford > Sent: 10 June 2014 01:13 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > --> > > Question for those who have test flown their Europa. > > How far can you shorten the control stick and still comfortably land the a ircraft with the stabilizer stuck at full travel in either direction , witho ut being Superman? > > Lance Sandford > > > > > > ========================= > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > ========== > MS - > k">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > e - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:39 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips NOW TRIM MOTOR AND RELAY DECK. Hi Bob and William, Here is the relay deck. Not sure why we need one, or if, as to my knowledge I was never supplied one, nor have I checked the manual to see if it is inclu ded in the wiring diagram. Pretty remiss of Europa if the servo actually nee ds one of these things, which is why I am wondering if it is a mod, Bob. It s ays for every servo you need one of these relays. Does anyone know what they actually do, and why it states they are needed? I can run my servo directly from a 12 V power supply with no problem. Regards Tony Renshaw Sent from my iPad > On 11 Jun 2014, at 1:51 am, "Bob Harrison" wrote: > > Hi! William. > The question initially has revolved around the length of the control stick and loads needed when out of maximum trim. > My issue was nothing to do with the trim motor, however in your position y ou should plan the securing of it so that you would be able to remove it in a n unlikely eventuality of failure because when the top is on it is a bastard to access. However recently there was much chat about the plastic clevis es needing 1/8=9D removed from their threaded ends before linking them with the brass threaded rod to facilitate more movement of the trim and sta bilators on final inspection.( Hopefully you picked up on that ?) > My trim reversal problem was not to do with the trim motor but the relay d eck it had an inherent fault which became masked once the motor had travelle d to full trim and I had numerous major debates with the Menzemer chaps alwa ys culminating in them alleging my wiring was at fault. Until one day I had y et another event and when I contacted them I discovered that they were now s upplying the MARK II relay deck which is faultless but of different shape al so making it an arse to shift things around on the back of the panel. > You need to shout out on the Europa Club pages as to how many others have h ad this problem and then probably =9Cbite the bullet=9D and get t he MARK II fitted and done with it. > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell > Sent: 10 June 2014 14:50 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > Thanks...but you had a runaway trim? if is was a particular model I am wo ndering whether I shd change my trim motor (Mac) prior to putting the top on (I cant imgaine this is much fun with the top on!) > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > > > On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Bob Harrison wrot e: > Hi! William > ................Just don=99t shorten the control stick ......use the bent one and fix it by rotating it to best position. > Regards > Bob Harrison. > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell > Sent: 10 June 2014 13:20 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > whassat....Bob I dont remember that issue can you enlighten on the trim is sue please > Will > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > > > On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 AM, Lance Sandford w rote: > > Bob > > Thanks Bob. That is about what I suspected. > > Regards > > Lance Sandford > > > On 10/06/14 18:09, Bob Harrison wrote: > > Answer:- NO SHORTER WHATEVER. TO LAND FULLY NOSE UP TRIM IT WOULD BE Extr emely difficult on your own ! but power assisted by the passenger probably ! But the extreme loads are a question over the mechanical strengths of the l inkages ! When I had to go to fully trimmed up to get the damn relay deck t o reverse it was easier to let it go fully nose up trim and pray the deck wo uld let itself reverse when it got to the end of travel. Been there done tha t when Menzimer was insisting my problem was wiring when in actual fact they eventually discovered that the end of the travel by the relay masked the ac tual problem in the relay . Since I fitted the MARK II relay deck never a pr oblem !!!!! > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Sandford > Sent: 10 June 2014 01:13 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips > > --> > > Question for those who have test flown their Europa. > > How far can you shorten the control stick and still comfortably land the a ircraft with the stabilizer stuck at full travel in either direction , witho ut being Superman? > > Lance Sandford > > > > > > ========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > ========== > MS - > k">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > e - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:37 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Headset Wiring Gidday, Can someone please confirm the wiring I want for my headsets is Trio Core? What is the third wire for? (this could be a dumb question, but hey, I=92m good at those) Regards Tony Renshaw Giday ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.