---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/11/14: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:34 AM - Re: Annual inspection (DAVID JOYCE) 2. 01:01 AM - Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?EUROFLY=99IN?= RSA - VICHY 2014 (Remi Guerner) 3. 01:16 AM - Re: Stick Grips NOW TRIM MOTOR AND RELAY DECK. (Bob Harrison) 4. 01:21 AM - Re: Stick Grips Now Runaway Trim control stick Loads...... (Bob Harrison) 5. 03:49 AM - Re: Stick Grips NOW TRIM MOTOR AND RELAY DECK. (Brian Davies) 6. 06:59 AM - Re: Headset Wiring (h&jeuropa) 7. 09:08 AM - Re: europa dash panel (Rowland Carson) 8. 05:35 PM - Re: Re: europa dash panel (PETER MORGANS) 9. 07:57 PM - Re: Re: europa dash panel (Tony Renshaw) 10. 10:36 PM - Re: europa dash panel (spcialeffects) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:19 AM PST US From: DAVID JOYCE Subject: Re: Europa-List: Annual inspection Neil France is also mobile and resides in Derbyshire, I would not let anyon e else inspect my Europa (Tri Gear).=0A=0AHe flys in-using his own Kit Fo x, does a sterling and methodical job and flys out again (it is preferable you are there as lots to learn) he presents a more than acceptable bill.=0A =0Ahope this helps?=0A=0Argds=0ADJ=0Athe other one-=0ASent to you-by Da vid Joyce=0Awww.eastmidsspas.com- =0A-=0APLEASE NOTE WE HAVE MOVED AND ARE NOW AT=0AThe Zycomm Building 51 Nottingham Road Ripley Derbys DE5 3AS =0A160 Meters from Sainsbury's Island=0A-=0ASame Phone 0800 4102122 and D irect Mobile 07973 675755=0A-=0A =0A=0A________________________________ =0A From: danny shepherd =0ATo: Matronics =0ASent: Tuesday, 10 June 2014, 20:37=0ASubject: Re: danny shepherd =0A=0ARicky. I,m based at mona . My inspected is Pete whitehead based at sleep he,s quite to come over to m ona. Preston is not that far from sleep. He,s a nice guy, I,m sure he,'ll b e happy to help you out .- All the best danny g ceri=0A=0ABrian Davies w ra.co.uk>=0A=0AHi Richard,=0A=0AYes, I think so, but if in doubt ring Ken C raigie, LAA Chief Inspector.- He=0Ainvented the system=0A=0ARegards=0A=0A Brian=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-europa-list-server@matr onics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ri chard Iddon=0ASent: 10 June 2014 09:51=0ATo: Europa Forum=0ASubject: Re: Eu d Iddon =0A=0AThanks Brian.=0A=0AWould an inspector rate A -A also be suitable?- =0A=0ARichard.=0A=0AOn 9 Jun 2014, at 19:20, Brian Davies wrote:=0A=0A> --> Europa-List message pos ted by: "Brian Davies" =0A> --> =0A> =0A> All LAA inspectors are granted approvals for one or more of 12 =0A> different cate gories of aircraft.- They are also granted approvals for =0A> different t asks e.g. Final inspection before first flight.- Go to the =0A> LAA websi te and click on the Aircraft & Technical bar on the left and =0A> the drop down menu has a "find an inspector" line.- Put in your post =0A> code and it will give you a list of inspectors and their approvals in =0A> your are a. You need an inspector approved for A-C2 ( all fixed wing =0A> airframes of primarily composite=0A> construction.)=0A> =0A> Regards=0A> =0A> Brian D avies=0A> =0A> -----Original Message-----=0A> From: owner-europa-list-serve r@matronics.com=0A> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Beha lf Of Richard =0A> Iddon=0A> Sent: 09 June 2014 14:55=0A> To: Europa Forum =0A> Subject: Europa-List: Annual inspection=0A> =0A> --> Europa-List messa ge posted by: Richard Iddon =0A> =0A> My aircraft is due i ts annual and my current inspector has retired. I =0A> contacted a differen t inspector who told me that he couldn't inspect =0A> my aircraft as it was 'complex'. I wasn't aware that a tri gear was a =0A> complex aircraft. Can anyone enlighten me?=0A> =0A> Richard Iddon=0A> =0A> G-RIXS=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> -----=0A> No virus found in this message.=0A> Checked b y AVG - www.avg.com=0A> =0A> -----=0A> No virus found in this message.=0A> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A-----=0ANo virus found in this message.=0AChecked by AVG - www.avg.co ====================== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:01:58 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?EUROFLY=99IN?= RSA - VICHY 2014 From: "Remi Guerner" I will be there Saturday Sunday. We usually have half a dozen french Europas most of them staying only a few hours and some more from UK. It proved to be very difficult to arrange a dedicated parking area due to the lack of ground volunteers to handle the task. See you there Remi F-PGKL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424690#424690 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:16:12 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stick Grips NOW TRIM MOTOR AND RELAY DECK. Hi! Tony William and all, Hey ! Don=99t put me down as an authority on all things electrical please. No way am I competent in this regard. However I would expect that a relay does two things One :- it acts as a preliminary switching device to save full power going through your micro switches . Two :- it ensures that the polarity of the current is not crossed in a circuit that employs reversed current operation.(Like in duplicated switching of the same operation from both panel and control stick top. The original Europa Kit no doubt presumed that you will utilise a switch big enough to handle full power but then left you to get the switches ! NOW perhaps someone will pop their heads and help you with some better knowledge on subject than me. please. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw Sent: 10 June 2014 23:50 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips NOW TRIM MOTOR AND RELAY DECK. Hi Bob and William, Here is the relay deck. Not sure why we need one, or if, as to my knowledge I was never supplied one, nor have I checked the manual to see if it is included in the wiring diagram. Pretty remiss of Europa if the servo actually needs one of these things, which is why I am wondering if it is a mod, Bob. It says for every servo you need one of these relays. Does anyone know what they actually do, and why it states they are needed? I can run my servo directly from a 12 V power supply with no problem. Regards Tony Renshaw Sent from my iPad On 11 Jun 2014, at 1:51 am, "Bob Harrison" wrote: Hi! William. The question initially has revolved around the length of the control stick and loads needed when out of maximum trim. My issue was nothing to do with the trim motor, however in your position you should plan the securing of it so that you would be able to remove it in an unlikely eventuality of failure because when the top is on it is a bastard to access. However recently there was much chat about the plastic clevises needing 1/8=9D removed from their threaded ends before linking them with the brass threaded rod to facilitate more movement of the trim and stabilators on final inspection.( Hopefully you picked up on that ?) My trim reversal problem was not to do with the trim motor but the relay deck it had an inherent fault which became masked once the motor had travelled to full trim and I had numerous major debates with the Menzemer chaps always culminating in them alleging my wiring was at fault. Until one day I had yet another event and when I contacted them I discovered that they were now supplying the MARK II relay deck which is faultless but of different shape also making it an arse to shift things around on the back of the panel. You need to shout out on the Europa Club pages as to how many others have had this problem and then probably =9Cbite the bullet=9D and get the MARK II fitted and done with it. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 10 June 2014 14:50 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips Thanks...but you had a runaway trim? if is was a particular model I am wondering whether I shd change my trim motor (Mac) prior to putting the top on (I cant imgaine this is much fun with the top on!) William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Bob Harrison wrote: Hi! William ................Just don=99t shorten the control stick ......use the bent one and fix it by rotating it to best position. Regards Bob Harrison. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 10 June 2014 13:20 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips whassat....Bob I dont remember that issue can you enlighten on the trim issue please Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 AM, Lance Sandford wrote: Bob Thanks Bob. That is about what I suspected. Regards Lance Sandford On 10/06/14 18:09, Bob Harrison wrote: Answer:- NO SHORTER WHATEVER. TO LAND FULLY NOSE UP TRIM IT WOULD BE Extremely difficult on your own ! but power assisted by the passenger probably ! But the extreme loads are a question over the mechanical strengths of the linkages ! When I had to go to fully trimmed up to get the damn relay deck to reverse it was easier to let it go fully nose up trim and pray the deck would let itself reverse when it got to the end of travel. Been there done that when Menzimer was insisting my problem was wiring when in actual fact they eventually discovered that the end of the travel by the relay masked the actual problem in the relay . Since I fitted the MARK II relay deck never a problem !!!!! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Sandford Sent: 10 June 2014 01:13 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips --> Question for those who have test flown their Europa. How far can you shorten the control stick and still comfortably land the aircraft with the stabilizer stuck at full travel in either direction , without being Superman? Lance Sandford st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List MS - k">http://forums.matronics.com e - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D //forums.matronics.com D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:21:31 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stick Grips Now Runaway Trim control stick Loads...... Hi! Tony, MARK II relay deck was produced by the Menzimer organisation to eliminate a switching reversal problem in the MARK I ...... as I have said in the other message if your panel switch alone in happy using full power it is probable that it doesn=99t require a relay to protect it. I would expect that Menzimers no longer produce the MARK I so no chance of mixing them if you order one. However ensure that your switch is happy handling full power in regular use. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw Sent: 10 June 2014 23:43 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips Now Runaway Trim control stick Loads...... Hi Bob, What is the Mk II model no please? Do you know how it is different, other than shape which is a real bitch. Tony R. Sent from my iPad On 11 Jun 2014, at 2:09 am, "Bob Harrison" wrote: Peter.....it is more than you would want for much more than 10 minutes. Please note I have not been talking about a runaway situation. Just a rogue relay deck not reversing until reaching the end of the travel. That has now been rectified by fitting the MARK II relay from Ford Allan /Menzimer organisation. Regards Bob Harrison. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Zutrauen Sent: 10 June 2014 14:30 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips approx how many pounds of push/pull stick force is it at cruise with a runaway trim (with a stock length stick)? cheers & thx, Pete On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Bob Harrison wrote: Hi! William ................Just don=99t shorten the control stick ......use the bent one and fix it by rotating it to best position. Regards Bob Harrison. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 10 June 2014 13:20 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips whassat....Bob I dont remember that issue can you enlighten on the trim issue please Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 AM, Lance Sandford wrote: Bob Thanks Bob. That is about what I suspected. Regards Lance Sandford On 10/06/14 18:09, Bob Harrison wrote: Answer:- NO SHORTER WHATEVER. TO LAND FULLY NOSE UP TRIM IT WOULD BE Extremely difficult on your own ! but power assisted by the passenger probably ! But the extreme loads are a question over the mechanical strengths of the linkages ! When I had to go to fully trimmed up to get the damn relay deck to reverse it was easier to let it go fully nose up trim and pray the deck would let itself reverse when it got to the end of travel. Been there done that when Menzimer was insisting my problem was wiring when in actual fact they eventually discovered that the end of the travel by the relay masked the actual problem in the relay . Since I fitted the MARK II relay deck never a problem !!!!! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Sandford Sent: 10 June 2014 01:13 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips --> Question for those who have test flown their Europa. How far can you shorten the control stick and still comfortably land the aircraft with the stabilizer stuck at full travel in either direction , without being Superman? Lance Sandford st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List MS - k">http://forums.matronics.com e - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D //forums.matronics.com D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:13 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stick Grips NOW TRIM MOTOR AND RELAY DECK. Tony, You only need one if you are controlling trim from more than one source. e.g. panel switch and stick grip switches or both stick grips. The standard Europa configuration does not need a relay deck. Regards Brian From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw Sent: 10 June 2014 23:50 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips NOW TRIM MOTOR AND RELAY DECK. Hi Bob and William, Here is the relay deck. Not sure why we need one, or if, as to my knowledge I was never supplied one, nor have I checked the manual to see if it is included in the wiring diagram. Pretty remiss of Europa if the servo actually needs one of these things, which is why I am wondering if it is a mod, Bob. It says for every servo you need one of these relays. Does anyone know what they actually do, and why it states they are needed? I can run my servo directly from a 12 V power supply with no problem. Regards Tony Renshaw Sent from my iPad On 11 Jun 2014, at 1:51 am, "Bob Harrison" wrote: Hi! William. The question initially has revolved around the length of the control stick and loads needed when out of maximum trim. My issue was nothing to do with the trim motor, however in your position you should plan the securing of it so that you would be able to remove it in an unlikely eventuality of failure because when the top is on it is a bastard to access. However recently there was much chat about the plastic clevises needing 1/8=9D removed from their threaded ends before linking them with the brass threaded rod to facilitate more movement of the trim and stabilators on final inspection.( Hopefully you picked up on that ?) My trim reversal problem was not to do with the trim motor but the relay deck it had an inherent fault which became masked once the motor had travelled to full trim and I had numerous major debates with the Menzemer chaps always culminating in them alleging my wiring was at fault. Until one day I had yet another event and when I contacted them I discovered that they were now supplying the MARK II relay deck which is faultless but of different shape also making it an arse to shift things around on the back of the panel. You need to shout out on the Europa Club pages as to how many others have had this problem and then probably =9Cbite the bullet=9D and get the MARK II fitted and done with it. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 10 June 2014 14:50 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips Thanks...but you had a runaway trim? if is was a particular model I am wondering whether I shd change my trim motor (Mac) prior to putting the top on (I cant imgaine this is much fun with the top on!) William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Bob Harrison wrote: Hi! William ................Just don=99t shorten the control stick ......use the bent one and fix it by rotating it to best position. Regards Bob Harrison. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 10 June 2014 13:20 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips whassat....Bob I dont remember that issue can you enlighten on the trim issue please Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 AM, Lance Sandford wrote: Bob Thanks Bob. That is about what I suspected. Regards Lance Sandford On 10/06/14 18:09, Bob Harrison wrote: Answer:- NO SHORTER WHATEVER. TO LAND FULLY NOSE UP TRIM IT WOULD BE Extremely difficult on your own ! but power assisted by the passenger probably ! But the extreme loads are a question over the mechanical strengths of the linkages ! When I had to go to fully trimmed up to get the damn relay deck to reverse it was easier to let it go fully nose up trim and pray the deck would let itself reverse when it got to the end of travel. Been there done that when Menzimer was insisting my problem was wiring when in actual fact they eventually discovered that the end of the travel by the relay masked the actual problem in the relay . Since I fitted the MARK II relay deck never a problem !!!!! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Sandford Sent: 10 June 2014 01:13 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stick Grips --> Question for those who have test flown their Europa. How far can you shorten the control stick and still comfortably land the aircraft with the stabilizer stuck at full travel in either direction , without being Superman? Lance Sandford st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List MS - k">http://forums.matronics.com e - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D //forums.matronics.com D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06/10/14 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:52 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Headset Wiring From: "h&jeuropa" Tony, Your audio panel or intercom install manual should have detailed instructions. Follow them. PS Engineering has a good website with lots of information on audio panels and intercoms. You can download any of their install manuals to see the wiring diagram. In general the microphone needs three wires inside a shield like you've selected. A wire each for audio, audio ground and push to talk. The shield is not connected at the jack, only at the audio panel or intercom. In theory you really don't need the push to talk in the shielded cable, it could be a separate 18-22 ga wire since it is only operating a relay but usually a three wire cable is used for simplicity. The headphone depends on whether you have a mono or stereo audio panel / intercom. If stereo, then three wires in a shield , left audio, right audio and audio ground. Shield not connected at the jack, only at the audio panel / intercom. If mono, only two wires in a shield needed, audio and audio ground. If you purchase three conductor cable (like that you show) and are using a mono setup, just parallel two of the conductors to make it a two conductor cable - for example, connect yellow and white together at each end. The headphone and microphone jacks should be isolated from the panel. If you are using the Europa module, this is automatically done since the panel is not conductive. If you have metal panels in the Europa module, then isolate the jacks with bushings available from B&C or ACS. Jim Butcher N241BW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424703#424703 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:18 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: europa dash panel From: Rowland Carson On 11 Jun 2014, at 13:31, Andy Jones wrote: > Hello, > > A couple of weeks ago I had a phone call regarding the cutting of another dash panel, cant remember the guys name, said he was down in Merthyr Tydfil.. > > He was going to send a profile drawing, but as yet I have seen nothing, do you know who he was? He had seen your panel which I cut for you last year.. > > Regards > > Andy Andy - I seem to recall a query on the Europa builders e-mail list a while back, but I can't locate it just now. I'm copying this reply to the Europa e-mail list in the hope that it will jog the appropriate person into getting in touch with you again. Is anyone on the Europa list in Merthyr Tydfil trying to get in touch with Andy at Herbert Phillips about water-jet cutting of an instrument panel? Incidentally, Andy, I must say how pleased I am with the results of your water-jet cutting. Here's a link to how the panel looks now that I have had it anodized black, the labels laser-etched on it, and the instruments installed. http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/radio_panel_populated.php in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:31 PM PST US From: PETER MORGANS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: europa dash panel Hi Rowland,=0AIt's probably me - I spoke with Andy a couple of weeks ago af ter reading your excellent article In the Europa Flyer; I've=C2-just spen t so much time deciding which panel layout to use and what would fit I the space available. I think I'm there now, so will send off .dxf to Andy. Atta ched is pdf of my AutoCAD dwg.=0AIt was so nice to speak to someone with th e 'can do' attitude.=0AI mentioned your article and was going to send him a copy.=0A=0AIncidentally, I'm down in Milford Haven so there might be also someone else in Merthyr.=0ARegards=0APeter Morgans=0A =0A=0A_______________ _________________=0A From: Rowland Carson =0ATo: E uropa e-mail list list =0ASent: Wednesday, 11 J une 2014, 16:58=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: europa dash panel=0A =0A=0A--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson =0A =0AOn 11 Jun 2014, at 13:31, Andy Jones wrote:=0A=0A> Hello,=0A> =0A> A cou ple of weeks ago I=C2- had a phone call regarding=C2- the cutting of an other dash panel, can=99t remember the guys name, said he was down in Merthyr Tydfil..=0A> =0A> He was going to send a profile drawing, but as y et I have seen nothing,=C2- do you know who he was?=C2- He had seen you r panel which I cut for you last year..=0A> =0A> Regards=0A> =0A> Andy=0A =0AAndy - I seem to recall a query on the Europa builders e-mail list a whi le back, but I can't locate it just now. I'm copying this reply to the Euro pa e-mail list in the hope that it will jog the appropriate person into get ting in touch with you again.=0A=0AIs anyone on the Europa list in Merthyr Tydfil trying to get in touch with Andy at Herbert Phillips about water-jet cutting of an instrument panel?=0A=0AIncidentally, Andy, I must say how pl eased I am with the results of your water-jet cutting. Here's a link to how the panel looks now that I have had it anodized black, the labels laser-et ched on it, and the instruments installed.=0A=0Ahttp://www.rowlandcarson.or g.uk/aviation/europa_435/radio_panel_populated.php=0A=0Ain friendship=0A=0A Rowland=0A=0A| Rowland Carson=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...=0A| =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/=0A| Skype, Twitter: r owland_carson=C2- =C2- =C2- Facebook: Rowland Carson=0A| pictures: ht =========================0A =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 =================== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:55 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: europa dash panel hi Peter, Before you fully decide, have a look at this panel by Gerry Holland. Hope this helps rather than hinders. I think it is the best panel I have seen on a Europa. Regards Tony Renshaw I=92m going to stick with my smaller panel though, but I do love this. On 12 Jun 2014, at 10:34 am, PETER MORGANS wrote: > Hi Rowland, > It's probably me - I spoke with Andy a couple of weeks ago after reading your excellent article In the Europa Flyer; I've just spent so much time deciding which panel layout to use and what would fit I the space available. I think I'm there now, so will send off .dxf to Andy. Attached is pdf of my AutoCAD dwg. > It was so nice to speak to someone with the 'can do' attitude. > I mentioned your article and was going to send him a copy. > > Incidentally, I'm down in Milford Haven so there might be also someone else in Merthyr. > Regards > Peter Morgans > From: Rowland Carson > To: Europa e-mail list list > Sent: Wednesday, 11 June 2014, 16:58 > Subject: Europa-List: Re: europa dash panel > > > On 11 Jun 2014, at 13:31, Andy Jones wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > A couple of weeks ago I had a phone call regarding the cutting of another dash panel, can=92t remember the guys name, said he was down in Merthyr Tydfil.. > > > > He was going to send a profile drawing, but as yet I have seen nothing, do you know who he was? He had seen your panel which I cut for you last year.. > > > > Regards > > > > Andy > > Andy - I seem to recall a query on the Europa builders e-mail list a while back, but I can't locate it just now. I'm copying this reply to the Europa e-mail list in the hope that it will jog the appropriate person into getting in touch with you again. > > Is anyone on the Europa list in Merthyr Tydfil trying to get in touch with Andy at Herbert Phillips about water-jet cutting of an instrument panel? > > Incidentally, Andy, I must say how pleased I am with the results of your water-jet cutting. Here's a link to how the panel looks now that I have had it anodized black, the labels laser-etched on it, and the instruments installed. > > http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/radio_panel_populated. php > > in friendship > > Rowland > http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/ target="_blank">htt &nbs//www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co=========== ====== > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:09 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: europa dash panel From: "spcialeffects" I agree tony, that's a great usable panel only question is how did he get it through the LAA?? In the UK all mods have to be documented and approved. I would like to have full width panel in my europa by the paperwork is just too much plus you can never seem to get hole of anyone at the laa. So Gerry Holland if your reading this please let us know how you got this approved. 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