Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:49 AM - Re: Re: Red Top Battery (Varley aka DMS) low voltage (Brian Davies)
2. 02:06 AM - Re: Flap Actuator Load Calcs.....how do I do it?? (jonathanmilbank)
3. 02:14 AM - Re: Re: Flap Actuator Load Calcs.....how do I do it?? (Tony Renshaw)
4. 02:35 AM - Re: Trim damper and sticking the top on. (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
5. 03:07 AM - Re: Flap Actuator Load Calcs.....how do I do it?? (jonathanmilbank)
6. 09:11 AM - Re: Trim damper and sticking the top on. (Fred Klein)
7. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: Flap Actuator Load Calcs.....how do I do it?? (Brian Davies)
8. 03:09 PM - Re: Re: Flap Actuator Load Calcs.....how do I do it?? (Tony Renshaw)
9. 07:27 PM - Re: Re: Clevice \Forks debacle......... (Bud Yerly)
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| Subject: | Re: Red Top Battery (Varley aka DMS) low voltage |
Varley do not offer advice for deeply discharged batteries but Odyssey do.
Both batteries are the same technology so you could try the advice in the
attached files. Basically, it involves connecting a full charged battery to
the terminals of the discharged battery for a short period to kick start it
so that an intelligent charger can then start the charge cycle. I would not
have risked this if it had not been recommended by a battery manufacturer!
Regards
Brian Davies
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigoris
Sent: 14 June 2014 22:02
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Red Top Battery (Varley aka DMS) low voltage
--> <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hi John
You need a "Dumb" Charger if you have any chance at all. If you have or can
find a constant charger that outputs between 250 and 750 miliAmps.
Let it run until you get to 15.5 volts. With a 500 mA charger this will take
days and days if the battery has sulfided. It's possible the battery is
beyond bringing back to life, but the shorter the time you leave it dwell
below 12.5 volts, the worst off you are. By allowing the battery to dwell
above 14.4 volts and up to 15.5 volts at a very small current seems to do
very good things to break up any sulfation. Monitor often the voltage during
this process. Listen for excess activity with your ear on the battery over
14.4 volts. I have used 250 to 500mA on 18aH batteries, 1,000 mAs seemed a
bit too much, I'm thinking 750mA may be OK?
Let us know how you make out.
Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424838#424838
-----
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| Subject: | Re: Flap Actuator Load Calcs.....how do I do it?? |
When I converted my mono-wheel to tri-gear a year and a half ago, I took the good
advice of not installing an electric motor for the flaps, which would have
added weight, complication and possibly less reliability.
So my flaps are raised and lowered manually using the originally installed lever
for combined flap-undercarriage operation. Obviously when the mono-wheel got
removed, so did the bungee and outriggers.
You could hardly wish for a lighter easier method and the change in dynamic air
load throughout the range is barely noticeable. So don't worry, be happy!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424860#424860
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| Subject: | Re: Flap Actuator Load Calcs.....how do I do it?? |
Hi Jonathan,
Thank you for the input, and whilst there is potential complexity, Im pretty happy
with the product I have sourced.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Search?query=actuator
I have more confidence with my equipment now. Appreciated
Regards
Tony Renshaw
On 15 Jun 2014, at 7:06 pm, jonathanmilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> When I converted my mono-wheel to tri-gear a year and a half ago, I took the
good advice of not installing an electric motor for the flaps, which would have
added weight, complication and possibly less reliability.
>
> So my flaps are raised and lowered manually using the originally installed lever
for combined flap-undercarriage operation. Obviously when the mono-wheel got
removed, so did the bungee and outriggers.
>
> You could hardly wish for a lighter easier method and the change in dynamic air
load throughout the range is barely noticeable. So don't worry, be happy!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424860#424860
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Trim damper and sticking the top on. |
Will=0AHave you adjusted the pitch control limits to give 5 degrees nose do
wn deflection and 13 deg. up?=0APretty awkward to do with the top on but ea
sy at this stage=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matr
onics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 15 June 2014, 0:34=0ASubject: Europa-List: Trim
damper and sticking the top on.=0A =0A=0A=0AYesterday I got permission from
the inspector to turn my canoe into and airplane. -But before i stick th
e top on can I ask the general wisdom for gotchas.=0A=0AI have done install
ed pretty much everything I can,,,I think. -All the tail assembly, the pi
tch containment plywood thing and the electrics. -The coax for the antenn
a. -Installed the battery the main gear and the flap actuator system, set
the wing incidence...=0A=0AAnything else I should have done?=0A=0AI have o
ne specific question...how tight should the pitch trim damper be? I cant se
e in the manual that specifies.=0A=0A=0AAnd anyone have any advice for the
best method for sticking the top on?=0A=0Athanks in advance=0A=0AWill=0A=0A
=======
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| Subject: | Re: Flap Actuator Load Calcs.....how do I do it?? |
Just thoughts and I'm sure you've had them too. Anyway, my undercarriage/flap operating
lever is in the order of a foot long, giving quite an advantage.
Are you going to connect the linear actuator straight on to the end of the flap
push-rod, or are you going to incorporate some sort of bell-crank linkage to
increase the leverage? Presumably there would be a limit to the length of bell-crank
arm before the linear actuator would run out of travel range.
The actuator can be "inched", no doubt. Just curious and I would love to see a
diagram of your proposed flap actuating system, if ever you can find the time.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424863#424863
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| Subject: | Re: Trim damper and sticking the top on. |
Will,
As tempting as it may be to cross the =93top bonding threshold=94, in my
case I was content to mate top to canoe with clecos spaced at 12=94 o.c.
until the very last possible moment=85that is=85until I had scoured the
build manual thoroughly and literally could NOT find ANYTHING whatsoever
which did not ABSOLUTELY REQUIRE the top to have been bonded on in order
to accomplish it. And you have to be thinking of things you want to do
with your build which are in addition to the standard kit which may have
no mention in the manual.
When I say use clecoes, I=92m not relying upon the dozen little threaded
temporary fasteners which came w/ the kit, because IMO if you defer top
bonding beyond the stage cited in the manual, it is critical to use a
sufficient number of fasteners to ensure that the geometry of the
fuselage is fixed and not subject to wobble or twist. I had bought (I
think 100) of the push pull clecos which are popped in and out w/ a
simple little proprietary tool.
Doing this allowed me, for example, to fully install all my fuel pumps
and plumbing, strobe power supply and wiring with ease=85I even sprayed
my Zolatone finish w/ the canoe upside down and was able to hit the
wells in the baggage bay without contortions=85(of course, I had to go
back and hit the joint between top and canoe later but that was a snap
and the color blended perfectly).
Obviously, when approaching the various tasks out of sequence, one must
keep in mind that things must be positioned for future maintenance, etc.
But I recall marveling on a number of occasions how challenging many
little tasks would have been if I had not followed the sequence that I
had.
When you finally reach the point of actual bonding, a tip I learned from
Kingsley Hurst was to make up, in advance, some little fiberglass
=93washers=94=85I think I made up some w/ 2 layers of BID and some w/ 4
layers of BID. So at every cleco, I would use a washer of the required
thickness to bring the exterior surface of the top and canoe flush w/
one another thus saving the weight, time, and trouble of applying and
sanding an excessive amount of filler to eliminate the appearance of a
seam. I noted at each cleco the number and thickness of washers
required. Of course this technique relies on the ability of Redux / flox
to bridge the resulting gap resulting from the thickness of the washers,
so use plenty of material to ensure the seam is fully filled and bonded.
Good luck,
Fred
On Jun 14, 2014, at 4:34 PM, William Daniell
<wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yesterday I got permission from the inspector to turn my canoe into
and airplane. But before i stick the top on can I ask the general
wisdom for gotchas.
>
> I have done installed pretty much everything I can,,,I think. All the
tail assembly, the pitch containment plywood thing and the electrics.
The coax for the antenna. Installed the battery the main gear and the
flap actuator system, set the wing incidence...
>
> Anything else I should have done?
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Flap Actuator Load Calcs.....how do I do it?? |
There is not a lot wrong with the standard Trigear flap actuator. Bolts
straight on the existing linkage.
Brian Davies
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jonathanmilbank
Sent: 15 June 2014 11:07
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Flap Actuator Load Calcs.....how do I do it??
--> <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
Just thoughts and I'm sure you've had them too. Anyway, my
undercarriage/flap operating lever is in the order of a foot long, giving
quite an advantage.
Are you going to connect the linear actuator straight on to the end of the
flap push-rod, or are you going to incorporate some sort of bell-crank
linkage to increase the leverage? Presumably there would be a limit to the
length of bell-crank arm before the linear actuator would run out of travel
range.
The actuator can be "inched", no doubt. Just curious and I would love to see
a diagram of your proposed flap actuating system, if ever you can find the
time.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424863#424863
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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| Subject: | Re: Flap Actuator Load Calcs.....how do I do it?? |
Hi Joathan,
Normal flap actuator to the same attachment on the flap torque tube. Just probably
another brand of actuator and mine comes with a three button controller. You
can pre-program the positions or press two buttons at once for incremental
positioning.
www.speedwaymotors.com
Search for actuators.
American product from manufacturer
www.iaexim.com
Regards
Tony Renshaw
Sent from my iPad
> On 16 Jun 2014, at 4:33 am, "Brian Davies" <brian.davies@clara.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> There is not a lot wrong with the standard Trigear flap actuator. Bolts
> straight on the existing linkage.
>
> Brian Davies
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jonathanmilbank
> Sent: 15 June 2014 11:07
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Flap Actuator Load Calcs.....how do I do it??
>
> --> <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
>
> Just thoughts and I'm sure you've had them too. Anyway, my
> undercarriage/flap operating lever is in the order of a foot long, giving
> quite an advantage.
>
> Are you going to connect the linear actuator straight on to the end of the
> flap push-rod, or are you going to incorporate some sort of bell-crank
> linkage to increase the leverage? Presumably there would be a limit to the
> length of bell-crank arm before the linear actuator would run out of travel
> range.
>
> The actuator can be "inched", no doubt. Just curious and I would love to see
> a diagram of your proposed flap actuating system, if ever you can find the
> time.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424863#424863
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Clevice \Forks debacle......... |
Tony
I am out of town on family/Europa family visits combining work and pleasure
. Our first trip together for Anita and I in years. Short I phone answer:
Please consult Allied Electronics (alliedelec.com). I use Amp/Tyco or Nort
hwest D sub connectors. They have crimp connectors from #30-#18 gauge wire
. Trim servos are normally #26 sized.
Buy the pins and keep on hand in assorted bins. Aircraft avionics use most
ly 22=2C20 and for higher power 18.
I buy the assortment of pins that cover a range. 22-24=2C 20-22=2C and for
higher amps 18=2C
Buy descent crimpers of the ratchet type and practice.
I do D subs everywhere. If I need a interior quick disconnect I use a D su
b or the very small Molex with square connectors.
Solder has to be practiced and MUST prevent wicking to prevent cracking. O
f you are good at it go for it.
Regards=2C
Bud
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bud=2C
Reviewing my emails I noticed your thorough input below to my trim question
. I posted recently=2C some time later=2C my conclusions=2C which aerodynam
ically I will vouch for=2C but=2C it is contrary to what you recommended. T
he manual omits to tell you the orientation of the rivet pattern=2C which h
as been the root of my dilemma. My components conflict because of the rivet
head=2C which is a real irritation. I often build too fine tolerances=2C w
hich is probably a common perfectionist trait=2C but it commonly creates p
roblems=2C like this one. I am chasing around trying to get all the pitch c
ircuit sorted=2C with the top on and off trying to get the counterweight th
row sorted too=2C so that the tailplane hits the bump stops before physical
stops. As I did it years ago=2C I am relearning everything including solde
ring and fine wire connections for the RC Allen servo and position gauge. I
would like to know what form of connector you recommend on the fine wires
of the poaition indicator? I could solder on a D-Sub fitting but would pref
er a Fast-On crimp but they dont seem to suit below a #22 AWG wire. I also
have to get the indicator's connector through the panel hole=2C because as
i recall it is slid into the hole and rests in place with a surrounding fla
nge. I am in Tokyo=2C so cant check at the moment=2C but the implication is
that my connector needs to go through the hole=2C and the wires are not th
at long out if the position indicator to not get it right the first=2C or a
t a pinch=2C the second time.
Seems my cranked control sticks with my Tosten grips are going to give me g
rief too=2C as they sit ontop if the stick=2C through a 1" insert=2C so the
sticks have been cut down as much as possible but still conflict with my p
anel. I might have to cut and weld in an insert in the middle portion of th
e stick. It currently doesnt seem to come back far enough at full aft stick
=2C as its only mid thigh. I reckon it should come back till my left elbow
is against the seat back would be a good geometry test=2C so I need to get
it back more. I have a fence arrangement around the bottom of my sticks=2C
to attach a leather boot=2C and stop FOD jamming the controls=2C but it now
makes iy very awkward for me to get in there to try and lengthen the link
rod=2C to crank back the entire range. So=2C still a work in progress=2C bu
t I was told to work from the back forward=2C which is why I'm messing arou
nd with trim units. So Bud=2C if you've got any tips about small wire conne
ctors=2C i'll soak it up with thanks.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
> On 24 May 2014=2C at 12:03=2C Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>
> Tony=2C
> In Annex E it says:
> Check that trim bellcrank does not contact TS05 push-rod when fully aft (
tab full up) and tailplane is
>
> trailing edge up.
>
> This should be in Chapter 19 also but is not as it is assumed when checki
ng clearances.
>
> If I read you correctly=2C I am just repeating what others have said I am
afraid. With the stab full up and trim rod full down=2C the TS05=2C T sha
ped trim push rod=2C should not contact the TS 03 bell crank long arm side
where the trim clevises attach at full up stab (I use 13 degrees full up).
The clevis from the motor to the clevis on the TS03 butt against one anoth
er on the #8 rod attaching them. If you look with the stabs all done=2C tr
im tabs on=2C and fully extended trim motor=2C look hard at the TS05 trim r
od and it normally just contacts the clevis. Simply take it apart=2C(it is
an airplane so if you haven't taken it apart and put it together 5 times
=2C you are doing it wrong.) cut 1/16 inch from each clevis and reassemble
and test. 1/8 inch off each is the most I have done. At this time check t
he TS05 trim push rod does not rub against the slot in the bulkhead it pass
es through. This is very hard to do with the top on.
>
> Nice to catch it now with the top off rather than go in and try to do it
after the top is on=2C especially with the inspection hole size recommended
by the manual.
>
> Now something not in the manual and is very embarrassing:
> I found one of my aircraft with the nyloc nut which holds the TS03 to the
TS04 (spring and washer thingy) and its check nut were loose. As the damp
er unit moves=2C it vibrated a bit and to my distress=2C the TS04 was a bit
floppy. This has never happened to me. Easy fix=2C a drop of Loctite and
tighten up was all it took. I use torque seal paint on all my bolts but n
ever put it on my nylock / check nut on the drag / dampener bolt as I never
thought this part would cause trouble... So a word to the wise=2C make th
is part of your final assembly check=2C and put a bit of torque seal paint
on your nuts on this part also.
>
> As far as mounting the trim servo=2C we do add an aluminum plate of .016
inches with 4 nut plates riveted on to it and the plate Reduxed and riveted
to the back side of the bulkhead. We use nut plates everywhere where we c
an't get to a nut easily. (Yes=2C it takes longer but we have not had good
luck with gluing a nut on over time.) We also use a #6 Allen head screw to
hold the trim motor on since it is easier to put an Allen screw driver bal
l head on it than a wrench should the trim motor need to be changed some ti
me in the way distant future. (I've never had a Mac Servo fail=2C but I h
ave a D sub on it anyway=2C just in case.)
>
> Enjoy Building
> Bud
>
>
> From: tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Clevice \Forks debacle.........
> Date: Fri=2C 23 May 2014 08:02:24 +1000
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>
> Hi Bud=2C
> Could you please elaborate where the fouling is more specifically? I appr
eciate knowing this=2C so I am thankful Bob brought it up. I have the top s
till off so its ideal I overcome these issues now.
> Regards
> Tony Renshaw
>
>
> On 23 May 2014=2C at 7:40=2C "Bud Yerly" <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>
> Bob=2C
> You are right on the money. Every aircraft I have built needed about 1/8
off each clevis on the pitch mechanism to allow the trim bar to clear at f
ull elevator and trim travel. As for interpreting the English Language....
No comment.
> Regards=2C
> Bud Yerly
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Fred Klein
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday=2C May 22=2C 2014 10:30 AM
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Clevice \Forks debacle.........
>
> Bobthank you for your attention to my build photo and for alerti
ng me to this issue=2C however vexing you may find it.
>
> I am simply baffled to learn that you find =9Cthere is already enou
gh shit flying about on the issue=9D and that it=99s an exam
ple showing that =9Cpeople just can=99t read and interpret the
English language=9Dplease do not attempt to elaborate
I can do without further discussion which you find unsuitable for postin
g on Matronics.
>
> Fred
>
>
> On May 22=2C 2014=2C at 2:19 AM=2C Bob Harrison <ptag.dev@talktalk.net> w
rote:
>
> Hi! Tony /Fred.
> To try to help you over this vexed issue concerning the clevis forks I ju
st spoke to a local friend on the issue ....his immediate response was that
he had removed =C2=BC=9D but when I questioned him further he start
ed to apply some engineering reason to the issue and suggested that we prob
ably both removed 1/8=9D from each clevice to ensure there was adequa
te thread purchase left on both clevices. Which is the principle I would ap
ply =2C the only thing better is to remove it from one and check the operat
ional clearance as to whether it is necessary to do the other too.
> I=99m not publishing this on the Matronics site since there is alre
ady enough shit flying about on the issue =2C people just can=99t rea
d and interpret the English language !
> Regards
> Bob H
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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