---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/26/14: 1 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:23 PM - Re: My ailerons wont go down (William Daniell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:24 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: My ailerons wont go down From: William Daniell thanks I will let y'all know how it goes. I'm warming up for round two this weekend. Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 3:17 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: > Will, > You've got the right attitude. > > Setting the belcrank on the wing to 90 degrees is only one part of the > rig. Your fuselage QDs may be the culprit as well. You can adjust > the aileron as suggested many ways. Check that your flaps and wingtips a re > not drooping. Use your incidence board and check the flaps on both sides > are dead level with the board. If your board is lost, you have only the > lower wing to set level across the flaps with the lower first six inches of > the wing skin. > > Big thing to remember is the outer short push rod sets the up limit at > nominally 23.5 to 24.5 (25.5 max). The up limit on one aileron sets the > down limit on the other. If you have full required travel of the aileron > (roughly 42-46 degrees) your problem is normally your QDs are not set > vertical to the ground with the fuselage level and plumb. > > Measuring with a Smart digital level is made easier by some manufacturers > by removing the center portion. Now you have a short smart level. The > smart tool is a bit cumbersome to use but essential for the flap/stab > measurements. For the ailerons, I use a simple protractor made by Genera l > (#29) for inside and outside measurements. It is about $5. (A carpenter s > bevel gauge works outstanding also.) > > Set the protractor/bevel gauge at the desired angle and put it just to th e > outboard of either wing hinge (I use the inboard) and take a quick look a nd > adjust down to about 24.5 degrees or so by just holding the gauge to the > wing and looking at the gap. With the aileron up (outside postion on the > protractor) I set the pushrod to give me 23.5 to 24.5 as set on my > protractor/bevel gauge. I do the same on the other wing. I check that > with the aileron down I get full down plus some before the wt. hits the > closeout. Then set the fuselage and wing QD to vertical. That should > work, but doesn't always as you found out! > > Some adjustment of the fuselage QD belcrank is necessary to get the > ailerons to be level with the flaps and outboard wing tip. Use your now > shortened smart tool to get the fuselage QD vertical with the outer skin as > best you can, or put the pins in and set a T square on them to set the > QDs. Yes, I know the T square is too big, so put the long section in the > fuselage and use a piece of 6 inch 3/4 lumber on the QD and align it with > the square. Make sure both sides are the same. Set the wing lateral pus h > rod to get the wing QD parallel to the pins. Don't get excited about > setting the phenolic pads right now. Look hard at your bolt head alignme nt > on the QDs. They are probably off a bit. By adjusting slightly the angl e > of the QD you can adjust for some misalignment. Then put in the final > pad. (If too far apart, tack some phenolic in place with a drop of super > glue to help get things close to final.) Repeat on the other wing. Note > the ailerons for droop or reflex (up) with both wings rigged and > pinned. The ailerons should be even (both slightly up or down). Now, > degrig, adjust the lateral pushrod a turn in the appropriate direction on > each side, and rerig. Continue until you have them both even and the thr ow > correct. > > To be honest, sometimes the wingtip is a bit off, so if your flaps are > dead on, use them. If the tips are off, I use a smart level and my T > squares to measure if there is twist between wings. That's another fix w e > won't get into right now. See my trimming notes if the incidence or flaps > are not exactly the same. > > Good luck this weekend. You have all the tools and frankly it sounds lik e > you have the total throw so you're almost there. > > Remember, if you haven't taken it apart and put it together at least five > times (per wing), you're doing it wrong. > > Bud Yerly > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* William Daniell > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 25, 2014 7:15 AM > *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: My ailerons wont go down > > Gentlemen thanks for your contributions > > I do have more than the full movement required without the wings rigged > leading me to identify the control system as the prime suspect. > > I shall re-start the process from scratch next weekend (very annoying how > work interferes with building) > > - I do actually have a smart tool but it's a long one which is too > unwieldy for the ailerons so I will acquire a short one > - Reducing the up throw by one degree per bud's instructions > - Adjust the wing QD to 90 deg > - level everything and check that the fuselage end is all correct > - control columns vertical and parallel > - centre the ailerons and ensure that the QDs are vertical > (using my newly acquired short smart tool) > - And then if that doesn't solve it start playing around with the > fuselage link rods - where I now suspect the culprit lies. > - I think on reflection that I haven't followed the process carefully > enough so ....I am going to do it again... > > thanks Will > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 <%2B57%20310%20295%200744> > > > On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 3:02 AM, David Joyce > wrote: > >> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> >> >> >> William, As a PS if you do have full range on the unrigged wings and ful l >> down/reduced up on both with both wings rigged , then you need to adjust >> the length of control rods between wingroot and bell crank. Regards, Da vid >> >> On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 17:25:15 -0500 >> William Daniell wrote: >> >>> David >>> Yes the thought ocurred to me and it could be that this is the root of >>> the >>> problem. I made two templates and following buds instructions measured >>> at >>> the hinge both for up and down ie using the lower surface of the wing >>> compared to the lower surface of the aileron. So yes I am measuring >>> both >>> up and down from the same place...the inboard hinge mid point. >>> Is this correct? >>> Will >>> On 24 Jun 2014 12:43, "David Joyce" wrote: >>> >>>> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> >>>> >>>> >>>> William, I don't know the answer, but if you haven't got one I would >>>> strongly advise getting or borrowing a Smart Tool so that you can easi ly >>>> and very accurately measure angles. It does occur to me to wonder >>>> whether >>>> you are measuring your up and down angles off the same surface (i.e. A re >>>> you measuring the neutral angle of say the upper surface, then measuri ng >>>> the up and down angles of the upper surface, rather than the up angle of >>>> the upper surface and the down angle of the lower surface) Regards, >>>> David >>>> Joyce, G-XSDJ >>>> >>>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:44:48 -0500 >>>> William Daniell wrote: >>>> >>>> I am rigging everything prior to closing >>>>> >>>>> I made some templates 23.5 up and 20 down for use on the underside >>>>> mindful >>>>> or buds strictures to measure at the hinge >>>>> >>>>> I have followed the procedure on the book (i think). >>>>> >>>>> *1. Check that the short aileron link-rod is adjusted such that when >>>>> the >>>>> bellcrank W13 is against its **stop, the aileron has moved 23.5=C2=BA up.* >>>>> *2. With the aileron at neutral, adjust the length of the lateral >>>>> push-rod >>>>> so that the quick-connect **bellcrank W16 is at 90=C2=BA to a line be tween >>>>> both >>>>> spar bushes.* >>>>> *3. Adjust the tie-rod between both cranks CS08 so that both control >>>>> columns are parallel.* >>>>> *4. Adjust the short outer push-rods between the CS08=99s and t he CS15 >>>>> bellcranks so that the latter are **vertical when the control columns >>>>> are >>>>> vertical.* >>>>> *When the wings are rigged the aileron movement should be 23.5=C2=BA up and >>>>> 20=C2=BA >>>>> down with full lateral **control column movement and both ailerons >>>>> should >>>>> be in their neutral positions together when the* >>>>> *control columns are vertical.* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> My ailerons go up the required 23.5 deg against both stops but they >>>>> don't >>>>> go down the required 20 deg...not even close I would guess that they >>>>> are >>>>> about 15-17 down >>>>> >>>>> I have taken it to bits and put it together fiddled around but Im >>>>> stumped. >>>>> What I am I doing wrong? >>>>> >>>>> Might it be that the control columns should not be parallell in this >>>>> case >>>>> due to variation in the build.... >>>>> >>>>> thanks >>>>> >>>>> Will >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> William Daniell >>>>> LONGPORT >>>>> +57 310 295 0744 <%2B57%20310%20295%200744> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> =========== >>> =========== >>> =========== >>> =========== >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> ======================== =========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> ======================== =========== >> MS - >> k">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> e - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ======================== =========== >> >> >> >> > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ">http://www.matronhref ="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://for ums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution ">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > =========== tronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.