Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:07 AM - Re: Re: DOOR detached during flight (Max Cointe (Free))
2. 02:01 AM - Re: DOOR detached during flight (John Wighton)
3. 04:04 AM - Re: DOOR detached during flight (Kevin Klinefelter)
4. 05:55 AM - Re: DOOR detached during flight (John Wighton)
5. 06:32 AM - Re: Re: DOOR detached during flight (Robert Borger)
6. 07:41 AM - Re: Re: DOOR detached during flight (Fred Klein)
7. 09:09 AM - Re: DOOR detached during flight (AirEupora)
8. 09:34 AM - Re: DOOR detached during flight (JonSmith)
9. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: DOOR detached during flight (William McClellan)
10. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: DOOR detached during flight (Jerry Rehn)
11. 10:47 AM - Re: Re: DOOR detached during flight (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
12. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: DOOR detached during flight (Kevin Klinefelter)
13. 03:25 PM - Re: Re: DOOR detached during flight (Kevin Challis)
14. 03:51 PM - Re: Re: DOOR detached during flight (Timward)
15. 05:34 PM - Re: Re: DOOR detached during flight (Bud Yerly)
16. 07:34 PM - Re: My ailerons wont go down (William Daniell)
17. 09:41 PM - France Holidaying Suggestions (Tony Renshaw)
18. 11:01 PM - Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
19. 11:07 PM - Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: DOOR detached during flight |
We've been there too. Totally agree with Jon, it's mandatory to verify that
the rear pin is really engaged. I push on front and rear side of both
windows as last line of my pre take off check list.
BTW this point has been addressed on this forum quite a bit ago and some
builders have added detection switches linked to leds on their panel, a bit
too much for me.
Hope your window is manufactured in the UK (grey color) as our came from USA
(dark color) and it was more expensive for travel than the price of the
window itself and it took 6 weeks to get it...
Max Cointe
mcointe@free.fr
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours
F-PLDJ DynAro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures
-----Message d'origine-----
De: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de JonSmith
Envoy: lundi 30 juin 2014 22:47
: europa-list@matronics.com
Objet: Europa-List: Re: DOOR detached during flight
--> <jonsmitheuropa@tiscali.co.uk>
Unfortunately this has happened a fair few times, indeed to a mate of mine
just last year.
What happens is that the (rear mounted) gas strut twists the door frame a
little when it is open. Thus when the door is lowered to close it, it
naturally wants to take up a position where the bottom edge of the door is
slightly too far aft. This causes the rear edge of the door to remain
outside of the door frame. Positioned thus, when you lock the door the
front shoot bolt locates normally but the rear one locates itself OUTSIDE of
the door frame. From inside the front of the door looks normal and the lock
handle looks and feels normal too. Only by looking round behind you will
you see that the rear edge of the door is out of position. Of course air
pressure on the door in flight will then flex it slightly further rearwards
and then it's game over (for the door).
I find when I close the door from the inside, when it's fully lowered I
apply a slight pressure forwards with a finger on the inside of the front
edge of the door and that moves the bottom of the door frame forward
slightly and you can literally hear and feel it pop into it's correct and
fully fitted position. This has really become an instinctive movement for
me. I also look at both ends of the door from the inside to ensure they are
fully snug in position. After locking it I press outwards on both front and
back of each door as a final check to ensure each end of the door is fully
secure.
Whilst you will never know for sure, my uneducated opinion is that there is
very little load on a correctly closed door in flight and if both shoot
bolts are correctly engaged the door cannot possible come open by accident.
Good luck and best wishes for a speedy repair.
--------
G-TERN
Classic Mono
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425788#425788
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| Subject: | Re: DOOR detached during flight |
Sorry to hear about the door detachment. Steve Vestuti, builder of #573 (now G-IPOD)
wisely added double DOORS check in the 'start up' and 'ready for departure'
checklists. I follow this and double brief PAX about checking the doors
before pulling the harness tight.
I found that the doors warp when left open in hot weather, this can result in the
aft pins needing some shuffling - as per Jon Smith's narrative.
I re-stressed the hinges and pins having done some CFD work on the Europa, the
pressure differential across this part of the fuselage is quite low but the doors
are large, so the resulting suction is enough (obviously) to warp the door
sufficient to disengage the remaining (fwd) pin. The RF (reserve factor) of
the aft pins, when properly engaged is very high >>2.
Conclusion is that the door design is sound, operators need a robust checklist
regime including a thorough PAX brief.
Regards
JW
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425822#425822
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| Subject: | Re: DOOR detached during flight |
I used stainless steel hinges for the doors, as some other builders recommended.
I suppose SS can take a bit more of the abuse we give them on the ground.
But one has to wonder if that rear shoot bolt was really engaged. I wonder if this
is the first instance of the door hitting the tail?
Kevin
> On Jun 30, 2014, at 12:07 PM, "g-fizy" <jim.davis1@me.com> wrote:
>
>
> Sadly during the permit renewal test flight ,The P1 Door detached,Luckily no
one was hert and G-fizy was landed safely .
> It Was flown be the engineer and text pilot they had not started testing the
aircraft ,and was in level flight when the door went as it did it impacted the
elevator and to a large chunk out.
> They say The doors Were both Closed correctly so we are not sure if the hinge
at the front failed causing the door to detach ,they don't look very strong.
> Has This Happened Before ?
>
> thats my flying done for a while :( :( :(
>
> --------
> owner g-fizy
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425780#425780
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171415_120.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171459_125.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171401_136.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: DOOR detached during flight |
The doors will fail irrespective of hinge material as the fasteners will pull through,
shear or tear out.
I have not been able to access the photos int he original post - anybody else have
trouble?
getting 404 errors.
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171415_120.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171459_125.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171401_136.jpg
Regards
John
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425827#425827
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| Subject: | Re: DOOR detached during flight |
John,
Agreed. You could use cast iron hinges and theyd just tear up the fiberglass when
the door departed. One must absolutely, positively, make sure both bolt shoots
are in place. I have a strap attached to the inside lower rear corner of
my doors that allows me to pull that corner in when I latch the door. I had
microswitches for a while but they tended to get out of adjustment and wear causing
false warnings. The strap is much better at confirming the rear shoots
are in place and the door properly latched.
Same 404 error when I try to access the photos.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:54 AM, John Wighton <john@wighton.net> wrote:
The doors will fail irrespective of hinge material as the fasteners will pull through,
shear or tear out.
I have not been able to access the photos int he original post - anybody else have
trouble?
getting 404 errors.
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171415_120.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171459_125.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171401_136.jpg
Regards
John
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: DOOR detached during flight |
Robert Borger wrote:
> Agreed. You could use cast iron hinges and they=92d just tear up the
fiberglass when the door departed. One must absolutely, positively,
make sure both bolt shoots are in place. I have a strap attached to the
inside lower rear corner of my doors that allows me to pull that corner
in when I latch the door. I had microswitches for a while but they
tended to get out of adjustment and wear causing false warnings. The
strap is much better at confirming the rear shoots are in place and the
door properly latched.
That sounds like a good idea Bob=85
In my case, I added a tab of 1/8=94 Lastafoam w/ 2 layers BID, located
per attached photo, on both doors. On the passenger side, I can reach
the tab w/ my right arm extended behind the passenger=92s head; I did
not want to rely upon my passenger to ensure that the rear shoot bolt
was engaged. On the pilot=92s side, I cross my right arm over my chest
to reach the tab. In both instances, I can both push out and pull
inward, while engaging the latch as well as during final check list.
I was particularly concerned before installation of the door glazing
because the lower rear corner of the door remained a tad proud prior to
engaging the shoot bolts; I was a bit relieved when that disappeared
after the weight of the glazing was added to the door.
Nonetheless, I=92m installing microswitches for the rear bolts and will
look for two green LEDs on the panel before TO=85it=92s a simple enough
installation, thanks to Raimo Toivio, and I have no reason to doubt that
it will be trouble-free=85time will tell.
Regarding the hinges, I believe they were intentionally designed as the
weak link in order to prevent damage to the FG of the airframe in the
event of loss of door.
Fred
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| Subject: | Re: DOOR detached during flight |
I too had the door depart on my first flight in N141EW as an instructor. It took
six months to get the parts from England.. The installation and painting took
another month. I felt bad about my door coming off during flight. Took a
helicopter up and looked around for the door, but never found it. No damage to
the airframe.
It is interesting that Dr. Johnson's doors are super easy to open and close, but
my doors are hard. I took Bob's ideal and use a cord from the pilot's door
to the PAX's door and pull on the cord before take off. I generally am able to
see day light out the back if the door is not close. If I don't keep the doors
close when not flying then I have trouble closing them before takeoff. I
couple of times I've had to shut down the engine. get out and close the pilot's
door from the outside. Then walk around and get in from the PAX's door. As
big as I am that is a sight.
Losing a door in flight makes a believer out of you. Double check the doors!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425849#425849
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| Subject: | Re: DOOR detached during flight |
Hi, just to clarify and expand on my previous comments and noting the very valid
comments by John Wighton and others, the doors, even when closed can be semi
permanently deformed by the continuous action of the gas strut (mine certainly
has). This is generally limited to the flattish flange of the inboard rear top
corner of the door which over time becomes curled up a little causing rather
an unsightly gap at that corner. This deformation can be "reset" given time
with ingenious use of weights/ straps/ pressure etc plus careful warming of the
corner. (The gas strut repositioning mod addresses this problem and helps
prevent it happening though I've not fitted it to mine).
I don't think this is the cause of people failing to lock the door correctly though.
The "twisting" I referred to is simply caused by the (quite flexible) door
being twisted when it is open by the fact that it only has one gas strut fitted
to one edge of the door. If it had two gas struts, one at the front and
one at the rear it wouldn't twist - but think of the extra weight....! On mine,
if I disconnect the gas strut the door lowers down completely straight and
fits perfectly into the frame with no extra fiddling required. When I reconnect
the gas strut then due to the induced twist, after I have lowered it I need
to give the bottom of the door my previously mentioned gentle nudge forward to
pop it fully into position (ie. to allow the rear edge of the door to move fully
inwards and fully home). It's a bit like on my old estate car - one of the
gas struts failed on the boot (trunk!) lid and the boot was a pig to shut because
the one remaining (strong) gas strut twisted the thin boot lid so much
it needed a huge sideways force to make it fit!
Like John, I am completely convinced that the door design is very good and completely
sound but that this is just one of those things that we all "need to know"
and that we all religiously check that the front and especially the (harder
to see!) rear of the door is correctly shut and in the correct position with
the shoot bolts engaged. Someone mentioned about warning devices - it's a very
personal thing but I prefer not to rely on bells and whistles which might let
me down one day but rely on myself to visually check each time. I just pray
that I don't let myself down one day!
I guess an issue is, and this will always be a risk, where someone less familiar
with the day to day operating of the plane flies it - classic example being
the engineer as the original poster mentioned. As owners I suppose this will
need to be one of many briefing points covered.
--------
G-TERN
Classic Mono
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425855#425855
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: DOOR detached during flight |
Ted Gladstone developed a door strut mod that works very well. See picture. Kingsley
Hurst modified it and did a write up on the mod. I modified it further
and installed it on my plane and it works very well. It takes virtually all
stress off the door corner. Further info is on forum some time back. I have
Kingsley's write up but he probably still has the info. Obviously the bottom
line solution, as has been stated, always check for complete door closure before
flight.
Bill McClellan
-----Original Message-----
>From: JonSmith <jonsmitheuropa@tiscali.co.uk>
>Sent: Jul 1, 2014 9:33 AM
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Re: DOOR detached during flight
>
>
>Hi, just to clarify and expand on my previous comments and noting the very valid
comments by John Wighton and others, the doors, even when closed can be semi
permanently deformed by the continuous action of the gas strut (mine certainly
has). This is generally limited to the flattish flange of the inboard rear
top corner of the door which over time becomes curled up a little causing rather
an unsightly gap at that corner. This deformation can be "reset" given time
with ingenious use of weights/ straps/ pressure etc plus careful warming of
the corner. (The gas strut repositioning mod addresses this problem and helps
prevent it happening though I've not fitted it to mine).
>
>I don't think this is the cause of people failing to lock the door correctly though.
The "twisting" I referred to is simply caused by the (quite flexible)
door being twisted when it is open by the fact that it only has one gas strut
fitted to one edge of the door. If it had two gas struts, one at the front and
one at the rear it wouldn't twist - but think of the extra weight....! On mine,
if I disconnect the gas strut the door lowers down completely straight and
fits perfectly into the frame with no extra fiddling required. When I reconnect
the gas strut then due to the induced twist, after I have lowered it I need
to give the bottom of the door my previously mentioned gentle nudge forward
to pop it fully into position (ie. to allow the rear edge of the door to move
fully inwards and fully home). It's a bit like on my old estate car - one of
the gas struts failed on the boot (trunk!) lid and the boot was a pig to shut
because the one remaining (strong) gas strut twisted
!
> the thin boot lid so much it needed a huge sideways force to make it fit!
>Like John, I am completely convinced that the door design is very good and completely
sound but that this is just one of those things that we all "need to know"
and that we all religiously check that the front and especially the (harder
to see!) rear of the door is correctly shut and in the correct position with
the shoot bolts engaged. Someone mentioned about warning devices - it's a very
personal thing but I prefer not to rely on bells and whistles which might
let me down one day but rely on myself to visually check each time. I just pray
that I don't let myself down one day!
>I guess an issue is, and this will always be a risk, where someone less familiar
with the day to day operating of the plane flies it - classic example being
the engineer as the original poster mentioned. As owners I suppose this will
need to be one of many briefing points covered.
>
>--------
>G-TERN
>Classic Mono
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425855#425855
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: DOOR detached during flight |
It comes down to us and our check list. A couple of days ago my wife and I taxied
out in warm weather, she opened her door to cool off and closed it before take
off, I always check them at least 3 times, so I reached back and gave her
door a push, whoops,it was not latched in back, a good reminder for us and why
we check it. Pretty sure she will also be double checking now!
Have check lists and use them.
Regards
Jerry
Mono 914
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 1, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "JonSmith" <jonsmitheuropa@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, just to clarify and expand on my previous comments and noting the very valid
comments by John Wighton and others, the doors, even when closed can be semi
permanently deformed by the continuous action of the gas strut (mine certainly
has). This is generally limited to the flattish flange of the inboard rear
top corner of the door which over time becomes curled up a little causing rather
an unsightly gap at that corner. This deformation can be "reset" given time
with ingenious use of weights/ straps/ pressure etc plus careful warming of
the corner. (The gas strut repositioning mod addresses this problem and helps
prevent it happening though I've not fitted it to mine).
>
> I don't think this is the cause of people failing to lock the door correctly
though. The "twisting" I referred to is simply caused by the (quite flexible)
door being twisted when it is open by the fact that it only has one gas strut
fitted to one edge of the door. If it had two gas struts, one at the front and
one at the rear it wouldn't twist - but think of the extra weight....! On
mine, if I disconnect the gas strut the door lowers down completely straight and
fits perfectly into the frame with no extra fiddling required. When I reconnect
the gas strut then due to the induced twist, after I have lowered it I need
to give the bottom of the door my previously mentioned gentle nudge forward
to pop it fully into position (ie. to allow the rear edge of the door to move
fully inwards and fully home). It's a bit like on my old estate car - one of
the gas struts failed on the boot (trunk!) lid and the boot was a pig to shut
because the one remaining (strong) gas strut twisted !
> the thin boot lid so much it needed a huge sideways force to make it fit!
> Like John, I am completely convinced that the door design is very good and completely
sound but that this is just one of those things that we all "need to
know" and that we all religiously check that the front and especially the (harder
to see!) rear of the door is correctly shut and in the correct position with
the shoot bolts engaged. Someone mentioned about warning devices - it's a
very personal thing but I prefer not to rely on bells and whistles which might
let me down one day but rely on myself to visually check each time. I just pray
that I don't let myself down one day!
> I guess an issue is, and this will always be a risk, where someone less familiar
with the day to day operating of the plane flies it - classic example being
the engineer as the original poster mentioned. As owners I suppose this will
need to be one of many briefing points covered.
>
> --------
> G-TERN
> Classic Mono
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425855#425855
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: DOOR detached during flight |
This is the best answer, also fit Mal McLure's center latch which stops the
bolts engaging unless=0Athe door is fully closed. It stops the door bowing
out along the bottom rail in flight with the =0Aventilators fully open. It
's very neat and very simple.=0ABest to persuade Kingsley to describe it. H
e has the original installed.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________
__________=0A From: William McClellan <wilwood@earthlink.net>=0ATo: europa-
list@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, 1 July 2014, 18:20=0ASubject: Re: Euro
pa-List: Re: DOOR detached during flight=0A =0A=0ATed Gladstone developed a
door strut mod that works very well.- See picture.- Kingsley Hurst mod
ified it and did a write up on the mod.- I modified it further and instal
led it on my plane and it works very well.- It takes virtually all stress
off the door corner.- Further info is on forum some time back.- I have
Kingsley's write up but he probably still has the info.- Obviously the b
ottom line solution, as has been stated, always check for complete door clo
sure before flight.=0ABill McClellan=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0A>Fro
m: JonSmith <jonsmitheuropa@tiscali.co.uk>=0A>Sent: Jul 1, 2014 9:33 AM=0A>
uropa@tiscali.co.uk>=0A>=0A>Hi, just to clarify and expand on my previous c
omments and noting the very valid comments by John Wighton and others, the
doors, even when closed can be semi permanently deformed by the continuous
action of the gas strut (mine certainly has). This is generally limited to
the flattish flange of the inboard rear top corner of the door which over t
ime becomes curled up a little causing rather an unsightly gap at that corn
er.- This deformation can be "reset" given time with ingenious use of wei
ghts/ straps/ pressure etc plus careful warming of the corner.- (The gas
strut repositioning mod addresses this problem and helps prevent it happeni
ng though I've not fitted it to mine). =0A>=0A>I don't think this is the ca
use of people failing to lock the door correctly though.- The "twisting"
I referred to is simply caused by the (quite flexible) door being twisted w
hen it is open by the fact that it only has one gas strut fitted to one edg
e of the door.- If it had two gas struts, one at the front and one at the
rear it wouldn't twist - but think of the extra weight....!- On mine, if
I disconnect the gas strut the door lowers down completely straight and fi
ts perfectly into the frame with no extra fiddling required. When I reconne
ct the gas strut then due to the induced twist, after I have lowered it I n
eed to give the bottom of the door my previously mentioned gentle nudge for
ward to pop it fully into position (ie. to allow the rear edge of the door
to move fully inwards and fully home).- It's a bit like on my old estate
car - one of the gas struts failed on the boot (trunk!) lid and the boot wa
s a pig to shut because the one remaining
(strong) gas strut twisted =0A!=0A> the thin boot lid so much it needed a
huge sideways force to make it fit!=0A>Like John, I am completely convinced
that the door design is very good and completely sound but that this is ju
st one of those things that we all "need to know" and that we all religious
ly check that the front and especially the (harder to see!) rear of the doo
r is correctly shut and in the correct position with the shoot bolts engage
d.- Someone mentioned about warning devices - it's a very personal thing
but I prefer not to rely on bells and whistles which might let me down one
day but rely on myself to visually check each time. I just pray that I don'
t let myself down one day!=0A>I guess an issue is, and this will always be
a risk, where someone less familiar with the day to day operating of the pl
ane flies it - classic example being the engineer as the original poster me
ntioned.- As owners I suppose this will need to be one of many briefing p
oints covered.=0A>=0A>--------=0A>G-TERN=0A>Classic Mono=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A
>Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.
php?p=425855#425855=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: DOOR detached during flight |
Absolutely. The original post regarding loss of door during flight asserted that
the test pilot said the shoot bolts were engaged normally and it must have been
the forward hinge that failed. I am assuming it was an aluminum hinge.
I am not suggesting that SS hinges would keep your door on the airplane if the
door ain't closed properly!
Kevin
> On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:54 AM, "John Wighton" <john@wighton.net> wrote:
>
>
> The doors will fail irrespective of hinge material as the fasteners will pull
through, shear or tear out.
>
> I have not been able to access the photos int he original post - anybody else
have trouble?
>
> getting 404 errors.
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171415_120.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171459_125.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171401_136.jpg
>
>
> Regards
> John
>
> --------
> John Wighton
> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425827#425827
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: DOOR detached during flight |
The test pilot isn't going to say he didn't check the bolts were engaged he is
going to say it was a failure else where.
I don't have any micro switches etc I just lean back and give both doors a good
push at the rear and then the front. If the bolts aren't engaged you can tell
straight away. When converting to the Europa it was drummed into me how important
this is.
It's on my check list.
Kevin
> On 1 Jul 2014, at 23:02, Kevin Klinefelter <klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Absolutely. The original post regarding loss of door during flight asserted that
the test pilot said the shoot bolts were engaged normally and it must have
been the forward hinge that failed. I am assuming it was an aluminum hinge.
> I am not suggesting that SS hinges would keep your door on the airplane if the
door ain't closed properly!
>
> Kevin
>
>
>> On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:54 AM, "John Wighton" <john@wighton.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> The doors will fail irrespective of hinge material as the fasteners will pull
through, shear or tear out.
>>
>> I have not been able to access the photos int he original post - anybody else
have trouble?
>>
>> getting 404 errors.
>>
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171415_120.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171459_125.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171401_136.jpg
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> John
>>
>> --------
>> John Wighton
>> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425827#425827
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: DOOR detached during flight |
Doing my DOOR check before Take off I have a viewable red marker line on the back
of each door that should be flush with the upholstery when closed. If not then
reopen and push down on the back of the door to make sure the back bolt is
secure.
Never had a problem with the original strut although they are getting weaker.
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
Ph 64 3 3515166
Mob 0210640221
> On 2/07/2014, at 10:25 am, Kevin Challis <cakeykev@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> The test pilot isn't going to say he didn't check the bolts were engaged he is
going to say it was a failure else where.
>
> I don't have any micro switches etc I just lean back and give both doors a good
push at the rear and then the front. If the bolts aren't engaged you can tell
straight away. When converting to the Europa it was drummed into me how important
this is.
>
> It's on my check list.
>
> Kevin
>
>
>> On 1 Jul 2014, at 23:02, Kevin Klinefelter <klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Absolutely. The original post regarding loss of door during flight asserted
that the test pilot said the shoot bolts were engaged normally and it must have
been the forward hinge that failed. I am assuming it was an aluminum hinge.
>> I am not suggesting that SS hinges would keep your door on the airplane if the
door ain't closed properly!
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:54 AM, "John Wighton" <john@wighton.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> The doors will fail irrespective of hinge material as the fasteners will pull
through, shear or tear out.
>>>
>>> I have not been able to access the photos int he original post - anybody else
have trouble?
>>>
>>> getting 404 errors.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171415_120.jpg
>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171459_125.jpg
>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171401_136.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> John
>>>
>>> --------
>>> John Wighton
>>> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425827#425827
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: DOOR detached during flight |
As in previous posts=2C my doors close easily and are stock.
I trust my doors=2C not myself or my pax or if flying with anyone else or h
aving someone help me by latching the pax door for me.
Reach over and push the door firmly while looking at it. When you close it
and before takeoff.
CHECKLIST CHECKLIST
The only door my clients or I have lost was posted in this string to a new
second hand owner. I spend time teaching clients=2C prospects and passenge
rs how to close the door and how to jettison it in an emergency and ground
egress.
It's a review for me as my discipline goes to pot when I get lazy on a nice
sunny day.
Of course I took off with the prop in cruise. ( It's in my checklist. )
Discipline may not be. The mind is a terrible thing.
LOOK WHILE YOU PUSH ON THE DOOR!
Regards
Bud Yerly.
PS. Europa's molds and plug for the starboard door was trashed so a new m
old had to be made. Takes a while.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Timward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Doing my DOOR check before Take off I have a viewable red marker line on th
e back of each door that should be flush with the upholstery when closed. I
f not then reopen and push down on the back of the door to make sure the ba
ck bolt is secure.
Never had a problem with the original strut although they are getting weake
r.
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton=2C
Christchurch=2C 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
Ph 64 3 3515166
Mob 0210640221
> On 2/07/2014=2C at 10:25 am=2C Kevin Challis <cakeykev@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> The test pilot isn't going to say he didn't check the bolts were engaged
he is going to say it was a failure else where.
>
> I don't have any micro switches etc I just lean back and give both doors
a good push at the rear and then the front. If the bolts aren't engaged you
can tell straight away. When converting to the Europa it was drummed into
me how important this is.
>
> It's on my check list.
>
> Kevin
>
>
>> On 1 Jul 2014=2C at 23:02=2C Kevin Klinefelter <klinefelter.kevin@gmail.
com> wrote:
>>
gmail.com>
>>
>> Absolutely. The original post regarding loss of door during flight asser
ted that the test pilot said the shoot bolts were engaged normally and it m
ust have been the forward hinge that failed. I am assuming it was an alumin
um hinge.
>> I am not suggesting that SS hinges would keep your door on the airplane
if the door ain't closed properly!
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 1=2C 2014=2C at 7:54 AM=2C "John Wighton" <john@wighton.net> wro
te:
>>>
>>>
>>> The doors will fail irrespective of hinge material as the fasteners wil
l pull through=2C shear or tear out.
>>>
>>> I have not been able to access the photos int he original post - anybod
y else have trouble?
>>>
>>> getting 404 errors.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171415_120.jpg
>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171459_125.jpg
>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171401_136.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> John
>>>
>>> --------
>>> John Wighton
>>> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425827#425827
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: My ailerons wont go down |
1. Firstly thanks to Howard Brooks who gave me the idea of downloading a
clinometer from google play to my phone. I built a sort of stand so that
the phone can stand on its edge out of a piece of hardware aluminium angle.
Thus I could clip the phone to the trailing edge of the aileron. I
checked the download against my smart tool - it turned out to be as good as
my smart tool.
2. Next I fitted the flaps and ailerons lined them up and and marked
the neutral position on the wing tip to avoid having to take the wings on
and off with the flaps on.
- incidentally using my newly acquired clinometer I found that my
left flap as lower by 1 deg than the right flap. So i used Buds flap
trimming advice and epoxied 4 plies of lay up on the top of the
flap drive
hole. Now the flaps are identical.
3. Next I took everything apart checked the aileron throw with my new
phone clinometer. The left aileron was close to ok but i reset that to
22.5 up and set the wing QD to 90 deg to the bushes.
4. The right wing was waaay out. I sounded like the front edge of the
aileron was contacting the channel in which it sits not allowing it to go
full up. I checked this out by using a pencil scribble in the channel and
masking tape on the LE of the aileron. It was contacting the channel right
at the tip. At the same time the lower surface of the aileron was about
1/8 below the lower surface of the wing. So i taped a 3/16 washer as a
spacer between the hinge and the wing. The lower surface was level with
the wing and i got 24 deg up. I put 5 lay ups (over and above the
reinforcement plies as a spacer on the hinge contact point. I set the
left aileron to 22.5 up and made the QD 90deg to spar pins
5. I next went after the fuselage end. I had some aileron control tube
left over which I cut in half and inserted into the control columns to
check that the sticks are parallel - I used a couple of lazer levels but as
bud says the eye was just as accurate. I then centered the sticks by using
a spirit level on the top of the aluminium stick socket - I figured if the
top of the socket was level then the stick would be vertical. Using a long
1/4 bolt I marked the center point on the seat front - drilled a 1/4 in
hole and now i have the sticks centered and held.
6. Next I turned my attention the fuze QD. Using a cut down spirit
level which I had previously checked for accuracy i checked that the QDs
were vertical with the sticks vertical. ( I had previously leveled the
fuze both ways). they were.
7. I put is all together and hey presto very close to perfect.
8. Ive still got some fiddling around to do but buds instructions were
spot on.
the take aways from this are:
- measuring tools are not tools they are "instruments" and require
checking.
- Only some of the levels i had were accurate
- I had previously used a old style clinometer - like
a protractor with a dial- it simply wasn't accurate enough
- check all your instruments coincide before you start
- the free download clinometer is the absolute business
as accurate as the smart level and a lot cheaper
- You get better at this as you go along. I was pretty much sure I had
done the process right the first time a couple of years back.
- There was a wrinkle which as the right wing aileron movement which I
would have picked up if I had had the right kit.
thanks for all help and suggestions I hope this is the last bleat (on this
subject)
yours
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
Message 17
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| Subject: | France Holidaying Suggestions |
Gidday,
We are coming across to France in late August early September for 2-3 weeks and
would like some suggestions in particular of places out of the way, and maybe
some hiking day trips as well. Well do the normal stuff, but I was wondering
about trying to get out of the car and take in a bit whilst hiking. Id like to
have a closer look at the Pyrenees and at this time of the year it should be
the right time to get about. We might head down as far as Barcelona or simply
tick the French box, including the Med.
Any suggestions gratefully accepted, as I know a lot of our UK brothers spend time
in France.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
Message 18
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*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
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All messages posted to the Europa-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Europa
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
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You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
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*** File and Photo Share ***
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With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
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*** List Archive CDROM ***
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A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
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The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
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I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
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Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Europa-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Europa-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Europa-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Europa-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Europa-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Europa-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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