Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:07 AM - Re: Re: Classic Radiators (Pete Lawless)
2. 03:34 AM - Re: Classic Radiators (Nigel Graham)
3. 05:09 AM - Re: Classic Radiators (h&jeuropa)
4. 05:11 AM - Re: US Fly In (h&jeuropa)
5. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: US Fly In (Kevin Klinefelter)
6. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: US Fly In (Jeffrey Roberts)
7. 11:30 AM - Re: Classic Radiators (jonathanmilbank)
8. 11:53 AM - Re: Re: US Fly In (Jerry Rehn)
9. 12:28 PM - Re: Classic Radiators (spcialeffects)
10. 01:34 PM - AW: Re: Classic Radiators (UVTReith)
11. 02:01 PM - AW: Re: Classic Radiators (spcialeffects)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Classic Radiators |
And I forgot to add yesterday the new style mechanical fuel pump won't
fit either! Not enough space between engine and radiator.
Pete
On 15/08/14 01:06, jonathanmilbank wrote:
>
> I possess new classic port and starboard radiators; not for sale but for when
my old ones fail. PM me if interested.
>
> BUT I wholeheartedly agree with the assertion that fitting the classic cowls
around the 912 series with associated short engine bearer frame is not the cleverest
idea. I recently replaced my 80hp engine with 100hp and heaven help me
if ever I need to replace the starter motor.
>
> There isn't room to allow fitting of the longer higher torque starter motor because
the frame gets in the way. To replace the starter, I would need to lift
out the entire engine and then remove the bearer frame from the engine. That
is utterly HELLISH! My frame isn't true and needs persuading.
>
> The longer starter is a really good idea, to help overcome the higher compression
and prevent kick-backs. Also the latest CDI units with very retarded spark
for the first few seconds are intended for the same purpose.
>
> Fortunately the most helpful and experienced Kevin Dilks of Special Aviation
Services suggested that I employ a separate starter button to get past the initial
inertia and build momentum for a couple of seconds before turning on the
ignition. It works a treat!
>
> However, I digress. I agree that the classic cowling and spinner give a much
sexier line to the airframe, compared with the snub-nosed XS look. So if you insist
on a sleeker image and want to risk the space limitations of the original
design, then I'm willing to consider helping in some way.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428467#428467
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Classic Radiators |
Hi Frank,
Sorry for the late response - I've been "enjoying" the opportunity of
re-plastering the ceiling in the front room and not looked at my mail!
It is true that I have developed a sleek new cowl, but I am creating a
"Custom Special" Europa, so nothing I am doing is compatible with the
standard Europa - so unfortunately, my cowl won't fit the standard XS or
Classic.
Having read your posting, I think that you need to realise that the
Europa is moving into it's twilight years and it is unlikely that the
factory will hold a full spares inventory for the older classic. The
company is not (and never has been) as large as BMW!
The radiators are really not a problem as there are many companies that
can re-create one from a pattern - and most likely for a lot less money
than Europa will charge. Docking Radiators at Siverstone is just one
example.
With regards to an inter-cooler, I am in the process of doing this
myself so have investigated many of the options that you have
considered. It is possible for me because I have developed a
tail-dragger undercarriage that has allowed me to delete all of the
standard Europa undercarriage and engine mounting frames - freeing up
space and saving weight for a firewall mounted water radiator and
inter-cooler
It is true that the standard 914 runs very hot induction air and that a
theoretical benefit could be gained from fitting a suitably sized
inter-cooler to bring down the induction charge temperature. Everything
in aviation is a compromise and the fact is that in order to bring the
temperate down to where you would notice a benefit, would require a
cooler too big (and heavy) to fit into the available space. You also
need to consider routing ducted air to and from the radiator in order to
transfer the heat efficiently - and there is just no space under the
cowls of either of the standard Europa versions.
Out of interest, the 914 only runs with full turbo charging for the last
15% of throttle opening (usually during the climb), for the rest of the
time the wastegate is partially or fully open, so you would be carrying
a large weight penalty for a very little benefit. As mentioned
elsewhere, the 914 runs very nicely so there is a strong argument that
"if it aint broke, don't fix it".
Bob Harrison of this parish has fitted one, but it is very small due to
space limitations - you could ask him if he notices any difference?
I'll be showing my fuselage with cowl and undercarriage at the
forthcoming LAA rally (I'll be next to the Europa Club stand), so if you
are curious, come along for a chat.
Nigel
PS - I'll send you a photo off list.
On 14/08/2014 16:09, David Joyce wrote:
> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> Frank, I a sure one of our Classic members will oblige with the
> radiator measurements, and you may even strike lucky and find someone
> with spare radiators. Have you seen Nigel Graham's cowling design
> which is built round a 914 but incorporates a lot of design features
> that will make it significantly more efficient? (Was at the Rally last
> year). Certainly if I was starting again I would abandon the
> moderately attractive Classic cowlings and get some of his design,
> which are truly beautiful ! As to the intercooler, it seems to me that
> the 914 works very nicely as it is and is perfectly matched to the
> Europa. It also means that the 914 is immune to carb icing (in my
> experience personally , having flown in plenty of carb ice favouring
> conditions, and having heard of no convincing instance of carb icing
> from anyone else). An intercooler is going to add weight and a few
> horsepower, which make very little difference to top end performance.
> Improved propeller characteristics, building light, reducing external
> and internal drag all probably have a more important bearing on
> performance.
> Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ
>
>
> On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 07:27:12 -0700
> "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects@aol.com> wrote:
>> <spcialeffects@aol.com>
>>
>> So here i am again posting on our forum, to ask questions which can
>> not be answered by the company who made my kit. Before i continue i
>> would like to say that.........if i drove a 1960's BMW and went into
>> BMW's today to ask for a part, for that 50 year old car, they would
>> look on their computer or micro fish and tell me "we dont have that
>> in stock but we can get it for you" or words to that effect. The
>> reason for this is because they have a drawing of it, which can be
>> recalled, to either order one OR make one. HOWEVER after a
>> disappointing phone call to europa today i find out that they do not
>> have technical drawings for the port and stbd radiators that were
>> used on the original classic. In their defence, or rather Karen's
>> defense, i don't expect them to have any on the shelf (which she did
>> have, just one possibly port) but i do expect that they have drawings
>> of them for existing customers who are flying their machines and
>> will, at some point, experience failure. So to my question. I am
>> building kit 165 a europa classic. I have the original cowls and want
>> to use them as i like the look of them as opposed to the XS style or
>> Nev's new design (no offense nev) BUT europa are unable to supply me
>> with drawings and measurement's so that i can get the two radiators
>> fabricated. I am also fitting a Rotax 914 engine. Has
>> anyone got drawings for the rads that i can use to get some made? Or
>> has anyone got the rads and wouldn't mind lending them to me to so i
>> can get copies made? Or has someone done something else? Also
>> staying on the engine theme i would like to fit an inter cooler
>> system and would like to know from others who have this fitted where
>> you got it and rough cost please? Many thanks to all. A Frustrated
>> builder, Frank X.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428438#428438
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Un/Subscription,
>> Forums!
>> Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Classic Radiators |
Frank,
As others have said, a intercooler mostly adds weight and doesn't improve performance.
There is a thread on this forum by Frans that discusses that in more
detail.
We installed the Europa US intercooler during our build but removed it a couple
years ago. It is available if you'd like to purchase it.
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428485#428485
Message 4
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Wow, no comments in two weeks.
Is anyone interested in getting together this summer? How about a west coast gathering?
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428486#428486
Message 5
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West coast sounds good.
Kevin in Bishop CA
> On Aug 15, 2014, at 2:11 AM, "h&jeuropa" <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> Wow, no comments in two weeks.
>
> Is anyone interested in getting together this summer? How about a west coast
gathering?
>
> Jim & Heather
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428486#428486
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Jim & Heather,
In the past living so close to Rough River it was a snap to drive up or
sometimes fly up. My problem is I now live at Leeward Air Ranch in Ocala
FL. It's so tough to count on weather that far plus I'm busier than I've
ever been in my business and I am a one man show so it's even harder to
plan & take time off.
Life is good living with Gold Rush as I can now fly 2 or 3 times a week
in the evenings or weekend mornings. Funny... There's about 150 aviators
here in the ranch and I have the fastest GPH plane here. For all you
other Europa fans out there stay one. We have a great plane. I was going
to sell her but we have solved some of my health issues and I no longer
fear losing the medical. Just a quick update on us ;-)
Anyone traveling thru the state is welcome to land and spend the night
here. I can help arrange an east cost fly-in in central FL if anyone is
up for that and we would be glad to host such a thing. We have a 6000 X
150 feet of some of the smoothest grass you'll ever land on here.
Hope you all are doing well!!
Jeff & Karen Roberts - N128LJ Gold Rush
On Aug 15, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Kevin Klinefelter wrote:
<klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com>
>
> West coast sounds good.
> Kevin in Bishop CA
>
>> On Aug 15, 2014, at 2:11 AM, "h&jeuropa" <butcher43@att.net>
wrote:
>>
<butcher43@att.net>
>>
>> Wow, no comments in two weeks.
>>
>> Is anyone interested in getting together this summer? How about a
west coast gathering?
>>
>> Jim & Heather
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428486#428486
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Classic Radiators |
Hi Frank,
It's true that the latest fuel pump installed on the 912 series is too long and
can't clear the stbd radiator, unless you mount the radiator a little further
to the right, but I'm not aware of any good reason why you shouldn't buy and
install the original and excellent Pierburg pump, which is shorter.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428517#428517
Message 8
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Located here in NW Wash. It would be nice to see a west coast gathering!
Jerry
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 15, 2014, at 5:11 AM, "h&jeuropa" <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> Wow, no comments in two weeks.
>
> Is anyone interested in getting together this summer? How about a west coast
gathering?
>
> Jim & Heather
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428486#428486
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Classic Radiators |
Hi Jonathan, Iv just pm'ed you. I plan to install a 914 turbo engine and I believe
that it only uses electric pumps (2 off) so this shouldn't affect me. Anyone
else on here who has a classic with classic cowls and a 914?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428521#428521
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Classic Radiators |
Hi friends,
With interest I followed the discussion on intercooler in combination
with a
914T installed in a Classic Europa.
Last week I was in Austria, changing a Mono into a Tri. The owner of
this
Classic Europa has installed an intercooler system in combination with
the
Rotax 914 and a constant speed prop. They got this system by Rotax Franz
on
the test rig and measured a power increase of about 15 horsepower. And
he
still is not using the full size of the cooler. Therefore an
installation is
possible.
I will ask Heinz if he is willing to share his development.
He is looking for XS wings and I got via Karen this quote from EA (Dave
Stanbridge`s calculation):
The price for a set of XS wings with NG control surfaces, complete with
hardware kit would be GBP =A315795.00 plus delivery and VAT.
Is there somewhere a XS wing set for a normal price available?
Have safe and nice flights,
Bruno Reith
-----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von
spcialeffects
Gesendet: Freitag, 15. August 2014 21:28
An: europa-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Europa-List: Re: Classic Radiators
--> < <mailto:spcialeffects@aol.com> spcialeffects@aol.com>
Hi Jonathan, Iv just pm'ed you. I plan to install a 914 turbo engine and
I
believe that it only uses electric pumps (2 off) so this shouldn't
affect
me. Anyone else on here who has a classic with classic cowls and a 914?
Read this topic online here:
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428521#428521>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428521#428521
List
7-Day
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: AW: Re: Classic Radiators |
Hi Bruno, Frank Xuereb here. If you could get him to share his findings, installation
and post some pictures that would be of great help. As for the XS wings......you
can buy a full XS kit second hand for about 10,000. This might be your
best bet, try looking on afors.com or post a wanted ad on this forum or look
in the LAA magazine.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428528#428528
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