Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:41 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Pete Lawless)
2. 02:07 AM - Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Alan Carter)
3. 02:09 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Alan Burrill)
4. 02:28 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Pete Lawless)
5. 02:31 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Pete Lawless)
6. 04:02 AM - Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Alan Carter)
7. 04:40 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Dpy01)
8. 05:00 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Pete)
9. 05:04 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Pete)
10. 05:13 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (DAVID JOYCE)
11. 05:20 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Pete Lawless)
12. 06:57 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Tony Renshaw)
13. 07:55 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (David Watts)
14. 08:17 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Pete Lawless)
15. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (David Watts)
16. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (david park)
17. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Pete Lawless)
18. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Christoph Both)
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
Hi
Anybody know what we are hoping to get out of this. Will you be able to
fly a Europa IFR in Class A as per a fully certified aeroplane?
Pete
On 06/09/14 06:57, spcialeffects wrote:
>
> Hi Brian. Well I for one can't wait for your technical letter out lining what
is acceptable or required as I am putting off buying my panel at the moment so
that I can build a fully accepted IFR fit panel. I am buying dynon throught
out as I consider it value for money.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430091#430091
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
Good point Peter.
I think if you have certified aeroplanes with certified instruments and avionic
flying along with permit aircraft on airways without certified equipment would
make some people very unhappy, especially having spend 10s of thousands of
pounds on there equipment, my guess it will on similar lines to what the IMC
rating allows you to do which is quite reasonable, for the average light aircraft
pilot .
In my chats with the CAA apparently you can do the whole coarse under the hood
without ever entering or experiencing real cloud.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430095#430095
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
According to this months LAA Magazine the answer is no.
Alan
G-OBJT
On 6 Sep 2014, at 09:40, Pete Lawless <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Anybody know what we are hoping to get out of this. Will you be able to fly
a Europa IFR in Class A as per a fully certified aeroplane?
>
> Pete
>
> On 06/09/14 06:57, spcialeffects wrote:
>>
>> Hi Brian. Well I for one can't wait for your technical letter out lining what
is acceptable or required as I am putting off buying my panel at the moment
so that I can build a fully accepted IFR fit panel. I am buying dynon throught
out as I consider it value for money.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430091#430091
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
Well even so it will be very good first step in the right direction.
On 06/09/14 10:08, Alan Burrill wrote:
>
> According to this months LAA Magazine the answer is no.
>
> Alan
> G-OBJT
> On 6 Sep 2014, at 09:40, Pete Lawless <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Anybody know what we are hoping to get out of this. Will you be able to fly
a Europa IFR in Class A as per a fully certified aeroplane?
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> On 06/09/14 06:57, spcialeffects wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Brian. Well I for one can't wait for your technical letter out lining what
is acceptable or required as I am putting off buying my panel at the moment
so that I can build a fully accepted IFR fit panel. I am buying dynon throught
out as I consider it value for money.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430091#430091
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
Hi Alan
Did you notice in the 800 plus pages if you still need an ADF to fly a
GPS approach? It certainly was the case at Staverton that you could fly
down to limits with a GPS but needed to use the ADF to go round the hold
at 3,000 feet.
Pete
On 06/09/14 10:06, Alan Carter wrote:
>
> Good point Peter.
> I think if you have certified aeroplanes with certified instruments and avionic
flying along with permit aircraft on airways without certified equipment would
make some people very unhappy, especially having spend 10s of thousands
of pounds on there equipment, my guess it will on similar lines to what the IMC
rating allows you to do which is quite reasonable, for the average light aircraft
pilot .
> In my chats with the CAA apparently you can do the whole coarse under the hood
without ever entering or experiencing real cloud.
>
> Alan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430095#430095
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
Hi Peter.
Sorry but without going through those 869 pages again I can,t remember,
But to comply with everything was a nightmare, ie Course, payment, Dual controls,
insurance, instructor, Examiner, What is states on the back of your permit
etc, about adding ratings , I gave up in the end.
Do remember at the time only two types of GPS were approved,
The kit you have to have is that required for the syllabus ,and I am pretty sure
you have to use an ADF, but that Leeds into another question, can it be a Pseudo
ADF on the GPS, as you know this will not suffer all the errors as the real
ADF, like Coastal Refraction, Wing refraction, Storms, etc, etc,
Its a real tricky subject, as I was finding with the CAA one question lead into
another and my phone bill and time were being eaten away.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430099#430099
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
Peter,
In my experience the missed approach procedure is set up as a means of 'escape'
as a result of the Hazard Analysis on the approach as well as a means to 'going
around' should minimums not be met.
If the primary approach system, ground or aircraft equipment, fails then the missed
approach procedure would be a secondary means of addressing that failure.
In other words on an ILS approach if the ILS fails then the missed approach would
be either of NDB or VOR.
I could go on all day on explaining but it is essentially that premise which often
means that you will see a GPS approach with an alternate NDB or VOR missed
approach procedure.
I've not seen a missed approach on a GPS, or radar, yet but I would expect one
at some time but I think that it would be secondary to another primary approach.
The current equipment list for CAT flights does not require an NDB for Airways
in the UK, this was dropped a few years ago, however they are required to carry
equipment required to undertake the published missed approach procedure.
As I've always flown aircraft fitted with all the requirements, including NDB,
I've never looked at the regulations closer. With the prospect of a Europa possible
being suitable the only thing I know is what is in the public domain via
the LAA at the moment and I have no doubt the next step will be a technical leaflet
providing the necessary guidance in accordance with the ANO as and when
the LAA finalise the work with the CAA.
Alan
G-OBJT
Sent from my iPad
> On 6 Sep 2014, at 10:31, Pete Lawless <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Alan
>
> Did you notice in the 800 plus pages if you still need an ADF to fly a GPS approach?
It certainly was the case at Staverton that you could fly down to limits
with a GPS but needed to use the ADF to go round the hold at 3,000 feet.
>
> Pete
>
>> On 06/09/14 10:06, Alan Carter wrote:
>>
>> Good point Peter.
>> I think if you have certified aeroplanes with certified instruments and avionic
flying along with permit aircraft on airways without certified equipment
would make some people very unhappy, especially having spend 10s of thousands
of pounds on there equipment, my guess it will on similar lines to what the IMC
rating allows you to do which is quite reasonable, for the average light aircraft
pilot .
>> In my chats with the CAA apparently you can do the whole coarse under the hood
without ever entering or experiencing real cloud.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430095#430095
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
Wrt dynon, please keep in mind that their attitude "gyro" algorithm requires valid
airdata (and gps fallback) to prevent drift/tumbling. Every year at oshkosh
I ask if they have resolved their "edge case calculations" to remove the airdata
requirement, and the principles of the co. squirm, go into a long round-about
explanation and finally embarrassingly admit that they have not. I am truly
surprised, as the only situation when I might rely on the attitude indication
is when I might be in potential icing conditions.... Give one a test and
gently blow into the pitot and watch it tumble merrily (as the company's principle
demonstrated to me 5 years ago).
Grand Rapids proudly explain that their EFIS attitude algorithms do not require
any external data (do they likely use their magnetometer?) which therefore may
be more suitable for inadvertent ifr flight. They claim that you can keep their
units in a constant std rate turn (with no airdata or gps) with no drift
tendency (as demonstrated in their helicopter camera aiming application) ......
impressive if true.
Just figured I'd throw that out there,
Cheers,
Pete
A239
> On Sep 6, 2014, at 4:40 AM, Pete Lawless <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
> Anybody know what we are hoping to get out of this. Will you be able to fly
a Europa IFR in Class A as per a fully certified aeroplane?
>
> Pete
>
>> On 06/09/14 06:57, spcialeffects wrote:
>>
>> Hi Brian. Well I for one can't wait for your technical letter out lining what
is acceptable or required as I am putting off buying my panel at the moment
so that I can build a fully accepted IFR fit panel. I am buying dynon throught
out as I consider it value for money.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430091#430091
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
We are so lucky here in Canada and the US, where we can indeed (to the chagrin
of the cert'd owners?).
Cheers,
Pete Z.
a239
> On Sep 6, 2014, at 5:06 AM, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>
>
> Good point Peter.
> I think if you have certified aeroplanes with certified instruments and avionic
flying along with permit aircraft on airways without certified equipment would
make some people very unhappy, especially having spend 10s of thousands
of pounds on there equipment, my guess it will on similar lines to what the IMC
rating allows you to do which is quite reasonable, for the average light aircraft
pilot .
> In my chats with the CAA apparently you can do the whole coarse under the hood
without ever entering or experiencing real cloud.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430095#430095
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
-I believe that its an LAA requirement that if you have a glass cockpit y
ou have to have a secondary altimeter?=0A=0A=0Athe other one=0ASent to you
-by David Joyce=0Awww.eastmidsspas.com- =0A-=0APLEASE NOTE WE HAVE MO
VED AND ARE NOW AT=0AThe Zycomm Building 51 Nottingham Road Ripley Derbys D
E5 3AS=0A160 Meters from Sainsbury's Island=0A-=0ASame Phone 0800 4102122
and Direct Mobile 07973 675755=0A-=0A =0A=0A____________________________
____=0A From: Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com>=0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com"
<europa-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Saturday, 6 September 2014, 13:00=0AS
ubject: Re: Europa-List: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas=0A =0A=0A--
non, please keep in mind that their attitude "gyro" algorithm requires vali
d airdata (and gps fallback) to prevent drift/tumbling. Every year at oshko
sh I ask if they have resolved their "edge case calculations" to remove the
airdata requirement, and the principles of the co. squirm, go into a long
round-about explanation and finally embarrassingly admit that they have not
. I am truly surprised, as the only situation when I might rely on the atti
tude indication is when I might be in potential icing conditions....- Giv
e one a test and gently blow into the pitot and watch it tumble merrily (as
the company's principle demonstrated to me 5 years ago).=0A=0AGrand Rapids
proudly explain that their EFIS attitude algorithms do not require any ext
ernal data (do they likely use their magnetometer?) which therefore may be
more suitable for inadvertent ifr flight.- They claim that you can keep t
heir units in a constant std rate turn (with no airdata or gps) with no dri
ft tendency (as demonstrated in their helicopter camera aiming application)
...... impressive if true.=0A=0AJust figured I'd throw that out there,=0AC
heers,=0APete=0AA239=0A=0A> On Sep 6, 2014, at 4:40 AM, Pete Lawless <pete@
ss <pete@lawless.info>=0A> =0A> Hi=0A> =0A> Anybody know what we are hoping
to get out of this.- Will you be able to fly a Europa IFR in Class A as
per a fully certified aeroplane?=0A> =0A> Pete=0A> =0A>> On 06/09/14 06:57,
s" <spcialeffects@aol.com>=0A>> =0A>> Hi Brian. Well I for one can't wait f
or your technical letter out lining what is acceptable or required as I am
putting off buying my panel at the moment so that I can build a fully accep
ted IFR fit panel. I am buying dynon throught out as I consider it value fo
r money.=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> Read this topic online here:=0A>> =0A
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430091#430091=0A> =0A> =0A
====================
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
Hi Alan
I would therefore interpret this to mean that if you have not got NDB
then you can't fly a GPS approach as your have no fall back.
This link is to he current Staverton GPS chart. It states that missed
approach procedure is only available with the NDB.
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/pamslight/pdf/4e415453/EG/C/EN/Charts/AD/EG_AD_2_EGBJ_8-2_en
Glad to hear the NDB has gone for airways I sold my twin four years ago
and when we rebuilt the panel in 2001 you still needed a fan marker
receiver and display!
Personally for any serious IFR work I want 2 or more of everything - and
that includes engines.
Regards
Pete
On 06/09/14 12:40, Dpy01 wrote:
>
> Peter,
>
> In my experience the missed approach procedure is set up as a means of 'escape'
as a result of the Hazard Analysis on the approach as well as a means to 'going
around' should minimums not be met.
>
> If the primary approach system, ground or aircraft equipment, fails then the
missed approach procedure would be a secondary means of addressing that failure.
>
> In other words on an ILS approach if the ILS fails then the missed approach would
be either of NDB or VOR.
>
> I could go on all day on explaining but it is essentially that premise which
often means that you will see a GPS approach with an alternate NDB or VOR missed
approach procedure.
>
> I've not seen a missed approach on a GPS, or radar, yet but I would expect one
at some time but I think that it would be secondary to another primary approach.
>
> The current equipment list for CAT flights does not require an NDB for Airways
in the UK, this was dropped a few years ago, however they are required to carry
equipment required to undertake the published missed approach procedure.
>
> As I've always flown aircraft fitted with all the requirements, including NDB,
I've never looked at the regulations closer. With the prospect of a Europa possible
being suitable the only thing I know is what is in the public domain via
the LAA at the moment and I have no doubt the next step will be a technical
leaflet providing the necessary guidance in accordance with the ANO as and when
the LAA finalise the work with the CAA.
>
> Alan
> G-OBJT
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 6 Sep 2014, at 10:31, Pete Lawless <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Alan
>>
>> Did you notice in the 800 plus pages if you still need an ADF to fly a GPS approach?
It certainly was the case at Staverton that you could fly down to limits
with a GPS but needed to use the ADF to go round the hold at 3,000 feet.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>> On 06/09/14 10:06, Alan Carter wrote:
>>>
>>> Good point Peter.
>>> I think if you have certified aeroplanes with certified instruments and avionic
flying along with permit aircraft on airways without certified equipment
would make some people very unhappy, especially having spend 10s of thousands
of pounds on there equipment, my guess it will on similar lines to what the
IMC rating allows you to do which is quite reasonable, for the average light aircraft
pilot .
>>> In my chats with the CAA apparently you can do the whole coarse under the hood
without ever entering or experiencing real cloud.
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430095#430095
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
Regarding instrument flying a Europa, can those that have contemplated it tell
me how you overcame the problem of heating a pitot tube, and where you mounted
it? Also, I believe they are greedy for power, hugely, so does all your fancy
navigation devices go dim when you tip turn it on, so you can keep it upright,
but you can't any longer go anywhere anymore, with any certainty? It's all a
bit problematic. Fly a Groundspeed until visual, yes, that could work, but not
for sustained IMC flying.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
Sent from my iPad
> On 6 Sep 2014, at 1:01 pm, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Peter.
> Sorry but without going through those 869 pages again I can,t remember,
> But to comply with everything was a nightmare, ie Course, payment, Dual controls,
insurance, instructor, Examiner, What is states on the back of your permit
etc, about adding ratings , I gave up in the end.
> Do remember at the time only two types of GPS were approved,
> The kit you have to have is that required for the syllabus ,and I am pretty sure
you have to use an ADF, but that Leeds into another question, can it be a
Pseudo ADF on the GPS, as you know this will not suffer all the errors as the
real ADF, like Coastal Refraction, Wing refraction, Storms, etc, etc,
> Its a real tricky subject, as I was finding with the CAA one question lead into
another and my phone bill and time were being eaten away.
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430099#430099
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
Tony,
Pitot heat will not be part of the equation in the UK as the CAA have specified
that the new IR permission for Permit Aircraft will specifically not include
flight into known icing conditions, nor flight near thunderstorm activity.
Dave Watts
> On 6 Sep 2014, at 14:56, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Regarding instrument flying a Europa, can those that have contemplated it tell
me how you overcame the problem of heating a pitot tube, and where you mounted
it? Also, I believe they are greedy for power, hugely, so does all your fancy
navigation devices go dim when you tip turn it on, so you can keep it upright,
but you can't any longer go anywhere anymore, with any certainty? It's all
a bit problematic. Fly a Groundspeed until visual, yes, that could work, but
not for sustained IMC flying.
> Regards
> Tony Renshaw
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 6 Sep 2014, at 1:01 pm, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Peter.
>> Sorry but without going through those 869 pages again I can,t remember,
>> But to comply with everything was a nightmare, ie Course, payment, Dual controls,
insurance, instructor, Examiner, What is states on the back of your permit
etc, about adding ratings , I gave up in the end.
>> Do remember at the time only two types of GPS were approved,
>> The kit you have to have is that required for the syllabus ,and I am pretty
sure you have to use an ADF, but that Leeds into another question, can it be a
Pseudo ADF on the GPS, as you know this will not suffer all the errors as the
real ADF, like Coastal Refraction, Wing refraction, Storms, etc, etc,
>> Its a real tricky subject, as I was finding with the CAA one question lead into
another and my phone bill and time were being eaten away.
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430099#430099
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
Dave
Unfortunately you can get icing when not in 'known icing conditions'.
Known ice requirements are more about prop and airframe de-icing ability
than pitot heat.
Pete
On 06/09/14 15:54, David Watts wrote:
>
> Tony,
>
> Pitot heat will not be part of the equation in the UK as the CAA have specified
that the new IR permission for Permit Aircraft will specifically not include
flight into known icing conditions, nor flight near thunderstorm activity.
>
> Dave Watts
>
>> On 6 Sep 2014, at 14:56, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Regarding instrument flying a Europa, can those that have contemplated it tell
me how you overcame the problem of heating a pitot tube, and where you mounted
it? Also, I believe they are greedy for power, hugely, so does all your fancy
navigation devices go dim when you tip turn it on, so you can keep it upright,
but you can't any longer go anywhere anymore, with any certainty? It's all
a bit problematic. Fly a Groundspeed until visual, yes, that could work, but
not for sustained IMC flying.
>> Regards
>> Tony Renshaw
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On 6 Sep 2014, at 1:01 pm, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Peter.
>>> Sorry but without going through those 869 pages again I can,t remember,
>>> But to comply with everything was a nightmare, ie Course, payment, Dual controls,
insurance, instructor, Examiner, What is states on the back of your permit
etc, about adding ratings , I gave up in the end.
>>> Do remember at the time only two types of GPS were approved,
>>> The kit you have to have is that required for the syllabus ,and I am pretty
sure you have to use an ADF, but that Leeds into another question, can it be
a Pseudo ADF on the GPS, as you know this will not suffer all the errors as the
real ADF, like Coastal Refraction, Wing refraction, Storms, etc, etc,
>>> Its a real tricky subject, as I was finding with the CAA one question lead
into another and my phone bill and time were being eaten away.
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430099#430099
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
Pete,
I realise that of course, I was just getting at the spirit of the way it will be
implemented here in that we will be pretty restricted. I am looking at flying
IR in a Europa as a get out of jail rather than let's go flying regardless
of the sort of rubbish weather we might encounter.
Dave
> On 6 Sep 2014, at 16:17, Pete Lawless <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
>
>
> Dave
>
> Unfortunately you can get icing when not in 'known icing conditions'. Known ice
requirements are more about prop and airframe de-icing ability than pitot heat.
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>> On 06/09/14 15:54, David Watts wrote:
>>
>> Tony,
>>
>> Pitot heat will not be part of the equation in the UK as the CAA have specified
that the new IR permission for Permit Aircraft will specifically not include
flight into known icing conditions, nor flight near thunderstorm activity.
>>
>> Dave Watts
>>
>>> On 6 Sep 2014, at 14:56, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Regarding instrument flying a Europa, can those that have contemplated it tell
me how you overcame the problem of heating a pitot tube, and where you mounted
it? Also, I believe they are greedy for power, hugely, so does all your fancy
navigation devices go dim when you tip turn it on, so you can keep it upright,
but you can't any longer go anywhere anymore, with any certainty? It's all
a bit problematic. Fly a Groundspeed until visual, yes, that could work, but
not for sustained IMC flying.
>>> Regards
>>> Tony Renshaw
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On 6 Sep 2014, at 1:01 pm, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Peter.
>>>> Sorry but without going through those 869 pages again I can,t remember,
>>>> But to comply with everything was a nightmare, ie Course, payment, Dual controls,
insurance, instructor, Examiner, What is states on the back of your permit
etc, about adding ratings , I gave up in the end.
>>>> Do remember at the time only two types of GPS were approved,
>>>> The kit you have to have is that required for the syllabus ,and I am pretty
sure you have to use an ADF, but that Leeds into another question, can it be
a Pseudo ADF on the GPS, as you know this will not suffer all the errors as the
real ADF, like Coastal Refraction, Wing refraction, Storms, etc, etc,
>>>> Its a real tricky subject, as I was finding with the CAA one question lead
into another and my phone bill and time were being eaten away.
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430099#430099
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
Have had iced up pitot on a Seneca coming out of Doncaster. You are then on Power/Performance!!
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
> On 6 Sep 2014, at 16:17, Pete Lawless <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
>
>
> Dave
>
> Unfortunately you can get icing when not in 'known icing conditions'. Known ice
requirements are more about prop and airframe de-icing ability than pitot heat.
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>> On 06/09/14 15:54, David Watts wrote:
>>
>> Tony,
>>
>> Pitot heat will not be part of the equation in the UK as the CAA have specified
that the new IR permission for Permit Aircraft will specifically not include
flight into known icing conditions, nor flight near thunderstorm activity.
>>
>> Dave Watts
>>
>>> On 6 Sep 2014, at 14:56, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Regarding instrument flying a Europa, can those that have contemplated it tell
me how you overcame the problem of heating a pitot tube, and where you mounted
it? Also, I believe they are greedy for power, hugely, so does all your fancy
navigation devices go dim when you tip turn it on, so you can keep it upright,
but you can't any longer go anywhere anymore, with any certainty? It's all
a bit problematic. Fly a Groundspeed until visual, yes, that could work, but
not for sustained IMC flying.
>>> Regards
>>> Tony Renshaw
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On 6 Sep 2014, at 1:01 pm, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Peter.
>>>> Sorry but without going through those 869 pages again I can,t remember,
>>>> But to comply with everything was a nightmare, ie Course, payment, Dual controls,
insurance, instructor, Examiner, What is states on the back of your permit
etc, about adding ratings , I gave up in the end.
>>>> Do remember at the time only two types of GPS were approved,
>>>> The kit you have to have is that required for the syllabus ,and I am pretty
sure you have to use an ADF, but that Leeds into another question, can it be
a Pseudo ADF on the GPS, as you know this will not suffer all the errors as the
real ADF, like Coastal Refraction, Wing refraction, Storms, etc, etc,
>>>> Its a real tricky subject, as I was finding with the CAA one question lead
into another and my phone bill and time were being eaten away.
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430099#430099
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
Dave
In truth this is no more restrictive than for a certified Twin Com with
full wing and prop deice! My aeroplane used to be certified for 'known
light ice' but that was rescinded way back when.
Pete
On 06/09/14 17:10, David Watts wrote:
>
> Pete,
>
> I realise that of course, I was just getting at the spirit of the way it will
be implemented here in that we will be pretty restricted. I am looking at flying
IR in a Europa as a get out of jail rather than let's go flying regardless
of the sort of rubbish weather we might encounter.
>
> Dave
>
>> On 6 Sep 2014, at 16:17, Pete Lawless <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> Unfortunately you can get icing when not in 'known icing conditions'. Known
ice requirements are more about prop and airframe de-icing ability than pitot
heat.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 06/09/14 15:54, David Watts wrote:
>>>
>>> Tony,
>>>
>>> Pitot heat will not be part of the equation in the UK as the CAA have specified
that the new IR permission for Permit Aircraft will specifically not include
flight into known icing conditions, nor flight near thunderstorm activity.
>>>
>>> Dave Watts
>>>
>>>> On 6 Sep 2014, at 14:56, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regarding instrument flying a Europa, can those that have contemplated it
tell me how you overcame the problem of heating a pitot tube, and where you mounted
it? Also, I believe they are greedy for power, hugely, so does all your
fancy navigation devices go dim when you tip turn it on, so you can keep it upright,
but you can't any longer go anywhere anymore, with any certainty? It's
all a bit problematic. Fly a Groundspeed until visual, yes, that could work, but
not for sustained IMC flying.
>>>> Regards
>>>> Tony Renshaw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>> On 6 Sep 2014, at 1:01 pm, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Peter.
>>>>> Sorry but without going through those 869 pages again I can,t remember,
>>>>> But to comply with everything was a nightmare, ie Course, payment, Dual controls,
insurance, instructor, Examiner, What is states on the back of your permit
etc, about adding ratings , I gave up in the end.
>>>>> Do remember at the time only two types of GPS were approved,
>>>>> The kit you have to have is that required for the syllabus ,and I am pretty
sure you have to use an ADF, but that Leeds into another question, can it be
a Pseudo ADF on the GPS, as you know this will not suffer all the errors as
the real ADF, like Coastal Refraction, Wing refraction, Storms, etc, etc,
>>>>> Its a real tricky subject, as I was finding with the CAA one question lead
into another and my phone bill and time were being eaten away.
>>>>> Alan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430099#430099
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
Dynon heat regulated pitot tube works great.
Christoph
#223
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 6, 2014, at 10:57, "Tony Renshaw" <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Regarding instrument flying a Europa, can those that have contemplated it tell
me how you overcame the problem of heating a pitot tube, and where you mounted
it? Also, I believe they are greedy for power, hugely, so does all your fancy
navigation devices go dim when you tip turn it on, so you can keep it upright,
but you can't any longer go anywhere anymore, with any certainty? It's all
a bit problematic. Fly a Groundspeed until visual, yes, that could work, but
not for sustained IMC flying.
> Regards
> Tony Renshaw
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 6 Sep 2014, at 1:01 pm, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Peter.
>> Sorry but without going through those 869 pages again I can,t remember,
>> But to comply with everything was a nightmare, ie Course, payment, Dual controls,
insurance, instructor, Examiner, What is states on the back of your permit
etc, about adding ratings , I gave up in the end.
>> Do remember at the time only two types of GPS were approved,
>> The kit you have to have is that required for the syllabus ,and I am pretty
sure you have to use an ADF, but that Leeds into another question, can it be a
Pseudo ADF on the GPS, as you know this will not suffer all the errors as the
real ADF, like Coastal Refraction, Wing refraction, Storms, etc, etc,
>> Its a real tricky subject, as I was finding with the CAA one question lead into
another and my phone bill and time were being eaten away.
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430099#430099
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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