Europa-List Digest Archive

Wed 09/10/14


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:59 AM - Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (jonathanmilbank)
     2. 01:32 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Brian Davies)
     3. 02:24 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
     4. 03:16 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Brian Davies)
     5. 03:38 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
     6. 03:47 AM - Re: Texel wonderful again (Roland)
     7. 06:26 AM - Re: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas (Paul McAllister)
     8. 01:03 PM - Re: Fuel Caps for the Europa Fleet. (Kelvin Weston)
     9. 01:44 PM - Fwd Aft movement at wing tip (Kelvin Weston)
    10. 02:04 PM - Rotax Fly Dat (Alan Carter)
    11. 02:27 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Caps for the Europa Fleet. (Bud Yerly)
    12. 02:29 PM - Fw: 70mm Fuel Cap (Bud Yerly)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:59:59 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas
    From: "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
    There is one fact which I have already mentioned and which won't go away, regardless of all the various rationalisations about stability and accident statistics in other countries. Unless an airframe made of glass- or carbon-fibre composite incorporates metal mesh or some other means of dissipating electrical charges, it should be flown very far away from potential lightning. This can only be achieved by "see and avoid" in the absence of electronic detection devices. Forecasts are next to useless in this context. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430273#430273


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:32:36 AM PST US
    From: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies@clara.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas
    The UK CAA and EASA have been moving away from rule based regulation towards risk based regulation. They have now accepted that "one size fits all" regulation has severely damaged general aviation in Europe. The general public would expect a lower level of risk to be taken on a public transport flight where they have no control over the decisions taken to protect them from harm. Participants in sports and recreation activities can, if they want, accept a higher level of risk. E.g. bungee jumping, skiing, water skiing etc. In sport and recreational flying we can decide to accept a higher level of risk if we want. It is our choice. Once the regulations have been amended in the UK it will be our choice to take advantage of the amended regulations regarding night/IFR in permit aircraft. The danger to un-involved third parties is judged to be acceptably low. If the balance of risks do not match your person risk profile then don't do it. Jonathon is quite right- a lightning strike in a composite aircraft may well result in a fatality if no means of dissipating the charge is provided. You can mitigate that risk to an extent by not flying IFR (IMC) in conditions that are conducive to lightning strikes. It will be your, informed, choice rather than being told what to do by a regulator. Regards Brian Davies -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jonathanmilbank Sent: 10 September 2014 08:59 Subject: Europa-List: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas --> <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk> There is one fact which I have already mentioned and which won't go away, regardless of all the various rationalisations about stability and accident statistics in other countries. Unless an airframe made of glass- or carbon-fibre composite incorporates metal mesh or some other means of dissipating electrical charges, it should be flown very far away from potential lightning. This can only be achieved by "see and avoid" in the absence of electronic detection devices. Forecasts are next to useless in this context. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430273#430273 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com


    Message 3


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    Time: 02:24:18 AM PST US
    From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas
    =0A=0ABrian=0AOne Europa had a lightning strike which took out most of the electronics and the lights.=0AIt happened many miles from the nearest cloud if I remember correctly. =0AGraham=0A=0A________________________________ =0A From: Brian Davies <brian.davies@clara.co.uk>=0A=0A--> Europa-List mess age posted by: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies@clara.co.uk>=0A=0AUnless an air frame made of glass- or carbon-fibre composite incorporates=0Ametal mesh or some other means of dissipating electrical charges, it should=0Abe flown v ery far away from potential lightning.=0A=0AThis can only be achieved by "s ee and avoid" in the absence of electronic=0Adetection devices. Forecasts a re next to useless in this context.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online he re:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430273#430273=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----=0ANo virus found in this message.=0A =


    Message 4


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    Time: 03:16:11 AM PST US
    From: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies@clara.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas
    Hi Graham So it could have happened in VFR conditions. Masses of data examined on this subject, basically showing very low probability but high consequences for composite aircraft. Very different for Public Transport operations, where lightning strikes are common and the consequences are low. There is a risk from many hazards every time we go flying in less than perfect weather. It is our choice to go flying or stay on the ground. Incidentally, I let my IMCR lapse when I finished building my Europa and I do not intend to renew it. Too old and too slow now. Regards Brian From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: 10 September 2014 10:21 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas Brian One Europa had a lightning strike which took out most of the electronics and the lights. It happened many miles from the nearest cloud if I remember correctly. Graham _____ From: Brian Davies <brian.davies@clara.co.uk> Unless an airframe made of glass- or carbon-fibre composite incorporates metal mesh or some other means of dissipating electrical charges, it should be flown very far away from potential lightning. This can only be achieved by "see and avoid" in the absence of electronic detection devices. Forecasts are next to useless in this context. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430273#430273 ----- No virus found in this mes"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank">http://w -Matt Dralle, List Admin.====== No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com


    Message 5


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    Time: 03:38:52 AM PST US
    From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas
    Brian=0AI know the feeling! But I think it's not so much speed, more the ab ility to multitask that declines.=0A=0A=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A__________________ ______________=0A From: Brian Davies <brian.davies@clara.co.uk>=0ATo: europ a-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, 10 September 2014, 11:15=0ASubject : RE: Europa-List: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas=0A =0A=0A=0AHi Gra ham=0A-=0ASo it could have happened in VFR conditions.- Masses of data examined on this subject, basically showing very low probability but high c onsequences for composite aircraft. Very different for Public Transport ope rations, where lightning strikes are common and the consequences are -low . There is a risk from many hazards every time we go flying in less than pe rfect weather. It is our choice to go flying or stay on the ground.=0A- =0AIncidentally, I let my IMCR lapse when I finished building my Europa and I do not intend to renew it.- Too old and too slow now.=0A-=0ARegards =0A-=0ABrian=0A-=0AFrom:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON=0ASen t: 10 September 2014 10:21=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: E uropa-List: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas=0A-=0A-=0ABrian=0AOne Europa had a lightning strike which took out most of the electronics and t he lights.=0AIt happened many miles from the nearest cloud if I remember co rrectly. =0AGraham=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0AFrom:Brian Da ian Davies" <brian.davies@clara.co.uk>=0A=0AUnless an airframe made of glas s- or carbon-fibre composite incorporates=0Ametal mesh or some other means of dissipating electrical charges, it should=0Abe flown very far away from potential lightning.=0A=0AThis can only be achieved by "see and avoid" in t he absence of electronic=0Adetection devices. Forecasts are next to useless in this context.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://fo rums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430273#430273=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----=0ANo virus found in this mes"http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank">http://w - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.========0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-=0A -=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0Ahttp://forums.matron ics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A-=0ANo virus found in t his message.=0AChecked by AVG - www.avg.com=0AVersion: 2014.0.4765 / 09/10/ ===============


    Message 6


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    Time: 03:47:35 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Texel wonderful again
    From: "Roland" <schmidtroland@web.de>
    A big THANK YOU also from me, especially to Jaqueline, Marianne and Henk Roelofs :-) Roland PH-ZTI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430280#430280


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:26:26 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas
    From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
    Ha ha Graham..... that would be me that took a hit in clear VFR. As a result I became an early adopter of the XM weather system. To this day I don't know why my aircraft wasn't turned into a burn't potato crisp. Just lucky I guess. To be honest it's picking up ice on the Europa's laminar flow wing that scares me. I recall one occasion when I was flying to my home base in my Comanche enjoying the clear blue at 3500' and had to do a very modest ILS down to 1200 ~ 1500'. I doubt if the cloud layer was 2000' thick and I picked up so much ice that the wings looked like the inside of a freezer and I couldn't see out of the wind screen. I had to land it by looking out the side window. This stuff wasn't in the forecast and I know that it wouldn't have had a happy ending in my Europa. I do stand by my comment that it isn't a great instrument platform. IMHO there are two aspects to this, unless the conditions are particularly benign then you do find yourself being "bounced" around and off the glide slope fairly easily. The other aspect is that once you are configured for landing you are flying slowly so you spend much more time on the approach, hence the opportunity to drift off is greater With that said, I need to add some context. The heaviest aircraft I have flown in IMC and on an approach is a CASA which weighs 20x what my Euorpa weighs and has much higher approach speed. These types of aircraft are much easier to fly approaches in. I agree with Jon that certifying a Europa for instrument conditions isn't much different than C150's and I doubt if we will see a bunch of Europa's doing CFIT or falling out of the sky on an approach. With that said, it all comes down to our risk profile, if we don't plan on poking around in "bad stuff" and running down ILS minimums then life is good. As someone else commented, its a better situation that scud running in marginal conditions. I think its great to see the authorities in the UK being open to change. Cheers, Paul On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 4:20 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON < grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote: > > Brian > One Europa had a lightning strike which took out most of the electronics > and the lights. > It happened many miles from the nearest cloud if I remember correctly. > Graham >


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:03:22 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuel Caps for the Europa Fleet.
    From: "Kelvin Weston" <kelv@kdweston.biz>
    Bud I hope you can clear up my confusion over the fuel cap problem. I have the old 70mm cap and flange supplied with my XS kit around 2001 - not yet fitted. As you stated it has the tapered edge to the cap measuring 70mm at the max diameter and the receptacle flange has a similar taper. Around 2005, I purchased a locking cap from Europa which is indeed 65mm max diameter due to the tapered edge having been machined square. However, having measured almost every dimension on each cap with a digital vernier, I can find no significant difference between the two caps. The O-rings are the same 57mm x 3mm size and the O-ring groove and position on the cap result in identical O-ring position and dimension when fitted. The O-ring sits in exactly the same position on the receptacle flange when the 65mm cap is fitted and when tested to 10psi there was no leakage from either cap. The only difference would appear to be the gap around the cap when fitted to the old type receptacle caused by the square machined edge. Am I missing something. I know some are reporting leaking caps but could this be due to the cam mechanism being incorrectly adjusted to obtain an effective seal of the O-ring. -------- Regards Kelv Weston Kit 497 kelv@kdweston.biz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430313#430313 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0991_167.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0989_594.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0988_570.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0984_444.jpg


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:44:24 PM PST US
    Subject: Fwd Aft movement at wing tip
    From: "Kelvin Weston" <kelv@kdweston.biz>
    All Have just finished fitting the fwd W27 and aft W26 wing sockets to the fuselage and everything looks good. Wing angle is good on both sides and checked at mid-point and wing tip. Fwd aft sweep measured at several points is good. String from each wingtip is parallel with the spars. Both wings assemble easily and both main spar pins fit with a firm push and a bit of effort. However, when assembled there is a small amount of fwd aft movement at both wingtips relative to the fuselage. As far as I can tell this is entirely due to the movement of the parts making up the aft W26 socket. The pip pin is a good fit and the small amount of movement is between the W26C barrel and the W26A body. It is a small movement but over the span of the wing is obviously magnified. I have checked the gap between the fwd W27 sockets and the wing root rib and the gap is 0.8 to 0.9mm both sides. Should I be worried about this fwd aft movement. I have no wing root fairings on at present and guess this would help limit the fwd aft movement when finally fitted. I hope I am worrying about nothing but all opinions, views appreciated to put my mind at rest. -------- Regards Kelv Weston Kit 497 kelv@kdweston.biz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430316#430316


    Message 10


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    Time: 02:04:45 PM PST US
    Subject: Rotax Fly Dat
    From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net>
    Hi All. Live in Kent, in UK . closest place to get my Rotax Flydat reset, ??? ie, plug in socket front right side of display, for Rotax computer Regards. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430317#430317


    Message 11


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    Time: 02:27:10 PM PST US
    From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: Fuel Caps for the Europa Fleet.
    Sorry Kelvin, I have been assured that the cap doesn't quite seal due to the taper of the aluminum. Regards, Bud Yerly ----- Original Message ----- From: Kelvin Weston<mailto:kelv@kdweston.biz> To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 4:02 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Caps for the Europa Fleet. <kelv@kdweston.biz<mailto:kelv@kdweston.biz>> Bud I hope you can clear up my confusion over the fuel cap problem. I have the old 70mm cap and flange supplied with my XS kit around 2001 - not yet fitted. As you stated it has the tapered edge to the cap measuring 70mm at the max diameter and the receptacle flange has a similar taper. Around 2005, I purchased a locking cap from Europa which is indeed 65mm max diameter due to the tapered edge having been machined square. However, having measured almost every dimension on each cap with a digital vernier, I can find no significant difference between the two caps. The O-rings are the same 57mm x 3mm size and the O-ring groove and position on the cap result in identical O-ring position and dimension when fitted. The O-ring sits in exactly the same position on the receptacle flange when the 65mm cap is fitted and when tested to 10psi there was no leakage from either cap. The only difference would appear to be the gap around the cap when fitted to the old type receptacle caused by the square machined edge. Am I missing something. I know some are reporting leaking caps but could this be due to the cam mechanism being incorrectly adjusted to obtain an effective seal of the O-ring. -------- Regards Kelv Weston Kit 497 kelv@kdweston.biz<mailto:kelv@kdweston.biz> Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430313#430313<http://forums .matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430313#430313> Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0991_167.jpg<http://forums.matroni cs.com//files/dscf0991_167.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0989_594.jpg<http://forums.matroni cs.com//files/dscf0989_594.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0988_570.jpg<http://forums.matroni cs.com//files/dscf0988_570.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0984_444.jpg<http://forums.matroni cs.com//files/dscf0984_444.jpg> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?Europa-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi on>


    Message 12


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    Time: 02:29:04 PM PST US
    From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly@msn.com>
    Subject: Fw: 70mm Fuel Cap
    ----- Original Message ----- From: Bud Yerly<mailto:budyerly@msn.com> jim.davis1@me.com<mailto:jim.davis1@me.com> ; Jeremy Fisher<mailto:jffisher@gmail.com> ; frans@privatepilots.nl<mailto:frans@privatepilots.nl> ; craig<mailto:craigb@onthenet.com.au> ; Brian Phillips<mailto:barp99@gmail.com> Cc: budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@msn.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 3:33 PM Subject: Re: 70mm Fuel Cap Jerry Fisher, Craig B from Downunder I think., Brian Davies (sorry I missed your email earlier), Frans, and Brian Those who did not go direct to my email budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@msn.com> had a high miss rate due to spam blockers etc. For Jerry and Craig, I still don't see you in my personal email or even on my europa list, but I will add you on with Brian Davis who I missed in my junk mail. No offense guys, just too many emails sometimes. I am sending with this matronics general email a direct email to your personal email address requesting shipping info. from those who have yet to supply it or are not in my customer database. Email me at budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@msn.com> with your full name, shipping address, phone contact, and any special instructions. NOT THE EUROPA LIST! WE ARE WORKING ON A FUEL CAP RETENTION CABLE/CHAIN THAT IS WORKABLE FOR THE XS WHERE IT WILL NOT HANG DOWN AND SCRATCH UP THE PAINT DURING REFUEL TO PREVENT LOSSES OF THE CAP! CAPS ARE NEARLY READY TO SHIP FROM SPRL. I only have 50 coming. Final list as I see it is: Qty<> Name First Last Shipping info on hand? Y/N 1 Homer Baker Y 1 Jim & Heather Butcher Y 1 Ira Rampil Y 1 Jerry Hope Y 1 George Reed Y 1 Steve Staal Y 2 Alan & Kate Burrows Y 1 Dave Anderson Y 1 Rick Stockton Y 1 Todd Johnson Y 1 Karl Heindl Y 1 Bob Borger Y 1 Brett Brown Y 1 John Lawton Y 0 1 Richard Kundle Y 1 Jerry Rehn Y 1 Danny Shepherd Y 1 Richard Schultz Y 1 Bill McClellan Y 1 Jim Davis N 1 Jeff Roberts Y 1 Hal Carpenter Y 1 Dave Park Y 1 Goff Moore Y 1 Paul McAllister Y 1 Brad Shafer Y 1 Andy Ringrose Y 1 Troy Maynor Y 1 Bill Bell Y 1 Rod Palmer Y 1 Brian Fogg Y 1 Hans-Peter Reusser Y 1 Kevin Klienfelter Y 1 Tony Higgins Y 1 John Firth Y 1 Dan Geldermann Y 1 Greg Fuchs Y 1 Lee Vaughan Y 1 Kyle Phillipson Y 1 Mark Harvey Y 1 Lance Sanford Y 1 Fred Klien Y 1 John Price Y 1 Jerry Fisher N 1 Frans Veldman N 1 Craig craigb@onthenet.com.au N 1 Brian Phillips N 1 Brian Davies Y 49 Reminder again, If you see the N in the column for shipping address on file email your complete shipping address and a phone number please to: budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@msn.com>. Please do this off line so we don't get in trouble with Matronics. Regards, Bud Yerly ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Davies<mailto:bdavies@dircon.co.uk> To: budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@msn.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 1:53 PM Subject: 70mm Fuel Cap Hi Bud, I did request a cap from you when you first asked for interest but I am not on your list so the message must have got lost in the ether. Please put me in your order list if it is not too late. Best regards Brian Davies Wedges Farmhouse Bashurst Hill Horsham West Sussex RH13 0PE UK




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