---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/29/14: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:59 AM - Re: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge (David Watts) 2. 02:51 AM - Re: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 3. 04:06 AM - Re: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge (spcialeffects) 4. 04:43 AM - Re: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge (Alan Carter) 5. 06:27 AM - A few sinking floats in Bing carbs 912 engines (jonathanmilbank) 6. 06:56 AM - Re: A few sinking floats in Bing carbs 912 engines (Robert Borger) 7. 07:50 AM - Re: A few sinking floats in Bing carbs 912 engines (jonathanmilbank) 8. 08:31 AM - Re: A few sinking floats in Bing carbs 912 engines (rampil) 9. 08:42 AM - Re: Re: A few sinking floats in Bing carbs 912 engines (Kevin Challis) 10. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: A few sinking floats in Bing carbs 912 engines (Kevin Challis) 11. 09:02 AM - Re: Re: Ground/earth (Steven Pitt) 12. 09:11 AM - Rotax 912 or 914 suspension frame aka ring mount (William Daniell) 13. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge (Greg Fuchs) 14. 09:18 AM - Re: Re: Ground/earth (Peter Zutrauen) 15. 10:05 AM - Re: Re: Ground/earth (Rowland Carson) 16. 11:41 AM - Re: A few sinking floats in Bing carbs 912 engines (dpy01) 17. 11:55 AM - Re: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge (Alan Carter) 18. 02:02 PM - Re: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge (graeme bird) 19. 03:43 PM - Re: Andair help (phillik747) 20. 03:53 PM - Re: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge (Alan Carter) 21. 04:31 PM - Re: Re: Andair help (Robert Borger) 22. 04:51 PM - Re: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge (Alan Carter) 23. 05:16 PM - Re: Andair help (phillik747) 24. 06:56 PM - Re: Ground/earth (rampil) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:59:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge From: David Watts Alan Mod 60 has a sender probe that is a solid 1/2" diameter tube 13" long with a float around it. This would prevent you from locating any place other than the headrests as it can't be bent or cut down. Dave Watts G-BXDY > On 28 Oct 2014, at 22:41, Alan Carter wrote: > > > Hi All. > Has anybody done Mod 60. The Europa Fuel sender fit, > I have looked at it and its not simple as the sender unit is placed in the headrest Pocket locker location and requires new hole cutting in the tank. > I would like to place the sender in the existing location of my sender which is in the middle of the tank, so as to use and modify my existing hole. > This would also be dependent on the length of the sender to touch the bottom of the middle of the tank with a setting of Zero ,this would leave a safety factor or the fuel in the saddle, which I think might be about 8 ltrs ? > So if anyone has fitted Mod 60, would my way be possible, > > Thanks. > Alan > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432431#432431 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:10 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge We once machined a wedge shaped mount to fit one in the centre. Not easy bu t we did it.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A Fro m: David Watts =0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Wednesday, 29 October 2014, 7:58=0ASubje ct: Re: Europa-List: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge=0A =0A=0A--> Europa-List mess age posted by: David Watts =0A=0AAlan=0A=0AMod 60 ha s a sender probe that is a solid 1/2" diameter tube 13" long with a float a round it. This would prevent you from locating any place other than the hea drests as it can't be bent or cut down.=0A=0ADave Watts G-BXDY=0A=0A=0A> On 28 Oct 2014, at 22:41, Alan Carter wrote:=0A> .net>=0A> =0A> Hi All.=0A> Has anybody done Mod 60. The Europa Fuel sender fit,=0A> I have looked at it and its not simple as the sender unit is place d in the headrest Pocket locker location and requires new hole cutting in t he tank.=0A> I would like to place the sender in the existing location of m y sender which is in the middle of the tank, so as to use and modify my exi sting hole.=0A> This would also be dependent on the length of the sender to touch the bottom of the middle of the tank with a setting of Zero ,this wo uld leave a safety factor or the fuel in the saddle, which I think might be about 8 ltrs ?=0A> So if anyone has fitted Mod 60, would my way be possibl e,=0A> =0A> Thanks.=0A> Alan=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432431#432431 =- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle ======== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:15 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge From: "spcialeffects" Hi Alan. I'm building at the moment. Haven't boned on the top yet so have good access to bottom fuselage for visuals. Also I have a spare fuel tank and plenty of photos of my build which may be of use to you to see the inside of the tank and get a better understanding of what your wanting to do. I'm also in kent so if you want to pop round for a look your welcome. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432446#432446 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:57 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge From: "Alan Carter" Hi All. Why are things made so difficult, my sender fails, and I end up with a major fix, it should be just a job of un screwing and fitting a new one or an adaptor plate to fit a different one. I am no builder, but I know I would have thought of this before and included it in my design and i,m no genius. All I want is an Avelec sender rod, just un glue it at the top, pull it out and slid a new one in, connect the wires , job done, Special effects, Can you tell me what the depth of the tank is at the centre, Maybe I can mount it at an angle or find a sender or something that will do . David said it was 13 " long , with a ruler can you give approximate angle. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432448#432448 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:50 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: A few sinking floats in Bing carbs 912 engines From: "jonathanmilbank" Does anyone have details of this problem? Someone told me today about a notice this October from Rotax concerning certain engine serial numbers which could experience sinking floats. I can't find anything on the web, but here's a link to the Matronics Rotax list. http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=105093 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432453#432453 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: A few sinking floats in Bing carbs 912 engines From: Robert Borger Jonathan: Here is a link to the Rotax Service Bulletin -- http://www.rotax-owner.com/rotax-blog/item/34-912-914-float-inspection Here is a link to the expanded information video on how to perform the test -- http://www.rotax-owner.com/videos-topmenu/expanded-video-instructions/445-sb912065 Sign up at Rotax-Owner.com to receive e-mail notification of Rotax bulletins and other information. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Oct 29, 2014, at 8:26 AM, jonathanmilbank wrote: Does anyone have details of this problem? Someone told me today about a notice this October from Rotax concerning certain engine serial numbers which could experience sinking floats. I can't find anything on the web, but here's a link to the Matronics Rotax list. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:25 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: A few sinking floats in Bing carbs 912 engines From: "jonathanmilbank" Thanks Bob. My engine number is considerably older and I believe my carbs/floats likewise. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432459#432459 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:26 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: A few sinking floats in Bing carbs 912 engines From: "rampil" The official Rotax web site allows you to search for directives, Bulletins, letters, etc all by engine serial number or type. Far faster, more direct and reliable than fishing and waiting here for answers regarding Rotax directives here. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432462#432462 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:48 AM PST US From: Kevin Challis Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: A few sinking floats in Bing carbs 912 engines I had a non floating float last year the ones I bought to replace it were in the affected batch so Skydrive sent me a letter. Luckily the new ones are ok although they say you need to check every 60 days which is not practical. Kevin G ODJG Tri gear 912S > On 29 Oct 2014, at 14:49, jonathanmilbank wrote: > > > Thanks Bob. My engine number is considerably older and I believe my carbs/floats likewise. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432459#432459 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:16 AM PST US From: Kevin Challis Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: A few sinking floats in Bing carbs 912 engines My engine is older but still had a non floating float! It still ran so worth checking no matter how old your engine. Sent from my iPad > On 29 Oct 2014, at 14:49, jonathanmilbank wrote: > > > Thanks Bob. My engine number is considerably older and I believe my carbs/floats likewise. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432459#432459 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:19 AM PST US From: "Steven Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Ground/earth Ira/Ferg/Peter Your input came at just the moment I am rewiring my radio and transponder equipment for mode S and 8.33khz and I was reviewing my ground/earth installation. As a non aviation electrician I have always been confused by these concepts and the issue of earth loops so can I ask for clarification. Shielded wire for the mikes and phones are shown as connected in the Trig diagrams so that suggests to me that connecting them all together and then running one wire back to the battery negative contact would be the way to go. But then what about the ground strap to the engine block and the PTT wires which are shown as 'earthed'. How can you do that in a plastic aircraft. Sorry if this is really basic and although I have been flying for 8 years in 'DH I have always been uncertain that I had wired up the grounds correctly. Regards Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "rampil" Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 2:09 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Ground/earth > > Hi Ferg! > > Sorry, but there is no Ground but The Ground in a composite aircraft! > > That is to say, the negative side of the battery. > >>From that it is simply a matter of practice in > minimizing the resistance back to that point. Noise is created when > changing current flows move across a resistance, and those changes > in current occur at high enough frequency to radiate to adjacent > conductors. > > Prevention of noise therefore seeks to minimize resistance to ground, > and improve shielding. > > Ira > > -------- > Ira N224XS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432404#432404 > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:43 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 912 or 914 suspension frame aka ring mount From: William Daniell Has anyone got one of the above for sale...it doesn't really matter which version it is? or know of a good source I tried Lockwood but they couldn't get one. UK or USA would work thanks Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:06 AM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge I've never used a capacitance sender, but I think they can be cut to size if they're too long? Could that help at all, or maybe I'm not following close enough here.. // tell me what the depth of the tank is at the centre, Maybe I can mount it at an angle or find a sender or something that will do . // Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432448#432448 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:14 AM PST US From: Peter Zutrauen Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Ground/earth The jack shields should be only connected to the radio ground - at the radio, as well as the jack common terminal - as shown in the trig diagrams. The jack common terminal must not be grounded to any other ground or a loop will result, with possible nasty effects. (if in my case the jacks are mounted in a metal airframe, they must be isolated from the airframe using insulating washers). IMHO, YMMV, "works for me" :-) Cheers, Pete On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 12:01 PM, Steven Pitt wrote: > steven.pitt2@ntlworld.com> > > Ira/Ferg/Peter > Your input came at just the moment I am rewiring my radio and transponder > equipment for mode S and 8.33khz and I was reviewing my ground/earth > installation. > As a non aviation electrician I have always been confused by these > concepts and the issue of earth loops so can I ask for clarification. > Shielded wire for the mikes and phones are shown as connected in the Trig > diagrams so that suggests to me that connecting them all together and then > running one wire back to the battery negative contact would be the way to > go. > But then what about the ground strap to the engine block and the PTT wires > which are shown as 'earthed'. How can you do that in a plastic aircraft. > Sorry if this is really basic and although I have been flying for 8 years > in 'DH I have always been uncertain that I had wired up the grounds > correctly. > Regards > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- From: "rampil" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 2:09 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Ground/earth > > >> >> Hi Ferg! >> >> Sorry, but there is no Ground but The Ground in a composite aircraft! >> >> That is to say, the negative side of the battery. >> >> From that it is simply a matter of practice in >>> >> minimizing the resistance back to that point. Noise is created when >> changing current flows move across a resistance, and those changes >> in current occur at high enough frequency to radiate to adjacent >> conductors. >> >> Prevention of noise therefore seeks to minimize resistance to ground, >> and improve shielding. >> >> Ira >> >> -------- >> Ira N224XS >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432404#432404 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Ground/earth From: Rowland Carson On 29 Oct 2014, at 16:01, Steven Pitt wrote: > Ira/Ferg/Peter > Your input came at just the moment I am rewiring my radio and transponder equipment for mode S and 8.33khz and I was reviewing my ground/earth installation. > As a non aviation electrician I have always been confused by these concepts and the issue of earth loops so can I ask for clarification. > Shielded wire for the mikes and phones are shown as connected in the Trig diagrams so that suggests to me that connecting them all together and then running one wire back to the battery negative contact would be the way to go. > But then what about the ground strap to the engine block and the PTT wires which are shown as 'earthed'. How can you do that in a plastic aircraft. > Sorry if this is really basic and although I have been flying for 8 years in 'DH I have always been uncertain that I had wired up the grounds correctly. Steve - you can get good advice about this and many other aeroplane wiring issues from 'Lectric Bob. His website is at: http://www.aeroelectric.com Many years ago I purchased a paper copy of the AeroElectric Connection which helped me translate many of the principles I already knew as an electrical/electronic/audio engineer into practical guidelines for wiring my aircraft. You can get the publication on paper or CD-ROM, or you can just wade into the Matronics AeroElectric list and start asking questions. You can also see how I planned my own electrical installation at: http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/wirebook.php There are many references in my diagrams to common earth either cockpit side or engine side. This is a couple of stout metal plates fastened together through the firewall, with many tabs on each side for 1/4 blade connectors, and a big terminal to connect to the battery negative. B & C Speciality makes this item and you can see it at: http://www.bandc.biz/grounding-supplies-battery-cables.aspx In UK, Airworld stocks it: http://shop.airworlduk.com/ground-bus-2448-position-300941-367-p.asp Everything that requires to be earthed or grounded has a wire running all the way back to that block of tabs. On my main circuit diagram (based on the one in the Europa build manual) a line marked ground return busbar is shown. To match the physical reality, that should really be shown as a single point, but that would make the diagram very messy. Hope this helps. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:53 AM PST US From: dpy01 Subject: Re: Europa-List: A few sinking floats in Bing carbs 912 engines The following was issued by Conair in the UK to iRMT holders. Rotax have issued the following bulletin, which can be downloaded from www.f lyrotax.com : SB-912-065 (UL) / SB-914-046 (UL), October 06, 2014 Periodic Inspection of the float buoyancy for Rotax Engine Type 912 and 914 ( series). They have also issued a separate procedure agreed with Rotax making a simple r check for non certified engines. I have done the later and it involves ensuring the float bowl is full of fue l before dropping the bowl and checking the height of the float. Alan G-OBJT Sent from my iPhone > On 29 Oct 2014, at 13:26, jonathanmilbank wrote: > k> > > Does anyone have details of this problem? Someone told me today about a no tice this October from Rotax concerning certain engine serial numbers which c ould experience sinking floats. I can't find anything on the web, but here's a link to the Matronics Rotax list. > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=105093 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432453#432453 > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:01 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge From: "Alan Carter" Hello. Yes I think you can cut them to length, Avelec still are not responding to e mail. At the moment I have a Plastic Boss with a sender mounted in the Boss at an angle of 30 degrees, If I can find something suitable, I would try to pull the old sender out of this plastic boss, and resin a new one in place. This would require a complete kit, Sender, processer, and gauge. But I can,t find one.??? I have a private mail , saying fitting the Europa sender was the most difficult job he had encountered due to its position. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432491#432491 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:02:37 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge From: "graeme bird" Can you replace it with one from Airworld UK? I fitted that one, they are capacitance type that can be cut to length, the head is round though. Its reliable enough, although due to the shape of the tank is not very linear (reading half is more like a quarter). Actually I find the sight gauge is best for a static on ground check when filling etc and a EI FP5-L fuel flow instrument fairly spot on when in the air. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 135 hours 32 months on the Mono g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432495#432495 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:41 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Andair help From: "phillik747" Still looking for help on the faceplate. Also need 3 of the BF20-E banjo fittings. Aircraft Spruce said they could get them for me but a much higher price then just ordering from Andair. If anyone has some parts laying around, I'm willing to buy. Thanks, Kyle -------- Kyle Europa Tri-gear (under construction) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432502#432502 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:26 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge From: "Alan Carter" Hi. That EI FP5-L looks an expensive piece of kit, looks very nice, I have just install the MGL have not calibrated it yet so don,t now how accurate it is, Senders, I was looking at this one, http://www.atlltd.com/upload_files/341/ELAD151%20%20152%20Level%20Probe.%20Calibration%20Instructions%20012012.pdf But the Air world might do the job, Seem to be making some head way now, thanks, Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432503#432503 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Andair help From: Robert Borger Kyle, Have you tried anplumbing.com for the banjos and bolts? They have a pretty good selection. Cant help with the faceplate. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Oct 29, 2014, at 5:42 PM, phillik747 wrote: Still looking for help on the faceplate. Also need 3 of the BF20-E banjo fittings. Aircraft Spruce said they could get them for me but a much higher price then just ordering from Andair. If anyone has some parts laying around, I'm willing to buy. Thanks, Kyle -------- Kyle Europa Tri-gear (under construction) ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:44 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 60 Europa Fuel Gauge From: "Alan Carter" Hello All. I think I can use one of the mentioned sender units. The resistor type which can be cut to length, the Air world looks like it might do the trick, The ridge rod sender placed in the original 30 degree sloping hole in the boss on the tank and resin bonded, My concern is the small hole in the sender tube at the top. this I think senses the maximum full level. This hole will possible not be far enough down the tube, but will be in the plastic of the boss mounting. Any Comment on this as to overcome the problem. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432513#432513 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:47 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Andair help From: "phillik747" Bob, Thank you for the reply. I'm looking specifically for the Andair fitting but that is a good site to bookmark. The Andair valve came in the 2nd hand kit but its missing the needed parts for finishing. -------- Kyle Europa Tri-gear (under construction) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432517#432517 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:05 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Ground/earth From: "rampil" Hi Steve! I also endorse Bob's treatise which you can download from his aeroelectric site. Bob's "forest of tabs" is a convenient way to tie all of your panel grounds together with minimal resistance. The tab field can conveniently be bolted to the bottom of your panel molding. You will probably need above 50 tab points for all the panel grounds. From the ground tabs reserve two or three tabs for #8 or 10 ga wires to an amphenol connector through the firewall. On the other side of the firewall a 1/4" bolt is convenient to attach ring crimp connectors to the battery and to the engine block. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432528#432528 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.