---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/04/14: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:04 AM - Re: Min turns on rod ends, and a stick height dimension request (Richard Collings) 2. 11:40 AM - Re: Min turns on rod ends, and a stick height dimension request (Tony Renshaw) 3. 11:45 AM - Resin Systems (Tony Renshaw) 4. 12:05 PM - Ampreg 22, not approved by Europa?? (Tony Renshaw) 5. 12:32 PM - static ports (Paul & Vanessa Munford) 6. 12:47 PM - Re: Resin Systems (Richard Collings) 7. 12:52 PM - Re: static ports (Richard Collings) 8. 01:01 PM - Re: Resin Systems (Pete) 9. 01:48 PM - Re: Resin Systems (Robert Borger) 10. 01:51 PM - Re: F25 Rear Bulkhead (alan_hunter1664) 11. 01:59 PM - Re: static ports (Sky Mail) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:05 AM PST US From: "Richard Collings" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Min turns on rod ends, and a stick height dimension request Tony I have the following measurements for you, Floor to top of stick 530mm, top of thigh support to top of stick 305mm, stick fully back top of stick to top of back rest 580mm and stick fully back to the point where the back rest starts to angle back 480mm. I am sorry I forgot to get the max forward position that can follow if you need it. I am 5ft 10in and have found it best to sit as high as possible - landing are less exciting. I have also noted that my thighs get in the way of full aileron travel either way, but rate of turn is so good that it has not caused a problem. Hope this helps Regards Richard -----Original Message----- From: Tony Renshaw Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 4:23 AM Subject: Europa-List: Min turns on rod ends, and a stick height dimension request Gidday, I am setting up my tailplanes and specifically my elevator throw. I seem to have the displacement correct and note that my cranked sticks result in the grips I have, which unfortunately project forward, conflict with my panel, which is also on 20 mm rubber mounts. So, I have decided I need to get the stick displacement range further aft, and I can do this by extending the elevator pushrod length at the base of the stick. I know it is ideal to make control rod adjustments equal at each end, but in reality there doesnt seem to me to be too much logic in that if there is an adequate number of threads in the rod end. My rod ends in question are 3/8, and I recalled that I needed a minimum of 4 1/2 turns. Enquiring of my local Europa guru, he said that you need the diameter of the rod end in depth of thread, which I have noted to be 6 turns. It appears I dont need quite that minimum, but the less I leave in the rod end, the further aft I get the range of the elevator. I h! ave only been in a Europa twice, and whilst my top is not on and my doors not on, I am relying a little on those experiences to realise my 59 (175 cm) size really needs to be jacked up on about 6 from the floor, not the 4 cushion I originally imagined. The reason I mention this is because the height of the base of my handgrip is advice I would like to seek. Of someone with similar stature, or even others who could help out with advice, Id love to know the height from the top of your thigh support to the base of your handgrip, or the base of your hand if you dont have a grip with a small shelf toe to it? I still think I need to cut down my sticks more, and whilst I appreciate I should do something else at this stage and leave it until my seats go in, which would mean when my top was on and doors to establish ideal cushion height, Id like to get the sticks close at this point. I have already noticed that whilst this adjustment no longer conflicts with my panel (only ! just though), full left aileron conflicts with my eyebrow exte! nsion of the glare shield over the primary panel, so I might have to shape the bottom corner of it to accommodate. Irrespective, Ive realised the need to twist the stick to avoid sidewall conflict, but it also seems to impact then on your full right stick movement in terms of the space available with a thigh in the way. Can see it as being a bit of a juggle to get right. Ironically shortening the stick a little more allows less twist required of the stick at full left turn input, giving more thigh room on the right hand side when the stick is commanded for a right turn. This brings me back to the original question, if anyone can offer up advice of their relaxed hand position on the stick, the height from the base of their hand to the top of the thigh support with the controls neutral. Much appreciated. Regards Tony Renshaw Sydney Aussie (home from a great holiday in France) P.S. I have the original classic cockpit module which may offer less room for your thighs at full aileron throw. Im not sure. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:40:01 AM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: Min turns on rod ends, and a stick height dimension request Hi Richard, Out of the blue, thank you. I noticed when I went flying with Remi that I needed to sit up high. I approximated I needed 4" of height, and therefore more like 6" cushions,,at 5'9". I have made up a timber platform at this height, but because I haven't got my doors on or top on, permanently as yet, I can't see if my head is going to hit. We'll,see.,I did notice the thigh clearance issues, but I reckon if you wriggle you might be able to get more, if push came to shove. Thanks for the dims. I am in LA, but when I get home I will,run a tape and see what I come up,with. I realise though that the longer the stick, or the shorter probably doesn't make too much difference because it is the physical limitation of the side of the fuselage that stops stick displacement. You just have to make sure that your grip doesn't stop you getting full travel. Thanks again for the help. Regards Tony R Sent from my iPad > On 4 Nov 2014, at 11:03 am, Richard Collings wrote: > > > Tony > I have the following measurements for you, Floor to top of stick 530mm, top of thigh support to top of stick 305mm, stick fully back top of stick to top of back rest 580mm and stick fully back to the point where the back rest starts to angle back 480mm. I am sorry I forgot to get the max forward position that can follow if you need it. > I am 5ft 10in and have found it best to sit as high as possible - landing are less exciting. I have also noted that my thighs get in the way of full aileron travel either way, but rate of turn is so good that it has not caused a problem. > Hope this helps > Regards > Richard > > -----Original Message----- From: Tony Renshaw > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 4:23 AM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Min turns on rod ends, and a stick height dimension request > > > Gidday, > I am setting up my tailplanes and specifically my elevator throw. I seem to have the displacement correct and note that my cranked sticks result in the grips I have, which unfortunately project forward, conflict with my panel, which is also on 20 mm rubber mounts. So, I have decided I need to get the stick displacement range further aft, and I can do this by extending the elevator pushrod length at the base of the stick. I know it is ideal to make control rod adjustments equal at each end, but in reality there doesnt seem to me to be too much logic in that if there is an adequate number of threads in the rod end. My rod ends in question are 3/8, and I recalled that I needed a minimum of 4 1/2 turns. Enquiring of my local Europa guru, he said that you need the diameter of the rod end in depth of thread, which I have noted to be 6 turns. It appears I dont need quite that minimum, but the less I leave in the rod end, the further aft I get the range of the elevator. I h! > ave only been in a Europa twice, and whilst my top is not on and my doors not on, I am relying a little on those experiences to realise my 59 (175 cm) size really needs to be jacked up on about 6 from the floor, not the 4 cushion I originally imagined. The reason I mention this is because the height of the base of my handgrip is advice I would like to seek. Of someone with similar stature, or even others who could help out with advice, Id love to know the height from the top of your thigh support to the base of your handgrip, or the base of your hand if you dont have a grip with a small shelf toe to it? I still think I need to cut down my sticks more, and whilst I appreciate I should do something else at this stage and leave it until my seats go in, which would mean when my top was on and doors to establish ideal cushion height, Id like to get the sticks close at this point. I have already noticed that whilst this adjustment no longer conflicts with my panel (only ! > just though), full left aileron conflicts with my eyebrow exte! > nsion of > the glare shield over the primary panel, so I might have to shape the bottom corner of it to accommodate. Irrespective, Ive realised the need to twist the stick to avoid sidewall conflict, but it also seems to impact then on your full right stick movement in terms of the space available with a thigh in the way. Can see it as being a bit of a juggle to get right. Ironically shortening the stick a little more allows less twist required of the stick at full left turn input, giving more thigh room on the right hand side when the stick is commanded for a right turn. This brings me back to the original question, if anyone can offer up advice of their relaxed hand position on the stick, the height from the base of their hand to the top of the thigh support with the controls neutral. Much appreciated. > Regards > Tony Renshaw > Sydney Aussie (home from a great holiday in France) > > P.S. I have the original classic cockpit module which may offer less room for your thighs at full aileron throw. Im not sure. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:45:06 AM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Resin Systems Giddy, I have been using West Systems for non structural areas of late, and had the opportunity to speak to a Long Eze expert at Chino, LA. He told me that he wouldn't use West Systems for structure, and I recall that is reflected in the ACS manual. Other than SP Systems which is not available in Australia, to,clarify the original,SP20 is superseded and even though it has a picture of a Europa on their literature, it isn't approved (go figure), I would like a reminder on other approved Epoxies please.,this fellow swore by EZ Epoxy. Any advice much appreciated. The West Systems has a greater viscosity, a shorter pot life, and doesn't wet out as much. Regards Tony Renshaw Lost Aussie. Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:55 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Ampreg 22, not approved by Europa?? Ironic, Unless things have changed, to my knowledge it is still not approved by Euro pa. TR Sent from my iPad
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:32:08 PM PST US From: "Paul & Vanessa Munford" Subject: Europa-List: static ports Hi All, Just getting the pitot system installed & am wondering where the best place for the 2 static ports should be? Ive already installed the Dynon AOA/PITOT probe in the wing thus leaving the static ports to be mounted. I'd like them near the front to keep the tubing runs short if poss. Any ideas please? Paul Munford. Kit 625 trigear. THANKYOU ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:09 PM PST US From: "Richard Collings" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Resin Systems Hi Tony That was quick let me know if you want any other dimensions. The Europa build in England is only approved using SP Gurit Ampreg 21 which replaced Ampreg 20 in 2010. According to an Ampreg 21 leaflet I have on file, they have an office supplier at Unit 1A/81 Bassett Street, Mona Vale, 2103 NSW,Australia. Tel+61 [0] 2 9979 7248 Email sales-au@gurit.com I would be very sure before using anything other than an approved system. By the way Ampreg 21 is horrible stuff nowhere near as easy to use as 20, but was introduced to satisfy Health & Safety ! Regards Richard -----Original Message----- From: Tony Renshaw Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2014 7:44 PM Subject: Europa-List: Resin Systems Giddy, I have been using West Systems for non structural areas of late, and had the opportunity to speak to a Long Eze expert at Chino, LA. He told me that he wouldn't use West Systems for structure, and I recall that is reflected in the ACS manual. Other than SP Systems which is not available in Australia, to,clarify the original,SP20 is superseded and even though it has a picture of a Europa on their literature, it isn't approved (go figure), I would like a reminder on other approved Epoxies please.,this fellow swore by EZ Epoxy. Any advice much appreciated. The West Systems has a greater viscosity, a shorter pot life, and doesn't wet out as much. Regards Tony Renshaw Lost Aussie. Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:22 PM PST US From: "Richard Collings" Subject: Re: Europa-List: static ports Hi Paul Try and have a word with Andy Draper at the LAA office Richard From: Paul & Vanessa Munford Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2014 8:31 PM Subject: Europa-List: static ports Hi All, Just getting the pitot system installed & am wondering where the best place for the 2 static ports should be? Ive already installed the Dynon AOA/PITOT probe in the wing thus leaving the static ports to be mounted. I'd like them near the front to keep the tubing runs short if poss. Any ideas please? Paul Munford. Kit 625 trigear. THANKYOU ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:01:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Resin Systems From: Pete Here in Canada/USA we use aeropoxy as supplied by the Europa dealer at the time. Fwiw, Cheers, Pete a239 > On Nov 4, 2014, at 3:46 PM, "Richard Collings" wrote: > > > Hi Tony > That was quick let me know if you want any other dimensions. > The Europa build in England is only approved using SP Gurit Ampreg 21 which replaced Ampreg 20 in 2010. > According to an Ampreg 21 leaflet I have on file, they have an office supplier at Unit 1A/81 Bassett Street, Mona Vale, 2103 NSW,Australia. Tel+61 [0] 2 9979 7248 Email sales-au@gurit.com > I would be very sure before using anything other than an approved system. > By the way Ampreg 21 is horrible stuff nowhere near as easy to use as 20, but was introduced to satisfy Health & Safety ! > Regards > Richard > -----Original Message----- From: Tony Renshaw > Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2014 7:44 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Resin Systems > > > Giddy, > I have been using West Systems for non structural areas of late, and had the opportunity to speak to a Long Eze expert at Chino, LA. He told me that he wouldn't use West Systems for structure, and I recall that is reflected in the ACS manual. Other than SP Systems which is not available in Australia, to,clarify the original,SP20 is superseded and even though it has a picture of a Europa on their literature, it isn't approved (go figure), I would like a reminder on other approved Epoxies please.,this fellow swore by EZ Epoxy. Any advice much appreciated. The West Systems has a greater viscosity, a shorter pot life, and doesn't wet out as much. > Regards > Tony Renshaw > Lost Aussie. > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:48:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Resin Systems From: Robert Borger Tony, Here in N.America we use Aeropoxy: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/aeropoxy.php This is what was approved for us and is supplied with the kit by the N.America distributor. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Nov 4, 2014, at 1:44 PM, Tony Renshaw wrote: Giddy, I have been using West Systems for non structural areas of late, and had the opportunity to speak to a Long Eze expert at Chino, LA. He told me that he wouldn't use West Systems for structure, and I recall that is reflected in the ACS manual. Other than SP Systems which is not available in Australia, to,clarify the original,SP20 is superseded and even though it has a picture of a Europa on their literature, it isn't approved (go figure), I would like a reminder on other approved Epoxies please.,this fellow swore by EZ Epoxy. Any advice much appreciated. The West Systems has a greater viscosity, a shorter pot life, and doesn't wet out as much. Regards Tony Renshaw Lost Aussie. Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:59 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: F25 Rear Bulkhead From: "alan_hunter1664" Pat, sent you a PM Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432852#432852 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: static ports From: Sky Mail Paul I'd be interested in what Andy advises, please, as I plan to use the same Dy non probe and until now I was assuming I would have to install it as a suppl ementary probe to the Europa supplied pitot-static unit. Richard Sent from my iPad > On 4 Nov 2014, at 20:51, Richard Collings wrote: > > Hi Paul > Try and have a word with Andy Draper at the LAA office > Richard > > From: Paul & Vanessa Munford > Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2014 8:31 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: static ports > > Hi All, Just getting the pitot system installed & am wondering where the b est place for the 2 static ports should be? Ive already installed the Dynon A OA/PITOT probe in the wing thus leaving the static ports to be mounted. I'd l ike them near the front to keep the tubing runs short if poss. Any ideas ple ase? Paul Munford. Kit 625 trigear. 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