---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/10/14: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:34 AM - A List Contribution - It's Your Personal Squelch Button... (Matt Dralle) 1. 12:39 AM - Re: 57 minuts on 13 ltrs on a 914 (tennant) 2. 02:29 AM - Re: 57 minuts on 13 ltrs on a 914 (Alan Carter) 3. 07:16 AM - Carbon Fibre (Richard Iddon) 4. 07:41 AM - Re: Carbon Fibre (David Watts) 5. 09:41 AM - Acceptable runway length? (Rick Moss) 6. 10:04 AM - Re: Acceptable runway length? (David Watts) 7. 10:31 AM - Re: Acceptable runway length? (Pete Lawless) 8. 10:31 AM - Re: Carbon Fibre (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk) 9. 10:43 AM - Re: Carbon Fibre (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 10. 01:22 PM - Re: Acceptable runway length? (Rick Moss) 11. 01:42 PM - Re: Re: Acceptable runway length? (David Watts) 12. 02:12 PM - Re: Acceptable runway length? (pmorgans) 13. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: Acceptable runway length? (Pete Lawless) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:53 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: A List Contribution - It's Your Personal Squelch Button... There is an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, their email address is automatically added to this year's Contributor List and they instantly cease to receive further Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple! :-) I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List sites. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages, when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum. The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.] ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:44 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: 57 minuts on 13 ltrs on a 914 From: "tennant" Alan, That sounds about right for the Europa. I don't usually fly so slowly but I checked yesterday and got the following: MP 25,5 3000 ft 14 L / hr 115 Kt Mono The fuel flow takes some time to calibrate, it took me about 3 years to get it spot on. Barry -------- Barry Tennant D-EHBT At EDLM - Germany Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433290#433290 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:29:17 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: 57 minuts on 13 ltrs on a 914 From: "Alan Carter" Hi Barry, That's pretty good. Mono,s are quit fast. My figures are for a Tri Gear, with the speed kit on, and using MTOW 1370 Lbs so again a good burn It will do 120 but 110 to 115 feels right. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433314#433314 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:06 AM PST US From: Richard Iddon Subject: Europa-List: Carbon Fibre Not quite a Europa question but I note that several contributors have made parts for the Europa with carbon Fibre. I need to make a repair to a part for a boat out of carbon fibre (sorry, not the plane). Is it the same as working with epoxy / glassfibre? Can I use the same resin or are there special considerations for working with carbon? Richard Iddon. G-RIXS ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Carbon Fibre From: David Watts Richard You can use the same resin for carbon fibre work. The major considerations come with sanding etc. make sure you wear a very good mask and watch out for getting "carbon splinters" in your skin. I am sure others would have more advice. Dave Watts > On 10 Nov 2014, at 15:15, Richard Iddon wrote: > > > Not quite a Europa question but I note that several contributors have made parts for the Europa with carbon Fibre. I need to make a repair to a part for a boat out of carbon fibre (sorry, not the plane). Is it the same as working with epoxy / glassfibre? Can I use the same resin or are there special considerations for working with carbon? > > Richard Iddon. > > G-RIXS > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:43 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Acceptable runway length? From: "Rick Moss" Hi all, I'm new to the Europa, and trying to get to grips with what constitutes an acceptable runway length, having come to the conclusion that the quoted 600' is somewhat optimistic! (although perhaps achievable on tarmac with a very healthy pull at Vs+1kt?). I'm flying from an undulating 500m grass strip at 1000'. Every flight thus far has been made with a 90 crosswind. At one end of my strip is a 40' obstacle. My Europa is an XS with a 912S and Airmaster CS prop. The strip drains well, but as winter approaches it will inevitably get soft. In terms of landing, I have never used more than around 300m when approaching at 63kts. On takeoff, it seems to use 300m+ to lift off and then accelerate in ground effect to climb away (at a sprightly 1200 fpm at 75kts). What sort of runway legth do you guys look for? What is your personal minima? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433341#433341 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Acceptable runway length? From: David Watts Hi Rick, I operate, along with 3 other Europa's from a UK grass aerodrome which certainly gets wet in the winter, in fact regularly going under 12" of water. 2 of the Europa's are Tri-gear, the others mono and all except one use a 912S with CS/variable props. We have one runway of 750 Mtrs and another of 470 Mtrs with trees on each end. We regularly use both runways all year. On the longer runway we have one taxiway from the hangars which is 220 Mtrs from the end of the runway and when using that runway all are always airborne before the taxiway (so 200 Mtrs or less ground roll). Equally, when landing, if we get it right (NOT ALWAYS) some of us can turn off at the taxiway (so again less than 200mtrs). Dave Watts G-BXDY > On 10 Nov 2014, at 17:41, Rick Moss wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I'm new to the Europa, and trying to get to grips with what constitutes an acceptable runway length, having come to the conclusion that the quoted 600' is somewhat optimistic! (although perhaps achievable on tarmac with a very healthy pull at Vs+1kt?). > > I'm flying from an undulating 500m grass strip at 1000'. Every flight thus far has been made with a 90 crosswind. At one end of my strip is a 40' obstacle. > > My Europa is an XS with a 912S and Airmaster CS prop. The strip drains well, but as winter approaches it will inevitably get soft. > > In terms of landing, I have never used more than around 300m when approaching at 63kts. On takeoff, it seems to use 300m+ to lift off and then accelerate in ground effect to climb away (at a sprightly 1200 fpm at 75kts). > > What sort of runway legth do you guys look for? What is your personal minima? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433341#433341 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:31:04 AM PST US From: Pete Lawless Subject: Re: Europa-List: Acceptable runway length? Hi Rick What sort of rpm are you getting on the roll? 300 m+ sounds a bit long to me for a 912s. I only get near that on a hot day at max weight with a 912ul (80hp). Pete G-RMAC #109 On 10/11/14 17:41, Rick Moss wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'm new to the Europa, and trying to get to grips with what constitutes an acceptable runway length, having come to the conclusion that the quoted 600' is somewhat optimistic! (although perhaps achievable on tarmac with a very healthy pull at Vs+1kt?). > > I'm flying from an undulating 500m grass strip at 1000'. Every flight thus far has been made with a 90 crosswind. At one end of my strip is a 40' obstacle. > > My Europa is an XS with a 912S and Airmaster CS prop. The strip drains well, but as winter approaches it will inevitably get soft. > > In terms of landing, I have never used more than around 300m when approaching at 63kts. On takeoff, it seems to use 300m+ to lift off and then accelerate in ground effect to climb away (at a sprightly 1200 fpm at 75kts). > > What sort of runway legth do you guys look for? What is your personal minima? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433341#433341 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:31:37 AM PST US From: nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk Subject: Re: Europa-List: Carbon Fibre Richard, I have built polyester canoes and have played around with carbon fibre - so have experience of both systems. It's not clear from your mail whether your boat is constructed out of carbon and you need to repair it, or if you just fancy repairing a glass fibre boat using carbon. The actual techniques are broadly the same but I would always recommend repairing like with like. If your boat is made out of chopped strand mat (CSM) and polyester resign, then use the same to repair it. There is a lot of miss-understanding concerning carbon and if used in the wrong place, can actually result in a weaker repair. Because carbon is so stiff, it can take all of the load in a structure, meaning the weaker material (glass) takes less; the then overloaded carbon simply fractures. Imagine bonding a piece of glass to a hose pipe - then flexing it. Nigel Quoting Richard Iddon : > > Not quite a Europa question but I note that several contributors > have made parts for the Europa with carbon Fibre. I need to make a > repair to a part for a boat out of carbon fibre (sorry, not the > plane). Is it the same as working with epoxy / glassfibre? Can I use > the same resin or are there special considerations for working with > carbon? > > Richard Iddon. > > G-RIXS > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:43:48 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Carbon Fibre Absolutely right Nigel, and better than I could have put it.=0AGraham=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.c o.uk" =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent : Monday, 10 November 2014, 18:31=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Carbon Fibre =0ARichard, I have built polyester canoes and have played around with carbo n fibre - so have experience of both systems. It's not clear from your mail whether your boat is constructed out of carbon and you need to repair it, or if you just fancy repairing a glass fibre boat using carbon.=0AThe actua l techniques are broadly the same but I would always recommend repairing li ke with like. If your boat is made out of chopped strand mat (CSM) and poly ester resign, then use the same to repair it.=0AThere is a lot of miss-unde rstanding concerning carbon and if used in the wrong place, can actually re sult in a weaker repair. Because carbon is so stiff, it can take all of the load in a structure, meaning the weaker material (glass) takes less; the t hen overloaded carbon simply fractures. Imagine bonding a piece of glass to a hose pipe - then flexing it.=0A=0ANigel=0A=0AQuoting Richard Iddon =0A> =0A> Not quite a Europa question but I note that several c ontributors have made parts for the Europa with carbon Fibre.- I need to make a repair to a part for a boat out of carbon fibre (sorry, not the plan e). Is it the same as working with epoxy / glassfibre? Can I use the same r esin or are there special considerations for working with carbon?=0A> =0A> =========================0A === ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:49 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Acceptable runway length? From: "Rick Moss" Hi Pete: I'm running the Constant Speed Unit set to 5700rpm on takeoff, and holding a little aft pressure on the stick; it lifts off around 50-55kts ias with half flap. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433353#433353 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Acceptable runway length? From: David Watts Rick, I've only got 40 hours on the Tri-gear Europa (1,800 on the Mono-wheel) but it sounds to me like you need to hold a bit more aft pressure on the stick. I have found that the Tri-gear leaves the ground at 45 or even as low as 40, even on grass, depending on how close cut it is. You really need to make sure the nose wheel is off the ground as much as possible as it causes tremendous drag when on grass, to the extent that if the grass is long enough and wet enough you won't even get off. Dave Watts G-BXDY > On 10 Nov 2014, at 21:22, Rick Moss wrote: > > > Hi Pete: > > I'm running the Constant Speed Unit set to 5700rpm on takeoff, and holding a little aft pressure on the stick; it lifts off around 50-55kts ias with half flap. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433353#433353 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:24 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Acceptable runway length? From: "pmorgans" Hi Everybody, I'm relatively low hours (30) on an XS Trigear with 912s and Airmaster CS. Have stuck with the 17.5 degree book setting so far; which seems 'draggy', even solo on tarmac. Does anyone have optimum settings for different loadings? Thanks Peter Morgans -------- The Titanic was built by professionals; the Ark by an amateur Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433355#433355 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:46 PM PST US From: Pete Lawless Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Acceptable runway length? Hi Rick Sorry I missed the tri gear bit! Mine is mono your small wheels will be a bit more draggy. Revs sound ok. Mine is variable pitch but no CSU, so set for 5,600 static which gives me about 5,700 on the roll and 5,800 by about 70 kts. Regards Pete On 10/11/14 21:22, Rick Moss wrote: > > Hi Pete: > > I'm running the Constant Speed Unit set to 5700rpm on takeoff, and holding a little aft pressure on the stick; it lifts off around 50-55kts ias with half flap. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433353#433353 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.