Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:20 AM - Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published in December! (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:13 AM - Re: 57 minuts on 13 ltrs on a 914 (Roland)
2. 05:00 AM - Re: Acceptable runway length? (rampil)
3. 05:18 AM - Re: Electrical bonding (rampil)
4. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: Electrical bonding (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
5. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: Electrical bonding (PETER MORGANS)
6. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Electrical bonding (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
7. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: Electrical bonding (Pete Lawless)
8. 09:51 AM - Re: Re: Electrical bonding (Ivan Shaw)
9. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Electrical bonding (Pete Lawless)
10. 10:46 AM - Re: Re: Electrical bonding (Pete Lawless)
11. 11:40 AM - Re: classic tail wheel (spcialeffects)
12. 12:26 PM - Re: Re: Electrical bonding (Tony Renshaw)
13. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: Electrical bonding (Pete Lawless)
14. 02:20 PM - Re: Acceptable runway length? (Rick Moss)
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Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published |
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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Subject: | Re: 57 minuts on 13 ltrs on a 914 |
Hi Alan,
as you know, I too have a Trigear with 914.
In the fast cruise at 125 KIAS MTOM (which is 656 kg for my dutch registered Europa)
low altitude I burn between 19 and 20 l/h.
So 14 l/h at 110/115 kts is quite a good value :-)
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS Trigear 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433498#433498
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Subject: | Re: Acceptable runway length? |
I have a very similar setup
912s trigger with airmaster/warpdrive. My field is 900' AGL and is fairly
rough grass, 2400' with obstacles at the ends. The key ingredient you
left out was takeoff weight. Mine is 936 lbs empty which is middling light for
american Trigears. UK Europas are almost always lighter.
You should raise the nose about 45 its, then let it fly off. I use 65 kts as
my target speed on final, then 50-55 its over the "fence."
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433499#433499
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Subject: | Re: Electrical bonding |
Bonding together small bits of metal inside a sea of plastic insulator will
accomplish nothing except add weight to your airframe unless you
have an array of static discharge wicks. No Europas I am aware off have
them. The best thing for a builder to do regarding lightning strikes
is to make sure there are no voids in the layups where water can infiltrate.
The water will turn to steam and explode. Aside from that, Do not
fly near Cu. If Cu are unavoidable, just remember: Flying IS avoidable.
In this I respectfully disagree with David. As a former electrical engineer, I
would also have to say, I can not see any benefit to bonding wingtip to
wingtip, etc. The goal can not be to conduct a strike - you can not! Rather,
the goal of bonding to discharge wicks is to bleed off areas of air friction
static charge back to the atmosphere, thus avoiding being an attractive
nuisance for lightning.
There is no such this as "earth" on a composite airplane. The only ground
is the negative battery terminal. That's it.
It's not a house! There's no neutral (white wire) and earth ground (green
wire) dichotomy. Just make all grounds short, fat and tight.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433500#433500
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Subject: | Re: Electrical bonding |
Ira, You may well be right and I am quite prepared to accept your
superior electrical training, but talking to British Aerospce engineers
involved in lightning protection for the Airbus series did not produce
clear answers and my memory of the Europa lightning strike account is
that there were burn marks at each wing tip and the strike had travelled
across the plane. That being the case, it seems to me to be a better
idea to have a path other than the aileron controls or wing light wiring
to conduct it. Having been in a tram struck by lightning in my youth and
lost a neighbour to a lightning strike, I am not at all keen to go
anywhere near a cu nim, but a large proportion of those flying 'VMC'
from UK to Australia have been unintentionally caught in electrical
storms. I did not imagine I could make my plane immune to damage but
just to lessen the likelihood of control run welding or instrument burn
out.
Regards, David G-XSDJ
On 2014-11-12 13:17, rampil wrote:
>
> Bonding together small bits of metal inside a sea of plastic insulator will
> accomplish nothing except add weight to your airframe unless you
> have an array of static discharge wicks. No Europas I am aware off have
> them. The best thing for a builder to do regarding lightning strikes
> is to make sure there are no voids in the layups where water can infiltrate.
> The water will turn to steam and explode. Aside from that, Do not
> fly near Cu. If Cu are unavoidable, just remember: Flying IS avoidable.
> In this I respectfully disagree with David. As a former electrical engineer,
I would also have to say, I can not see any benefit to bonding wingtip to
> wingtip, etc. The goal can not be to conduct a strike - you can not! Rather,
> the goal of bonding to discharge wicks is to bleed off areas of air friction
> static charge back to the atmosphere, thus avoiding being an attractive
> nuisance for lightning.
>
> There is no such this as "earth" on a composite airplane. The only ground
> is the negative battery terminal. That's it.
>
> It's not a house! There's no neutral (white wire) and earth ground (green
> wire) dichotomy. Just make all grounds short, fat and tight.
>
> --------
> Ira N224XS
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433500#433500 [1]
>
Links:
------
[1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433500#433500
[2] http://www.aeroelectric.com
[3] http://www.buildersbooks.com
[4] http://www.homebuilthelp.com
[5] http://www.mypilotstore.com
[6] http://www.mrrace.com
[7] http://www.matronics.com/contribution
[8] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
[9] http://forums.matronics.com
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Electrical bonding |
Hi-David,=0AApologies for diving in on this topic.=0AYou may be intereste
d to read AAIB Bulletin 12/99 (attached pdf) regarding the disintegration o
f Schleicher ASK21 over Dunstable. Back in my gliding days in the late 1960
's it was mandatory for all gliders which held a B.G.A cloud flying categor
y to have electrical bonding. I think the answer is to stay away from large
Cu unless you have a parachute.=0AThe following link, ref. this accident,
also shows photographs of damage:- -www.pas.rochester.edu/~cline/.../ASK%
20accident%20report.htm=0AIt's sobering to look at the damage to fittings.
=0A=0ARegards=0APeter Morgans - - G-CFKZ - -Trigear XS=0A=0A=0A____
____________________________=0A From: "davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk" <davidjoy
ce@doctors.org.uk>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, 12 N
ovember 2014, 14:00=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Electrical bonding=0A
=0A=0A=0A-=0AIra, You may well be right and I am quite prepared to accept
your superior electrical training, but talking to British Aerospce enginee
rs involved in lightning protection for the Airbus series did not produce c
lear answers and my memory of the Europa lightning strike account is that t
here were burn marks at each wing tip and the strike had travelled across t
he plane. That being the case, it seems to me to be a better idea to have a
path other than the aileron controls or wing light wiring to conduct it. H
aving been in a tram struck by lightning in my youth and lost a neighbour t
o a lightning strike, I am not at all keen to go anywhere near a cu nim, bu
t a large proportion of those flying 'VMC' from UK to Australia have been u
nintentionally caught in electrical storms. I did not imagine I could make
my plane immune to damage but just to lessen the likelihood of control run
welding or instrument burn out.=0ARegards, David G-XSDJ=0A-=0AOn 2014-11-
rampil@gmail.com> Bonding together small bits of metal inside a sea of plas
tic insulator will=0Aaccomplish nothing except add weight to your airframe
unless you =0Ahave an array of static discharge wicks. No Europas I am awar
e off have=0Athem. The best thing for a builder to do regarding lightning
strikes=0Ais to make sure there are no voids in the layups where water can
infiltrate.=0AThe water will turn to steam and explode. Aside from that, Do
not=0Afly near Cu. If Cu are unavoidable, just remember: Flying IS avoida
ble.=0AIn this I respectfully disagree with David. As a former electrical
engineer, I would also have to say, I can not see any benefit to bonding wi
ngtip to =0Awingtip, etc. The goal can not be to conduct a strike - you ca
n not! Rather, =0Athe goal of bonding to discharge wicks is to bleed off ar
eas of air friction =0Astatic charge back to the atmosphere, thus avoiding
being an attractive =0Anuisance for lightning. There is no such this as "ea
rth" on a composite airplane. The only ground=0Ais the negative battery te
rminal. That's it. It's not a house! There's no neutral (white wire) and e
arth ground (green=0Awire) dichotomy. Just make all grounds short, fat and
tight. --------=0AIra N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.ma
tronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433500#433500 ectric.com=0A">www.buildersbook
s.com=0Abuilthelp.com=0Alotstore.com=0Am=0A.matronics.com/contribution=0Att
========
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Electrical bonding |
Peter, Thanks - absolutely no apologies needed - it is very pertinent! I
had pored over this in great detail when preparing my Oz trip! Both in
this and in the other GRP glider strike quoted the lightning ran from
wing tip to wing tip, with arcing causing enough heating/shock wave to
break open or delaminate the wing. It was very much because of this
report that I hoped to provide a more attractive (both to me and the
lightning) path running essentially outside the wing. Regards, David
On 2014-11-12 16:07, PETER MORGANS wrote:
> Hi David,
> Apologies for diving in on this topic.
> You may be interested to read AAIB Bulletin 12/99 (attached pdf) regarding the
disintegration of Schleicher ASK21 over Dunstable. Back in my gliding days in
the late 1960's it was mandatory for all gliders which held a B.G.A cloud flying
category to have electrical bonding. I think the answer is to stay away from
large Cu unless you have a parachute.
> The following link, ref. this accident, also shows photographs of damage:- www.pas.rochester.edu/~cline/.../ASK%20accident%20report.htm
> It's sobering to look at the damage to fittings.
> Regards
> Peter Morgans G-CFKZ Trigear XS
>
> -------------------------
> FROM: "davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
> TO: europa-list@matronics.com
> SENT: Wednesday, 12 November 2014, 14:00
> SUBJECT: Re: Europa-List: Re: Electrical bonding
>
> Ira, You may well be right and I am quite prepared to accept your superior electrical
training, but talking to British Aerospce engineers involved in lightning
protection for the Airbus series did not produce clear answers and my memory
of the Europa lightning strike account is that there were burn marks at each
wing tip and the strike had travelled across the plane. That being the case,
it seems to me to be a better idea to have a path other than the aileron controls
or wing light wiring to conduct it. Having been in a tram struck by lightning
in my youth and lost a neighbour to a lightning strike, I am not at all
keen to go anywhere near a cu nim, but a large proportion of those flying 'VMC'
from UK to Australia have been unintentionally caught in electrical storms.
I did not imagine I could make my plane immune to damage but just to lessen the
likelihood of control run welding or instrument burn out.
> Regards, David G-XSDJ
>
> On 2014-11-12 13:17, rampil wrote:
>
>>
>> Bonding together small bits of metal inside a sea of plastic insulator will
>> accomplish nothing except add weight to your airframe unless you
>> have an array of static discharge wicks. No Europas I am aware off have
>> them. The best thing for a builder to do regarding lightning strikes
>> is to make sure there are no voids in the layups where water can infiltrate.
>> The water will turn to steam and explode. Aside from that, Do not
>> fly near Cu. If Cu are unavoidable, just remember: Flying IS avoidable.
>> In this I respectfully disagree with David. As a former electrical engineer,
I would also have to say, I can not see any benefit to bonding wingtip to
>> wingtip, etc. The goal can not be to conduct a strike - you can not! Rather,
>> the goal of bonding to discharge wicks is to bleed off areas of air friction
>> static charge back to the atmosphere, thus avoiding being an attractive
>> nuisance for lightning.
>>
>> There is no such this as "earth" on a composite airplane. The only ground
>> is the negative battery terminal. That's it.
>>
>> It's not a house! There's no neutral (white wire) and earth ground (green
>> wire) dichotomy. Just make all grounds short, fat and tight.
>>
>> --------
>> Ira N224XS
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433500#433500 [1]
>>
>> ectric.com
>> ">www.buildersbooks.com
>> builthelp.com
>> lotstore.com
>> m
>> .matronics.com/contribution
>> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>> ics.com
>
> www.aeroearget="_blank" href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.c* My Pilot Store www.mrr --> [2]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [3]=========
Links:
------
[1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433500#433500
[2] http://www.mrel
[3] http://www.matronics.gt;<arel
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Electrical bonding |
Hi Guys
I sobering pic of lightning damage to a fully bonded all metal aeroplane
- I suspect in a Europa it would ruin your whole day!
Plus an interesting Boeing article.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/2012_q4/4/
Regards
Pete
G-RMAC #109
On 12/11/14 17:24, davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk wrote:
>
> Peter, Thanks - absolutely no apologies needed - it is very
> pertinent! I had pored over this in great detail when preparing my Oz
> trip! Both in this and in the other GRP glider strike quoted the
> lightning ran from wing tip to wing tip, with arcing causing enough
> heating/shock wave to break open or delaminate the wing. It was very
> much because of this report that I hoped to provide a more attractive
> (both to me and the lightning) path running essentially outside the
> wing. Regards, David
>
> On 2014-11-12 16:07, PETER MORGANS wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>> Apologies for diving in on this topic.
>> You may be interested to read AAIB Bulletin 12/99 (attached pdf)
>> regarding the disintegration of Schleicher ASK21 over Dunstable. Back
>> in my gliding days in the late 1960's it was mandatory for all
>> gliders which held a B.G.A cloud flying category to have electrical
>> bonding. I think the answer is to stay away from large Cu unless you
>> have a parachute.
>> The following link, ref. this accident, also shows photographs of
>> damage:- www.pas.rochester.edu/~cline/.../ASK%20accident%20report.htm
>> It's sobering to look at the damage to fittings.
>> Regards
>> Peter Morgans G-CFKZ Trigear XS
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* "davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 November 2014, 14:00
>> *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Re: Electrical bonding
>>
>> Ira, You may well be right and I am quite prepared to accept your
>> superior electrical training, but talking to British Aerospce
>> engineers involved in lightning protection for the Airbus series did
>> not produce clear answers and my memory of the Europa lightning
>> strike account is that there were burn marks at each wing tip and the
>> strike had travelled across the plane. That being the case, it seems
>> to me to be a better idea to have a path other than the aileron
>> controls or wing light wiring to conduct it. Having been in a tram
>> struck by lightning in my youth and lost a neighbour to a lightning
>> strike, I am not at all keen to go anywhere near a cu nim, but a
>> large proportion of those flying 'VMC' from UK to Australia have been
>> unintentionally caught in electrical storms. I did not imagine I
>> could make my plane immune to damage but just to lessen the
>> likelihood of control run welding or instrument burn out.
>> Regards, David G-XSDJ
>> On 2014-11-12 13:17, rampil wrote:
>>
>>
>> Bonding together small bits of metal inside a sea of plastic insulator will
>> accomplish nothing except add weight to your airframe unless you
>> have an array of static discharge wicks. No Europas I am aware off have
>> them. The best thing for a builder to do regarding lightning strikes
>> is to make sure there are no voids in the layups where water can infiltrate.
>> The water will turn to steam and explode. Aside from that, Do not
>> fly near Cu. If Cu are unavoidable, just remember: Flying IS avoidable.
>> In this I respectfully disagree with David. As a former electrical engineer,
I would also have to say, I can not see any benefit to bonding wingtip to
>> wingtip, etc. The goal can not be to conduct a strike - you can not! Rather,
>> the goal of bonding to discharge wicks is to bleed off areas of air friction
>> static charge back to the atmosphere, thus avoiding being an attractive
>> nuisance for lightning.
>>
>> There is no such this as "earth" on a composite airplane. The only ground
>> is the negative battery terminal. That's it.
>>
>> It's not a house! There's no neutral (white wire) and earth ground (green
>> wire) dichotomy. Just make all grounds short, fat and tight.
>>
>> --------
>> Ira N224XS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433500#433500
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ectric.com
>> ">www.buildersbooks.com
>> builthelp.com
>> lotstore.com
>> m
>> .matronics.com/contribution
>> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>> ics.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *www.aeroearget="_blank" href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.c* My Pilot Storewww.mrr --> <http://www.m%20rel=>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List <http://www.matronics.gt;%20%3Ca%20rel=>=========
>>
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Electrical bonding |
I don=99t think that this photo is a lightning strike!!!
Ivan
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
Lawless
Sent: 12 November 2014 17:42
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Electrical bonding
Hi Guys
I sobering pic of lightning damage to a fully bonded all metal aeroplane
- I suspect in a Europa it would ruin your whole day!
Plus an interesting Boeing article.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/2012_q4/4/
Regards
Pete
G-RMAC #109
On 12/11/14 17:24, davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk wrote:
Peter, Thanks - absolutely no apologies needed - it is very pertinent! I
had pored over this in great detail when preparing my Oz trip! Both in
this and in the other GRP glider strike quoted the lightning ran from
wing tip to wing tip, with arcing causing enough heating/shock wave to
break open or delaminate the wing. It was very much because of this
report that I hoped to provide a more attractive (both to me and the
lightning) path running essentially outside the wing. Regards, David
On 2014-11-12 16:07, PETER MORGANS wrote:
Hi David,
Apologies for diving in on this topic.
You may be interested to read AAIB Bulletin 12/99 (attached pdf)
regarding the disintegration of Schleicher ASK21 over Dunstable. Back in
my gliding days in the late 1960's it was mandatory for all gliders
which held a B.G.A cloud flying category to have electrical bonding. I
think the answer is to stay away from large Cu unless you have a
parachute.
The following link, ref. this accident, also shows photographs of
damage:- www.pas.rochester.edu/~cline/.../ASK%20accident%20report.htm
It's sobering to look at the damage to fittings.
Regards
Peter Morgans G-CFKZ Trigear XS
_____
From: <mailto:davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> "davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk"
<mailto:davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 November 2014, 14:00
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Electrical bonding
Ira, You may well be right and I am quite prepared to accept your
superior electrical training, but talking to British Aerospce engineers
involved in lightning protection for the Airbus series did not produce
clear answers and my memory of the Europa lightning strike account is
that there were burn marks at each wing tip and the strike had travelled
across the plane. That being the case, it seems to me to be a better
idea to have a path other than the aileron controls or wing light wiring
to conduct it. Having been in a tram struck by lightning in my youth and
lost a neighbour to a lightning strike, I am not at all keen to go
anywhere near a cu nim, but a large proportion of those flying 'VMC'
from UK to Australia have been unintentionally caught in electrical
storms. I did not imagine I could make my plane immune to damage but
just to lessen the likelihood of control run welding or instrument burn
out.
Regards, David G-XSDJ
On 2014-11-12 13:17, rampil wrote:
Bonding together small bits of metal inside a sea of plastic insulator
will
accomplish nothing except add weight to your airframe unless you
have an array of static discharge wicks. No Europas I am aware off have
them. The best thing for a builder to do regarding lightning strikes
is to make sure there are no voids in the layups where water can
infiltrate.
The water will turn to steam and explode. Aside from that, Do not
fly near Cu. If Cu are unavoidable, just remember: Flying IS avoidable.
In this I respectfully disagree with David. As a former electrical
engineer, I would also have to say, I can not see any benefit to bonding
wingtip to
wingtip, etc. The goal can not be to conduct a strike - you can not!
Rather,
the goal of bonding to discharge wicks is to bleed off areas of air
friction
static charge back to the atmosphere, thus avoiding being an attractive
nuisance for lightning.
There is no such this as "earth" on a composite airplane. The only
ground
is the negative battery terminal. That's it.
It's not a house! There's no neutral (white wire) and earth ground
(green
wire) dichotomy. Just make all grounds short, fat and tight.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433500#433500
ectric.com
">www.buildersbooks.com
builthelp.com
lotstore.com
m
.matronics.com/contribution
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
ics.com
www.aeroearget="_blank" href= <http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
"http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.c* My Pilot Store
www.mrr -- <http://www.m%20rel=> >
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
<http://www.matronics.gt;%20%3Ca%20rel=>
=========
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Electrical bonding |
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Electrical bonding |
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: classic tail wheel |
Had a very nice email, off forum with sound advice. Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433539#433539
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Electrical bonding |
Me too. Never been a depressurisation in an airliner due to a lightning stri
ke that I know anything about, and that hole is half the size of one of the o
utflow valves. The way the paint has been removed, and scorched.....hmmmmm, v
ery sus.
Tony R.
Sent from my iPad
> On 13 Nov 2014, at 4:50 am, Ivan Shaw <ivanshaw@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> I don=99t think that this photo is a lightning strike!!!
> Ivan
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser
ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
> Sent: 12 November 2014 17:42
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Electrical bonding
>
>
> Hi Guys
>
> I sobering pic of lightning damage to a fully bonded all metal aeroplane -
I suspect in a Europa it would ruin your whole day!
>
> Plus an interesting Boeing article. http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aerom
agazine/articles/2012_q4/4/
>
> Regards
>
> Pete
> G-RMAC #109
> <image001.jpg>
>
> On 12/11/14 17:24, davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk wrote:
> Peter, Thanks - absolutely no apologies needed - it is very pertinent! I h
ad pored over this in great detail when preparing my Oz trip! Both in this a
nd in the other GRP glider strike quoted the lightning ran from wing tip to w
ing tip, with arcing causing enough heating/shock wave to break open or dela
minate the wing. It was very much because of this report that I hoped to pro
vide a more attractive (both to me and the lightning) path running essential
ly outside the wing. Regards, David
>
>
>
>
> On 2014-11-12 16:07, PETER MORGANS wrote:
>
> Hi David,
> Apologies for diving in on this topic.
> You may be interested to read AAIB Bulletin 12/99 (attached pdf) regarding
the disintegration of Schleicher ASK21 over Dunstable. Back in my gliding d
ays in the late 1960's it was mandatory for all gliders which held a B.G.A c
loud flying category to have electrical bonding. I think the answer is to st
ay away from large Cu unless you have a parachute.
> The following link, ref. this accident, also shows photographs of damage:-
www.pas.rochester.edu/~cline/.../ASK%20accident%20report.htm
> It's sobering to look at the damage to fittings.
> Regards
> Peter Morgans G-CFKZ Trigear XS
>
> From: "davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 12 November 2014, 14:00
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Electrical bonding
>
>
> Ira, You may well be right and I am quite prepared to accept your superior
electrical training, but talking to British Aerospce engineers involved in l
ightning protection for the Airbus series did not produce clear answers and m
y memory of the Europa lightning strike account is that there were burn mark
s at each wing tip and the strike had travelled across the plane. That being
the case, it seems to me to be a better idea to have a path other than the a
ileron controls or wing light wiring to conduct it. Having been in a tram st
ruck by lightning in my youth and lost a neighbour to a lightning strike, I a
m not at all keen to go anywhere near a cu nim, but a large proportion of th
ose flying 'VMC' from UK to Australia have been unintentionally caught in el
ectrical storms. I did not imagine I could make my plane immune to damage bu
t just to lessen the likelihood of control run welding or instrument burn ou
t.
> Regards, David G-XSDJ
>
> On 2014-11-12 13:17, rampil wrote:
>
> Bonding together small bits of metal inside a sea of plastic insulator wil
l
> accomplish nothing except add weight to your airframe unless you
> have an array of static discharge wicks. No Europas I am aware off have
> them. The best thing for a builder to do regarding lightning strikes
> is to make sure there are no voids in the layups where water can infiltrat
e.
> The water will turn to steam and explode. Aside from that, Do not
> fly near Cu. If Cu are unavoidable, just remember: Flying IS avoidable.
> In this I respectfully disagree with David. As a former electrical engine
er, I would also have to say, I can not see any benefit to bonding wingtip t
o
> wingtip, etc. The goal can not be to conduct a strike - you can not! Rath
er,
> the goal of bonding to discharge wicks is to bleed off areas of air fricti
on
> static charge back to the atmosphere, thus avoiding being an attractive
> nuisance for lightning.
>
> There is no such this as "earth" on a composite airplane. The only ground
> is the negative battery terminal. That's it.
>
> It's not a house! There's no neutral (white wire) and earth ground (green
> wire) dichotomy. Just make all grounds short, fat and tight.
>
> --------
> Ira N224XS
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433500#433500
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ectric.com
> ">www.buildersbooks.com
> builthelp.com
> lotstore.com
> m
> .matronics.com/contribution
> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> ics.com
>
>
>
> www.aeroearget="_blank" href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.build
ersbooks.c* My Pilot Store www.mrr --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Eu
ropa-List=========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Electrical bonding |
Hi All
Tried twice to post a reply but both times I got to see no content after
the mail was delivered.
Ivan is correct not lightning. Pic was originally posted as a strike
when I was sent it a while back. Further checking this evening shows it
to be now described as an electrical fire.
Hope this mail gets through ok.
Regards
Pete
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Acceptable runway length? |
My Europa is pretty light at 874lbs; I'm comfortably within 1300lbs during most
flights.
I'm impressed with your strip at 900' agl....mines firmly at ground level :-)
Thanks for the advice; will go experiment when weather and free time coincide!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433553#433553
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