Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:44 AM - Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... (Matt Dralle)
1. 12:43 AM - Re: Electrical bonding (John Wighton)
2. 12:45 AM - Operating limitations for Jabiru-powered aircraft (Roland)
3. 02:50 AM - Re: Re: Electrical bonding (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
4. 06:54 AM - Re: Re: Electrical bonding (Karl Heindl)
5. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: Electrical bonding (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
6. 10:13 AM - Re: Operating limitations for Jabiru-powered aircraft (duanefamly@aol.com)
7. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: Electrical bonding (Karl Heindl)
8. 07:48 PM - Re: Electrical bonding (Paul McAllister)
9. 07:51 PM - Re: Wing Tip Lenses (Paul McAllister)
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Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great
List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution
too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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Subject: | Re: Electrical bonding |
Ira,
You echo may own opinion on this subject. Fortunately my Europa does not seem
to generate a lot of static (of a kind that can be detected at least). There
is not a lot that could be done if it did collect static whilst airbourne.
I had concerns about static build up and discharge on the ground, particularly
whilst fuelling. I adopt the standard procedure of grounding everything to the
same potential by touch, relying on terra firma to act as a ground. So far
there has never been the hint of a discharge even after a vigorous polishing session.
Being involved in aircraft certification myself l am aware of the often heavy and
costly solutions on larger aircraft. I am a structures signatory on the A350,
this has a high level of composites content and poses new issues and solutions
on many fronts, including bonding and lightning protection.
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433644#433644
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Subject: | Operating limitations for Jabiru-powered aircraft |
Hello,
maybe an interesting subject also for Jabiru-powered Europas....
http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_102279
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS Trigear 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433663#433663
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Subject: | Re: Electrical bonding |
John & Ira , With the greatest of respect for your professional
electrical & aeroengineering backgrounds, I think there are two rather
different issues here:
For certified commercial aircraft lightning protection standards seek
to enclose all passengers and key aircraft components in a Faraday cage
conducting system that will cope with the fairly frequent strikes
affecting commercial operations without any significant damage. To bring
composite aircraft to that standard clearly involves incorporating some
conducting material in the entire surface of the plane and this is a
nonstarter (or at least a non retrospective mod option) for a plane like
ours.
The other issue is the possibility of minimising any damage to a plane
like ours in the event of a lightning strike, ( absolutely going along
with the assertion that it is much preferable to avoid it). There are
three good accounts of fibreglass small aircraft strikes that I have
come across and in every case lightning went from wingtip to wing tip
causing significant damage. These cases are the UK glider, previously
mentioned (www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_500699.pdf
[10] ) , another glider referred to in that AAIB report of the first
glider and the Europa strike suffered by Paul McAlister
(www.sarangan.org/europa_forum/2004-08/msg00094.html [11] ). In each
case the pilot thought he was well clear of threatening clouds it seems.
The gliders had the strike track along the aileron control rods whereas
with the Europa it tracked along the wing tip lights wiring killing a
number of the avionics in passing. I would strongly recommend folk
reading all these reports. Having personally done so I cannot avoid the
conclusions that :
1. Getting struck by lightning is a real possibility for any sensible,
cautious pilot let alone someone contemplating flying through the ITCZ
where rapidly developing massive Cu Nims are endemic
2. Lightning can and will pass from wingtip to wing tip along the most
available conducting track
3. More debateable perhaps but my third conclusion was that there is
much to be said for offering a track that steers clear of vital
structures, and in the light of this I had (in 2006) planned laying
expanded aluminium mesh in the wing close outs connected to aluminium
foil over the wing tip and to the rear lift pins/connecting rod.
Nowadays I would no doubt use Aluminium Microgrid obtainable at modest
cost from Aircraft Spruce. I would not for a moment want to suggest that
this would give commercial plane standard immunity to damage, but that
it would improve the chances of avoiding either the wing exploding or
the loss of avionics or other key electrical systems. I had toyed with
the idea of static diffusers but without a system of conducting static
from other parts of the aircraft I was not convinced this was workable (
and I guess that this non conductance of static is what saves us from
sparking when we touch ground - we are only discharging the immediate
area of contact.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
On 2014-11-14 08:42, John Wighton wrote:
>
> Ira,
>
> You echo may own opinion on this subject. Fortunately my Europa does not seem
to generate a lot of static (of a kind that can be detected at least). There
is not a lot that could be done if it did collect static whilst airbourne.
>
> I had concerns about static build up and discharge on the ground, particularly
whilst fuelling. I adopt the standard procedure of grounding everything to the
same potential by touch, relying on terra firma to act as a ground. So far
there has never been the hint of a discharge even after a vigorous polishing session.
>
> Being involved in aircraft certification myself l am aware of the often heavy
and costly solutions on larger aircraft. I am a structures signatory on the A350,
this has a high level of composites content and poses new issues and solutions
on many fronts, including bonding and lightning protection.
>
> --------
> John Wighton
> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433644#433644 [1]
>
Links:
------
[1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433644#433644
[2] http://www.aeroelectric.com
[3] http://www.buildersbooks.com
[4] http://www.homebuilthelp.com
[5] http://www.mypilotstore.com
[6] http://www.mrrace.com
[7] http://www.matronics.com/contribution
[8] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
[9] http://forums.matronics.com
[10] http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_500699.pdf
[11] http://www.sarangan.org/europa_forum/2004-08/msg00094.html
Message 4
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|
Subject: | Re: Electrical bonding |
David=2C
There are always exceptions. When I was hit by lightning=2C or call it elec
trical discharge=2C in clear skies=2C it entered via the tailpipe and exite
d via the radiators. Apart from some melted metal there was no damage. I al
so have nav lights on the wing tips.It just illustrates that just staying a
way from cu nims is no guarantee for avoiding a strike.Karl
From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Electrical bonding
=0A
=0A
John & Ira =2C With the greatest of respect for your professional electrica
l & aeroengineering backgrounds=2C I think there are two rather different i
ssues here:
=0A
For certified commercial aircraft lightning protection standards se
ek to enclose all passengers and key aircraft components in a Faraday cage
conducting system that will cope with the fairly frequent strikes affecting
commercial operations without any significant damage. To bring composite a
ircraft to that standard clearly involves incorporating some conducting mat
erial in the entire surface of the plane and this is a nonstarter (or at le
ast a non retrospective mod option) for a plane like ours.
=0A
The other issue is the possibility of minimising any damage to a pla
ne like ours in the event of a lightning strike=2C ( absolutely going along
with the assertion that it is much preferable to avoid it). There are thre
e good accounts of fibreglass small aircraft strikes that I have come acros
s and in every case lightning went from wingtip to wing tip causing signifi
cant damage. These cases are the UK glider=2C previously mentioned (www.aai
b.gov.uk/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_500699.pdf ) =2C another glider re
ferred to in that AAIB report of the first glider and the Europa strike suf
fered by Paul McAlister (www.sarangan.org/europa_forum/2004-08/msg00094.htm
l ). In each case the pilot thought he was well clear of threatening clouds
it seems. The gliders had the strike track along the aileron control rods
whereas with the Europa it tracked along the wing tip lights wiring killing
a number of the avionics in passing. I would strongly recommend folk readi
ng all these reports. Having personally done so I cannot avoid the conclusi
ons that :
=0A
1. Getting struck by lightning is a real possibility for any sensible=2C ca
utious pilot let alone someone contemplating flying through the ITCZ where
rapidly developing massive Cu Nims are endemic
=0A
2. Lightning can and will pass from wingtip to wing tip along the most avai
lable conducting track
=0A
3. More debateable perhaps but my third conclusion was that there is much t
o be said for offering a track that steers clear of vital structures=2C and
in the light of this I had (in 2006) planned laying expanded aluminium mes
h in the wing close outs connected to aluminium foil over the wing tip and
to the rear lift pins/connecting rod. Nowadays I would no doubt use Alumini
um Microgrid obtainable at modest cost from Aircraft Spruce. I would not f
or a moment want to suggest that this would give commercial plane standard
immunity to damage=2C but that it would improve the chances of avoiding eit
her the wing exploding or the loss of avionics or other key electrical syst
ems. I had toyed with the idea of static diffusers but without a system of
conducting static from other parts of the aircraft I was not convinced this
was workable ( and I guess that this non conductance of static is what sav
es us from sparking when we touch ground - we are only discharging the imme
diate area of contact.
=0A
Regards=2C David Joyce=2C G-XSDJ
=0A
=0A
=0A
On 2014-11-14 08:42=2C John Wighton wrote:
=0A
=0A
=0A
Ira=2C=0A
=0A
You echo may own opinion on this subject. Fortunately my Europa does not s
eem to generate a lot of static (of a kind that can be detected at least).
There is not a lot that could be done if it did collect static whilst airb
ourne. =0A
=0A
I had concerns about static build up and discharge on the ground=2C particu
larly whilst fuelling. I adopt the standard procedure of grounding everyth
ing to the same potential by touch=2C relying on terra firma to act as a gr
ound. So far there has never been the hint of a discharge even after a vig
orous polishing session.=0A
=0A
Being involved in aircraft certification myself l am aware of the often hea
vy and costly solutions on larger aircraft. I am a structures signatory on
the A350=2C this has a high level of composites content and poses new issu
es and solutions on many fronts=2C including bonding and lightning protecti
on.=0A
=0A
--------=0A
John Wighton=0A
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Read this topic online here:=0A
=0A
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433644#433644=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
ectric.com=0A
">www.buildersbooks.com=0A
builthelp.com=0A
lotstore.com=0A
m=0A
.matronics.com/contribution=0A
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0A
ics.com=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
=0A
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Electrical bonding |
Karl, Was that in a Europa? I do not want to rabbit on endlessly but my
own plan had been also to link the engine frame to the tail spring of my
mono in case the lightning came at me in that direction, Regards, David
On 2014-11-14 14:53, Karl Heindl wrote:
> DAVID,
>
> THERE ARE ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS. WHEN I WAS HIT BY LIGHTNING, OR CALL IT ELECTRICAL
DISCHARGE, IN CLEAR SKIES, IT ENTERED VIA THE TAILPIPE AND EXITED VIA THE RADIATORS.
APART FROM SOME MELTED METAL THERE WAS NO DAMAGE. I ALSO HAVE NAV LIGHTS
ON THE WING TIPS.
> IT JUST ILLUSTRATES THAT JUST STAYING AWAY FROM CU NIMS IS NO GUARANTEE FOR AVOIDING
A STRIKE.
> Karl
>
> -------------------------
> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:49:26 +0000
> From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Electrical bonding
>
> John & Ira , With the greatest of respect for your professional electrical &
aeroengineering backgrounds, I think there are two rather different issues here:
> For certified commercial aircraft lightning protection standards seek to enclose
all passengers and key aircraft components in a Faraday cage conducting system
that will cope with the fairly frequent strikes affecting commercial operations
without any significant damage. To bring composite aircraft to that standard
clearly involves incorporating some conducting material in the entire surface
of the plane and this is a nonstarter (or at least a non retrospective mod
option) for a plane like ours.
> The other issue is the possibility of minimising any damage to a plane like ours in the event of a lightning strike, ( absolutely going along with the assertion that it is much preferable to avoid it). There are three good accounts of fibreglass small aircraft strikes that I have come across and in every case lightning went from wingtip to wing tip causing significant damage. These cases are the UK glider, previously mentioned (www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_500699.pdf [10] ) , another glider referred to in that AAIB report of the first glider and the Europa strike suffered by Paul McAlister (www.sarangan.org/europa_forum/2004-08/msg00094.html [11] ). In each case the pilot thought he was well clear of threatening clouds it seems. The gliders had the strike track along the aileron control rods whereas with the Europa it tracked along the wing tip lights wiring killing a number of the avionics in passing. I would strongly recommend folk reading all these repo
rts.
Having personally done so I cannot avoid the conclusions that :
> 1. Getting struck by lightning is a real possibility for any sensible, cautious
pilot let alone someone contemplating flying through the ITCZ where rapidly
developing massive Cu Nims are endemic
> 2. Lightning can and will pass from wingtip to wing tip along the most available
conducting track
> 3. More debateable perhaps but my third conclusion was that there is much to
be said for offering a track that steers clear of vital structures, and in the
light of this I had (in 2006) planned laying expanded aluminium mesh in the wing
close outs connected to aluminium foil over the wing tip and to the rear lift
pins/connecting rod. Nowadays I would no doubt use Aluminium Microgrid obtainable
at modest cost from Aircraft Spruce. I would not for a moment want to
suggest that this would give commercial plane standard immunity to damage, but
that it would improve the chances of avoiding either the wing exploding or the
loss of avionics or other key electrical systems. I had toyed with the idea
of static diffusers but without a system of conducting static from other parts
of the aircraft I was not convinced this was workable ( and I guess that this
non conductance of static is what saves us from sparking when we touch ground
- we are only discharging the immediate area of cont
act.
> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>
> On 2014-11-14 08:42, John Wighton wrote:
>
>>
>> Ira,
>>
>> You echo may own opinion on this subject. Fortunately my Europa does not seem
to generate a lot of static (of a kind that can be detected at least). There
is not a lot that could be done if it did collect static whilst airbourne.
>>
>> I had concerns about static build up and discharge on the ground, particularly
whilst fuelling. I adopt the standard procedure of grounding everything to
the same potential by touch, relying on terra firma to act as a ground. So far
there has never been the hint of a discharge even after a vigorous polishing
session.
>>
>> Being involved in aircraft certification myself l am aware of the often heavy
and costly solutions on larger aircraft. I am a structures signatory on the
A350, this has a high level of composites content and poses new issues and solutions
on many fronts, including bonding and lightning protection.
>>
>> --------
>> John Wighton
>> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433644#433644 [1]
>>
>> ectric.com
>> ">www.buildersbooks.com
>> builthelp.com
>> lotstore.com
>> m
>> .matronics.com/contribution
>> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>> ics.com
>
> ==========
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
> ank">www.mrrace.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
>
Links:
------
[1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433644#433644
[2] http://www.aeroelectric.com
[3] http://www.buildersbooks.com
[4] http://www.homebuilthelp.com
[5] http://www.mypilotstore.com
[6] http://www.mrrace.com
[7] http://www.matronics.com/contribution
[8] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
[9] http://forums.matronics.com
[10] http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_500699.pdf
[11] http://www.sarangan.org/europa_forum/2004-08/msg00094.html
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Operating limitations for Jabiru-powered aircraft |
=0AThe item that really bothers me (not too much because I'm
here in the USA and this does not apply to us), is th
at an Europa owner cannot take their wife, kid, friend up
for a ride. =0A =0AIs anyone privy to what problems the Ja
biru engine has been having that would cause this restricti
on?=0A =0A =0AMike Duane=0A =0A =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom
: Roland <schmidtroland@web.de>=0ATo: europa-list <europa-list@matronics
.com>=0ASent: Fri, Nov 14, 2014 12:46 am=0ASubject: Europa-List:
Operating limitations for Jabiru-powered aircraft=0A=0A=0A--> Europa-L
ist message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland@web.de>=0A=0AHello,=0A=0A
maybe an interesting subject also for Jabiru-powered Europas....=0A
=0Ahttp://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_102279=0A=0ARega
rds=0ARoland=0APH-ZTI=0AXS Trigear 914=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic o
nline here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433663#433663=0A
===========================
===========================
===========================
===========================
===========================
===========================0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Electrical bonding |
Of course it happened in my trigear Europa. I think it is one reason why gl
ider pilots always wear a parachute.
From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Electrical bonding
=0A
=0A
=0A
Karl=2C Was that in a Europa? I do not want to rabbit on endlessly but my o
wn plan had been also to link the engine frame to the tail spring of my mon
o in case the lightning came at me in that direction=2C Regards=2C David
=0A
=0A
On 2014-11-14 14:53=2C Karl Heindl wrote:
=0A
=0A
David=2C=0A
=0A
There are always exceptions. When I was hit by lightning=2C or call it elec
trical discharge=2C in clear skies=2C it entered via the tailpipe and exite
d via the radiators. Apart from some melted metal there was no damage. I al
so have nav lights on the wing tips.=0A
It just illustrates that just staying away from cu nims is no guarantee for
avoiding a strike.=0A
Karl
=0A
From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Electrical bonding
John & Ira =2C With the greatest of respect for your professional electric
al & aeroengineering backgrounds=2C I think there are two rather different
issues here:
For certified commercial aircraft lightning protection standards s
eek to enclose all passengers and key aircraft components in a Faraday cage
conducting system that will cope with the fairly frequent strikes affectin
g commercial operations without any significant damage. To bring composite
aircraft to that standard clearly involves incorporating some conducting ma
terial in the entire surface of the plane and this is a nonstarter (or at l
east a non retrospective mod option) for a plane like ours.
The other issue is the possibility of minimising any damage to a pl
ane like ours in the event of a lightning strike=2C ( absolutely going alon
g with the assertion that it is much preferable to avoid it). There are thr
ee good accounts of fibreglass small aircraft strikes that I have come acro
ss and in every case lightning went from wingtip to wing tip causing signif
icant damage. These cases are the UK glider=2C previously mentioned (www.aa
ib.gov.uk/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_500699.pdf ) =2C another glider r
eferred to in that AAIB report of the first glider and the Europa strike su
ffered by Paul McAlister (www.sarangan.org/europa_forum/2004-08/msg00094.ht
ml ). In each case the pilot thought he was well clear of threatening cloud
s it seems. The gliders had the strike track along the aileron control rods
whereas with the Europa it tracked along the wing tip lights wiring killin
g a number of the avionics in passing. I would strongly recommend folk read
ing all these reports. Having personally done so I cannot avoid the conclus
ions that :
1. Getting struck by lightning is a real possibility for any sensible=2C c
autious pilot let alone someone contemplating flying through the ITCZ where
rapidly developing massive Cu Nims are endemic
2. Lightning can and will pass from wingtip to wing tip along the most ava
ilable conducting track
3. More debateable perhaps but my third conclusion was that there is much
to be said for offering a track that steers clear of vital structures=2C an
d in the light of this I had (in 2006) planned laying expanded aluminium me
sh in the wing close outs connected to aluminium foil over the wing tip and
to the rear lift pins/connecting rod. Nowadays I would no doubt use Alumin
ium Microgrid obtainable at modest cost from Aircraft Spruce. I would not
for a moment want to suggest that this would give commercial plane standard
immunity to damage=2C but that it would improve the chances of avoiding ei
ther the wing exploding or the loss of avionics or other key electrical sys
tems. I had toyed with the idea of static diffusers but without a system of
conducting static from other parts of the aircraft I was not convinced thi
s was workable ( and I guess that this non conductance of static is what sa
ves us from sparking when we touch ground - we are only discharging the imm
ediate area of contact.
Regards=2C David Joyce=2C G-XSDJ
=0A
=0A
On 2014-11-14 08:42=2C John Wighton wrote:
=0A
=0A
=0A
Ira=2C=0A
=0A
You echo may own opinion on this subject. Fortunately my Europa does not s
eem to generate a lot of static (of a kind that can be detected at least).
There is not a lot that could be done if it did collect static whilst airb
ourne. =0A
=0A
I had concerns about static build up and discharge on the ground=2C particu
larly whilst fuelling. I adopt the standard procedure of grounding everyth
ing to the same potential by touch=2C relying on terra firma to act as a gr
ound. So far there has never been the hint of a discharge even after a vig
orous polishing session.=0A
=0A
Being involved in aircraft certification myself l am aware of the often hea
vy and costly solutions on larger aircraft. I am a structures signatory on
the A350=2C this has a high level of composites content and poses new issu
es and solutions on many fronts=2C including bonding and lightning protecti
on.=0A
=0A
--------=0A
John Wighton=0A
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Read this topic online here:=0A
=0A
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433644#433644=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
ectric.com=0A
">www.buildersbooks.com=0A
builthelp.com=0A
lotstore.com=0A
m=0A
.matronics.com/contribution=0A
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0A
ics.com=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com=0A
" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com=0A
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com=0A
="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com=0A
ank">www.mrrace.com=0A
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A
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Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Electrical bonding |
Hello everyone,
I documented my incident on my WEB site http://www.europa.net.nz/363/
If you go to the left hand side of the page and expand open the
=9CFlying Experiences=9D tab you find a page titled
=9CA Lightning Strike=9D
As to adding discharge wicks, it my understanding that for certified
aircraft they statically charge the aircraft and map the field. From
this they determine the ideal locations for wicks. I guess if you added
your own wicks you can=99t make things worse but on the other hand
it might not accomplish much either.
It is my understanding that the addition of mesh in the structure is for
a different purpose. It is to provide areas to dissipate lightning
strike should one occur.
I don=99t have firsthand experience so I=99m happy to be
corrected on the above.
Paul
Message 9
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Hi Pat, could you tell me where are you located and how much you are looking
for? Thanks, Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Tunney
Sent: Sunday, November 9, 2014 11:27 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Wing Tip Lenses
--> <ptunney@intergen.com>
Hello I have a pair of unused wing tip lenses, as supplied by Fred Klein.
I no longer require them so if anybody is interested, please make me an
offer.
Thanks
Pat
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