---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/28/14: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 08:46 AM - Just Two Days Left! - Still Behind... (Matt Dralle) 1. 12:22 AM - Re: Thanksgiving (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 2. 04:17 AM - Re: Europa fuel system - is it suitable for MOGAS with ethanol? (GBWFH2010) 3. 05:06 AM - Re: Thanksgiving (William Daniell) 4. 06:01 AM - Re: Thanksgiving (Pete) 5. 06:58 AM - Re: Thanksgiving (Hal Carpenter) 6. 09:33 AM - Re: Thanksgiving (Tony Wickens) 7. 01:06 PM - Re: Europa fuel system - is it suitable for MOGAS with ethanol? (Bud Yerly) 8. 03:53 PM - Re: Europa fuel system - is it suitable for MOGAS with ethanol? (Bud Yerly) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:18 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Just Two Days Left! - Still Behind... Dear Listers, There are just two more days left in this years List Fund Raiser. We are still way behind last year in terms of the number of contributions and total contribution amount. I really want to keep providing these services to the homebuilt community, but it take resources. Since there's no advertising budget or deep pockets to keep the operation a float, its solely your generosity during the Fund Raiser that keeps things going. Please make a Contribution today. If you've been putting off showing your support for the Lists, now is the time to do it! Make a contribution with a Credit Card or though PayPal at that Matronics Contribution web site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a check in the mail: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you in advance for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:11 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Thanksgiving Great News Bud!=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Bud Yerly =0ATo: europa-list =0ASent: Friday, 28 November 2014, 4:00=0ASubject: Europa-List: Thank sgiving=0A =0A=0A=0AIt is Thanksgiving Holiday-time here in the =0AStates .- I have a lot to be thankful for...- Mostly for family and =0Afriends .- =0A-=0AThanks to all for your kind words and support during my =0Abr ief prostate cancer scare.- It took a year of fun and games in and out of =0Amedical facilities and Moffit Cancer Center- to rid me of =0Athis.=0A -=0AI have been returned to a class three medical and am a =0Apilot again .=0A-=0AI especially have to thank-Dr.- Ira Rampil, my =0Aaviation me dical examiner, and Europa owner, for his help and support.- You =0Aknow you are in good hands when you get a letter from the Federal Aviation =0AAd ministration telling me I am eligible for-my medical with only an office =0Avisit required.- Ira'sknowledge, research, =0Asupport and thorough pro fessionalism was a major factor in my quick return to =0Aflying status.=0A -=0AI am in his debt.=0A-=0AIra is located at Peach State Airport (KGA2 ) near =0AWilliamson GA.- His personal office is in the Candler Field Mus eum, and his =0Abeautiful-home and hangar are at the end of the runway. - Fly in and =0Aget your medical exam, a great lunch at the restaurant- and fly home.- =0AAn aviators paradise.=0A-=0ATime to get 12AY in for a quick annual and turn aviation =0Afuel into precision air work again.=0A -=0ARegards to all,=0ABud Yerly,=0ABack in the saddle again.=0A-=0A- ==================== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:39 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa fuel system - is it suitable for MOGAS with ethanol? From: "GBWFH2010" Thank you to all who have replied. This is what I like about this forum, so much good information from people who know and understand Europas. To answer John W question, where have I been getting MOGAS without ethanol? I have been using BP Ultimate Unleaded without any problems, since Malcolm McBride of LAA Engineering published the following in the July 2013 LAA Magazine: Therefore we can revise our advice to pilots that if they can no longer source ethanol free 95RON fuel but can obtain 97+RON fuel which complies with BS EN228, then it is a legally acceptable alternative" Nearly all the fuel company's 'Super' or 'Premium' fuels are labelled EN228 on the pumps and until very recently have been ethanol-free. In the South East BP are now adding ethanol, but so far Esso are not. The frustrating thing is the situation differs from region to region and it is difficult getting information from the oil companies. So we know methanol is coming, hence my initial question. I was interested in the CAA's latest CAP747 document and encouraged by Brian stating the LAA will be issuing their own information shortly. Finally Bud, what can I say? Thank you for the incredibly detailed information. I will be following this very carefully if we get permitted to use ethanol fuel. It is also great to hear you are back in the air again. -------- Gordon Grant G-BWFH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=434859#434859 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Thanksgiving From: William Daniell Bud great to hear and thanks for all you help Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 11:00 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: > It is Thanksgiving Holiday time here in the States. I have a lot to be > thankful for... Mostly for family and friends. > > Thanks to all for your kind words and support during my brief prostate > cancer scare. It took a year of fun and games in and out of medical > facilities and Moffit Cancer Center to rid me of this. > > I have been returned to a class three medical and am a pilot again. > > I especially have to thank Dr. Ira Rampil, my aviation medical examiner, > and Europa owner, for his help and support. You know you are in good hands > when you get a letter from the Federal Aviation Administration telling me I > am eligible for my medical with only an office visit required. Ira's > knowledge, research, support and thorough professionalism was a major > factor in my quick return to flying status. > > I am in his debt. > > Ira is located at Peach State Airport (KGA2) near Williamson GA. His > personal office is in the Candler Field Museum, and his beautiful home and > hangar are at the end of the runway. Fly in and get your medical exam, a > great lunch at the restaurant and fly home. An aviators paradise. > > Time to get 12AY in for a quick annual and turn aviation fuel into > precision air work again. > > Regards to all, > Bud Yerly, > Back in the saddle again. > > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Thanksgiving From: Pete =0A =0AHi Bud,=0AI have not liked to ask how you were gett ing on re the Medicalissue. Now wonderful news. Sue and i are back in FLorida again for ourfall sojourn so your go od news is especially pertinent to us at this time.=0AWe als o had good news this morning. My third grandchild was born just 1 and ahalf hours into Black Friday!!! Thanksgiving is all the more relevent.=0APete & Sue,=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A----- Original Message-----=0AFrom: Bud Yerly =0ATo: europ a-list =0ASent: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 4:09=0AS ubject: Europa-List: Thanksgiving=0A=0A=0AIt is Thanksgiving Holiday time here in the States. I have a lot to be thankful for... Mostly for family and friends. =0A =0AThanks to a ll for your kind words and support during my brief prostate cancer scare. It took a year of fun and games in and out of medical facilities and Moffit Cancer Center to rid me of this.=0A =0AI have been returned to a class three me dical and am a pilot again.=0A =0AI especially have to thank Dr. Ira Rampil, my aviation medical examiner, and Europa owner, for his help and support. You know you are in go od hands when you get a letter from the Federal Aviation A dministration telling me I am eligible for my medical with o nly an office visit required. Ira's knowledge, research, supp ort and thorough professionalism was a major factor in my qu ick return to flying status.=0A =0AI am in his debt.=0A =0AI ra is located at Peach State Airport (KGA2) near Williamson GA. His personal office is in the Candler Field Museum, a nd his beautiful home and hangar are at the end of the r unway. Fly in and get your medical exam, a great lunch at the restaurant and fly home. An aviators paradise.=0A =0A Time to get 12AY in for a quick annual and turn aviation fuel into precision air work again.=0A =0ARegards to all,=0ABud Yerly,=0ABack in the saddle again.=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A=0A=0A =========================== -M =========================== =========================== =========================== ===================0A=0A=0A =0A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:55 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Thanksgiving From: Hal Carpenter Bud, You are correct that we all have much to be thankful for. I delt with prostate cancer back in 08 and am currently doing well on an every six months hormone shot. PSA stays at 0 for all practical purposes. Keeping my medical between 08 and 13 was a hassle but with the most recent medical I am back on the normal 2 year cycle and don't have to notify the FAA of prostate status unless there is medical change. I had the narrow beam radiation treatment in 08 which seemed to work for awhile but then PSA shot up and now I have "advanced" cancer so they say. I feel very normal in every way, still work and am quite active for a 66 year old! I do hope the "drivers license medical" becomes a reality soon. For the kind of flying I do, it would be suitable and less dealing with FAA would be welcome. Haven't seem Claud for awhile. We work out of town (at Ft. Bliss in El Paso) three weeks out of the month so it has been a challenge to have time to fly when home with all the other family things to tend to. Claud's wings have been off his plane for about three months...don't know why. Thanks for all your expert help and advice relative to owning and operating a Europa! It is good to have someone like you as our technical expert. Blessings, Hal Carpenter On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 9:00 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: > It is Thanksgiving Holiday time here in the States. I have a lot to be > thankful for... Mostly for family and friends. > > Thanks to all for your kind words and support during my brief prostate > cancer scare. It took a year of fun and games in and out of medical > facilities and Moffit Cancer Center to rid me of this. > > I have been returned to a class three medical and am a pilot again. > > I especially have to thank Dr. Ira Rampil, my aviation medical examiner, > and Europa owner, for his help and support. You know you are in good hands > when you get a letter from the Federal Aviation Administration telling me I > am eligible for my medical with only an office visit required. Ira's > knowledge, research, support and thorough professionalism was a major > factor in my quick return to flying status. > > I am in his debt. > > Ira is located at Peach State Airport (KGA2) near Williamson GA. His > personal office is in the Candler Field Museum, and his beautiful home and > hangar are at the end of the runway. Fly in and get your medical exam, a > great lunch at the restaurant and fly home. An aviators paradise. > > Time to get 12AY in for a quick annual and turn aviation fuel into > precision air work again. > > Regards to all, > Bud Yerly, > Back in the saddle again. > > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:24 AM PST US From: Tony Wickens Subject: Re: Europa-List: Thanksgiving Excellent news Bud. We are all very happy for you and very much appreciate your wise council on matters Europa. Tony Wickens From: Bud Yerly Sent: Friday, November 28, 2014 4:00 AM Subject: Europa-List: Thanksgiving It is Thanksgiving Holiday time here in the States. I have a lot to be thankful for... Mostly for family and friends. Thanks to all for your kind words and support during my brief prostate cancer scare. It took a year of fun and games in and out of medical facilities and Moffit Cancer Center to rid me of this. I have been returned to a class three medical and am a pilot again. I especially have to thank Dr. Ira Rampil, my aviation medical examiner, and Europa owner, for his help and support. You know you are in good hands when you get a letter from the Federal Aviation Administration telling me I am eligible for my medical with only an office visit required. Ira's knowledge, research, support and thorough professionalism was a major factor in my quick return to flying status. I am in his debt. Ira is located at Peach State Airport (KGA2) near Williamson GA. His personal office is in the Candler Field Museum, and his beautiful home and hangar are at the end of the runway. Fly in and get your medical exam, a great lunch at the restaurant and fly home. An aviators paradise. Time to get 12AY in for a quick annual and turn aviation fuel into precision air work again. Regards to all, Bud Yerly, Back in the saddle again. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa fuel system - is it suitable for MOGAS with ethanol? From: Bud Yerly Hal=2C Thanks for your comments. I've sent 3 invoices=2C two in Oct. And another two weeks ago. Please check your junk mail. I'll send the cap on payment. Best Regards=2C Bud Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID Hal Carpenter wrote: Hi Bud=2C Thanks for all this good information. We have used Ethanol free mogas almost exclusively...locally....trips are a different story as most airports don't keep mogas let alone e free gas. So=2C we carry lead bindin g solution. Anyway=2C what about the fuel caps? Have they been shipped out yet? Hal Carpenter-Amarillo=2C TX On Thu=2C Nov 27=2C 2014 at 8:11 PM=2C Bud Yerly wrote: > > Gordon=2C > At the shop we have seen the results of up to 10% ethanol in MOGAS. > > I did a paper on the pros and cons of MOGAS vs AVGAS. See my website: > www.customflightcreations.com/sitebuildercontent/ > sitebuilderfiles/ethanol.pdf > > Effects ethanol on the Europa are summarized and editorialized below: > > The fuel tank is unaffected by ethanol (or alcohol) of any type. The > "plastic tanks" are not as prone to water condensation as metal tanks are .. > Note: Ethanol absorbs water=2C so read below. > > The fuel filler neck (that 57 degree black rubber hose between the tank > and the FS18 cobra neck inlet tube) tends to harden with ethanol laced fu el > when the tank is filled well into the neck. It also tends to stink. > Using 2 inch aluminum pipe bent or welded to the proper angle and trimme d > close the the plastic tank and FS18=2C cures this. > > The Red stripped fuel hose used on the fuel tank bosses are fine=2C > especially if you change the hoses every 5 years anyway. When installed > properly=2C the hose doesn't contact the fuel. I've been known to use > ProSeal 890 to seal the aluminum to tank boss gap then put the hose on to > assure a good seal. > > The Redux used to secure the coarse screens in the tank fuel fittings > tends to get brittle with exposure to ethanol. About the 10 year point o r > so it's really crumbly. It may be a good idea on the 5 year hose change to > pull these fittings and inspect /replace the Redux. Since ethanol laced > fuel cannot be used in ANY fiberglass tank (epoxy or polyester) that > problem should be expected. Pro Seal (PPG 890) fuel sealant will soften > with ethanol but holds up well with up to 10 percent ethanol. > > Fuel delivery lines should be of the newer SAE J30 R-9 or better. In the > US=2C the EPA carb fuel lines (now a SAE J30 R 14 or better (incorporates a > synthetic flourelastomer liner) have proven to be quite reliable. The fu el > hose has an inner liner and a normal outer rubber with fiber reinforcemen t > in the rubber section and works well on barbed fittings. The fuel smell > does not permeate these lines. Caution=2C do not over tighten these line s > with your hose clamps. > > The braided fuel hose sold by Aeroquip is not double lined and tends to > permeate the smell through the lines over time=2C but I only use them in the > mono wheel well=2C and have no smell problems with the MOGAS as the wheel > well is ventilated. Everywhere else in the mono=2C I use an SAE J30 R-14 > line. IF USING MOGAS WITH AEROQUIP RUBBER LINES=2C change them at 5 years as > although they seem fine with ethanol up to 10%=2C they do harden over tim e. > > Teflon fuel lines are fine=2C but know your fuel line. PTFE fuel lines > crack just like the tank does with flexing. Do not bend them beyond thei r > radius. Use only proper fittings=2C and in our experience=2C these lines take a > set after a few years. If removed and bent from their original shape > during re-installation=2C test them as they do crack easily if flexed. > Nothing lasts forever=2C so I tend not to use these lines as they are > expensive to purchase and make=2C and over time have proven to be fragile ... > > The fuel pumps are OK as the Facet pumps for the 912 Series can handle up > to 10% ethanol. The Piersburgs fail about every 5-7 years in some way s o > I can't verify the 914 pumps over time. > > The Rotax engine and its components is fine with fuel with up to 10% > ethanol. Mechanics have concerns about flying with ethanol of 10% due to > vaporization. Read on below. > > Many have commented on and shared their own experiences with ethanol lace d > fuel in the past. Do your research. My clients get shown a video we did > on ethanol effects on a 914 and its tank from an aircraft that sat for s ix > months with a half a tank of MOGAS with 10% ethanol gas. It is sobering. > > Here are the problems I have experienced: > > Ethanol laced fuel should not be stored in the aircraft for any longer > than 30 days. Especially if in low temp high humidity conditions such as > winter. Water condenses in the fuel over time and once the ethanol reache s > water saturation=2C a layer of nasty scum forms in the water on the bott om > of the tank. This is some sort of fungus by the looks of it and quite > tough to clean out. > > Even if the aircraft was properly decommissioned at the end of the flying > season=2C pull the carb float bowls=2C clean them=2C re-commission the en gine and > prep for startup. > > Ethanol fuel will also affect the oil so be sure to put new oil in at the > end of the season=2C fog the cylinders and turn the engine over to keep t he > gears and cylinders coated. > > When in doubt or buying a used aircraft=2C fuel lines which do not meet t he > current fuel permeation standards tend not to leak but do allow the fuel > scent to permeate through the lines and smell up the aircraft (so you thi nk > you have a leak) and are brittle or cracked on the ends=2C so do yourself a > favor and replace them. > > Rotax 91X engines: > > Ethanol will corrode the carb bowls if the fuel is left to sit for a few > months (many manufacturers say degradation begins in less than 30 days). > The aluminum coating in the float bowls actually flakes off the bottom. > This particulate causes premature wear in the main and needle jets and ca n > clog the jets. > > The 912S and 914=2C with the higher octane rating requirements=2C are fin e > with fresh MOGAS fuel. However=2C six month old premium fuel in Florida or > wet climates will absorb water=2C to saturation and will lower the ethano l > content and octane. I have never had a problem with detonation or pingin g > at high power after the aircraft has set in the hanger up to 30 days. > Plugs look good over 50 hours of engine operation at cruise operation and > local flying. (Sorry=2C but I change plugs every annual and typically ave rage > only 50 to 100 hours per year=2C and since plugs are cheap=2C I don't cle an > them.) > > Flying with fresh ethanol MOGAS has not been a problem. Up to 10K we hav e > had no problems with vaporization=2C detonation or misfires over various > power settings ranging from max power down to 65% power. Some reliable > sources have commented that after landing on a cross country fuel stop=2C > fuel vaporization has prevented engine start. I have not had the proble m > as we properly shield and run our fuel lines clear of heat sources and > always use fresh fuel. We do Young Eagle orientation flights and have > found on hot summer days=2C engine restarts between two and three flights > have been problem free. > > Bottom line is=2C don't leave ethanol laced fuel in the system over a mon th > (my opinion) and if the plane is to be stored for any length of time (ove r > 30 days)=2C use a fuel stabilizer and run it through the engine to assure the > fuel additive fills the float bowls. Even if the aircraft was properly > decommissioned at the end of the flying season=2C pull the carb float bow ls=2C > clean them=2C re-commission the engine and prep for startup. Drain the > MOGAS and refill with fresh fuel. > > OR=2C drain or burn off the ethanol MOGAS and fill completely with 100LL > AVGAS. It is fairly easy to just use AVGAS in your last couple of tanks of > the year then ad a fuel stabilizer if you like=2C and put the covers on t he > plane until flying again. Some aviation fuel suppliers say that 100LL do es > lose some of its lead and should not be used if stagnant in the tanks for a > year=2C but Shell Aviation experts says properly stored and free of water =2C > AVGAS lasts for years with no degradation. > > I do not use ethanol fuel in my 914 any longer as our local MOGAS fuel > suppliers can only supply 92 octane=2C and can't guarantee it being that high > after only a short period of time. I do not leave even AVGAS in my tank > for over six months without pumping out a large amount to assure the > bottom of the tank=2C filters and float bowls are clean=2C and the fuel h as the > right color=2C odor and cleanliness. I change oil every 25 hours with AV GAS > and use a fuel additive (Decalin) to keep the lead in suspension. Works > Great. The fuel price difference and extra oil cost is made back in > consistent engine operation and piece of mind. > > Best Regards=2C > Bud Yerly > Custom Flight Creations=2C Inc. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "GBWFH2010" > Sent: Wednesday=2C November 26=2C 2014 6:38 PM > To: > Subject: Europa-List: Europa fuel system - is it suitable for MOGAS with > ethanol? > >> >> It is getting difficult to obtain ethanol-free MOGAS in the UK. Given >> that Rotax equipped microlights in the UK have been operating using MOGA S >> containing ethanol for several years=2C seemingly without incident=2C th e >> indications are the CAA/LAA may be willing to grant dispensation for >> ethanol based fuel on a type by type basis. >> >> We know the Rotax 912 is approved for up to 10% ethanol and the fuel >> pipes and connectors in our Europas are the same as many microlights=2C so in >> theory these would appear to be suitable=2C but my question is does anyb ody >> know if the Europa fuel tank is ethanol resistant? If it is we may be ab le >> to get clearance to operate on MOGAS with ethanol. >> >> Of course whenever possible it would always be preferable to use ethanol >> free fuel=2C but it would be good to have the flexibility to operate leg ally >> on MOGAS with ethanol when necessary. >> >> -------- >> Gordon Grant >> >> G-BWFH >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=434794#434794 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:53:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa fuel system - is it suitable for MOGAS with ethanol? From: Bud Yerly Hal=2C Thanks for your comments. I've sent 3 invoices=2C two in Oct. And another two weeks ago. Please check your junk mail. I'll send the cap on payment. Best Regards=2C Bud Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID Hal Carpenter wrote: Hi Bud=2C Thanks for all this good information. We have used Ethanol free mogas almost exclusively...locally....trips are a different story as most airports don't keep mogas let alone e free gas. So=2C we carry lead bindin g solution. Anyway=2C what about the fuel caps? Have they been shipped out yet? Hal Carpenter-Amarillo=2C TX On Thu=2C Nov 27=2C 2014 at 8:11 PM=2C Bud Yerly wrote: > > Gordon=2C > At the shop we have seen the results of up to 10% ethanol in MOGAS. > > I did a paper on the pros and cons of MOGAS vs AVGAS. See my website: > www.customflightcreations.com/sitebuildercontent/ > sitebuilderfiles/ethanol.pdf > > Effects ethanol on the Europa are summarized and editorialized below: > > The fuel tank is unaffected by ethanol (or alcohol) of any type. The > "plastic tanks" are not as prone to water condensation as metal tanks are .. > Note: Ethanol absorbs water=2C so read below. > > The fuel filler neck (that 57 degree black rubber hose between the tank > and the FS18 cobra neck inlet tube) tends to harden with ethanol laced fu el > when the tank is filled well into the neck. It also tends to stink. > Using 2 inch aluminum pipe bent or welded to the proper angle and trimme d > close the the plastic tank and FS18=2C cures this. > > The Red stripped fuel hose used on the fuel tank bosses are fine=2C > especially if you change the hoses every 5 years anyway. When installed > properly=2C the hose doesn't contact the fuel. I've been known to use > ProSeal 890 to seal the aluminum to tank boss gap then put the hose on to > assure a good seal. > > The Redux used to secure the coarse screens in the tank fuel fittings > tends to get brittle with exposure to ethanol. About the 10 year point o r > so it's really crumbly. It may be a good idea on the 5 year hose change to > pull these fittings and inspect /replace the Redux. Since ethanol laced > fuel cannot be used in ANY fiberglass tank (epoxy or polyester) that > problem should be expected. Pro Seal (PPG 890) fuel sealant will soften > with ethanol but holds up well with up to 10 percent ethanol. > > Fuel delivery lines should be of the newer SAE J30 R-9 or better. In the > US=2C the EPA carb fuel lines (now a SAE J30 R 14 or better (incorporates a > synthetic flourelastomer liner) have proven to be quite reliable. The fu el > hose has an inner liner and a normal outer rubber with fiber reinforcemen t > in the rubber section and works well on barbed fittings. The fuel smell > does not permeate these lines. Caution=2C do not over tighten these line s > with your hose clamps. > > The braided fuel hose sold by Aeroquip is not double lined and tends to > permeate the smell through the lines over time=2C but I only use them in the > mono wheel well=2C and have no smell problems with the MOGAS as the wheel > well is ventilated. Everywhere else in the mono=2C I use an SAE J30 R-14 > line. IF USING MOGAS WITH AEROQUIP RUBBER LINES=2C change them at 5 years as > although they seem fine with ethanol up to 10%=2C they do harden over tim e. > > Teflon fuel lines are fine=2C but know your fuel line. PTFE fuel lines > crack just like the tank does with flexing. Do not bend them beyond thei r > radius. Use only proper fittings=2C and in our experience=2C these lines take a > set after a few years. If removed and bent from their original shape > during re-installation=2C test them as they do crack easily if flexed. > Nothing lasts forever=2C so I tend not to use these lines as they are > expensive to purchase and make=2C and over time have proven to be fragile ... > > The fuel pumps are OK as the Facet pumps for the 912 Series can handle up > to 10% ethanol. The Piersburgs fail about every 5-7 years in some way s o > I can't verify the 914 pumps over time. > > The Rotax engine and its components is fine with fuel with up to 10% > ethanol. Mechanics have concerns about flying with ethanol of 10% due to > vaporization. Read on below. > > Many have commented on and shared their own experiences with ethanol lace d > fuel in the past. Do your research. My clients get shown a video we did > on ethanol effects on a 914 and its tank from an aircraft that sat for s ix > months with a half a tank of MOGAS with 10% ethanol gas. It is sobering. > > Here are the problems I have experienced: > > Ethanol laced fuel should not be stored in the aircraft for any longer > than 30 days. Especially if in low temp high humidity conditions such as > winter. Water condenses in the fuel over time and once the ethanol reache s > water saturation=2C a layer of nasty scum forms in the water on the bott om > of the tank. This is some sort of fungus by the looks of it and quite > tough to clean out. > > Even if the aircraft was properly decommissioned at the end of the flying > season=2C pull the carb float bowls=2C clean them=2C re-commission the en gine and > prep for startup. > > Ethanol fuel will also affect the oil so be sure to put new oil in at the > end of the season=2C fog the cylinders and turn the engine over to keep t he > gears and cylinders coated. > > When in doubt or buying a used aircraft=2C fuel lines which do not meet t he > current fuel permeation standards tend not to leak but do allow the fuel > scent to permeate through the lines and smell up the aircraft (so you thi nk > you have a leak) and are brittle or cracked on the ends=2C so do yourself a > favor and replace them. > > Rotax 91X engines: > > Ethanol will corrode the carb bowls if the fuel is left to sit for a few > months (many manufacturers say degradation begins in less than 30 days). > The aluminum coating in the float bowls actually flakes off the bottom. > This particulate causes premature wear in the main and needle jets and ca n > clog the jets. > > The 912S and 914=2C with the higher octane rating requirements=2C are fin e > with fresh MOGAS fuel. However=2C six month old premium fuel in Florida or > wet climates will absorb water=2C to saturation and will lower the ethano l > content and octane. I have never had a problem with detonation or pingin g > at high power after the aircraft has set in the hanger up to 30 days. > Plugs look good over 50 hours of engine operation at cruise operation and > local flying. (Sorry=2C but I change plugs every annual and typically ave rage > only 50 to 100 hours per year=2C and since plugs are cheap=2C I don't cle an > them.) > > Flying with fresh ethanol MOGAS has not been a problem. Up to 10K we hav e > had no problems with vaporization=2C detonation or misfires over various > power settings ranging from max power down to 65% power. Some reliable > sources have commented that after landing on a cross country fuel stop=2C > fuel vaporization has prevented engine start. I have not had the proble m > as we properly shield and run our fuel lines clear of heat sources and > always use fresh fuel. We do Young Eagle orientation flights and have > found on hot summer days=2C engine restarts between two and three flights > have been problem free. > > Bottom line is=2C don't leave ethanol laced fuel in the system over a mon th > (my opinion) and if the plane is to be stored for any length of time (ove r > 30 days)=2C use a fuel stabilizer and run it through the engine to assure the > fuel additive fills the float bowls. Even if the aircraft was properly > decommissioned at the end of the flying season=2C pull the carb float bow ls=2C > clean them=2C re-commission the engine and prep for startup. Drain the > MOGAS and refill with fresh fuel. > > OR=2C drain or burn off the ethanol MOGAS and fill completely with 100LL > AVGAS. It is fairly easy to just use AVGAS in your last couple of tanks of > the year then ad a fuel stabilizer if you like=2C and put the covers on t he > plane until flying again. Some aviation fuel suppliers say that 100LL do es > lose some of its lead and should not be used if stagnant in the tanks for a > year=2C but Shell Aviation experts says properly stored and free of water =2C > AVGAS lasts for years with no degradation. > > I do not use ethanol fuel in my 914 any longer as our local MOGAS fuel > suppliers can only supply 92 octane=2C and can't guarantee it being that high > after only a short period of time. I do not leave even AVGAS in my tank > for over six months without pumping out a large amount to assure the > bottom of the tank=2C filters and float bowls are clean=2C and the fuel h as the > right color=2C odor and cleanliness. I change oil every 25 hours with AV GAS > and use a fuel additive (Decalin) to keep the lead in suspension. Works > Great. The fuel price difference and extra oil cost is made back in > consistent engine operation and piece of mind. > > Best Regards=2C > Bud Yerly > Custom Flight Creations=2C Inc. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "GBWFH2010" > Sent: Wednesday=2C November 26=2C 2014 6:38 PM > To: > Subject: Europa-List: Europa fuel system - is it suitable for MOGAS with > ethanol? > >> >> It is getting difficult to obtain ethanol-free MOGAS in the UK. Given >> that Rotax equipped microlights in the UK have been operating using MOGA S >> containing ethanol for several years=2C seemingly without incident=2C th e >> indications are the CAA/LAA may be willing to grant dispensation for >> ethanol based fuel on a type by type basis. >> >> We know the Rotax 912 is approved for up to 10% ethanol and the fuel >> pipes and connectors in our Europas are the same as many microlights=2C so in >> theory these would appear to be suitable=2C but my question is does anyb ody >> know if the Europa fuel tank is ethanol resistant? If it is we may be ab le >> to get clearance to operate on MOGAS with ethanol. >> >> Of course whenever possible it would always be preferable to use ethanol >> free fuel=2C but it would be good to have the flexibility to operate leg ally >> on MOGAS with ethanol when necessary. >> >> -------- >> Gordon Grant >> >> G-BWFH >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=434794#434794 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.