---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/06/14: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:25 AM - Re: Re: monowheel brake caliper mounting position (Rowland Carson) 2. 06:33 AM - torque tube (fraser221) 3. 06:54 AM - Re: torque tube (Pete Lawless) 4. 07:48 AM - Re: torque tube (spcialeffects) 5. 08:56 AM - Re: torque tube (Karl Heindl) 6. 04:13 PM - Re: torque tube (Tony Renshaw) 7. 04:37 PM - Re: torque tube (Karl Heindl) 8. 05:14 PM - Re: torque tube (Tony Renshaw) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:50 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: monowheel brake caliper mounting position From: Rowland Carson On 6 Dec 2014, at 06:42, JonSmith wrote: > Hi Roland, the (revised) brake caliper position was covered in the factory tech talk issue 22 on page 13. Attached is a copy of the page. I bought a new mounting bracket from the factory some years ago to replace the original design on my classic. Five minute job (almost) to replace it and it saves carving holes in the wheel well sides! Cheers! Jon - thanks for the info. I hadnt realised this discussion was soooo long ago! I do have a SX kit and so my brake caliper is already in the recommended position. I can relax now (about this issue, anyway). in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:20 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: torque tube From: "fraser221" i am working on restoring a classic mono to flying condition and in the process of changing the tp11 bushes for the torque tube. i have checked the levels at 3 different points, the wing spar bushes, top of footwell forward of the firewall and on top of the seat module behind the headrests (on uncarpeted surface). i get a similar reading between the spar bushes and the footwell tops but quite different on the seat module. is this a problem or am i right in thinking that the spar bushes should be the one to use? hope someone out there can assist. Vic Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435414#435414 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:29 AM PST US From: Pete Lawless Subject: Re: Europa-List: torque tube Hi Vic The seats are part of the cockpit module glued into place as part of the build. Very probable that it was fitted at a slight angle to the fuselage. Should stick with the wing spar as they agree with the top of the foot well, which is all pre moulded. Regards Pete On 06/12/14 14:32, fraser221 wrote: > > i am working on restoring a classic mono to flying condition and in the process of changing the tp11 bushes for the torque tube. > > i have checked the levels at 3 different points, the wing spar bushes, top of footwell forward of the firewall and on top of the seat module behind the headrests (on uncarpeted surface). > > i get a similar reading between the spar bushes and the footwell tops but quite different on the seat module. > > is this a problem or am i right in thinking that the spar bushes should be the one to use? > > hope someone out there can assist. > > Vic > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435414#435414 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:24 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: torque tube From: "spcialeffects" Hi vic. I'm in agreement with Pete about the cockpit module. As it was a separate moulding needing to be bonded in with measure to to the footwells it may have been off. I remember using string from the torque tube ends to the middle of the firewall to make sure there was no sweep of the tube and I then put an inclinometer on the tube ends to make sure they were level. Of cause the canoe sure be level from the start Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435418#435418 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_680.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:40 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: torque tube Vic=2C Seems to me that the tailplanes should line up with the wings=2C i.e. spar bushes.Ignore the other readings.Karl > Date: Sat=2C 6 Dec 2014 14:53:52 +0000 > From: pete@lawless.info > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: torque tube > > > Hi Vic > > The seats are part of the cockpit module glued into place as part of the > build. Very probable that it was fitted at a slight angle to the > fuselage. Should stick with the wing spar as they agree with the top of > the foot well=2C which is all pre moulded. > > Regards > > Pete > > On 06/12/14 14:32=2C fraser221 wrote: > > > > i am working on restoring a classic mono to flying condition and in the process of changing the tp11 bushes for the torque tube. > > > > i have checked the levels at 3 different points=2C the wing spar bushes =2C top of footwell forward of the firewall and on top of the seat module b ehind the headrests (on uncarpeted surface). > > > > i get a similar reading between the spar bushes and the footwell tops b ut quite different on the seat module. > > > > is this a problem or am i right in thinking that the spar bushes should be the one to use? > > > > hope someone out there can assist. > > > > Vic > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435414#435414 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:40 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: torque tube My lower fuse is in a jig, and I can twist it slightly to get the torque tub e perfect, BUT, I have no clue it will stay there when the top goes on. It h opefully should, but what happens if it doesn't? Does it matter if the tail p lane isn't exactly parallel to the wings? I'll go out here on a limb and say it doesn't matter a rats. The difference in a 1 degree displacement, which I would consider a big error, or dare I say variance, would present a negligi ble difference to the relative wind, and in terms of creating an asymmetric l ift or displacement vector, that was noticeable, I just can't see it. I'd go so far as to say you could build in an error that was large enough to be vi sible when standing 10' in front of the spinner, a tail plane error of let's say 5 degrees, and it would make bugger all difference. It might even impro ve single pilot flying with asymmetric weight distribution. Same with the wings. They were set, weren't they, when the module went in. I reckon chasing our tails for perfection is going to only address the glarin g anomalies, but if your cockpit module was installed half correctly, as my k ids would say, "just chill". Regards Tony Renshaw Sent from my iPad > On 6 Dec 2014, at 8:55 am, Karl Heindl wrote: > > Vic, > > Seems to me that the tailplanes should line up with the wings, i.e. spar b ushes. > Ignore the other readings. > Karl > > > Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 14:53:52 +0000 > > From: pete@lawless.info > > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: torque tube > > > > > > Hi Vic > > > > The seats are part of the cockpit module glued into place as part of the > > build. Very probable that it was fitted at a slight angle to the > > fuselage. Should stick with the wing spar as they agree with the top of > > the foot well, which is all pre moulded. > > > > Regards > > > > Pete > > > > On 06/12/14 14:32, fraser221 wrote: > > > > > > > i am working on restoring a classic mono to flying condition and in th e process of changing the tp11 bushes for the torque tube. > > > > > > i have checked the levels at 3 different points, the wing spar bushes, top of footwell forward of the firewall and on top of the seat module behin d the headrests (on uncarpeted surface). > > > > > > i get a similar reading between the spar bushes and the footwell tops b ut quite different on the seat module. > > > > > > is this a problem or am i right in thinking that the spar bushes shoul d be the one to use? > > > > > > hope someone out there can assist. > > > > > > Vic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435414#435414 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > &g================= > > > > > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:24 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: torque tube Tony=2C You are probably right about the rats.But to avoid a twisted fuselage=2C wh y not cleco the top in place whenever alignment is important. I didn't bond on the top until almost everything was finished. That included wings=2C ta ilplanes with balance weight=2C wall and roof lining=2C all electrics etc.K arl From: tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: torque tube My lower fuse is in a jig=2C and I can twist it slightly to get the torque tube perfect=2C BUT=2C I have no clue it will stay there when the top goes on. It hopefully should=2C but what happens if it doesn't? Does it matter i f the tail plane isn't exactly parallel to the wings? I'll go out here on a limb and say it doesn't matter a rats. The difference in a 1 degree displa cement=2C which I would consider a big error=2C or dare I say variance=2C w ould present a negligible difference to the relative wind=2C and in terms o f creating an asymmetric lift or displacement vector=2C that was noticeable =2C I just can't see it. I'd go so far as to say you could build in an erro r that was large enough to be visible when standing 10' in front of the spi nner=2C a tail plane error of let's say 5 degrees=2C and it would make bugg er all difference. It might even improve single pilot flying with asymmetri c weight distribution. Same with the wings. They were set=2C weren't they =2C when the module went in. I reckon chasing our tails for perfection is g oing to only address the glaring anomalies=2C but if your cockpit module wa s installed half correctly=2C as my kids would say=2C "just chill".RegardsT ony Renshaw Sent from my iPad On 6 Dec 2014=2C at 8:55 am=2C Karl Heindl wrote: =0A =0A =0A Vic=2C Seems to me that the tailplanes should line up with the wings=2C i.e. spar bushes.Ignore the other readings.Karl > Date: Sat=2C 6 Dec 2014 14:53:52 +0000 > From: pete@lawless.info > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: torque tube > > > Hi Vic > > The seats are part of the cockpit module glued into place as part of the > build. Very probable that it was fitted at a slight angle to the > fuselage. Should stick with the wing spar as they agree with the top of > the foot well=2C which is all pre moulded. > > Regards > > Pete > > On 06/12/14 14:32=2C fraser221 wrote: > > > > i am working on restoring a classic mono to flying condition and in the process of changing the tp11 bushes for the torque tube. > > > > i have checked the levels at 3 different points=2C the wing spar bushes =2C top of footwell forward of the firewall and on top of the seat module b ehind the headrests (on uncarpeted surface). > > > > i get a similar reading between the spar bushes and the footwell tops b ut quite different on the seat module. > > > > is this a problem or am i right in thinking that the spar bushes should be the one to use? > > > > hope someone out there can assist. > > > > Vic > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435414#435414 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > &g================= > > > =0A =0A =0A =0A D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=0A ot=3B">www.aeroelectric.com=0A books.com"">www.buildersbooks.com=0A quot=3B">www.homebuilthelp.com=0A quot=3B">www.mypilotstore.com=0A ">www.mrrace.com=0A ot=3B">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=0A a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0A D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=0A //forums.matronics.com=0A D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A ============0A ============0A ============0A ============0A =0A ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:47 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: torque tube Yes Karl, Thank god for clecos is all I can say. I hold the top on with maybe 30, but I can go from top on to top off, or visa versa in about 5 minutes. I do that. TR Sent from my iPad > On 6 Dec 2014, at 4:35 pm, Karl Heindl wrote: > > Tony, > > You are probably right about the rats. > But to avoid a twisted fuselage, why not cleco the top in place whenever a lignment is important. I didn't bond on the top until almost everything was f inished. That included wings, tailplanes with balance weight, wall and roof l ining, all electrics etc. > Karl > > From: tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: torque tube > Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 16:11:52 -0800 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > My lower fuse is in a jig, and I can twist it slightly to get the torque t ube perfect, BUT, I have no clue it will stay there when the top goes on. It hopefully should, but what happens if it doesn't? Does it matter if the tai l plane isn't exactly parallel to the wings? I'll go out here on a limb and s ay it doesn't matter a rats. The difference in a 1 degree displacement, whic h I would consider a big error, or dare I say variance, would present a negl igible difference to the relative wind, and in terms of creating an asymmetr ic lift or displacement vector, that was noticeable, I just can't see it. I' d go so far as to say you could build in an error that was large enough to b e visible when standing 10' in front of the spinner, a tail plane error of l et's say 5 degrees, and it would make bugger all difference. It might even i mprove single pilot flying with asymmetric weight distribution. > Same with the wings. They were set, weren't they, when the module went in. I reckon chasing our tails for perfection is going to only address the glar ing anomalies, but if your cockpit module was installed half correctly, as m y kids would say, "just chill". > Regards > Tony Renshaw > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 6 Dec 2014, at 8:55 am, Karl Heindl wrote: > > Vic, > > Seems to me that the tailplanes should line up with the wings, i.e. spar b ushes. > Ignore the other readings. > Karl > > > Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 14:53:52 +0000 > > From: pete@lawless.info > > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: torque tube > > > > > > Hi Vic > > > > The seats are part of the cockpit module glued into place as part of the > > build. Very probable that it was fitted at a slight angle to the > > fuselage. Should stick with the wing spar as they agree with the top of > > the foot well, which is all pre moulded. > > > > Regards > > > > Pete > > > > On 06/12/14 14:32, fraser221 wrote: > > > > > > > i am working on restoring a classic mono to flying condition and in th e process of changing the tp11 bushes for the torque tube. > > > > > > i have checked the levels at 3 different points, the wing spar bushes, top of footwell forward of the firewall and on top of the seat module behin d the headrests (on uncarpeted surface). > > > > > > i get a similar reading between the spar bushes and the footwell tops b ut quite different on the seat module. > > > > > > is this a problem or am i right in thinking that the spar bushes shoul d be the one to use? > > > > > > hope someone out there can assist. > > > > > > Vic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435414#435414 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > &g================= > > > > > > > > > > > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ot;">www.aeroelectric.com > books.com"">www.buildersbooks.com > quot;">www.homebuilthelp.com > quot;">www.mypilotstore.com > ">www.mrrace.com > ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > //forums.matronics.com > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > ========== > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com > ank">www.mrrace.com > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.