---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/23/14: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:30 AM - Re: Lithium battery's (Bob Harrison) 2. 01:37 AM - Re: Lithium battery's (Brian Davies) 3. 02:33 AM - Re: W26 aft wing socket query (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 4. 03:16 AM - Re: Lithium battery's (Rick Moss) 5. 03:45 AM - Re: Fuel cap. (spcialeffects) 6. 07:05 AM - Re: Lithium battery's (h&jeuropa) 7. 11:59 AM - Outrigger mount bolts need tightnening (graeme bird) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:30:33 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lithium battery's Hi! Pete, The first two worked satisfactorily for in excess of 10 years and were only changed to a whim one has since failed but the other is still holding charge to start my lawn mower (15 years) Not forgetting they had some demanding requirements when operating the Jabiru 6 cylinder I think about 1000 hours total to removal from the aircraft indicates that chance of failure is remote so no arrangements have been made about the worries you promote. It does have a =9CCrowbar over voltage protection fuse in the alternator circuit=9D. They are gel batteries so don=99t suffer swishing of liquids to erode plates. I would want such as Lithium type to be very proven before flying with them as an experiment. ( all statements are made in my novice opinion!) Regards and best wishes to all For Christmas and onwards into 2015, Bob Harrison G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Sent: 22 December 2014 23:30 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lithium battery's Bob, I'm curious how you dealt with the issue of the batteries being unbalanced with resulting cross-battery discharge, and protection against a potentially shorted cell aggravating the situation? Did you use isolation diodes? Cheers and merry Christmas! Pete A239 On Dec 22, 2014, at 5:32 PM, Bob Harrison wrote: Hi! David/all. IMHO it is the capability of the battery to give up it=99s power when activating the starter . I use two Odessey 13ah STARTER batteries in parallel and my high performance starter gets the 914 into motion instantly. I also have them both mounted on the passenger footwell with the delivery cable only needing to be about 12 inches long . In total it is my opinion that debates about batteries always seems to exclude the basic functions to which I refer here, so beware of short cuts saving weight and purchase prices. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG formerly Jabiru 3300engine. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Park Sent: 22 December 2014 20:34 Subject: Europa-List: Lithium battery's Any battery experts out there can comment on this battery for use in Europa 2.2kg? Dave G-LDVO Tracer 12V 16Ah LiFePO4 Battery Pack Sent from my iPad No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / 12/22/14 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 12/22/14 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:37:43 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lithium battery's Dave, That particular battery is a golf cart battery with a max. peak current rating of only 90 amps. Compare that to an Odyssey PC680, commonly used in Europas, with 520 amps peak. If you want a lithium battery with sufficient cranking capacity go for the Varley Lithium Li-16 which has 670 amps. Unfortunately they cost =C2=A3600! You get what you pay for with lithium batteries. Also, check carefully when you see a lithium battery that has built in over charge protection. Some of the cheaper models simply disconnect the battery when it gets too hot. Not a good thing in an aircraft! Your avionics will not like an alternator output that goes through the roof when the battery goes offline. I am not a battery expert but I have spent some time researching this for a racing car and have talked to various battery suppliers about their products. Brian Davies G-DDBD From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Glauser Sent: 22 December 2014 21:37 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lithium battery's Not an expert, but: LFP batteries are excellent overall, without the fire risk of some other lithium battery technologies. They tolerate being drained more deeply than lead-acid, charge more quickly, and don't have a memory if not fully charged - in fact, if you won't use it for a while it is best to leave it at, say, a 90% charge. However, they are intolerant of being overcharged, and can be ruined that way. A charge profile for a lead-acid battery, with a long float period, will kill it. Lots of people experimenting with these on boat and RV forums. dg On Dec 22, 2014 12:37 PM, "David Park" wrote: Any battery experts out there can comment on this battery for use in Europa 2.2kg? Dave G-LDVO Tracer 12V 16Ah LiFePO4 Battery Pack image1.JPG Sent from my iPad No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 12/22/14 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:58 AM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: Re: Europa-List: W26 aft wing socket query Roland I would be inclined to take a narrow hacksaw blade and simply saw through immediately under the W26. You can then reorientate it and bond it on again. Does your inspector not have strong views on this? Regards, David On 2014-12-22 21:53, Rowland Carson wrote: > > I was so pleased that on Friday I'd managed to complete the bonding of the wing pin sockets onto the fuselage sides - I had used high-power resistors clamped to each socket and fed from bench power supplies to bring the temperature of the metal parts up to 50C so that the Redux cured in 4 hours instead of 5 days, thus avoiding the need to find a warm and safe place to leave the entire aeroplane assembled for a week. > > However, when I came to drill the bolt holes through the fuselage hard-points today, I find that despite marking orientations and making several checks, I have managed to bond on the port W26 assembly upside-down - that is, with the small (3/16") bolt hole at the top instead of the bottom. > > Racking my brains about how to recover from this stupid mistake, I came up with 3 options. > > (1) Leave it as it is and use the hole at the top. I pretty soon realised this is no good, as the head of the bolt would foul the head of the pip-pin. > > (2) De-bond the socket with large amounts of heat and do the whole alignment process again, including re-making the shim. This does not appeal for lots of reasons! > > (3) Drill a new 3/16" hole at the bottom of the W26 flange, taking care to position it correctly. > > At the moment I can't see any down-side to option 3; can anyone offer any comments one way or the other? > > in friendship > > Rowland > > Links: ------ [1] http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk [2] http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson [3] http://www.aeroelectric.com [4] http://www.buildersbooks.com [5] http://www.homebuilthelp.com [6] http://www.mypilotstore.com [7] http://www.mrrace.com [8] http://www.matronics.com/contribution [9] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [10] http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:16:10 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Lithium battery's From: "Rick Moss" I'm using this Varley Red Top li5 in my Europa; http://www.varleyredtop.com/products_lithium.htm 1.2kg with 335A CCA. It is also an acceptable battery for PtF aviation use, being approved to the appropriate British Standard. It turns over my 912S just fine once the battery has warmed up. This needs to be done by running the strobes, fuel pump and other ancillaries for a minute or 2 before cranking the engine. If you try to start it directly, the cranking speed is too low to start, however this warms the battery so it will then go immediately. Having only a 5.5Ah capacity, you need to be aware that charging phones/ipads etc when the engine is not running should only be done with caution... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436037#436037 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:45:59 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel cap. From: "spcialeffects" I have this one available if it's any good to you. It's non locking and I have both the cap and receptacle XS Aircraft up to 2003: The XS used another cap with a tapered edge and threading on the boss. The cap itself measured 70mm and was tapered from the edge to the rubber O ring. These were discontinued in about 2003. The cap was sold in locking and non-locking and its part number was SPRL -S-S if memory serves. These are no longer in production. Note the tapered edge on the side of the cap. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436039#436039 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:49 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Lithium battery's From: "h&jeuropa" Their website indicates that there is a built in battery management system. That is very important. Because of the BMS, I say it should be very similar to the Earth X battery we're using with no problem. I wrote an article about ours that should be in the next Europa Flyer. Be sure your electrical system has a over voltage protection device. And we think it it important to have some sort of electrical system monitoring as provided by most EFIS systems. Otherwise a voltmeter and ammeter. Jim & Heather Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436050#436050 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:48 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger mount bolts need tightnening From: "graeme bird" Just doing an inspection for the third annual at 150 hours, its the second year I have had to tweak up the six bolts/nuts for each leg - does anyone else see this? I guess its a high stress point and any tiny movement may seek to work on stiff nuts - maybe some loctite would help? Otherwise it seems to be holding up very well, carb bowls as clean as can be and the magnetic plug. Merry Christmas all. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 135 hours 32 months on the Mono g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436061#436061 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.