Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:37 AM - Re: Tie-down points (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
2. 12:40 AM - Re: Fuselage join (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
3. 05:52 AM - Re: Fuselage join (William Daniell)
4. 06:30 AM - Re: Fuselage join (Greg Fuchs)
5. 09:02 AM - Re: Fuselage join (Fred Klein)
6. 12:03 PM - Re: Fuselage join (Greg Fuchs)
7. 12:35 PM - Re: Fuselage join (Fred Klein)
8. 12:38 PM - Re: Fuselage join (david park)
9. 04:17 PM - Re: Fuselage join (Greg Fuchs)
10. 04:31 PM - Re: Fuselage join (Fred Klein)
11. 04:38 PM - Re: Fuselage join (Robert Borger)
12. 05:08 PM - Re: Fuselage join (Greg Fuchs)
13. 05:09 PM - Re: Fuselage join (rparigoris)
14. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage join (Fred Klein)
15. 05:55 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage join (Bud Yerly)
16. 09:39 PM - Stall Warning System installation (tonyvaccarella)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Tie-down points |
Tim, That is how most UK monos tie down in my experience, with a rope
round the mainwheel fork and one round tail spring. One potential lurgy
worth mentioning is that in very windy conditions my brake fluid line
was cut by the tie down rope, so only put that rope round port side of
U/C fork, well away from brake line. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
On 2015-01-06 16:48, Timward wrote:
>
> Happy New Year Everyone.
> I have a Monowheel Classic and tie it down by securing the large main wheel and
tail wheel only. The outriggers should prevent the wings from lifting. Therefore
no tie down points are required on the wings.
> Thoughts?
> Just saw for the first time my aircraft flying from the ground after giving my
son a rating to fly it!
> Wonderful sight and such a proud father.
> Now there is a cheaper way for him to build up his hours!
> Weather dependent of course!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Ward
> 12 Waiwetu Street
> Fendalton,
> Christchurch, 8052
> New Zealand.
>
> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
>
> Ph 64 3 3515166
> Mob 0210640221
as they
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Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage join |
William, I don't know that it matters much. It is in fact mentioned in
the early part of the build manual but easily overlooked. I know of two
very serious allergic reactions, one leading to the guy giving up the
build
Regards, David
On 2015-01-06 23:01, William Daniell wrote:
> thanks...go faster stripe is a great idea.
>
> As for gel coal thanks for warning ...wash with soap or solvent?
> On Jan 6, 2015 5:59 PM, <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> wrote:
>
> William, You can of course stick a go fast stripe over the join line, but if
your 'amour propre' insists on a perfect finish then fill any low areas and sand
it all down to a perfect finish. You should in any case sand all the gel coat
surface down to complete matness without the smallest bit of refective surface
visible, to give the optimum key to whatever paint system you plan to use.
One word of warning on which: The release agent used in the original gel coat
mould is a strong allergy inducer. Make very sure you have washed all gel coated
surfaces very thoroughly before you start sanding them and wear a good mask.
You might be totally immune to normal fibreglass dust but get caught out by
the gel coat dust which is a more sinister animal!
>
> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>
> On 2015-01-06 22:31, Fred Klein wrote:
>
> On Jan 6, 2015, at 11:03 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have a visible join the upper half lip being slightly proud as a result sliding
down over the bottom half. The joint is good and the difference is slight.
>
> What is the normal practice for the visible join line between the fuze halves?
Does one have to sand down to the epoxy or can one fill on top of sanded the
gel coat?
> Will...I had the opposite problem...i.e., my lower half was proud, and problem
solved by adding spacers at each cleco and thickening the Redux bed. For your
case, i'd of course remove the gel coat along the edge of the upper half and
rough up the gel coat on the lower half; I don't think it's necessary to remove
the entire gel coat in order to add the requisite filler. Perhaps others w/
more knowledge than I will make other recommendations.
>
> Fred
>
> ectric.com [1]
> ">www.buildersbooks.com [2]
> builthelp.com [3]
> lotstore.com [4]
> m
> .matronics.com/contribution [5]
> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [6]
> ics.com [7]
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
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tp://forums.matronics.com
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Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage join |
AS it happens I washed the fuze down with soap and water and thus far no
allergic reaction.
I will have to remember to do the wings...or get the paint shop to do it
:-).
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 3:40 AM, <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
> William, I don't know that it matters much. It is in fact mentioned in the
> early part of the build manual but easily overlooked. I know of two very
> serious allergic reactions, one leading to the guy giving up the build
>
> Regards, David
>
>
> On 2015-01-06 23:01, William Daniell wrote:
>
> thanks...go faster stripe is a great idea.
>
> As for gel coal thanks for warning ...wash with soap or solvent?
> On Jan 6, 2015 5:59 PM, <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> William, You can of course stick a go fast stripe over the join line,
>> but if your 'amour propre' insists on a perfect finish then fill any low
>> areas and sand it all down to a perfect finish. You should in any case sand
>> all the gel coat surface down to complete matness without the smallest bit
>> of refective surface visible, to give the optimum key to whatever paint
>> system you plan to use. One word of warning on which: The release agent
>> used in the original gel coat mould is a strong allergy inducer. Make very
>> sure you have washed all gel coated surfaces very thoroughly before you
>> start sanding them and wear a good mask. You might be totally immune to
>> normal fibreglass dust but get caught out by the gel coat dust which is a
>> more sinister animal!
>>
>> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2015-01-06 22:31, Fred Klein wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2015, at 11:03 AM, William Daniell <
>> wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have a visible join the upper half lip being slightly proud as a
>> result sliding down over the bottom half. The joint is good and the
>> difference is slight.
>>
>> What is the normal practice for the visible join line between the fuze
>> halves? Does one have to sand down to the epoxy or can one fill on top of
>> sanded the gel coat?
>>
>> Will...I had the opposite problem...i.e., my lower half was proud, and
>> problem solved by adding spacers at each cleco and thickening the Redux
>> bed. For your case, i'd of course remove the gel coat along the edge of the
>> upper half and rough up the gel coat on the lower half; I don't think it's
>> necessary to remove the entire gel coat in order to add the requisite
>> filler. Perhaps others w/ more knowledge than I will make other
>> recommendations.
>>
>> Fred
>>
>> *
>>
>> ectric.com <http://ectric.com>
>> ">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
>> builthelp.com <http://builthelp.com>
>> lotstore.com <http://lotstore.com>
>> m
>> .matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution>
>> ttp://www.matron <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>ics.com <http://ics.com>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>
>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com>
>> ank">www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>
> ectric.com <http://ectric.com>
> ">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
> builthelp.com <http://builthelp.com>
> lotstore.com <http://lotstore.com>
> m
> .matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution>
> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
> ics.com <http://ics.com>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 4
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Fred,
My problem was opposite of Wills and more like yours, where the lower
fuselage skin surface was proud of the upper, and had to add spacers to the
lower fuselage jog at the clecos to hold the upper skin surface out off the
jog a bit. I have not glued the upper fuse to the lower yet, so here's my
question.
The thin fiberglass spacer discs were stacked one atop the other, until the
upper and lower fuse were in the same plane (no compensation for glue
thickness). My plan is to mix as little flox into the glue as possible to
keep it as viscous, but prevent running. However, I am still concerned the
thickness of the glue might mess up the 'calibration' that was done.
How did it go for you (or anyone else doing a similar procedure)? Did you
have to back compensate a bit?
Regards,
Greg
On Jan 6, 2015, at 11:03 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
wrote:
I have a visible join the upper half lip being slightly proud as a result
sliding down over the bottom half. The joint is good and the difference is
slight.
What is the normal practice for the visible join line between the fuze
halves? Does one have to sand down to the epoxy or can one fill on top of
sanded the gel coat?
Will.I had the opposite problem.i.e., my lower half was proud, and problem
solved by adding spacers at each cleco and thickening the Redux bed. For
your case, i'd of course remove the gel coat along the edge of the upper
half and rough up the gel coat on the lower half; I don't think it's
necessary to remove the entire gel coat in order to add the requisite
filler. Perhaps others w/ more knowledge than I will make other
recommendations.
Fred
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage join |
> On Jan 7, 2015, at 6:29 AM, Greg Fuchs <gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
> My problem was opposite of Wills and more like yours, where the lower
fuselage skin surface was proud of the upper, and had to add spacers to
the lower fuselage jog at the clecos to hold the upper skin surface out
off the jog a bit. I have not glued the upper fuse to the lower yet, so
here's my question.
>
> The thin fiberglass spacer discs were stacked one atop the other,
until the upper and lower fuse were in the same plane (no compensation
for glue thickness). My plan is to mix as little flox into the glue as
possible to keep it as viscous, but prevent running. However, I am
still concerned the thickness of the glue might mess up the
'calibration' that was done.
>
> How did it go for you (or anyone else doing a similar procedure)? Did
you have to back compensate a bit?
Greg,
I used two thicknesses of spacers (regular, and thin [T]) to which I
used 5 min. epoxy to bond to flangewhen mixing the Redux, I set
a bit aside before adding flox and dabbed pure Redux onto each spacer.
When applying the stiff, flox=99ed Redux, I attempted to keep it a
tad away from the spacers, relying upon the =9Csquishing=9D
to fill any voidsmy clecos were spaced 6=9D apart...it
seemed to work AOK.
F.
Message 6
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Thanks Fred, it sounds like I am Good to go as it sits....when the time
comes.
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage join |
> On Jan 7, 2015, at 12:02 PM, Greg Fuchs <gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
> Thanks Fred, it sounds like I am Good to go as it sits....when the
time comes.
Gregone thing to look out for:
Because I fitted and removed top from bottom so many times, I found that
some of the clecos would pull thru the bottom flange.
This necessitated epoxying small squares of scrap FG to the inside face
of the flange and drilling fresh holes which the clecoes would grip
against.
F.
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage join |
When i did mine we had applicators and one mixer. Any joint line was later v
anished with filler. Thanks to Nev Eyre.
Dave L-LDVO
Sent from my iPhone
> On 7 Jan 2015, at 20:02, Greg Fuchs <gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks Fred, it sounds like I am Good to go as it sits....when the time co
mes.
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 9
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Dave: Yeah, many hands will be needed for sure, ...or if masochistic work at
leisure in cold temps and heat the place up to cure the glue :)
Fred: I have a number of holes that have pulled thru already that will need
the procedure. Will have to remember to use a proper-size drill bit to look
for ones that are close to failing, to prevent 'gotchyas' during the
procedure.
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of david park
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuselage join
When i did mine we had applicators and one mixer. Any joint line was later
vanished with filler. Thanks to Nev Eyre.
Dave L-LDVO
Sent from my iPhone
On 7 Jan 2015, at 20:02, Greg Fuchs <gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net> wrote:
Thanks Fred, it sounds like I am Good to go as it sits....when the time
comes.
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage join |
> On Jan 7, 2015, at 4:16 PM, Greg Fuchs <gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
> Fred: I have a number of holes that have pulled thru already that will
need the procedure. Will have to remember to use a proper-size drill bit
to look for ones that are close to failing, to prevent 'gotchyas' during
the procedure.
Greg...Amen to thatmy point exactlygood luck, F.
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage join |
Guys,
You can also use a small washer to prevent the cleco from pulling
through the fiberglass. Just be sure to grease it and the cleco well or
you=99ll play heck getting them out again ;^)
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Jan 7, 2015, at 6:16 PM, Greg Fuchs <gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net>
wrote:
Dave: Yeah, many hands will be needed for sure, ...or if masochistic
work at leisure in cold temps and heat the place up to cure the glue :)
Fred: I have a number of holes that have pulled thru already that will
need the procedure. Will have to remember to use a proper-size drill bit
to look for ones that are close to failing, to prevent 'gotchyas' during
the procedure.
Message 12
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Yes, but the mini troll that I hire to stay inside the fuselage while the
clecos are being inserted in the fuse-join procedure would be really happy
for the extra hazard pay for the bumps, blood splatter and bruises he may
aquire for doing that job :O
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Borger
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuselage join
Guys,
You can also use a small washer to prevent the cleco from pulling through
the fiberglass. Just be sure to grease it and the cleco well or you'll play
heck getting them out again ;^)
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Jan 7, 2015, at 6:16 PM, Greg Fuchs <gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net> wrote:
Dave: Yeah, many hands will be needed for sure, ...or if masochistic work at
leisure in cold temps and heat the place up to cure the glue :)
Fred: I have a number of holes that have pulled thru already that will need
the procedure. Will have to remember to use a proper-size drill bit to look
for ones that are close to failing, to prevent 'gotchyas' during the
procedure.
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage join |
Hi Group
As far as the fuse seam joint: "awe, just screw it"!
I used Clecos for a gazillion on and offs, but screws that captured very nice.
I detailed my top bond on, could save a bunch of bullets in your foot:
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=35521
(3 pages)
There are more notes than this so study pics and my notes. Here are a few:
** pay attention for need to trim sternpost (easy to overlook)
** as I noted use enough fasteners, you can see recovery (I found out when I cut
vent hole)
** my kit was missing foam and second layer of glass on the inboard side, so I
added foam and glass
** My fin ribs fit terrible, so I mutilated and made them fit
** poor fit starboard side corner fixed by "dolphin" repair
Good luck.
Top bond on was a fun part of build! Enjoy.
Sincerely
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436762#436762
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage join |
> On Jan 7, 2015, at 5:09 PM, rparigoris <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
wrote:
>
> Top bond on was a fun part of build! Enjoy.
=85and=85this enjoyment multiplies many times over, realizable only in
retrospect, by the extent to which top-bonding is delayed until EVERY
conceivable installation anticipated aft of the =93D=94 bulkhead is
complete...
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage join |
Time for my two cents:
Bob Berube introduced me to using the self tapping screws but caution is
necessary.
To fit the top I use US 3/32 inch clecos. This type of cleco does not pull
through as easily since the lower flange is four layers. After fitting the
top for the fourth time or more, sometimes I have to upgrade to 1/8 inch.
We have probably close to 500 clecos so no big deal for us.
For those using the British style temporary fastener:
I will use washers with the British style fastener as the lip on these
fasteners deteriorate the hole in fiberglass pretty quick. If I have to put
on a washer, I have to prep the area, and I glue the washer on with super
glue. Lasts a long time. Gluing is all about the prep. I wash the whole
kit first with TSP or detergent to remove the release wax. Then I clean the
joint with acetone and scotch brite. If you sand, and it makes dust, it's
ready to glue. No dust on sanding, bad joint.
Like Ron and many others, I will screw on my top on final, because I can put
the screw in and pull down until the skins come to a nice fit. Don't pull
the screw down hard and force the two skins to pull down so hard as to
squeeze all the glue out. Nor do you want the screw to pull the outer skin
away from the inner. It's a technique. Be careful. Screws are the same
principle as the screw type temp fastener, which can be pulled down too
tight as well.
Technique:
To get a nice fit, and get control of my joint, I open up my top side holes
a bit to allow the screw to spin and not grip, and then allow the self
tapping screw threads to bite into the lower so I can adjust the skin pull
down with careful screw gun use...
As for fit. I try to keep the sides level, but don't worry. Just fill it.
The sides are flat on the kit, and I like to fill the sides then block a
nice curvy rounded side. If the filler ever gets beyond 3/32 inch, consider
putting a layer of 2 oz. glass over the filler. Peel ply and its ready for
a bit more filler... No cracking. If you are worrying about your walkway
area showing cracks around the wing fillet to skin, we lay one layer of
carbon from just behind the wing spar out to the first forward rib to
stiffen the skin, and to prevent cracks in the filler which is scary seeing
cracks in your wing. Filler is a necessary evil in a composite airplane.
Learn the technique. I started learning to fill by doing my wheel pants. I
have found that nice wheel pants take as long to fill as the fuselage. All
those curvy fillets are a pain.
Have a happy new year you all.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
--------------------------------------------------
From: "rparigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 8:09 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuselage join
> <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
> Hi Group
>
> As far as the fuse seam joint: "awe, just screw it"!
>
> I used Clecos for a gazillion on and offs, but screws that captured very
> nice.
>
> I detailed my top bond on, could save a bunch of bullets in your foot:
> http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=35521
> (3 pages)
>
> There are more notes than this so study pics and my notes. Here are a few:
> ** pay attention for need to trim sternpost (easy to overlook)
> ** as I noted use enough fasteners, you can see recovery (I found out when
> I cut vent hole)
> ** my kit was missing foam and second layer of glass on the inboard side,
> so I added foam and glass
> ** My fin ribs fit terrible, so I mutilated and made them fit
> ** poor fit starboard side corner fixed by "dolphin" repair
>
> Good luck.
> Top bond on was a fun part of build! Enjoy.
> Sincerely
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436762#436762
>
>
>
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Subject: | Stall Warning System installation |
Hi all,
At the risk of sounding simple - I have a Europa Classic Wing that needs completion
and would like to know where to find information about installing the Stall
Warning on this wing.
Information on the web has only shown stall warning installs for XS wings.
Can anyone help please?
Best regards,
Tony Vaccarella
Builder A011 (from USA)
Sydney Aust
--------
Tony Vaccarella
Mascot NSW 2020
Sydney Australia
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436772#436772
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