---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/10/15: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:27 AM - Re: Classic exhaust tubes (Pete Lawless) 2. 01:25 AM - Re: Classic exhaust tubes (jonathanmilbank) 3. 02:02 AM - Re: Re: Classic exhaust tubes (Pete Lawless) 4. 02:05 AM - Re: Re: Classic exhaust tubes (Rowland Carson) 5. 04:53 AM - Re: Re: Classic exhaust tubes (Pete Lawless) 6. 07:11 AM - What is this? () 7. 08:47 AM - uk annual bash , what happened? (graeme bird) 8. 08:55 AM - TU 02 (William Daniell) 9. 09:12 AM - Happy new year! (AUVRAY Michel) 10. 09:38 AM - Re: TU 02 (Rowland Carson) 11. 10:35 AM - Re: Re: Classic exhaust tubes (Fred Klein) 12. 10:46 AM - Re: Re: Classic exhaust tubes (Donald Cameron) 13. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: Classic exhaust tubes (Bob Harrison) 14. 02:18 PM - Re: Classic exhaust tubes (tennant) 15. 03:10 PM - Re: Happy new year! (jonathanmilbank) 16. 03:23 PM - Re: Happy new year! (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 17. 04:02 PM - Re: Classic exhaust tubes (jonathanmilbank) 18. 05:27 PM - Re: Happy new year! (Robert Borger) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:53 AM PST US From: Pete Lawless Subject: Re: Europa-List: Classic exhaust tubes Hi Jonathan No spare bits but a similar problem. I originally had a strap round the rear silencer box supported off the engine frame. It did not seem to help as the original Europa mild steel front stub cracked. I replaced the whole system with a second hand stainless one I bought from Nigel Charles after he converted his aeroplane to XS front end. That was one of the early CTK Engineering products. All four of the flanges cracked. The quality of the welding seemed poor. CTK have since made me a new set of 4 stubs, look to be much better quality. They have been on for about 150 hours and so far ok. Regards Pete G-RMAC Claasic #109 On 10/01/15 03:03, jonathanmilbank wrote: > > Does anyone in the UK have good condition exhaust tubes, stainless or mild steel, which they'd be willing to part with? My aircraft is UK kit #47, completed in July '97 and has the original design of double silencers mated together at right angles. > > I'm getting annoyed by the number of times that mine have cracked at all the flanges attaching to the exhaust ports, albeit at different times. Is there a good fix for this? Someone once wrote that mild is less prone to cracking than stainless. And what about extra suspension support for the silencers? > > Please pm me if you like. Thanks > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436831#436831 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:25:45 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Classic exhaust tubes From: "jonathanmilbank" Pete. Great for me to get a quick response. I don't know if you're aware of this history, but John Tye builder #1 asked for the silencer to hang a little lower and so after my stainless silencer was returned from having stainless tubes fitted to replace the original mild ones, it too hung a little lower. I wasn't made aware of this and the silencer's heat scorched my cowl, which necessitated repairs back in 1998 if I recall correctly. Anyhow my question is whether you found that CTK Engineering's replacement tubes caused your silencer to hang differently. Also I'd be grateful if you could provide me with their contact details and an idea of the price you paid for the 4 stainless tubes, if possible. By the way I still think that the Classic front end looks more stylish than the XS and my only concern with it is the necessity to remove the engine in order to gain access to the starter motor. After converting to tricycle legs, I sometimes wonder whether the XS bottom engine cowl is any easier to remove and get past the nose wheel leg. I have to wrap the leg and two propeller blades in padding to protect it and the cowl. Regards, Jonathan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436833#436833 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:46 AM PST US From: Pete Lawless Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Classic exhaust tubes Hi Jonathan I did not notice any difference in the position of the silencer box. Contact is Chris Piper who is very helpful. http://www.cktengineering.com 4ab Hartnoll Business Centre Post Hill Tiverton Devon, UK EX16 4NG e-mail: chrispiper@cktengineering.com Skype: chris.piper1 T [00 44] (0)1884 242211 F [00 44] (0)1884 250500 I don't have a record of cost, but I think it was over 200. Regards Pete On 10/01/15 09:25, jonathanmilbank wrote: > > Pete. Great for me to get a quick response. I don't know if you're aware of this history, but John Tye builder #1 asked for the silencer to hang a little lower and so after my stainless silencer was returned from having stainless tubes fitted to replace the original mild ones, it too hung a little lower. I wasn't made aware of this and the silencer's heat scorched my cowl, which necessitated repairs back in 1998 if I recall correctly. > > Anyhow my question is whether you found that CTK Engineering's replacement tubes caused your silencer to hang differently. Also I'd be grateful if you could provide me with their contact details and an idea of the price you paid for the 4 stainless tubes, if possible. > > By the way I still think that the Classic front end looks more stylish than the XS and my only concern with it is the necessity to remove the engine in order to gain access to the starter motor. After converting to tricycle legs, I sometimes wonder whether the XS bottom engine cowl is any easier to remove and get past the nose wheel leg. I have to wrap the leg and two propeller blades in padding to protect it and the cowl. > > Regards, > > Jonathan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436833#436833 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:05:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Classic exhaust tubes From: Rowland Carson On 10 Jan 2015, at 09:25, jonathanmilbank wrote: > I still think that the Classic front end looks more stylish than the XS Jonathan - Im voting with you on that one, and Im sure Im not alone! The XS cowl never looked right to me, with that box hanging under it like an afterthought. I have opted for Nevilles cowl which looks much better. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/index.php | LAA #016532 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:19 AM PST US From: Pete Lawless Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Classic exhaust tubes HI Jonathan Just remembered I returned the original exhaust stubs to CTK so they could match them - hence no change in silencer position. Pete On 10/01/15 09:25, jonathanmilbank wrote: > > Pete. Great for me to get a quick response. I don't know if you're aware of this history, but John Tye builder #1 asked for the silencer to hang a little lower and so after my stainless silencer was returned from having stainless tubes fitted to replace the original mild ones, it too hung a little lower. I wasn't made aware of this and the silencer's heat scorched my cowl, which necessitated repairs back in 1998 if I recall correctly. > > Anyhow my question is whether you found that CTK Engineering's replacement tubes caused your silencer to hang differently. Also I'd be grateful if you could provide me with their contact details and an idea of the price you paid for the 4 stainless tubes, if possible. > > By the way I still think that the Classic front end looks more stylish than the XS and my only concern with it is the necessity to remove the engine in order to gain access to the starter motor. After converting to tricycle legs, I sometimes wonder whether the XS bottom engine cowl is any easier to remove and get past the nose wheel leg. I have to wrap the leg and two propeller blades in padding to protect it and the cowl. > > Regards, > > Jonathan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436833#436833 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:25 AM PST US From: Subject: Europa-List: What is this? I got it twice on the January 15 email.... Does it conform to the requested behavioural limits sent by our esteemed leader and list digest host? Methinks it ranks up there with whole digest lists as backup material. S'cuse me Ferg C-FFGG ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:57 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: uk annual bash , what happened? From: "graeme bird" I am away on a works bash, spa, meal , breakfast etc. Its got me wondering re the Europa one last had near Daventry and very enjoyable. What happened to them? We could get Brian to tell us about the laa , maybe some CAA safety/airspace bod? -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 135 hours 32 months on the Mono g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436839#436839 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:53 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: TU 02 From: William Daniell I have an aluminium tube TU 02 which I can identify. Does anyone know that this is for? thanks Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:44 AM PST US From: AUVRAY Michel Subject: Europa-List: Happy new year! For Europa's community Fly safe for 2015 Michel AUVRAY ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: TU 02 From: Rowland Carson On 10 Jan 2015, at 16:54, William Daniell wrote: > I have an aluminium tube TU 02 which I can identify. Does anyone know that this is for? William - if its 2024 T3 - .5" x .035" x 28 then its TU2, which is cut into 2 pieces to make the aileron link rods which connect the outboard bellcrank to the aileron. See the Manual chapter 9 page 3. I have found it a bit annoying that the part numbering sometimes has a leading zero (eg EURO01) and sometimes does not. I guess whoever assigned the part numbers thought there might be less than 10 of the parts that dont have a leading zero. Not always consistent (eg TU1, TU2, TU21RM, TU23RM). I couldnt initially find TU 02 or TU02 in my inventory database, because it was called out as TU2. Hope this helps. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:51 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Classic exhaust tubes > On Jan 10, 2015, at 2:04 AM, Rowland Carson wrote: > > I have opted for Neville=92s cowl which looks much better. Rowland=85AHA=85what a treat that will be=85the pics I=92ve seen of Neville=92s cowl are exquisite=85feel free to refer to your aircraft as a =93Europa MkIII=94. Best, Fred ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Classic exhaust tubes From: Donald Cameron Hi Jonathan If your needing contact details for CKT I should have them in amongst my paperwork. I purchased a complete stainless steel exhaust system for my XS. i can't comment on the classic, as i have an XS. I did opt for Nev's firewall forward kit with engine frame and cowls. Kind regards Donald Europa Xs G-PUPY EGEO(oban) Sent from my iPhone > On 10 Jan 2015, at 09:25, jonathanmilbank wrote: > > > Pete. Great for me to get a quick response. I don't know if you're aware of this history, but John Tye builder #1 asked for the silencer to hang a little lower and so after my stainless silencer was returned from having stainless tubes fitted to replace the original mild ones, it too hung a little lower. I wasn't made aware of this and the silencer's heat scorched my cowl, which necessitated repairs back in 1998 if I recall correctly. > > Anyhow my question is whether you found that CTK Engineering's replacement tubes caused your silencer to hang differently. Also I'd be grateful if you could provide me with their contact details and an idea of the price you paid for the 4 stainless tubes, if possible. > > By the way I still think that the Classic front end looks more stylish than the XS and my only concern with it is the necessity to remove the engine in order to gain access to the starter motor. After converting to tricycle legs, I sometimes wonder whether the XS bottom engine cowl is any easier to remove and get past the nose wheel leg. I have to wrap the leg and two propeller blades in padding to protect it and the cowl. > > Regards, > > Jonathan > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436833#436833 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:21 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Classic exhaust tubes Hi! Donald, .......and do you expect that stainless material is a stress suitable material to withstand the vibration and fatigue issues? Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG . -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donald Cameron Sent: 10 January 2015 18:46 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Classic exhaust tubes --> Hi Jonathan If your needing contact details for CKT I should have them in amongst my paperwork. I purchased a complete stainless steel exhaust system for my XS. i can't comment on the classic, as i have an XS. I did opt for Nev's firewall forward kit with engine frame and cowls. Kind regards Donald Europa Xs G-PUPY EGEO(oban) Sent from my iPhone > On 10 Jan 2015, at 09:25, jonathanmilbank wrote: > > --> > > Pete. Great for me to get a quick response. I don't know if you're aware of this history, but John Tye builder #1 asked for the silencer to hang a little lower and so after my stainless silencer was returned from having stainless tubes fitted to replace the original mild ones, it too hung a little lower. I wasn't made aware of this and the silencer's heat scorched my cowl, which necessitated repairs back in 1998 if I recall correctly. > > Anyhow my question is whether you found that CTK Engineering's replacement tubes caused your silencer to hang differently. Also I'd be grateful if you could provide me with their contact details and an idea of the price you paid for the 4 stainless tubes, if possible. > > By the way I still think that the Classic front end looks more stylish than the XS and my only concern with it is the necessity to remove the engine in order to gain access to the starter motor. After converting to tricycle legs, I sometimes wonder whether the XS bottom engine cowl is any easier to remove and get past the nose wheel leg. I have to wrap the leg and two propeller blades in padding to protect it and the cowl. > > Regards, > > Jonathan > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436833#436833 > > > > > > > > > > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:47 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Classic exhaust tubes From: "tennant" Bob, You forgot the temperature as well! The best, affordable, material for exhaust applications up to about 900 deg.C are Type 321 or 347 Stainless steel. The Titanium or Niobium additions suppress corrosion at these temperatures. A proper analysis and beefing up of the points where fatigue can realize itself can produce an exhaust that will last the lifetime of the aircraft. Unfortunately, over the years, Europa seem to have used some suppliers that were cheaper but not better! Barry Tennant -------- Barry Tennant D-EHBT At EDLM - Germany Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436847#436847 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:20 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Happy new year! From: "jonathanmilbank" Thank you Michel. Have no doubt that the thoughts of millions of people around the world are with the people of France at this difficult time. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436849#436849 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:12 PM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Happy new year! Merci Michelle! Lovely picture=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________ ___________=0A From: AUVRAY Michel =0ATo: europa-list@matr onics.com =0ASent: Saturday, 10 January 2015, 17:11=0ASubject: Europa-List: Happy new year!=0A =0A=0A=0AFor Europa's community=0A=0AFly safe for 2015 =0A=0AMichel AUVRAY ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:12 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Classic exhaust tubes From: "jonathanmilbank" pete(at)lawless.info. Pete, thanks for the address and contact details, which I'll keep for future reference. Everyone else please also accept my thanks for the benefit of your knowledge and expertise. After flying for about 10 hours with two narrow metal straps connecting the sides of the silencer solidly to the lower engine bearer frame bolts and finding that switching off the engine was somewhat harsher than before (tooth-rattling clang/thud), I've now substituted the metal straps with two very strong micro-light (USA ultralight) exhaust springs, pulled to about 20lbs tension each side. Hopefully this compromise will make the silencer exert less stress on the exhaust tubes and not be so harsh when stopping the engine. Only time will tell whether this suspension method results in fewer cracked tube flanges. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436851#436851 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Happy new year! From: Robert Borger Michel, Wonderful Picture! Our hearts and prayers go out to the people of France. Best wishes for the New Year. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob & Maureen Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jan 10, 2015, at 11:11 AM, AUVRAY Michel wrote: For Europa's community Fly safe for 2015 Michel AUVRAY ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.