---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/19/15: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:38 AM - Re: Knowing the actual fuel level? (Rick Moss) 2. 05:22 AM - Re: Knowing the actual fuel level? (Remi Guerner) 3. 06:06 AM - Re: Knowing the actual fuel level? (rampil) 4. 06:21 AM - Re: Re: Knowing the actual fuel level? (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 5. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Knowing the actual fuel level? (david park) 6. 08:46 AM - Re: Re: Knowing the actual fuel level? (Karl Heindl) 7. 10:57 AM - Re: Re: Knowing the actual fuel level? (Paul McAllister) 8. 01:24 PM - Nose Wheel Bearing (Alan Carter) 9. 07:06 PM - Water Coolant Sensor location? (Martin Tuck) 10. 07:19 PM - Re: Water Coolant Sensor location? (Robert Borger) 11. 08:22 PM - Re: Water Coolant Sensor location? (Martin Tuck) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:38:20 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Knowing the actual fuel level? From: "Rick Moss" Thanks all. Does anyone know the calibration procedure for the Avelec? May be worth a try in the first instance. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439581#439581 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:23 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Knowing the actual fuel level? From: "Remi Guerner" Rick, My Avelec fuel gauge has always been very unreliable. I scrap it and installed a resistive unit long ago. Remi Guerner F-PGKL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439583#439583 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:59 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Knowing the actual fuel level? From: "rampil" The Europa fuel measurement options are all problematic. The original sight gauge was difficult to read and inaccurate. The sight gauge I installed between the seats still has two very significant problems. One: the vent for the sight tube of necessity must have some bends in the tubing, allowing fuel to become trapped and preventing the gauge from free venting. This occurs when line boys are over exuberant about filling up the filler neck and flooding the vent line (which I have opening into the top of the filler neck). Trapped fuel then causes the sight tube to read inches low. Two: The curious saddle bag design of the tank allows easy, yet undetectable shifting of what fuel you may believe to be in the reserve side into the main, potentially leaving nothing for reserve. This has happened after some gentleman macro and even after some steep turns in the presence of bumpy air. The capacitive measurement systems are all non-starters where we are fortunate to have choices in fuel (av vs. mo-gas). The remediation I have been playing with involves two honeywell pressure transducers at the bottom of each fuel bung feeding an Arduino with a touch sensitive LCD screen. Not quite finished for publication, but the thought is that it should provide legible, filtered, reliable fuel weight on each side, calibrated to the funky shape of the tank. Two design decisions I made in the prototype may come back to force a revision: I did not use differential transducers because 1) the limited altitude range I normally fly at would lead to a trivial error by neglecting head space pressure (also very difficult to find gasoline-tolerant differential transducers), and 2) by installing the transducers at a tee in the bungs, there will be a small artifactual pressure drop which varies with fuel flow. When I finish testing, I will let you know. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439585#439585 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2434_115.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:51 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Knowing the actual fuel level? Ira =0A=0Athat has the potential to be a brilliant solution.=0AGraham=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: rampil =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, 19 March 2015, 13:05 =0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: Knowing the actual fuel level?=0A =0A=0A--> Eu ropa-List message posted by: "rampil" =0A=0AThe Europ a fuel measurement options are all problematic.=0A=0AThe original sight gau ge was difficult to read and inaccurate. The sight =0Agauge I installed bet ween the seats still has two very significant problems.=0AOne: the vent for the sight tube of necessity must have some bends in the=0Atubing, allowing fuel to become trapped and preventing the gauge from =0Afree venting. This occurs when line boys are over exuberant about =0Afilling up the filler ne ck and flooding the vent line (which I have opening=0Ainto the top of the f iller neck).- Trapped fuel then causes the sight tube to=0Aread inches lo w.=0ATwo: The curious saddle bag design of the tank allows easy, yet =0Aund etectable shifting of what fuel you may believe to be in the reserve =0Asid e into the main, potentially leaving nothing for reserve. This has happened =0Aafter some gentleman macro and even after some steep turns in the =0Apre sence of bumpy air.=0A=0AThe capacitive measurement systems are all non-sta rters where we are=0Afortunate to have choices in fuel (av vs. mo-gas).=0A =0AThe remediation I have been playing with involves two honeywell pressure =0Atransducers at the bottom of each fuel bung feeding an Arduino with a=0A touch sensitive LCD screen. Not quite finished for publication, but the =0A thought is that it should provide legible, filtered, reliable fuel weight o n=0Aeach side, calibrated to the funky shape of the tank.=0A=0ATwo design d ecisions I made in the prototype may come back to force a =0Arevision: I di d not use differential transducers because 1) the limited =0Aaltitude range I normally fly at would lead to a trivial error by neglecting=0Ahead space pressure (also very difficult to find gasoline-tolerant differential=0Atra nsducers), and 2) by installing the transducers at a tee in the =0Abungs, t here will be a small artifactual pressure drop which varies with=0Afuel flo w.=0A=0AWhen I finish testing, I will let you know.=0A=0A--------=0AIra N22 4XS=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics .com/viewtopic.php?p=439585#439585=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp: =- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle ======== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:17 AM PST US From: david park Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Knowing the actual fuel level? Sounds good news waiting for further progress. Dave G-LDVO Sent from my iPhone > On 19 Mar 2015, at 13:18, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote: > > Ira > that has the potential to be a brilliant solution. > Graham > > From: rampil > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, 19 March 2015, 13:05 > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Knowing the actual fuel level? > > > The Europa fuel measurement options are all problematic. > > The original sight gauge was difficult to read and inaccurate. The sight > gauge I installed between the seats still has two very significant problem s. > One: the vent for the sight tube of necessity must have some bends in the > tubing, allowing fuel to become trapped and preventing the gauge from > free venting. This occurs when line boys are over exuberant about > filling up the filler neck and flooding the vent line (which I have openin g > into the top of the filler neck). Trapped fuel then causes the sight tube to > read inches low. > Two: The curious saddle bag design of the tank allows easy, yet > undetectable shifting of what fuel you may believe to be in the reserve > side into the main, potentially leaving nothing for reserve. This has happ ened > after some gentleman macro and even after some steep turns in the > presence of bumpy air. > > The capacitive measurement systems are all non-starters where we are > fortunate to have choices in fuel (av vs. mo-gas). > > The remediation I have been playing with involves two honeywell pressure > transducers at the bottom of each fuel bung feeding an Arduino with a > touch sensitive LCD screen. Not quite finished for publication, but the > thought is that it should provide legible, filtered, reliable fuel weight o n > each side, calibrated to the funky shape of the tank. > > Two design decisions I made in the prototype may come back to force a > revision: I did not use differential transducers because 1) the limited > altitude range I normally fly at would lead to a trivial error by neglecti ng > head space pressure (also very difficult to find gasoline-tolerant differe ntial > transducers), and 2) by installing the transducers at a tee in the > bungs, there will be a small artifactual pressure drop which varies with > fuel flow. > > When I finish testing, I will let you know. > > -------- > Ira N224XS > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439585#439585 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-L ist" target="_blank">http: &nbs//www.matronics.com/con tribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co======== ========= > > > > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:42 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Knowing the actual fuel level? I would contact avelec.co.uk and ask them to email the calibration instruct ions. I have found the readings quite accurate=2C but then I use mostly th e same fuel=2C and I make sure I never fly with a tank that is almost empty .. > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Knowing the actual fuel level? > From: Rkwmoss@gmail.com > Date: Thu=2C 19 Mar 2015 02:37:33 -0700 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > > Thanks all. > > Does anyone know the calibration procedure for the Avelec? May be worth a try in the first instance. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439581#439581 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:57:09 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Knowing the actual fuel level? I have a similar system as Ira describes based off Tony K's design using a PIC micro that drives a 10 segment LED display. Its calibrated to take care of the shape of the tank and each segment is a linear progression, aka ~ 1.8 gallons per segment. It has been trouble free for 10 years and the only issue is that is reads high for a little while when climbing and low when descending until it settles out. The sensor is differential with one side in the lowest point of the fuel system and the other in the tank vent. I never did get to the bottom of the climbing / descending issue. I like Ira's approach using more modern technology such as the Arduino with a touch sensitive LCD screen. Mine is older technology and finicky thing to get working ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:24:04 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Nose Wheel Bearing From: "Alan Carter" Hello All. Tri gear nose wheel bearing, are they a standard size, if so what is the size of the bearing, and where to obtain the bearing. Regards. Alan. PS. Have you checked your nose wheel bearing for wear, Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439629#439629 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:29 PM PST US From: Martin Tuck Subject: Europa-List: Water Coolant Sensor location? Hi guys, Where do you think I should put the EIS water/coolant temperature sensor? I'm thinking in the long hose that runs from the radiator to the 'distributor pot' on top of the engine. Regards, Martin Tuck N152MT ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Water Coolant Sensor location? From: Robert Borger Martin, Yes, just after the coolant exits the =9Cpot=9D on the way to the radiator. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com > On Mar 19, 2015, at 8:05 PM, Martin Tuck wrote: > > > Hi guys, > > Where do you think I should put the EIS water/coolant temperature sensor? > > I'm thinking in the long hose that runs from the radiator to the 'distributor pot' on top of the engine. > > Regards, > Martin Tuck > N152MT ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:40 PM PST US From: Martin Tuck Subject: Re: Europa-List: Water Coolant Sensor location? Thanks Bob! Martin On 3/19/2015 9:18 PM, Robert Borger wrote: > Martin, > > Yes, just after the coolant exits the pot on the way to the radiator. > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger > Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). > Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208-5331 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > rlborger@mac.com > >> On Mar 19, 2015, at 8:05 PM, Martin Tuck > > wrote: >> >> > >> >> Hi guys, >> >> Where do you think I should put the EIS water/coolant temperature sensor? >> >> I'm thinking in the long hose that runs from the radiator to the >> 'distributor pot' on top of the engine. >> >> Regards, >> Martin Tuck >> N152MT > * > > > * ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.