Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:45 AM - Re: water drain (Nigel Graham)
2. 02:21 AM - Re: water drain (Remi Guerner)
3. 02:47 AM - Re: Re: water drain (Max Cointe (Free))
4. 05:12 AM - Re: water drain (Kevin Klinefelter)
5. 10:37 AM - Re: water drain (Scudrunner)
6. 10:56 AM - Re: Re: water drain (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
7. 12:41 PM - Re: David Joyce (goff)
8. 04:21 PM - Re: Nose Wheel Bearing (Alan Carter)
Message 1
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And the reason for that is probably there in that sentence.
The more ethanol in your fuel, the less likely you you will ever see
water at the drains.
Ethanol readily attaches itself to water meaning that any water
contamination is distributed throughout the fuel. Gone are the days when
it sat conveniently at the bottom of the tank waiting to be drained.
The truth is that there is probably already water in your fuel before
you ever put it into your aircraft.
Water is notoriously difficult to detect and even harder to quantify.
Fuel distribution companies dip their storage tanks with a crude
dipstick coated with a water sensitive paste that changes colour when
water is detected. More modern float detectors (carefully weighted to
float on water, but under the fuel) used in bulk storage tanks work to a
degree, but the non-predictable way that water distributes itself
throughout the fuel means that the indication is little better.
There is no pressing desire by these companies to improve the situation
since there is a healthy profit to be made by selling water at fuel
prices, (a trick that the poultry and pork industries learned many years
ago).
My only advice would be that if you ever do drain a significant quantity
of water from a tank known to contain ethanol fuel, discard the entire
contents as the water will still be attached to the ethanol that was
added to raise the octane rating and the remaining fuel could seriously
damage your engine.
Nigel
On 22/03/2015 21:13, Kevin Klinefelter wrote:
>
> Me too, almost all Mogas (with up to 10% ethanol) and never seen water.
>
>
>> On Mar 22, 2015, at 11:50 AM, Timward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi
>> Same, use Mogas occasional Avgas, never seen water.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> Tim Ward
>> 12 Waiwetu Street
>> Fendalton,
>> Christchurch, 8052
>> New Zealand.
>>
>> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
>>
>> Ph 64 3 3515166
>> Mob 0210640221
>>
>>
>>> On 23/03/2015, at 6:09 am, david park <dpark748@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Use Mogas occasional Avgas, never seen water.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 2
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I have found a lot of water in one wing tank of a rented Robin DR400 after parking
one night under heavy rain. It was about 30 years ago at Sandown, Isle of
Wight. I would have been in trouble if I had taken off on that tank without prior
draining. Since I fly my Europa (13 years and more than 1100 hours flown)
I never found water while draining the tank using the optional drains. I never
found water in the gascolator either. But I find drops of water in the carb bowls
occasionally. So I keep draining.
In my opinion, the drains as designed in factory Mod 33, are not very effective
because the water has first to overcome gravity to have a chance to get out and
the volume trapped inside the hose between the bottom of the tank and the drain
is way too big. I made my own mod to the mod using 4mm hose instead of 8mm.
This reduces the trapped volume by 75%, but I still have some doubt about the
effectivity of the system.
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439756#439756
Message 3
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Thks to each and everyone who took time to answer. Rmi (how are you doing?)
you've stolen my words! I'm currently replacing all the pipes and no
applying Mod 33 will save 6 connections (6 additional risks of leak) and one
meter long of pipe for a very contestable result...
Max Cointe
mcointe@free.fr
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 540 hours
F-PLDJ DynAro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1660 heures
-----Message d'origine-----
De: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Remi Guerner
Envoy: lundi 23 mars 2015 10:21
: europa-list@matronics.com
Objet: Europa-List: Re: water drain
--> <air.guerner@orange.fr>
I have found a lot of water in one wing tank of a rented Robin DR400 after
parking one night under heavy rain. It was about 30 years ago at Sandown,
Isle of Wight. I would have been in trouble if I had taken off on that tank
without prior draining. Since I fly my Europa (13 years and more than 1100
hours flown) I never found water while draining the tank using the optional
drains. I never found water in the gascolator either. But I find drops of
water in the carb bowls occasionally. So I keep draining.
In my opinion, the drains as designed in factory Mod 33, are not very
effective because the water has first to overcome gravity to have a chance
to get out and the volume trapped inside the hose between the bottom of the
tank and the drain is way too big. I made my own mod to the mod using 4mm
hose instead of 8mm. This reduces the trapped volume by 75%, but I still
have some doubt about the effectivity of the system.
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439756#439756
Message 4
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Well stated Nigel. That's why I made sure to mention ethanol.
I perform the test for ethanol on fuel I buy periodically, where you add a measured
amount of water to a sampler, shake it up and the water level increases
with the absorption of the ethanol.
I sure wish they didn't put that crap in fuel.
My Monowheel is based in eastern California (4100' desert climate) so moisture
is not typically a condensation problem at home base. But I'm going to be heading
to Florida for Sun&Fun soon !
Kevin
914/Airmaster
> On Mar 23, 2015, at 1:44 AM, Nigel Graham <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> And the reason for that is probably there in that sentence.
> The more ethanol in your fuel, the less likely you you will ever see water at
the drains.
> Ethanol readily attaches itself to water meaning that any water contamination
is distributed throughout the fuel. Gone are the days when it sat conveniently
at the bottom of the tank waiting to be drained.
>
> The truth is that there is probably already water in your fuel before you ever
put it into your aircraft.
> Water is notoriously difficult to detect and even harder to quantify. Fuel distribution
companies dip their storage tanks with a crude dipstick coated with
a water sensitive paste that changes colour when water is detected. More modern
float detectors (carefully weighted to float on water, but under the fuel)
used in bulk storage tanks work to a degree, but the non-predictable way that
water distributes itself throughout the fuel means that the indication is little
better.
>
> There is no pressing desire by these companies to improve the situation since
there is a healthy profit to be made by selling water at fuel prices, (a trick
that the poultry and pork industries learned many years ago).
>
> My only advice would be that if you ever do drain a significant quantity of water
from a tank known to contain ethanol fuel, discard the entire contents as
the water will still be attached to the ethanol that was added to raise the octane
rating and the remaining fuel could seriously damage your engine.
>
> Nigel
>
>
>> On 22/03/2015 21:13, Kevin Klinefelter wrote:
>>
>> Me too, almost all Mogas (with up to 10% ethanol) and never seen water.
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 22, 2015, at 11:50 AM, Timward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi
>>> Same, use Mogas occasional Avgas, never seen water.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> Tim Ward
>>> 12 Waiwetu Street
>>> Fendalton,
>>> Christchurch, 8052
>>> New Zealand.
>>>
>>> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
>>>
>>> Ph 64 3 3515166
>>> Mob 0210640221
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 23/03/2015, at 6:09 am, david park <dpark748@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Use Mogas occasional Avgas, never seen water.
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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I always refuel my Europa before my walk around and test for water at the end -
allows time for any water to settle?. I also use a Mr Funnel water seperator
funnel though. Fuel is mogas. I drain half a jam jar per side (perhaps it should
be a full one?). Only recently (cold winter) have I seen a cloudy sample with
"bubbles" that sink rather than float. Once settled, it was no more than half
a teaspoon. I'm assuming that this was condensation in a 3/4 empty tank? (aircraft
hangared).
Howard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439782#439782
Message 6
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Coulld be dilute water/alcohol which would sink?=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___
_____________________________=0A From: Scudrunner <howardbrooksster@gmail.c
om>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 23 March 2015, 17:36
=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: water drain=0A =0A=0A--> Europa-List message p
osted by: "Scudrunner" <howardbrooksster@gmail.com>=0A=0AI always refuel my
Europa before my walk around and test for water at the end - allows time f
or any water to settle?. I also use a Mr Funnel water seperator funnel thou
gh. Fuel is mogas. I drain half a jam jar per side (perhaps it should be a
full one?). Only recently (cold winter) have I seen a cloudy sample with "b
ubbles" that sink rather than float. Once settled, it was no more than half
a teaspoon. I'm assuming that this was condensation in a 3/4 empty tank? (
aircraft hangared).=0A=0AHoward=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:
=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439782#439782=0A=0A=0A
==================
Message 7
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David,
Thanks for the off-line replies.
Goff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439795#439795
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Nose Wheel Bearing |
Hi Bud.
Hope the weather is good to you this year.
Many thanks for your detailed post on my nose wheel, it is nice to receive
and thanks for your time it is much appreciated . My plane was Number 96 a Mono,
finished in 2000 so guess it the early axial , After about 30 hours and a couple
of prop strikes, it had the Mono Tri Conversion carried out by Europa Aircraft
Com, My guess is a Mono Tri Conversion Leeds to a stronger aeroplane than
the standard Tri gear, just my guess i am not a builder ,
Regards.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439810#439810
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