---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/23/15: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:45 AM - Re: water drain (Nigel Graham) 2. 02:21 AM - Re: water drain (Remi Guerner) 3. 02:47 AM - Re: Re: water drain (Max Cointe (Free)) 4. 05:12 AM - Re: water drain (Kevin Klinefelter) 5. 10:37 AM - Re: water drain (Scudrunner) 6. 10:56 AM - Re: Re: water drain (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 7. 12:41 PM - Re: David Joyce (goff) 8. 04:21 PM - Re: Nose Wheel Bearing (Alan Carter) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:32 AM PST US From: Nigel Graham Subject: Re: Europa-List: water drain And the reason for that is probably there in that sentence. The more ethanol in your fuel, the less likely you you will ever see water at the drains. Ethanol readily attaches itself to water meaning that any water contamination is distributed throughout the fuel. Gone are the days when it sat conveniently at the bottom of the tank waiting to be drained. The truth is that there is probably already water in your fuel before you ever put it into your aircraft. Water is notoriously difficult to detect and even harder to quantify. Fuel distribution companies dip their storage tanks with a crude dipstick coated with a water sensitive paste that changes colour when water is detected. More modern float detectors (carefully weighted to float on water, but under the fuel) used in bulk storage tanks work to a degree, but the non-predictable way that water distributes itself throughout the fuel means that the indication is little better. There is no pressing desire by these companies to improve the situation since there is a healthy profit to be made by selling water at fuel prices, (a trick that the poultry and pork industries learned many years ago). My only advice would be that if you ever do drain a significant quantity of water from a tank known to contain ethanol fuel, discard the entire contents as the water will still be attached to the ethanol that was added to raise the octane rating and the remaining fuel could seriously damage your engine. Nigel On 22/03/2015 21:13, Kevin Klinefelter wrote: > > Me too, almost all Mogas (with up to 10% ethanol) and never seen water. > > >> On Mar 22, 2015, at 11:50 AM, Timward wrote: >> >> >> Hi >> Same, use Mogas occasional Avgas, never seen water. >> >> Tim >> >> Tim Ward >> 12 Waiwetu Street >> Fendalton, >> Christchurch, 8052 >> New Zealand. >> >> ward.t@xtra.co.nz >> >> Ph 64 3 3515166 >> Mob 0210640221 >> >> >>> On 23/03/2015, at 6:09 am, david park wrote: >>> >>> Use Mogas occasional Avgas, never seen water. >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:21:31 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: water drain From: "Remi Guerner" I have found a lot of water in one wing tank of a rented Robin DR400 after parking one night under heavy rain. It was about 30 years ago at Sandown, Isle of Wight. I would have been in trouble if I had taken off on that tank without prior draining. Since I fly my Europa (13 years and more than 1100 hours flown) I never found water while draining the tank using the optional drains. I never found water in the gascolator either. But I find drops of water in the carb bowls occasionally. So I keep draining. In my opinion, the drains as designed in factory Mod 33, are not very effective because the water has first to overcome gravity to have a chance to get out and the volume trapped inside the hose between the bottom of the tank and the drain is way too big. I made my own mod to the mod using 4mm hose instead of 8mm. This reduces the trapped volume by 75%, but I still have some doubt about the effectivity of the system. Remi Guerner F-PGKL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439756#439756 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:20 AM PST US From: "Max Cointe (Free)" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: water drain Thks to each and everyone who took time to answer. Rmi (how are you doing?) you've stolen my words! I'm currently replacing all the pipes and no applying Mod 33 will save 6 connections (6 additional risks of leak) and one meter long of pipe for a very contestable result... Max Cointe mcointe@free.fr F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 540 hours F-PLDJ DynAro MCR 4S Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1660 heures -----Message d'origine----- De: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Remi Guerner Envoy: lundi 23 mars 2015 10:21 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet: Europa-List: Re: water drain --> I have found a lot of water in one wing tank of a rented Robin DR400 after parking one night under heavy rain. It was about 30 years ago at Sandown, Isle of Wight. I would have been in trouble if I had taken off on that tank without prior draining. Since I fly my Europa (13 years and more than 1100 hours flown) I never found water while draining the tank using the optional drains. I never found water in the gascolator either. But I find drops of water in the carb bowls occasionally. So I keep draining. In my opinion, the drains as designed in factory Mod 33, are not very effective because the water has first to overcome gravity to have a chance to get out and the volume trapped inside the hose between the bottom of the tank and the drain is way too big. I made my own mod to the mod using 4mm hose instead of 8mm. This reduces the trapped volume by 75%, but I still have some doubt about the effectivity of the system. Remi Guerner F-PGKL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439756#439756 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:55 AM PST US From: Kevin Klinefelter Subject: Re: Europa-List: water drain Well stated Nigel. That's why I made sure to mention ethanol. I perform the test for ethanol on fuel I buy periodically, where you add a measured amount of water to a sampler, shake it up and the water level increases with the absorption of the ethanol. I sure wish they didn't put that crap in fuel. My Monowheel is based in eastern California (4100' desert climate) so moisture is not typically a condensation problem at home base. But I'm going to be heading to Florida for Sun&Fun soon ! Kevin 914/Airmaster > On Mar 23, 2015, at 1:44 AM, Nigel Graham wrote: > > > And the reason for that is probably there in that sentence. > The more ethanol in your fuel, the less likely you you will ever see water at the drains. > Ethanol readily attaches itself to water meaning that any water contamination is distributed throughout the fuel. Gone are the days when it sat conveniently at the bottom of the tank waiting to be drained. > > The truth is that there is probably already water in your fuel before you ever put it into your aircraft. > Water is notoriously difficult to detect and even harder to quantify. Fuel distribution companies dip their storage tanks with a crude dipstick coated with a water sensitive paste that changes colour when water is detected. More modern float detectors (carefully weighted to float on water, but under the fuel) used in bulk storage tanks work to a degree, but the non-predictable way that water distributes itself throughout the fuel means that the indication is little better. > > There is no pressing desire by these companies to improve the situation since there is a healthy profit to be made by selling water at fuel prices, (a trick that the poultry and pork industries learned many years ago). > > My only advice would be that if you ever do drain a significant quantity of water from a tank known to contain ethanol fuel, discard the entire contents as the water will still be attached to the ethanol that was added to raise the octane rating and the remaining fuel could seriously damage your engine. > > Nigel > > >> On 22/03/2015 21:13, Kevin Klinefelter wrote: >> >> Me too, almost all Mogas (with up to 10% ethanol) and never seen water. >> >> >>> On Mar 22, 2015, at 11:50 AM, Timward wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi >>> Same, use Mogas occasional Avgas, never seen water. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> Tim Ward >>> 12 Waiwetu Street >>> Fendalton, >>> Christchurch, 8052 >>> New Zealand. >>> >>> ward.t@xtra.co.nz >>> >>> Ph 64 3 3515166 >>> Mob 0210640221 >>> >>> >>>> On 23/03/2015, at 6:09 am, david park wrote: >>>> >>>> Use Mogas occasional Avgas, never seen water. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:37:02 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: water drain From: "Scudrunner" I always refuel my Europa before my walk around and test for water at the end - allows time for any water to settle?. I also use a Mr Funnel water seperator funnel though. Fuel is mogas. I drain half a jam jar per side (perhaps it should be a full one?). Only recently (cold winter) have I seen a cloudy sample with "bubbles" that sink rather than float. Once settled, it was no more than half a teaspoon. I'm assuming that this was condensation in a 3/4 empty tank? (aircraft hangared). Howard Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439782#439782 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:56:55 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: water drain Coulld be dilute water/alcohol which would sink?=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___ _____________________________=0A From: Scudrunner =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 23 March 2015, 17:36 =0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: water drain=0A =0A=0A--> Europa-List message p osted by: "Scudrunner" =0A=0AI always refuel my Europa before my walk around and test for water at the end - allows time f or any water to settle?. I also use a Mr Funnel water seperator funnel thou gh. Fuel is mogas. I drain half a jam jar per side (perhaps it should be a full one?). Only recently (cold winter) have I seen a cloudy sample with "b ubbles" that sink rather than float. Once settled, it was no more than half a teaspoon. I'm assuming that this was condensation in a 3/4 empty tank? ( aircraft hangared).=0A=0AHoward=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439782#439782=0A=0A=0A ================== ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:37 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: David Joyce From: "goff" David, Thanks for the off-line replies. Goff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439795#439795 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:00 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Nose Wheel Bearing From: "Alan Carter" Hi Bud. Hope the weather is good to you this year. Many thanks for your detailed post on my nose wheel, it is nice to receive and thanks for your time it is much appreciated . My plane was Number 96 a Mono, finished in 2000 so guess it the early axial , After about 30 hours and a couple of prop strikes, it had the Mono Tri Conversion carried out by Europa Aircraft Com, My guess is a Mono Tri Conversion Leeds to a stronger aeroplane than the standard Tri gear, just my guess i am not a builder , Regards. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439810#439810 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.