Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:12 AM - Re: Fuel Tank moved!! (Greg Fuchs)
2. 02:23 AM - Flap root extension (jglazener)
3. 02:40 AM - Re: Binx nuts torque (Keith Hickling)
4. 08:14 AM - Re: Binx nuts torque (William Daniell)
5. 09:57 AM - Blue Mountain EFIS (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
6. 11:39 AM - 912S Starter on a 914 (Paul McAllister)
7. 12:25 PM - Re: 912S Starter on a 914 (Bob Harrison)
8. 12:48 PM - Re: 912S Starter on a 914 (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
9. 02:00 PM - Re: Fuel Tank moved!! (Mike Gamble)
10. 07:07 PM - Re: 912S Starter on a 914 (Paul McAllister)
Message 1
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Subject: | Fuel Tank moved!! |
Mike,
IMHO, It would be good to understand how the clearance issue happened,
before committing a solution..or even whether you need one. Determining
whether it was tank shrinkage rather than slippage might be the first
agenda.
When I tested my tank for holes, it was filled to at least 3/4 of a tank
full of fuel for about 6 months.
The tank changed shape over time, as noticed by the back side bulging out.
Thus, the fuel was left in it until about a day before installation,
thinking that it was best to anchor it to the aircraft in its normal
operating state which could eliminate some strain from the fiberglass plies
tugging at it. I did have to heat up and straighten out the back side of the
tank though, or it would not fit properly into its position. A heat gun,
some flat pieces of ply, and some weights were employed for that job.
The fiber-glassing went well, and the clearances were fine upon assembly.
Its been many years, so I am struggling to remember the time frame, but
sometime in the months that followed with the tank dry of fuel, the tank
reduced in size (shrank). I could tell, because in some areas it no longer
touched the plies used to strap it in. I did not quantify with
measurements..just used visual observation. Clearance was as much as 1/4" or
so in some areas. Then I noticed the top side of the rubber hose at the tank
outlet(s) brushing up against the torque tube. Not aggressively, just
lightly. It doesn't concern me much. As soon as I put fuel in, it should
resume the shape it had when I strapped it in. I did put in a plastic
rubbing strip to protect the paint finish on the torque tube.
I couldn't see any other way the outlet could be rubbing on the torque tube,
other than it must be that it expanded when fueled and shrunk once again
when the fuel was drained out (completely dry). Some day, the tank will be
re-fueled, and I can see what happens for sure with this clearance. Some
day, when the plane is close to being ready to fly, that is..
This may not describe your issue, but then again it might. Three months in
your garage should be long enough for it to shrink. How completely did you
empty your tank? I figure (guessing) the tank would take awhile to shrink,
so it certainly would not happen in flight. Weeks to months probably. It
would likely need to be mostly drained of fuel, to eliminate fuel vapor,
which might arrest the tank from shrinking. I am completely guessing here of
course, since I have not done these tests..
Tank treatment? ..My tank was shipped in late 2002. It 'should' have been
treated with fluoride by then (crossing fingers).
Greg
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Gamble
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2015 10:12 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel Tank moved!!
Thanks for your input Greg.
I had drained the tank which very possibly moved it up a bit but I would not
like to think of this happening in flight.
Did you measure the clearance from your torque tube with and without fuel?
How on earth can I increase this clearance?
The manual just gives a suggested 2cm distance tank to floor.
Maybe this will generate some more response from the forum.
Mike
Message 2
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Subject: | Flap root extension |
According to the manual, one of the last steps in fitting the wings and flaps is
to build a flap root extension. I am nowhere near this, wings are still open
and not yet fitted to the fuselage. Nevertheless I would like to get flaps and
ailerons filled and painted. Partly because it keeps my painter friend busy
and beholden to me, partly to spread cost, but also because I feel it may be a
good idea to have the flaps to net size when closing the wing.
I noticed that the NG flaps have the root extensions as a an integral feature ex
factory. That suggests to me that having them on does not hinder further assembly
work, but I want to check this before I do anything stupid or expensive.
Any thoughts?
--------
Jeroen
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440229#440229
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Binx nuts torque |
Will,
Europa told me that you can=99t give a torque figure for them
because it depends how hard they grip =93 takes quite a bit of
torque just to turn them even before they are tight. Just tighten them
up firmly.
Nev (via Bob Borger) said :
"No need for them to be too tight, I just nip them up, then a firm tug
on a regular spanner [ wrench ], at a guess about 125 lb in, plenty
tight enough to keep them from fretting, not enough to stretch the
threads."
Regards,
Keith.
Keith Hickling.
From: William Daniell
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 6:16 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Binx nuts torque
Does anyone know what the torque on the binx nuts which are used for the
engine subframe to ring mount is supposed to be?
Many thanks
Will
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Binx nuts torque |
Keith
thanks very much
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 4:39 AM, Keith Hickling <keithhickling@clear.net.nz>
wrote:
> Will,
> Europa told me that you can=99t give a torque figure for them becau
se it
> depends how hard they grip =93 takes quite a bit of torque just to
turn them
> even before they are tight. Just tighten them up firmly.
>
> Nev (via Bob Borger) said :
>
> "No need for them to be too tight, I just nip them up, then a firm tug on
> a regular spanner [ wrench ], at a guess about 125 lb in, plenty tight
> enough to keep them from fretting, not enough to stretch the threads."
>
> Regards,
> Keith.
> Keith Hickling.
> *From:* William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, April 03, 2015 6:16 AM
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Europa-List: Binx nuts torque
>
> Does anyone know what the torque on the binx nuts which are used for the
> engine subframe to ring mount is supposed to be?
>
> Many thanks
> Will
>
>
> *
>
===========
tronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS |
Does anyone by any chance know anything about correcting the altimeter
read out on a Blue Mountain EFIS?
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
Message 6
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Subject: | 912S Starter on a 914 |
Hi all,
The starter on my 914 occasionally throws a hissy fit when it's hot and I am
looking into replacing it with 912S starter. Are there any considerations I
need to take into account with the ring mount or water pump? My aircraft is
an XS
Thanks, Paul
Message 7
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Subject: | 912S Starter on a 914 |
Hi! Paul, Suggest you get the heavy duty starter , but you may need to lift
the engine forwards
To get it in. It is without doubt well on top of the job.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul McAllister
Sent: 03 April 2015 19:37
Subject: Europa-List: 912S Starter on a 914
Hi all,
The starter on my 914 occasionally throws a hissy fit when it's hot and I am
looking into replacing it with 912S starter. Are there any considerations I
need to take into account with the ring mount or water pump? My aircraft is
an XS
Thanks, Paul
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: 912S Starter on a 914 |
Paul, in 13 years my 914 starter has never given me any cause to doubt
it, and I would wonder whether there is anything to be gained by
changing to a different system. Certainly on occasions with engine &
weather hot it might not start on the usual first or second go, but this
is not because it doesn't turn the engine over nicely but presumably
because all the petrol in the carbs has vapourised or some such. If you
have a conventional battery rather than an Odyssey or equivalent (which
have much higher cranking power) I would be tempted to change that
first.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
On 2015-04-03 19:37, Paul McAllister wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> The starter on my 914 occasionally throws a hissy fit when it's hot and I am
looking into replacing it with 912S starter. Are there any considerations I need
to take into account with the ring mount or water pump? My aircraft is an XS
>
> Thanks, Paul
>
Links:
------
[1] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
[2] http://forums.matronics.com
[3] http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 9
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Subject: | Fuel Tank moved!! |
Greg,
Thanks for the info. What you say makes sense and I appreciate you taking
the time to help me out.
I put 60 ltrs in the tank today and shall leave things alone for a while to
see if we get any improvement.
I will report results .
Mike
(my tank was supplied in Jul. 99)
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Fuchs
Sent: 03 April 2015 09:11
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel Tank moved!!
Mike,
IMHO, It would be good to understand how the clearance issue happened,
before committing a solution..or even whether you need one. Determining
whether it was tank shrinkage rather than slippage might be the first
agenda.
When I tested my tank for holes, it was filled to at least 3/4 of a tank
full of fuel for about 6 months.
The tank changed shape over time, as noticed by the back side bulging out.
Thus, the fuel was left in it until about a day before installation,
thinking that it was best to anchor it to the aircraft in its normal
operating state which could eliminate some strain from the fiberglass plies
tugging at it. I did have to heat up and straighten out the back side of the
tank though, or it would not fit properly into its position. A heat gun,
some flat pieces of ply, and some weights were employed for that job.
The fiber-glassing went well, and the clearances were fine upon assembly.
Its been many years, so I am struggling to remember the time frame, but
sometime in the months that followed with the tank dry of fuel, the tank
reduced in size (shrank). I could tell, because in some areas it no longer
touched the plies used to strap it in. I did not quantify with
measurements..just used visual observation. Clearance was as much as 1/4" or
so in some areas. Then I noticed the top side of the rubber hose at the tank
outlet(s) brushing up against the torque tube. Not aggressively, just
lightly. It doesn't concern me much. As soon as I put fuel in, it should
resume the shape it had when I strapped it in. I did put in a plastic
rubbing strip to protect the paint finish on the torque tube.
I couldn't see any other way the outlet could be rubbing on the torque tube,
other than it must be that it expanded when fueled and shrunk once again
when the fuel was drained out (completely dry). Some day, the tank will be
re-fueled, and I can see what happens for sure with this clearance. Some
day, when the plane is close to being ready to fly, that is..
This may not describe your issue, but then again it might. Three months in
your garage should be long enough for it to shrink. How completely did you
empty your tank? I figure (guessing) the tank would take awhile to shrink,
so it certainly would not happen in flight. Weeks to months probably. It
would likely need to be mostly drained of fuel, to eliminate fuel vapor,
which might arrest the tank from shrinking. I am completely guessing here of
course, since I have not done these tests..
Tank treatment? ..My tank was shipped in late 2002. It 'should' have been
treated with fluoride by then (crossing fingers).
Greg
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Gamble
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2015 10:12 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel Tank moved!!
Thanks for your input Greg.
I had drained the tank which very possibly moved it up a bit but I would not
like to think of this happening in flight.
Did you measure the clearance from your torque tube with and without fuel?
How on earth can I increase this clearance?
The manual just gives a suggested 2cm distance tank to floor.
Maybe this will generate some more response from the forum.
Mike
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: 912S Starter on a 914 |
Hello David,
The on occasions the starter won't engage when the engine is hot and I have
done several starts. It mostly occurs when I am doing a prop balance. If I
tap (bang) on it then it generally springs into life. I have an Odyssey
battery.
My guess is if I pulled it apart I'd probably find stuck brushes or
something.
I am hoping that the advantage of going to the heavy duty starter is that
it will end the occasional kick back.
Regards, Paul
.
On Friday, April 3, 2015, <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> wrote:
> Paul, in 13 years my 914 starter has never given me any cause to doubt
> it, and I would wonder whether there is anything to be gained by changing
> to a different system. Certainly on occasions with engine & weather hot it
> might not start on the usual first or second go, but this is not because it
> doesn't turn the engine over nicely but presumably because all the petrol
> in the carbs has vapourised or some such. If you have a conventional
> battery rather than an Odyssey or equivalent (which have much higher
> cranking power) I would be tempted to change that first.
>
> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>
>
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