---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/18/15: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:43 AM - Re: XS exhaust down pipe crack (JonSmith) 2. 02:55 AM - Re: XS exhaust down pipe crack (fireflier) 3. 07:17 AM - Sun N Fun 2015 (Erich Trombley) 4. 07:56 AM - Re: First Fueling (Fred Klein) 5. 09:12 AM - Re: XS exhaust down pipe crack (graeme bird) 6. 10:08 AM - Re: XS exhaust down pipe crack (Max Cointe (Free)) 7. 11:07 AM - Europaowners.org website (alan_hunter1664) 8. 11:15 AM - Re: Fitting new tail plane torque tube (alan_hunter1664) 9. 12:14 PM - Re: First Fueling (Bud Yerly) 10. 11:18 PM - Re: Europaowners.org website (Nigel Graham) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:43:25 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: XS exhaust down pipe crack From: "JonSmith" Hi Donald, I got your message and have sent you a pm. If you don't receive it please let me know and I'll try again (I'm not an expert on this messaging thing!) Cheers, Jon -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440966#440966 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:55:32 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: XS exhaust down pipe crack From: "fireflier" Hi Jon Got your pm, thanks and I have replied some interesting points you raise and very similar symptoms to yours. Many thanks Donald G-PUPY -------- Fireflier Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440969#440969 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:04 AM PST US From: "Erich Trombley" Subject: Europa-List: Sun N Fun 2015 Hi Jim & Heather, Please add me to the list of those attending S&F. I w ill be arriving via airline into Tampa on Monday evening and departing T hursday evening. Looking forward to seeing everyone. Cell: 702.682.0219 Regards, Erich TrombleyClassic Mono 914N28ET ____________________________________________________________ Old School Yearbook Pics View Class Yearbooks Online Free. Search by School & Year. Look Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5532671b1b02a671b1f00st01vuc ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:21 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Fueling Budyou wrote: > > Gascolators do not prime well. I would check for an air leak. Andairs are well made and pull a vacuum. The standard diaphragm pump does not pull air well enough for some brands. Budnow we begin to descend down the rabbit hole of the testing and operational phase of a one-off, non-standard engine installation...recall that my engine is MPEFI=99edmy two (in parallel) fuel pumps are hi-pressure type and (apparently) do not have the ability to =9Csuck=9D fuel on the input side.. > If it won't prime the engine with 2.5 gallons on the ground, will it do it in the air? An excellent questionfor which prudence requires an answer =9Con the ground=9D. > > Ground Test war story: Ran the main dry, flipped to aux and it would not self prime without more head pressure. Could not find a leak but the gascolator was installed slightly above tank bottom level. With 10 gallons it would prime. It was a trigear. I know they have used gascolators in a/c for ever, but they should be the lowest point in the system. That is, the bowl outside, below the belly. With my mono resting on the LG & tail wheel, I=99m preparing a diagram with measured elevations of the various points in the fuel system starting from the tank outlet to the hi-pressure fuel pump outletsHowever, by eye, it is apparent that the high point in the system is the selector-valve-main-tank-outlet(selector valve having been installed as per manual). At this stage of the game, I have concerns that if main tank runs dry to exhaustion and I move selector to reserve, will fuel continue to flow? > > That is why I don't use them and won't install one. To easy to screw up. Besides, water does not condense in the tanks and filters work as well. I=99ve been unaware of your thoughts on gascolators I confess to have one solely because of the frequent mention of them on this list and their apparent widespread use. > Most experimental takeoff accidents are fuel and engine related. I am indeed aware of that fact. > Make them flawless then test for fuel exhaustion, on one side then switch and hopefully keep running. Exactly my intention... > > Clean your fuel lines before hooking to the engine. A common assumption is the filter missed some dirt/ debris and the gascolators just prior to the engine caught it. Flush and flush again. And what do you recommend for a cleaning agent? > > My two cents. Grossly undervaluedyour knowledge is priceless Many thanks, Fred PS: A local A&P recommends adding a Facet pump to ensure that fuel gets to my hi-pressure pumpsmy engine builder recommends bleeding the lines just upstream of the hi-pressure pumpsfor the moment, I=99m looking for simplicity and reliability. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:25 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: XS exhaust down pipe crack From: "graeme bird" looks like a manufacturing defect to me. Loop weld has thinned the metal too much. Get on the the manufacturers. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 150 hours 36 months on the Mono g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440973#440973 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:24 AM PST US From: "Max Cointe (Free)" Subject: RE: Europa-List: XS exhaust down pipe crack Hi Donald, FYI we had a comparable crack on our MCR. This was due to a rupture of a bolt of fixation under the engine. Don't know if it helps but just have a look how the engine is maintained. Remember also what was the level of vibration at low rotation and how the engines topped... Max Cointe mcointe@free.fr F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 540 hours F-PLDJ DynAro MCR 4S Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1660 heures -----Message d'origine----- De: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de fireflier Envoy: samedi 18 avril 2015 00:52 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet: Europa-List: XS exhaust down pipe crack --> Hi Whilst flying today my exhaust down pipe on no 4 cylinder developed a crack as shown in the attached photo. I have done a search of the list and found one further history of this type of failure on g-tern. This was back in 2012 but there wasn't any conclusive answers as to what has caused this type of failure. My exhaust is a CKT engineering system fitted to a rotax 912uls with woodcomp sr3000 vp prop, europa XS. The exhaust system has had approx 30 hrs use before this failure. I have sent the owner of G-tern a PM through this forum to see if he can Give me any further information as to possible cause and what soloution's he has had to rectify the problem he had back kn 2012. If anyone else could help or provide any possible answers to this type of failure, it would be much appreciated. Many thanks Donald G-PUPY -------- Fireflier Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440956#440956 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_787.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:18 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Europaowners.org website From: "alan_hunter1664" Does anyone know if the europaowners.org web site is still open to post build pictures? I've registered on the site but I can't find a link to create a new build. Many thanks Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440975#440975 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:15:46 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fitting new tail plane torque tube From: "alan_hunter1664" Further to the above, I'm now at the stage of fitting the tailplane torque tube but contrary to my first post it appears the new pre-drilled black bushes are too short giving a total of nearly 12mm of end float. I've taken some dimensions noted in the attached. I've sent a query to Europa. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440977#440977 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/torque_tube_314.doc ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:13 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Fueling Fred, I recall your non standard engine, but am confident in the quality of your testing and evaluation. I don't intend to start a gascolator war, because they are a fine piece of equipment for tractors, metal high wing aircraft with no prime pumps and constant water problems or aircraft with low wings and the gascolator installed and tested with a thirty year track record like a Piper. They are fine for the aircraft with tank drains, and long runs of line that fill with water while sitting. I prefer Andair's gascolators as they work well up to high pressure, seal well, but they are not a visible junk trap. His filters are built into the unit and replaceable. On the ones we've installed in RVs, we put them on the engine side of the aux fuel pump and have had no problems. His pumps are great also. You=99re A&P friend is correct in having a high volume / low pressure pump feed the engine pressure pumps. The Facet pump indeed sucks well. (So does a Piersburg). On the initial installation of fuel injected engines, we used to have to have a header tank. Auto and Marine experience now shows a primer pump at the tank bottom level, will feed the volume needed. However, the volume of the high pressure pumps must be satisfied and proper plumbing to prevent circular flow when one pump fails. Your EFI manufacturer should have that information. As you know, autos now have the high pressure pump in the fuel tank and run pressure lines forward to the engine with the regulator after the fuel rail which prevents starvation and priming problems. Problem with our little aircraft is the fuel selector has to be forward of the pumps because they are not normally pressure tested and submerged fuel pumps are not possible. You probably have already reviewed SDS for their fuel system installation notes, but if you haven't: www.sdsefi.com. They really helped us with an RV as well as the Jason Parker engines. Their stuff works. See their cute little surge tank in their tech section. Small and affordable. Cleaning the fuel line used to be done with denatured alcohol but since auto fuel is now filled with ethanol and excellent cleaning and plastic ruining addatives, I use plain old ethanol laced auto fuel for my flushings. It does stain if you get a leak and it stinks a bit, but boy does it clean the crud out of fuel lines that may have been sitting on the shelf for a while. Not uncommon to get brown fuel out of an R-14 fuel injection hose. Our procedure: Start with clean gas cans and fresh fuel always. 1. We fill the tank nearly full, about 15 gallons (and watch for leaks in the fill neck and bosses). 2. Slosh the plane around 3. Lift the tail and disconnect the fuel line from the engine pump or fuel regulator. 4. Look for static leaks again. 5. Turn on the electric boost pump (pumps about 30 gal per hour or more). 6. Calibrate the fuel flow and sight gauge as appropriate. 7. Change 5 gallon tanks out. 8. When the fuel stops flowing out of the main, switch tanks and exhaust again. 9. Refuel through a Mister Funnel or similar filtering fuel funnel. 10. Repeat two more times. Repair anything that is wet with fuel. Use care not to overtorque fuel clamps and use the proper type if using other than automotive hose (cheap kind you throw away after a few years). Cheers Fred Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Klein To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2015 10:55 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Fueling Budyou wrote: Gascolators do not prime well. I would check for an air leak. Andairs are well made and pull a vacuum. The standard diaphragm pump does not pull air well enough for some brands. Budnow we begin to descend down the rabbit hole of the testing and operational phase of a one-off, non-standard engine installation...recall that my engine is MPEFI=99edmy two (in parallel) fuel pumps are hi-pressure type and (apparently) do not have the ability to =9Csuck=9D fuel on the input side.. If it won't prime the engine with 2.5 gallons on the ground, will it do it in the air? An excellent questionfor which prudence requires an answer =9Con the ground=9D. Ground Test war story: Ran the main dry, flipped to aux and it would not self prime without more head pressure. Could not find a leak but the gascolator was installed slightly above tank bottom level. With 10 gallons it would prime. It was a trigear. I know they have used gascolators in a/c for ever, but they should be the lowest point in the system. That is, the bowl outside, below the belly. With my mono resting on the LG & tail wheel, I=99m preparing a diagram with measured elevations of the various points in the fuel system starting from the tank outlet to the hi-pressure fuel pump outletsHowever, by eye, it is apparent that the high point in the system is the selector-valve-main-tank-outlet(selector valve having been installed as per manual). At this stage of the game, I have concerns that if main tank runs dry to exhaustion and I move selector to reserve, will fuel continue to flow? That is why I don't use them and won't install one. To easy to screw up. Besides, water does not condense in the tanks and filters work as well. I=99ve been unaware of your thoughts on gascolatorsI confess to have one solely because of the frequent mention of them on this list and their apparent widespread use. Most experimental takeoff accidents are fuel and engine related. I am indeed aware of that fact. Make them flawless then test for fuel exhaustion, on one side then switch and hopefully keep running. Exactly my intention... Clean your fuel lines before hooking to the engine. A common assumption is the filter missed some dirt/ debris and the gascolators just prior to the engine caught it. Flush and flush again. And what do you recommend for a cleaning agent? My two cents. Grossly undervaluedyour knowledge is priceless Many thanks, Fred PS: A local A&P recommends adding a Facet pump to ensure that fuel gets to my hi-pressure pumpsmy engine builder recommends bleeding the lines just upstream of the hi-pressure pumpsfor the moment, I=99m looking for simplicity and reliability. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:09 PM PST US From: Nigel Graham Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europaowners.org website Hi Alan, If you look at the homepage of "Gallery", the organisation that hosts europaowners.org ( http://galleryproject.org/ ), you will see the following announcement. This may explain your lack of success. Nigel /The Gallery team has decided to take a step back from actively maintaining this project. Truth be told, most of the core team got busy with their lives over the past few years and we haven't had the time to really actively maintain the project in a long time. The forums have continued to be lively and helpful and there is still plenty of good conversation there - but no new code has been written in the past 6 months and that's not likely to change./ /So after over 14 years, 3 major revisions of the project, many tens of releases, hundreds of contributors, tens of thousands of lines of code, almost a hundred thousand forum topics and almost four hundred thousand comments, it's time for us to shutter up shop./ /Why not just leave the site up and operational? Unfortunately - it takes time to actively maintain and police our site. The Gallery website is constantly under attack by spammers and our servers require maintenance. We've been doing that for years, but it's time to call it quits./ /So what's next? Sometime soon we'll make the website read only. All the forum posts and topics will still be there, but we'll stop letting people log in and add new content. This will greatly prevent the spread of spam through the site while still allowing search engines to find useful content. Then we'll put the whole site into a very low-overhead maintenance mode until we run out of money to keep it up. Then we'll shut the site down./ /While the site is hibernating, some systems will continue to work. You'll be able to download translations for Gallery 3, for example. But at some point we'll stop accepting translation uploads. And when we run out of money, translations will go away. Sorry about that./ /It's been a great ride. I'm glad that you could join us with it. But now it's time to move on./ /regards,// //Bharat/ /PS: If you're interested in taking over the project - email me and we can talk. You need to be serious about it though because I'm not handing this over to somebody who just wants to use it for SEO purposes. My email address is easy to find. Also, I won't be reading private messages./ http://galleryproject.org/ On 18/04/2015 19:05, alan_hunter1664 wrote: > > Does anyone know if the europaowners.org web site is still open to post build pictures? I've registered on the site but I can't find a link to create a new build. > > Many thanks > > Alan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440975#440975 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.