Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:20 AM - Re: Europaowners.org website (alan_hunter1664)
2. 01:45 AM - Re: First Fueling (Fred Klein)
3. 05:26 AM - Miami Area Contacts (William Daniell)
4. 10:39 AM - Loan of an open monowheel trailer (houlihan)
5. 10:41 AM - Re: Sun N Fun 2015 (rampil)
6. 03:23 PM - Compressing Rubber Mounts (Martin Tuck)
7. 03:32 PM - Re: Miami Area Contacts (Tony Renshaw)
8. 03:32 PM - Re: Miami Area Contacts (Tony Renshaw)
9. 04:50 PM - Re: Compressing Rubber Mounts (jonathanmilbank)
10. 06:26 PM - Re: Re: Europaowners.org website (Robert Borger)
11. 07:27 PM - Re: Re: Compressing Rubber Mounts (Martin Tuck)
12. 07:28 PM - Re: Miami Area Contacts (William Daniell)
13. 11:03 PM - Re: Compressing Rubber Mounts (JonSmith)
14. 11:50 PM - Re: Re: Sun N Fun 2015 (Nigel Graham)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Europaowners.org website |
Thanks Nigel,
I'ts disappointing and worrisome that they are going to shut the site down completely
at some point but don't give any indication when.
Many thanks
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440984#440984
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: First Fueling |
Budthanks so much for your additional comments and fuel system
test proceduresee my indents belowFred
> On Apr 18, 2015, at 12:13 PM, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>
> Fred,
> I recall your non standard engine, but am confident in the quality of
your testing and evaluation.
Your confidence is much appreciated.
>
> I don't intend to start a gascolator war, because they are a fine
piece of equipment for tractors, metal high wing aircraft with no prime
pumps and constant water problems or aircraft with low wings and the
gascolator installed and tested with a thirty year track record like a
Piper. They are fine for the aircraft with tank drains, and long runs
of line that fill with water while sitting. I prefer Andair's
gascolators as they work well up to high pressure, seal well, but they
are not a visible junk trap. His filters are built into the unit and
replaceable. On the ones we've installed in RVs, we put them on the
engine side of the aux fuel pump and have had no problems. His pumps
are great also.
>
> You=99re A&P friend is correct in having a high volume / low
pressure pump feed the engine pressure pumps. The Facet pump indeed
sucks well. (So does a Piersburg). On the initial installation of fuel
injected engines, we used to have to have a header tank. Auto and
Marine experience now shows a primer pump at the tank bottom level, will
feed the volume needed. However, the volume of the high pressure pumps
must be satisfied and proper plumbing to prevent circular flow when one
pump fails. Your EFI manufacturer should have that information.
The 2 hi-pressure EFI pumps I have each have internal
check valves which I would rely on to prevent circular flow when one
pump fails or is turned offI am checking their flow rates so I
can be sure I order a Facet w/ sufficient flow rate.
> As you know, autos now have the high pressure pump in the fuel tank
and run pressure lines forward to the engine with the regulator after
the fuel rail which prevents starvation and priming problems. Problem
with our little aircraft is the fuel selector has to be forward of the
pumps because they are not normally pressure tested and submerged fuel
pumps are not possible. You probably have already reviewed SDS for
their fuel system installation notes, but if you haven't:
www.sdsefi.com <http://www.sdsefi.com/>. They really helped us with an
RV as well as the Jason Parker engines. Their stuff works. See their
cute little surge tank in their tech section. Small and affordable.
I had NOT been aware of their fuel installation
notesthanks for the referencevery helpful stuff.
>
> Cleaning the fuel line used to be done with denatured alcohol but
since auto fuel is now filled with ethanol and excellent cleaning and
plastic ruining addatives, I use plain old ethanol laced auto fuel for
my flushings.
Not knowing this, I put 15 gallons of ethanol-free
gasoline in the tankpaid a hefty premium over car gas to
bootoh well
> It does stain if you get a leak and it stinks a bit, but boy does it
clean the crud out of fuel lines that may have been sitting on the shelf
for a while. Not uncommon to get brown fuel out of an R-14 fuel
injection hose.
My hose is SAE J30 R9 fuel injection hose w/ the blue
Teflon linerit SEEMED to be clean as a whistle when I installed
it.
> Our procedure:
> Start with clean gas cans and fresh fuel always.
>
> 1. We fill the tank nearly full, about 15 gallons (and watch for leaks
in the fill neck and bosses).
> 2. Slosh the plane around
> 3. Lift the tail and disconnect the fuel line from the engine pump or
fuel regulator.
> 4. Look for static leaks again.
> 5. Turn on the electric boost pump (pumps about 30 gal per hour or
more).
> 6. Calibrate the fuel flow and sight gauge as appropriate.
> 7. Change 5 gallon tanks out.
> 8. When the fuel stops flowing out of the main, switch tanks and
exhaust again.
> 9. Refuel through a Mister Funnel or similar filtering fuel funnel.
> 10. Repeat two more times.
> Repair anything that is wet with fuel. Use care not to overtorque
fuel clamps and use the proper type if using other than automotive hose
(cheap kind you throw away after a few years).
Great procedurea keeper
Wish I could fly down to Sun =99N Fun but I=99
m wanting to push ahead here
Best to everyone who shows upBTW, had a GREAT
ride w/ Kevin Klinefelter two weeks ago when he demonstrated his
high-flying 914 above the High Sierras.
Fred
>
> Cheers Fred
> Bud
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Fred Klein <mailto:fklein@orcasonline.com>
> To: europa-list@matronics.com <mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2015 10:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Fueling
>
> Budyou wrote:
>>
>> Gascolators do not prime well. I would check for an air leak.
Andairs are well made and pull a vacuum. The standard diaphragm pump
does not pull air well enough for some brands.
>
> Budnow we begin to descend down the rabbit hole of the
testing and operational phase of a one-off, non-standard engine
installation...recall that my engine is MPEFI=99edmy two
(in parallel) fuel pumps are hi-pressure type and (apparently) do not
have the ability to =9Csuck=9D fuel on the input side..
>
>> If it won't prime the engine with 2.5 gallons on the ground, will it
do it in the air?
>
> An excellent questionfor which prudence requires an answer
=9Con the ground=9D.
>>
>> Ground Test war story: Ran the main dry, flipped to aux and it would
not self prime without more head pressure. Could not find a leak but
the gascolator was installed slightly above tank bottom level. With 10
gallons it would prime. It was a trigear. I know they have used
gascolators in a/c for ever, but they should be the lowest point in the
system. That is, the bowl outside, below the belly.
>
> With my mono resting on the LG & tail wheel, I=99m preparing a
diagram with measured elevations of the various points in the fuel
system starting from the tank outlet to the hi-pressure fuel pump
outletsHowever, by eye, it is apparent that the high point in
the system is the selector-valve-main-tank-outlet(selector
valve having been installed as per manual). At this stage of the game, I
have concerns that if main tank runs dry to exhaustion and I move
selector to reserve, will fuel continue to flow?
>>
>> That is why I don't use them and won't install one. To easy to screw
up. Besides, water does not condense in the tanks and filters work as
well.
>
> I=99ve been unaware of your thoughts on gascolatorsI
confess to have one solely because of the frequent mention of them on
this list and their apparent widespread use.
>
>> Most experimental takeoff accidents are fuel and engine related.
>
> I am indeed aware of that fact.
>
>> Make them flawless then test for fuel exhaustion, on one side then
switch and hopefully keep running.
>
> Exactly my intention...
>>
>> Clean your fuel lines before hooking to the engine. A common
assumption is the filter missed some dirt/ debris and the gascolators
just prior to the engine caught it. Flush and flush again.
>
> And what do you recommend for a cleaning agent?
>>
>> My two cents.
>
> Grossly undervaluedyour knowledge is priceless
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Fred
>
> PS: A local A&P recommends adding a Facet pump to ensure that fuel
gets to my hi-pressure pumpsmy engine builder recommends
bleeding the lines just upstream of the hi-pressure pumpsfor
the moment, I=99m looking for simplicity and reliability.
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>">http://www.matronhref=
<http://www.matronhref=>"http://forums.matronics.com
<http://forums.matronics.com/>">http://forums.matronics.com
<http://forums.matronics.com/>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>">http://www.matronics.com/c
<http://www.matronics.com/c>
>
>
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Miami Area Contacts |
It is possible that I may be transferred to the Miami area. I am planning
to be flying by then which makes the No 1 priority to find a home ...for my
Europa. (dont let the Mrs see this)
Can anyone suggest place to keep her? And ideally a contact.
Many thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
Message 4
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| Subject: | Loan of an open monowheel trailer |
Hi.
A friend of mine needs to move his monowheel Europa and his own trailer is
not available. Can you help ?
The details are that the trailer which for various reasons has to be the
open factory type is needed to move a Europa to the English midlands but
the trailer can be picked up from anywhere within reason,
The loan will only be for a couple of days.
If you can help please reply in the first instance to me and I will forward
your message ;
regards
Tim
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Sun N Fun 2015 |
Hi All!
The Engineering Meeting has a reserved spot at the traditional venue:
Hooters
3437 S Florida Ave
Lakeland, FL 33803
at 18:30 on Thursday 4/23
Be there or be square!
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441002#441002
Message 6
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| Subject: | Compressing Rubber Mounts |
I'm busy rehanging the engine with fresh rubber mounts.
Is there an easier way of compressing the rubber mounts such that you
can get the threads of each bolt to show through enough to put the
washers and nut on?
When I installed the engine first time round I seem to remember
struggling with some kind of clamp but I can't remember what I did now.
I figured this must be a common problem so perhaps I've missed a trick.
Any help would be appreciated.
Regards,
Martin Tuck
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Miami Area Contacts |
Thats funny William. If you leave her, you wont need a contact.
> On 19 Apr 2015, at 22:22, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wr
ote:
>
> It is possible that I may be transferred to the Miami area. I am planning
to be flying by then which makes the No 1 priority to find a home ...for my
Europa. (dont let the Mrs see this)
> Can anyone suggest place to keep her? And ideally a contact.
> Many thanks
> Will
>
> William Daniell
> LONGPORT
> +57 310 295 0744
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Miami Area Contacts |
I meant keep, not leave.
> On 19 Apr 2015, at 22:22, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wr
ote:
>
> It is possible that I may be transferred to the Miami area. I am planning
to be flying by then which makes the No 1 priority to find a home ...for my
Europa. (dont let the Mrs see this)
> Can anyone suggest place to keep her? And ideally a contact.
> Many thanks
> Will
>
> William Daniell
> LONGPORT
> +57 310 295 0744
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Compressing Rubber Mounts |
What compressing? I don't understand. Admittedly I have a Classic with a different
engine cradle frame, but I can't conceive that the Lord mounts would be greatly
different. Yes they are fiddly and difficult to assemble and keep from falling
apart while trying to hang the engine bearer onto the undercarriage frame,
but if the engine is suspended at a suitable angle using straps and a hoist,
with slow careful manoeuvring it all comes together until enough thread pokes
through to engage the nuts on the bolts.
The last time I did this (about the 5th time), I fastened little cable tie-wraps
tightly around the bolt shanks after assembling the Lord mounts into the engine
bearer. This helped to minimise the tendency of the Lord mount assemblies
to disintegrate while manoeuvring.
Slowly and carefully seemed to work for me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441011#441011
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Europaowners.org website |
Gents,
Does anyone know if your albums/pictures can be downloaded other than individually?
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Apr 19, 2015, at 3:17 AM, alan_hunter1664 <alan_hunter1664@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks Nigel,
I'ts disappointing and worrisome that they are going to shut the site down completely
at some point but don't give any indication when.
Many thanks
Alan
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Compressing Rubber Mounts |
Thanks Jonathon,
The instructions say that the four AN5-40 mounting bolts must be
tightened fully to compress the rubber anti-vibration mounts (MT04) onto
the steel spacers MT03. That is the compressing I refer to. There is
probably about .20 inch of compression needed on each rubber mount -
about .40 inch in total which is about the about amount of thread needed
to allow the nut to grab once the washers are on. In their 'relaxed
state' when assembled there isn't enough thread poking through to engage
the nuts on the bolts.
I assume that the steel spacers set the distance between the large cap
washers MT02.
I can use longer bolts to get the rubbers compressed and then I like the
idea of the tie wraps to keep them compressed while I switch out the
bolts to the correct length ones.
I think later manuals call out AN4-41 bolts so I suspect this was a
problem in the past.
Martin
On 4/19/2015 6:49 PM, jonathanmilbank wrote:
>
> What compressing? I don't understand. Admittedly I have a Classic with a different
engine cradle frame, but I can't conceive that the Lord mounts would be
greatly different. Yes they are fiddly and difficult to assemble and keep from
falling apart while trying to hang the engine bearer onto the undercarriage frame,
but if the engine is suspended at a suitable angle using straps and a hoist,
with slow careful manoeuvring it all comes together until enough thread pokes
through to engage the nuts on the bolts.
>
> The last time I did this (about the 5th time), I fastened little cable tie-wraps
tightly around the bolt shanks after assembling the Lord mounts into the engine
bearer. This helped to minimise the tendency of the Lord mount assemblies
to disintegrate while manoeuvring.
>
> Slowly and carefully seemed to work for me.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441011#441011
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Miami Area Contacts |
Nice one....
On Apr 19, 2015 5:35 PM, "Tony Renshaw" <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
> I meant keep, not leave.
>
> On 19 Apr 2015, at 22:22, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> It is possible that I may be transferred to the Miami area. I am planning
> to be flying by then which makes the No 1 priority to find a home ...for my
> Europa. (dont let the Mrs see this)
> Can anyone suggest place to keep her? And ideally a contact.
> Many thanks
> Will
>
> William Daniell
> LONGPORT
> +57 310 295 0744
>
> *
>
> D============================================
> a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
> D============================================
> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> D============================================
> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> D============================================
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Compressing Rubber Mounts |
Hi Martin, I remember having the exact problem you describe when I built mine -
the uncompressed assembly being longer then the bl@@dy bolts!
I seem to remember assembling and compressing the mounts in a vice off the aircraft
with the nuts and bolts, binding them tightly with locking wire, removing
the bolts, assembling onto the aircraft, snipping the locking wire off then finally
tightening them permanently. (Then finding the whole things got to come
off again for something else....!). Took a while to perfect the technique
and doubtless most other people have got a far more elegant method.....!
--------
G-TERN
Classic Mono
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441032#441032
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Sun N Fun 2015 |
Ira,
I hope someone will "Record the Minutes" and distribute appropriate
pictures to those of us not able to attend.
....oh, ... and don't worry if one or two of the servers should happen
to appear in the background!
Nigel
On 19/04/2015 18:41, rampil wrote:
>
> Hi All!
>
> The Engineering Meeting has a reserved spot at the traditional venue:
>
> Hooters
> 3437 S Florida Ave
> Lakeland, FL 33803
>
>
> at 18:30 on Thursday 4/23
>
> Be there or be square!
>
> --------
> Ira N224XS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441002#441002
>
>
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