Today's Message Index:
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1. 12:09 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/14/15 (John Archer)
2. 08:38 AM - Re: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/14/15 |
Sent from my iPad
> On 15 May 2015, at 09:03, Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list@matronics.com>
wrote:
>
> *
>
> =================================================
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> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Europa-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu 05/14/15: 3
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 12:22 PM - Re: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff (Richard
Collings)
> 2. 12:38 PM - FWF Seal (spcialeffects)
> 3. 01:14 PM - Re: FWF Seal (Alan Burrill)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:22:10 PM PST US
> From: "Richard Collings" <rcollings@talktalk.net>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
>
>
> Hi Gilles & Brian
> Watching your email thread I would like to add my 2 pennies, I was aware
> that there was a problem with exhaust gasses entering the cabin through the
> flap slots on each side of the fuselage so I made a bulk head from the rear
> of the baggage bay floor to the floor of the aircraft [in 2 pieces] I am
> going to seal them air tight with foam rubber so that under the baggage bay
> is air tight to the cabin.
> I have had only one problem associated with engine smells from the start and
> that is a smell of fuel when I switch on the electric fuel pump. Fuel
> pressure remain the same with fuel pump no or off. No leaks found so far its
> very strange.
> Regards
> Richard
> G-CGZV Tri-gear 912ul 115hrs
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Davies
> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 10:46 AM
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
>
>
> Hi Gilles,
>
> I think leather bellows is probably the way to go. I have been chasing
> higher than normal CO levels on my aircraft, hence the research into
> airflows from the engine compartment. I have been looking at bellows around
> the pitch tube behind the baggage bay to close off the airflow through the
> flap slots and forward through the tunnel. I am ,however, struggling to
> understand why I should have a problem on my aircraft when others are not
> reporting problems.
>
> The trouble with measuring CO with a digital sensor is that once you know
> the reading you feel you should do something about it, even if it is within
> limits. I am getting 11 - 20 ppm in cruise and up to 35ppm on approach with
> the flaps down, with a normal limit of 50ppm for GA aircraft but zero would
> be better!
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GTH
> Sent: 12 May 2015 23:31
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
>
>
> Brian,
>
> Thank you for the information.
>> I know it is good aero practice to have a gas tight FWL but on the
>> Europa, with rudder cables passing through it, it is actually impossible
> to achieve.
>
> I would have thought that it could be easily addressed with leather bellows,
> like on vintage aircraft.
>
>> Also the external airflow from the engine area can attach to the lower
>> fuselage and enter the flap slots.
>
> This one beats me, but when there is a will there is a way...
>
> Best regards,
> Gilles
> http://contrails.free.fr
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:38:27 PM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: FWF Seal
> From: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects@aol.com>
>
>
> Hi all. Could someone please tell me what this sealing material is called and
possibly
> where i might buy some, Many thanks
> http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=79612
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442108#442108
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:14:12 PM PST US
> From: Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: FWF Seal
>
> Looks like;
>
> Silicone Baffle Seal
>
>
> here: http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=T01VKIAZ1
>
> alan
> On 14 May 2015, at 20:37, spcialeffects <spcialeffects@aol.com> wrote:
>
> <spcialeffects@aol.com>
>>
>> Hi all. Could someone please tell me what this sealing material is
> called and possibly where i might buy some, Many thanks
>> http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=79612
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442108#442108
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff |
The nose up attitude is likely to fill the breather outlet if tank full
on T/O although a balanced turn shouldn't fill one side or the other.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2015-05-15 21:25, Justin Kennedy wrote:
> HI Guys,
>
> I am a bit reluctant to stick my neck out but I have a possible reason and solution
for your smelly climbs.
>
> When my Europa was about 2 years old, 9 years now, We had the same problem with
fuel smell after take-off and came to a conclusion which has not been mentioned
in the discussions on this subject. So here goes.
>
> We think it depends on which side you fuel tank vent is on. In this example the
vent is in the usual place on the Starboard side top front corner of the tank.
So as you climb out into a right hand circuit the right wing is going to be
lower than the left for long periods. The fuel in the tank slurps to the right.
The result is a pocket of air trapped on the upper left side of the tank.
The size of the pocket of air is dependent on how full the tank is at the time.
As the plane climbs the pressure drops and the pocket of air expands. Assuming
the fuel is covering the actual fuel vent on the right then there is nowhere
for the fuel to go other than up the vent and pour over the back of the fuselage.
I think that it is this that creates the smell of fuel that only lasts a
short time. We experienced this phenomenon with ours and noticed there was no
smell if the tanks were less than about 1/2 full.
>
> Also trying to reproduce the problem was easy. After take-off with nearly full
tanks I flew a long gently curved climb to the right which promptly obliged
with a strong fuel smell. As a result we put in an additional vent on the other
side of the tank.
>
> There have been no fuel smells in the climb since.
>
> Those with this smell could try this and then do it again with 1/2 tanks.
>
> Also level up in the climb out every now and then to release the air to the vent
on the right and see if it stops it.
>
> Obviously your vents may be different but you can apply the theory.
>
> There are numerous potential sites for a fuel leak but when it is only in the
climb it has got to be climb related. I notice everyone is most specific about
it happening in the climb.
>
> I may be talking bunk but it is surely worth discussion J.
>
> Fly safe
>
> Justin Kennedy
>
> G-ZTED Europa Mono 912S Airmaster Prop
>
> East of Scotland Strut
>
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