---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 07/25/15: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:36 AM - Re: Re: Charging System (Nigel Graham) 2. 05:17 AM - Re: Camloc for cowling (William Daniell) 3. 06:27 AM - Re: Re: Charging System (Greg Fuchs) 4. 09:51 AM - Re: Re: Charging System (Richard Holder) 5. 01:45 PM - Rudder springs (AirEupora) 6. 03:26 PM - Re: Re: Charging System (Greg Fuchs) 7. 06:01 PM - Re: Rudder springs (Lance Sandford) 8. 07:27 PM - Re: Rudder springs (AirEupora) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:02 AM PST US From: Nigel Graham Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Charging System Alan, This does not need to be a big problem at all. There are some relatively simple checks you can run to establish whether the alternator is a fault or not. If you have the use of a good quality multimeter, measure the resistance between the two YELLOW leads to the charging coils of the alternator, that can be found at the multi pin plug on the top of the engine. You should get a reading of between 0.1 and 0.8 ohms (this is a very low value so you will need an accurate DVM/AVO/multimeter). If the resistance is below this, the insulation on the coils could have begun to fail and the windings short to each other. If the value is infinity, then the coils have failed completely - both will require a new stator. Check also each YELLOW wire to ground. The correct value should be infinity. If you get any reading, then the windings have shorted to ground (though this unlikely, as you are getting some charge at the moment). If you would like to learn more, download the Rotax 912/914 "Heavy MaintenanceManual" from the following site (foc): http://www.rotax-owner.com/en/support-topmenu/engine-manuals Refer to Section 74 Read Chapter 3.7 (on page 16) for an explanation Compare the results with the values found in chapter 3.12 (on page 22) That should keep you amused for the weekend! Nigel On 24/07/2015 22:18, Alan Carter wrote: > > Hi Greg. > This is becoming a big problem, I can see the panel voltmeter move slightly as I increase power, but you are right its not maintaining my battery. > With the volt meter across the battery at cruise power its only 12.8v. > Now we come to fixing it, sodding built in intricate mag/alternator on the back of the engine, > I was expecting a bolt on Alternator replacement unit, insert the shaft and tighten up the 4 bolts , JOB DONE, same as the a tyre change on bloody main wheels, have to unlock and unbolt the disc to change a tyre, > Took me longer to do the wire locking than it did to fit the new tyre. > WHY ?? > > Anybody repaired the Alternator on the 914. > > Regards . > Alan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445165#445165 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:54 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Camloc for cowling From: William Daniell Thanks Greg. .very helpful Will On 24 Jul 2015 07:33, "Greg Fuchs" wrote: > Similar to camloc, I used southco fasteners (on the upper to lower cowl > only, since it will be removed often) as pointed out in mod 10405 by > Nigel Charles (found on the Europa club website). They allow the cowling > to install quickly. My fasteners didn't perectly match the shape of the > bowl in the tinnerman washers. Possibly the shape changed over time. They > will not 'quite' sit flat. I pounded the southco into the tinnerman with a > hammer using a formed backing to give it more 'like a glove' fit. > Washers or shims can be used on the receptacle to allow the same length > fastener at all attachment points. > They can be lost easily, since they are not anchored to the cowling when > it is removed off the aircraft. Work however, they do (said Yoda). > > For those who use this mod, plan to lay plies to keep the two cowling > flanges in line with each other as pointed out else-where (lower cowlings > single flange sandwiches into upper cowling double flange). That way, the > fasteners poking through the upper cowling don't have to reach far to gra b > the receptacle in the lower cowling. Reach far, they won't. (oh boy..must > be tired) > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *William Daniell > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 11:34 AM > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Europa-List: Camloc for cowling > > has anyone used camloc fasteners on the cowling? > thanks > Will > > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ">http://www.matronhref ="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://for ums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution ">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > =========== tronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:21 AM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Charging System Alan, I would tend to agree with Richard that the likelihood is that your problem is not in the generator but in the wiring or Regulator . 12.8V at cruise is better, and will probably keep the bird in the air, but it is not quite adequate. If you could let us know your overall current usage, that would help decide if the generator/regulator is close to its power output limit. Richard-or anrman, you tried 4 new Regulators, WOW! Why did they not work for you, and was it related to the 5 Cycle/second current pulses? (I will need to get a new one at some point). Interesting point about the analog gauge.. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Holder Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 3:01 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Charging System --> On 24/07/2015 22:18, Alan Carter wrote: > > Hi Greg. This is becoming a big problem, I can see the panel voltmeter > move slightly as I increase power, but you are right its not > maintaining my battery. With the volt meter across the battery at > cruise power its only 12.8v. Now we come to fixing it, sodding built > in intricate mag/alternator on the back of the engine, I was expecting > a bolt on Alternator replacement unit, insert the shaft and tighten up > the 4 bolts , JOB DONE, same as the a tyre change on bloody main > wheels, have to unlock and unbolt the disc to change a tyre, Took me > longer to do the wire locking than it did to fit the new tyre. WHY ?? > > Anybody repaired the Alternator on the 914. i am going to offer my 10 cents worth These problems are why you need to have an ammeter AND a voltmeter to give sufficient information. Ammeters can either show current in and out of the battery (with a -30 0 +30 type scale), or measure the current out of the alternator (0 +30 scale). In and out of the battery is more useful. And i go further and say that digital meters only sample maybe 5 times a second. You need analogue meters with pointers. Without my analogue ammeter I would not have known that my charging system was fluctuating from 2 to 10 amps on a 5 cycles per second basis. I tried 4 new rectifier/regulators and they were all the same. Apparently they had changed the design ! I put a Schicke regulator on and all was well. I did try a used but older R/R and it was fine as had been my original. Electrics are really simple but you have to go back to first principles and understand what is actually happening. The stator on the flywheel is very reliable. The wiring and R/R are not. I would do comprehensive checks on the wiring and the R/R (and maybe the rest of your electrics) befor eeven considering fiddling with the stator. Is the body of your R/R earthed ? Richard Holder aka anrman :-) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Charging System From: Richard Holder On 25/07/2015 14:26, Greg Fuchs wrote: > Richard-or anrman, you tried 4 new Regulators, WOW! Why did they not work > for you, and was it related to the 5 Cycle/second current pulses? (I will > need to get a new one at some point). Interesting point about the analog > gauge.. > Regards, > Greg I know I was amazed ! My first (Ducati) R/R died at 175 hours. I bought one from the Rotax importers in the UK. When connected up to exactly the same wiring as the original one the (analogue) ammeter needle vibrated between 2 and 10 amps 5 times per second. This meant that the voltage was moving between 14v and someting else (16v ?) on the same frequency, but the voltmeter needle is damped and so it didn't show up. I sent it back and got another. Same result. Bought one from Lockwood in the US, same result, and sent it back, and the replacement did the same. OK at this point I really thought it was me or the plane. Then borrowed an older R/R from someone else. No vibration. Unfortunately it was only a loan ! What i decided was that at some point they changed the circuit and after that date the voltages were controlled differently. I did have an approx date for that cut off (the manufacture date is stamped on the casing) but i don't have it to hand. Sometime around 2005 I think. As I say it may just be me, but my analogue needles showed me something that digital wouldn't have shown; and nor would a voltmeter (or an ammeter) alone. So I bought a Schicke. Slightly lower max current but a whacking great heat sink. That has done 600 hours now with no problem or vibration whatsoever (I expect because I have a spare which I carry in the aircraft !) Apparently there is a Deere Tractor R/R which is built like a br*ck-sh*thouse which also works and has spare capacity for ever and ever. I found that on Google somewhere. Sorry about the rant. I was worse at the time; you have re-awakened my thinking on this ! HTH Richard > i am going to offer my 10 cents worth > > These problems are why you need to have an ammeter AND a voltmeter to give > sufficient information. Ammeters can either show current in and out of the > battery (with a -30 0 +30 type scale), or measure the current out of the > alternator (0 +30 scale). In and out of the battery is more useful. > > And i go further and say that digital meters only sample maybe 5 times a > second. You need analogue meters with pointers. Without my analogue ammeter > I would not have known that my charging system was fluctuating from 2 to 10 > amps on a 5 cycles per second basis. > > I tried 4 new rectifier/regulators and they were all the same. Apparently > they had changed the design ! I put a Schicke regulator on and all was well. > I did try a used but older R/R and it was fine as had been my original. > > Electrics are really simple but you have to go back to first principles and > understand what is actually happening. > > The stator on the flywheel is very reliable. The wiring and R/R are not. I > would do comprehensive checks on the wiring and the R/R (and maybe the rest > of your electrics) befor eeven considering fiddling with the stator. > > Is the body of your R/R earthed ? > > Richard Holder > aka anrman :-) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:06 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Rudder springs From: "AirEupora" Not the ones on the training wheel in back. I need a stronger right rudder return spring (T41780) and forgot to measure it today. Anybody have the length of the spring that is attached to the rudder pedals. I'd like to place an order with Aircraft Spruce. I'm seeing a 2"; 4 1/2"; then a 10 " and longer. Rick Stockton N120EJ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445190#445190 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:43 PM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Charging System Richard, Wow, looks like you went through the regulation ringer. It may not feel like it to you, since not enough time has passed :) but it Looks like facts and not rant to me (Wonderful, beautiful, can't get enough of them, facts! -left-brain is jumping for joy here) I wonder if the re-designed regulator was more sensitive to something in your system. small capacitor/weak battery, etc. OOPs, didn't mean to drag you back there, quick-change the topic! Uhhh...Boy that weather sure is good! :) Thanks much for the info. If you still have the R/R Deere tractor info, I would love more info on it. Maybe offline? Greg A050 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Holder Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:50 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Charging System ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:44 PM PST US From: Lance Sandford Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder springs Rick This looks like the beast. Same measurements as mine. All you need is a retailer. http://www.asraymond.com/us.html?cid=bc-looped-ends&id=T41780 Regards Lance Sandford in OZ On 26/07/15 06:44, AirEupora wrote: > > Not the ones on the training wheel in back. I need a stronger right rudder return spring (T41780) and forgot to measure it today. Anybody have the length of the spring that is attached to the rudder pedals. I'd like to place an order with Aircraft Spruce. I'm seeing a 2"; 4 1/2"; then a 10 " and longer. > > Rick Stockton > N120EJ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445190#445190 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:17 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Rudder springs From: "AirEupora" Thanks just what I needed. 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