Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:48 AM - Re: vent pipes (Rick Moss)
2. 01:03 AM - Re: Re: vent pipes (Bob Harrison)
3. 01:11 AM - Re: vent pipes (Rick Moss)
4. 02:16 AM - Re: Re: vent pipes (bill)
5. 05:43 AM - Re: vent pipes (Bud Yerly)
6. 06:04 AM - Re: Re: Charging System (Bud Yerly)
7. 01:33 PM - Re: Charging System (Alan Carter)
Message 1
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That sounds interesting Graham;
My vent comes out of the tank, run horizontally to the bulkhead behind the baggage
bay, then loops upwards over the top of the fuselage and down the other side
to vent through the underside. When filling, if I get the fuel level too close
to the filler cap, it starts a syphon through the vent that is hard to stop
until it's dumped a couple of litres of fuel. I've been trying to think of a
way to break the syphon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445326#445326
Message 2
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Hi! Rick,
Mine follows the same route as yours but I have a bottle slightly down from
centre on the starboard side so over fill will be piped back to tank, then
out the back of the bottle near the roof centre another pipe runs down to
exit the port flap hinge slot. That will break your siphon.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Moss
Sent: 29 July 2015 08:47
Subject: Europa-List: Re: vent pipes
That sounds interesting Graham;
My vent comes out of the tank, run horizontally to the bulkhead behind the
baggage bay, then loops upwards over the top of the fuselage and down the
other side to vent through the underside. When filling, if I get the fuel
level too close to the filler cap, it starts a syphon through the vent that
is hard to stop until it's dumped a couple of litres of fuel. I've been
trying to think of a way to break the syphon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445326#445326
Message 3
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I see what you mean Bob, thanks. Presumably simply T'ing the breather soon after
it exits (enters?) the tank and routing the branch to the top of the cobra would
achieve the same, at least whilst the filler cap is removed?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445329#445329
Message 4
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My vent runs from the tank to the top of the filler pipe just below the
cap level. A second pipe runs from the top of the filler pipe and down
to the bottom of the fuselage with a flush static vent.
Cannot syphon as the line is effectively broken in the top of the filler
pipe and will not leak fuel inverted if there is no damage.
1200hrs no issues.
Sue and Bill Sisley
ZK CHV
On 29/07/2015 8:02 p.m., Bob Harrison wrote:
>
> Hi! Rick,
> Mine follows the same route as yours but I have a bottle slightly down from
> centre on the starboard side so over fill will be piped back to tank, then
> out the back of the bottle near the roof centre another pipe runs down to
> exit the port flap hinge slot. That will break your siphon.
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Moss
> Sent: 29 July 2015 08:47
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: vent pipes
>
>
> That sounds interesting Graham;
>
> My vent comes out of the tank, run horizontally to the bulkhead behind the
> baggage bay, then loops upwards over the top of the fuselage and down the
> other side to vent through the underside. When filling, if I get the fuel
> level too close to the filler cap, it starts a syphon through the vent that
> is hard to stop until it's dumped a couple of litres of fuel. I've been
> trying to think of a way to break the syphon.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445326#445326
>
>
Message 5
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Steve,
As you have seen on my website, I run a vent line from the tank to the
top of the Cobra neck area about 2 inches down from the filler neck
(that allows expansion or overfilling to clear out of the Cobra). On
the other side of the neck I run a 1/4 inch line to the vent in the gear
truss well. I believe you are having issues with filling the tank and
the slow fill rate of the Cobra neck. Most of the tank venting will
take the path of least resistance which is vent out of the fuel cap when
filling and will occasionally (always) result in a lovely cool fuel
shower.
Provided your 2 inch boss attaching the rubber hose to the Cobra has
been properly reamed out to allow a full flow. (Some do not trim this
inner molding out to increase the area, which is stronger for those who
over tighten clamps, but reduces the tank inlet diameter.):
Two things will help prevent a blow back of fuel.
First, A 3/8=9D max line (I use 5/16=9D) does help vent the
air out quickly. The problem is where is your vent line run? If it
runs to the Cobra first, you must make sure as you are filling, the vent
line remains clear. Not so easy to do. If the vent is to the top or
bottom of the aircraft direct from the tank, it would be prudent to run
3/8 inch until fairly close to the vent then to the 1/4 inch vent.
Choose your fittings carefully as a 3/8 by 1/8 NPT fitting may only have
a 1/4 inch ID on some brass fittings. Choose wisely.
Second. A short (12=9D) piece of 1 inch ID polyurethane clear
tubing is what I use to attach to the fuel nozzle from the fuel truck.
I place the polyurethane tube on the trucks nozzle and insert the
flexible tube into the Cobra. This does two things. 1. It is a visual
indication of the fuel burping back into the hose allowing me to stop or
reduce flow. I never fuel at a rate that completely fills the clear
tube. When near completely full, the tube fills and holds the fuel
after I stop the nozzle, if the 12 inch line stays full, I retract it
slowly and the remaining fuel in the line tops me to my vent line.
Second, it keeps my tank to Cobra (and sight gauge vent line) clear of
the incoming fuel. No burps unless I go full throttle at 100 GPM that
the truck delivers, then it is fuel bath time.
Jim Brown is to credit for this, he used a 24 inch tube which he would
force down into the Cobra quite far on his mono. He showed me that by
first squirting some fuel in the Cobra to pre lube it, the tube slid in
quite easily and gratifying. He could fill at a much higher rate and
rarely had a burp back. The longer line also allowed him to hold the
nozzle at chest height for more comfortable fuelling. I just like the
12 inch long one as it fits in the headrest easily.
Try the inexpensive 1 inch flexible polyurethane (or similar in the UK)
and a bit of patience and it works for me and the line boys quite well
on our blind filling of the Europa Tank...
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
From: Steven Pitt
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: vent pipes
Thanks as ever Graham. Did you make up any of your vent pipe
bosses/fittings that I have seen in photos some while ago?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: vent pipes
Steve
I would suggest using 3/8 aluminium from tank to the top of the cobra,
then 1/4" to the outside air. That way
any splashing goes back into the tank. I used -6 AN fittings
Graham
On Monday, 27 July 2015, 14:57, Steven Pitt
<steven.pitt2@ntlworld.com> wrote:
<steven.pitt2@ntlworld.com>
I am looking to increase the size of my fuel vent pipes for my
trigear. What
sizes have others used. The Europa supplied
pipetp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"
target="_blank">http://www.bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Charging System |
Alan and All:
Good advise has been given by all.
I have had a number of Europa's that had problems with their charging. Most
of it self inflicted, as we prefer to hook our Control wire to a switch to
be able to shut off our regulator.
It could be your stator is going south. I doubt it, but it happened to me
as my 914 is one of those originally with the defective stator. The ohm
meter checks of the stator will tell you that. Get familiar with the Rotax
install manual, and SBs.
As for the regulator. You will kill the regulator quickly if the control
wire is not reading battery voltage exactly.
If your regulator control wire reads 12 volts and your battery 12.5 v with
the engine off, in operation, during charging, the regulator will be reading
an under voltage (that 1/2 volt) and will attempt to increase the charge
rate to read 13.8 volts. This rapidly overheats the regulator and it will
die. The regulator recommended wiring is for the battery terminal (B+) the
Regulator (R) and the Control (C) all to be hooked together. The control of
the alternator is to be through a switch breaker or as some of us do, a 30
amp relay with fuse/CB in line to allow us to control our alternator on /
off.
I to killed my first regulator by not noting the small voltage drop (running
a #18 wire from the control through a connector/plug to my buss via a split
master switch). This small voltage drop kept my output below 13.8 and the
poor Ducati was killing itself to charge at its designed voltage. It didn't
help my PC680 battery either.
Try hooking the regulator RBC wires together and check voltage. It is a lot
cheaper than a $1000 stator and the 4-6 hours to change it minimum. It will
keep your battery, and busses happy with the 13.8 volts.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Carter
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 12:30 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Charging System
Hello All.
Having received a private mail on how to check the Regulator of the 914
using the two brown wires connecting to terminal G.
With engine running states 15 to 20 VAC at idle, I am getting 13.5 v at 2000
rpm so below the 15.
And at high rpm should be between 30 to 40 VAC , at 4000 rpm I was getting
26v so again below the 30.
So with the above in mind, points to the Alternator rather than the
Regulator, ?????
You Comments Please.
PS, On New Battery just installed, Aircrafts Panel voltmeter at cruise
reads only 12.4 v never ever seen it at 13v
Regards.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445154#445154
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Charging System |
Hi Bob.
Last time we posted was on fitting wheel bearings etc,
Well I have done the main wheel plus new tyres, It was well within my capabilities,
however the nose wheel looks a bit more complicated, ??
My Electrics, just have the standard 18 amp generator on the rear of the engine,
the two wires to the G terminal on the regulator,
ie what my generator is putting out, is 13.5v at idle say 1800 rpm and 26v at high
rpm say 4000 rpm, so to me this seems enough volts to charge the battery,
so the regulator looks more the problem,
I have never seen my panel voltmeter showing 13v even with all the avionics switched
off,
A new regulator in the UK is about 87
So maybe the way for me to go is just fit a new one, at 69 and looking at my finger,
my time is more important than the money.
Regards
Alan.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445371#445371
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