---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/29/15: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:48 AM - Re: vent pipes (Rick Moss) 2. 01:03 AM - Re: Re: vent pipes (Bob Harrison) 3. 01:11 AM - Re: vent pipes (Rick Moss) 4. 02:16 AM - Re: Re: vent pipes (bill) 5. 05:43 AM - Re: vent pipes (Bud Yerly) 6. 06:04 AM - Re: Re: Charging System (Bud Yerly) 7. 01:33 PM - Re: Charging System (Alan Carter) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:48:03 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: vent pipes From: "Rick Moss" That sounds interesting Graham; My vent comes out of the tank, run horizontally to the bulkhead behind the baggage bay, then loops upwards over the top of the fuselage and down the other side to vent through the underside. When filling, if I get the fuel level too close to the filler cap, it starts a syphon through the vent that is hard to stop until it's dumped a couple of litres of fuel. I've been trying to think of a way to break the syphon. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445326#445326 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:12 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: vent pipes Hi! Rick, Mine follows the same route as yours but I have a bottle slightly down from centre on the starboard side so over fill will be piped back to tank, then out the back of the bottle near the roof centre another pipe runs down to exit the port flap hinge slot. That will break your siphon. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Moss Sent: 29 July 2015 08:47 Subject: Europa-List: Re: vent pipes That sounds interesting Graham; My vent comes out of the tank, run horizontally to the bulkhead behind the baggage bay, then loops upwards over the top of the fuselage and down the other side to vent through the underside. When filling, if I get the fuel level too close to the filler cap, it starts a syphon through the vent that is hard to stop until it's dumped a couple of litres of fuel. I've been trying to think of a way to break the syphon. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445326#445326 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:41 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: vent pipes From: "Rick Moss" I see what you mean Bob, thanks. Presumably simply T'ing the breather soon after it exits (enters?) the tank and routing the branch to the top of the cobra would achieve the same, at least whilst the filler cap is removed? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445329#445329 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:16:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: vent pipes From: bill My vent runs from the tank to the top of the filler pipe just below the cap level. A second pipe runs from the top of the filler pipe and down to the bottom of the fuselage with a flush static vent. Cannot syphon as the line is effectively broken in the top of the filler pipe and will not leak fuel inverted if there is no damage. 1200hrs no issues. Sue and Bill Sisley ZK CHV On 29/07/2015 8:02 p.m., Bob Harrison wrote: > > Hi! Rick, > Mine follows the same route as yours but I have a bottle slightly down from > centre on the starboard side so over fill will be piped back to tank, then > out the back of the bottle near the roof centre another pipe runs down to > exit the port flap hinge slot. That will break your siphon. > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Moss > Sent: 29 July 2015 08:47 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Re: vent pipes > > > That sounds interesting Graham; > > My vent comes out of the tank, run horizontally to the bulkhead behind the > baggage bay, then loops upwards over the top of the fuselage and down the > other side to vent through the underside. When filling, if I get the fuel > level too close to the filler cap, it starts a syphon through the vent that > is hard to stop until it's dumped a couple of litres of fuel. I've been > trying to think of a way to break the syphon. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445326#445326 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:51 AM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: vent pipes Steve, As you have seen on my website, I run a vent line from the tank to the top of the Cobra neck area about 2 inches down from the filler neck (that allows expansion or overfilling to clear out of the Cobra). On the other side of the neck I run a 1/4 inch line to the vent in the gear truss well. I believe you are having issues with filling the tank and the slow fill rate of the Cobra neck. Most of the tank venting will take the path of least resistance which is vent out of the fuel cap when filling and will occasionally (always) result in a lovely cool fuel shower. Provided your 2 inch boss attaching the rubber hose to the Cobra has been properly reamed out to allow a full flow. (Some do not trim this inner molding out to increase the area, which is stronger for those who over tighten clamps, but reduces the tank inlet diameter.): Two things will help prevent a blow back of fuel. First, A 3/8=9D max line (I use 5/16=9D) does help vent the air out quickly. The problem is where is your vent line run? If it runs to the Cobra first, you must make sure as you are filling, the vent line remains clear. Not so easy to do. If the vent is to the top or bottom of the aircraft direct from the tank, it would be prudent to run 3/8 inch until fairly close to the vent then to the 1/4 inch vent. Choose your fittings carefully as a 3/8 by 1/8 NPT fitting may only have a 1/4 inch ID on some brass fittings. Choose wisely. Second. A short (12=9D) piece of 1 inch ID polyurethane clear tubing is what I use to attach to the fuel nozzle from the fuel truck. I place the polyurethane tube on the trucks nozzle and insert the flexible tube into the Cobra. This does two things. 1. It is a visual indication of the fuel burping back into the hose allowing me to stop or reduce flow. I never fuel at a rate that completely fills the clear tube. When near completely full, the tube fills and holds the fuel after I stop the nozzle, if the 12 inch line stays full, I retract it slowly and the remaining fuel in the line tops me to my vent line. Second, it keeps my tank to Cobra (and sight gauge vent line) clear of the incoming fuel. No burps unless I go full throttle at 100 GPM that the truck delivers, then it is fuel bath time. Jim Brown is to credit for this, he used a 24 inch tube which he would force down into the Cobra quite far on his mono. He showed me that by first squirting some fuel in the Cobra to pre lube it, the tube slid in quite easily and gratifying. He could fill at a much higher rate and rarely had a burp back. The longer line also allowed him to hold the nozzle at chest height for more comfortable fuelling. I just like the 12 inch long one as it fits in the headrest easily. Try the inexpensive 1 inch flexible polyurethane (or similar in the UK) and a bit of patience and it works for me and the line boys quite well on our blind filling of the Europa Tank... Best Regards, Bud Yerly Best Regards, Bud Yerly From: Steven Pitt Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 6:45 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: vent pipes Thanks as ever Graham. Did you make up any of your vent pipe bosses/fittings that I have seen in photos some while ago? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: GRAHAM SINGLETON To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 6:06 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: vent pipes Steve I would suggest using 3/8 aluminium from tank to the top of the cobra, then 1/4" to the outside air. That way any splashing goes back into the tank. I used -6 AN fittings Graham On Monday, 27 July 2015, 14:57, Steven Pitt wrote: I am looking to increase the size of my fuel vent pipes for my trigear. What sizes have others used. The Europa supplied pipetp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank">http://www.bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:14 AM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Charging System Alan and All: Good advise has been given by all. I have had a number of Europa's that had problems with their charging. Most of it self inflicted, as we prefer to hook our Control wire to a switch to be able to shut off our regulator. It could be your stator is going south. I doubt it, but it happened to me as my 914 is one of those originally with the defective stator. The ohm meter checks of the stator will tell you that. Get familiar with the Rotax install manual, and SBs. As for the regulator. You will kill the regulator quickly if the control wire is not reading battery voltage exactly. If your regulator control wire reads 12 volts and your battery 12.5 v with the engine off, in operation, during charging, the regulator will be reading an under voltage (that 1/2 volt) and will attempt to increase the charge rate to read 13.8 volts. This rapidly overheats the regulator and it will die. The regulator recommended wiring is for the battery terminal (B+) the Regulator (R) and the Control (C) all to be hooked together. The control of the alternator is to be through a switch breaker or as some of us do, a 30 amp relay with fuse/CB in line to allow us to control our alternator on / off. I to killed my first regulator by not noting the small voltage drop (running a #18 wire from the control through a connector/plug to my buss via a split master switch). This small voltage drop kept my output below 13.8 and the poor Ducati was killing itself to charge at its designed voltage. It didn't help my PC680 battery either. Try hooking the regulator RBC wires together and check voltage. It is a lot cheaper than a $1000 stator and the 4-6 hours to change it minimum. It will keep your battery, and busses happy with the 13.8 volts. Regards, Bud Yerly -----Original Message----- From: Alan Carter Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 12:30 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Charging System Hello All. Having received a private mail on how to check the Regulator of the 914 using the two brown wires connecting to terminal G. With engine running states 15 to 20 VAC at idle, I am getting 13.5 v at 2000 rpm so below the 15. And at high rpm should be between 30 to 40 VAC , at 4000 rpm I was getting 26v so again below the 30. So with the above in mind, points to the Alternator rather than the Regulator, ????? You Comments Please. PS, On New Battery just installed, Aircrafts Panel voltmeter at cruise reads only 12.4 v never ever seen it at 13v Regards. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445154#445154 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:33:44 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Charging System From: "Alan Carter" Hi Bob. Last time we posted was on fitting wheel bearings etc, Well I have done the main wheel plus new tyres, It was well within my capabilities, however the nose wheel looks a bit more complicated, ?? My Electrics, just have the standard 18 amp generator on the rear of the engine, the two wires to the G terminal on the regulator, ie what my generator is putting out, is 13.5v at idle say 1800 rpm and 26v at high rpm say 4000 rpm, so to me this seems enough volts to charge the battery, so the regulator looks more the problem, I have never seen my panel voltmeter showing 13v even with all the avionics switched off, A new regulator in the UK is about 87 So maybe the way for me to go is just fit a new one, at 69 and looking at my finger, my time is more important than the money. Regards Alan. 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