---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/15/16: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:36 AM - Re: Smart Ass Ordered (ploucandco) 2. 10:26 AM - naca inlets (Rowland Carson) 3. 11:47 AM - Re: naca inlets (William Daniell) 4. 12:23 PM - Re: naca inlets (Karl Heindl) 5. 01:22 PM - top cowl carb air inlet (Rowland Carson) 6. 02:04 PM - Re: top cowl carb air inlet (Alan Twigg) 7. 02:08 PM - Re: top cowl carb air inlet (Sky) 8. 02:13 PM - Re: top cowl carb air inlet (Rowland Carson) 9. 02:34 PM - Re: top cowl carb air inlet (Rowland Carson) 10. 02:44 PM - Re: top cowl carb air inlet (Donald Cameron) 11. 03:15 PM - Re: naca inlets (Steven Pitt) 12. 04:09 PM - Re: top cowl carb air inlet (JonSmith) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:13 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Smart Ass Ordered From: "ploucandco" @Nigel, red blinking is the annunciation that you are above 160knots (about Vne) for line 7. In this case, gear is up. When gear is down and above 80knots, line 3 becomes relevant and the annunciation is green blinking. So basically when something is wrong with speed/gear, you get a blinking led. When the situation is "normal", you get a steady led: red for gear up and green for gear down. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453770#453770 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:26:40 AM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: naca inlets I cant find any mention in any of my build manuals of the NACA scoop mouldings that came with my XS kit, or how and where to fit them. I notice that other builders appear to have made their own choices of location - see the composite picture in my dropbox at: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hkyd4ldm1x634id/scoop_locations.jpg?dl=0 Id like to site my scoops in a way that makes it easy to fit eyeball vents on the inside; as the eyeball vents Ive got have their own on-off control I dont plan to use the adjustment feature supplied (one of which broke anyway within minutes of unwrapping it). Id prefer to avoid the need to construct serpentine ductwork (as related recently in The Europa Flyer) and want to keep the eyeball vents clear of my knees. I imagine that lower locations are more likely to be high-pressure and higher locations less so or even low-pressure, but I wonder if there are any real no-go areas. The fitting instructions packed with the scoops (made by Ayton & Co & supplied through Aircraft Spruce) show how to fit the scoops on the inside face of the aircraft skin, but as the flange is only about 2mm recessed from the outer surface of the scoops I think it will be necessary to cut back the inner skin to allow them to sit flush with the outer skin. All input on this topic welcome! in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:21 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: naca inlets From: William Daniell Mine broke almost immediately too....:-( Will On Mar 15, 2016 1:35 PM, "Rowland Carson" wrote: m > > > > I can=99t find any mention in any of my build manuals of the NACA s coop > mouldings that came with my XS kit, or how and where to fit them. > > I notice that other builders appear to have made their own choices of > location - see the composite picture in my dropbox at: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hkyd4ldm1x634id/scoop_locations.jpg?dl=0 > > I=99d like to site my scoops in a way that makes it easy to fit eye ball > vents on the inside; as the eyeball vents I=99ve got have their own on-off > control I don=99t plan to use the adjustment feature supplied (one of which > broke anyway within minutes of unwrapping it). I=99d prefer to avoi d the need > to construct serpentine ductwork (as related recently in The Europa Flyer ) > and want to keep the eyeball vents clear of my knees. I imagine that lowe r > locations are more likely to be high-pressure and higher locations less s o > or even low-pressure, but I wonder if there are any real no-go areas. > > The fitting instructions packed with the scoops (made by Ayton & Co & > supplied through Aircraft Spruce) show how to fit the scoops on the insid e > face of the aircraft skin, but as the flange is only about 2mm recessed > from the outer surface of the scoops I think it will be necessary to cut > back the inner skin to allow them to sit flush with the outer skin. > > All input on this topic welcome! > > in friendship > > Rowland > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:41 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: naca inlets Only recommendation I can make=2C stay well away from the exhaust pipe=2C a s the fumes swirl around the fuselage and can get into the cockpit. A good place and easy to do is the bottom corner of the windscreen.Karl Subject: Re: Europa-List: naca inlets From: wdaniell.longport@gmail.com Mine broke almost immediately too....:-(=0A Will=0A On Mar 15=2C 2016 1:35 PM=2C "Rowland Carson" wro te: =0A =0A I can=92t find any mention in any of my build manuals of the NACA scoop mou ldings that came with my XS kit=2C or how and where to fit them. =0A =0A I notice that other builders appear to have made their own choices of locat ion - see the composite picture in my dropbox at: =0A =0A https://www.dropbox.com/s/hkyd4ldm1x634id/scoop_locations.jpg?dl=0 =0A =0A I=92d like to site my scoops in a way that makes it easy to fit eyeball ven ts on the inside=3B as the eyeball vents I=92ve got have their own on-off c ontrol I don=92t plan to use the adjustment feature supplied (one of which broke anyway within minutes of unwrapping it). I=92d prefer to avoid the ne ed to construct serpentine ductwork (as related recently in The Europa Flye r) and want to keep the eyeball vents clear of my knees. I imagine that low er locations are more likely to be high-pressure and higher locations less so or even low-pressure=2C but I wonder if there are any real no-go areas. =0A =0A The fitting instructions packed with the scoops (made by Ayton & Co & suppl ied through Aircraft Spruce) show how to fit the scoops on the inside face of the aircraft skin=2C but as the flange is only about 2mm recessed from t he outer surface of the scoops I think it will be necessary to cut back the inner skin to allow them to sit flush with the outer skin. =0A =0A All input on this topic welcome! =0A =0A in friendship =0A =0A Rowland =0A =0A | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... =0A | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk =0A | Skype=2C Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson =0A | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A br>=0A fts!) =0A r>=0A >=0A w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks .com =0A rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A -Matt Dralle=2C List Admin. =0A =0A pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?Europa-List =0A =0A FORUMS - =0A eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com =0A =0A b Site - =0A -Matt Dralle=2C List Admin. =0A rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:19 PM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: top cowl carb air inlet Ive bought Neville Eyres cowl set and I am wondering how to get the air into the cowling to the plenum chamber for the carbs. The Europa manual describes making a NACA duct on the top cowl to connect to the plenum chamber, at a marked position. If I understand the manual correctly, it appears that a buck or splash moulding is supplied with the factory cowl set. It is pushed through the cowl from the outside and the duct is laid up inside the cowl against the splash moulding. Neville has not supplied anything to make the NACA duct for the plenum chamber. Obviously I can work out the position on the cowl from careful measurement of the plenum relative to the firewall, but I dont have any information or pattern for the shape and size of the NACA duct. Does anyone have one of these splash mouldings from the factory that I could borrow, please? I dont need it right now, but want to make sure I have some way of dealing with this problem when I come to it. Or, if Im not understanding how the NACA duct is made, can someone please explain it to me! in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:34 PM PST US From: Alan Twigg Subject: Re: Europa-List: top cowl carb air inlet Nev,s cowling uses baffles similar to a Lycoming/Continental, no plenum needed. Pictures to follow. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 15 Mar 2016, at 20:22, Rowland Carson wrote: > > > Ive bought Neville Eyres cowl set and I am wondering how to get the air into the cowling to the plenum chamber for the carbs. > > The Europa manual describes making a NACA duct on the top cowl to connect to the plenum chamber, at a marked position. If I understand the manual correctly, it appears that a buck or splash moulding is supplied with the factory cowl set. It is pushed through the cowl from the outside and the duct is laid up inside the cowl against the splash moulding. > > Neville has not supplied anything to make the NACA duct for the plenum chamber. Obviously I can work out the position on the cowl from careful measurement of the plenum relative to the firewall, but I dont have any information or pattern for the shape and size of the NACA duct. > > Does anyone have one of these splash mouldings from the factory that I could borrow, please? I dont need it right now, but want to make sure I have some way of dealing with this problem when I come to it. > > Or, if Im not understanding how the NACA duct is made, can someone please explain it to me! > > in friendship > > Rowland > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:08:55 PM PST US From: Sky Subject: Re: Europa-List: top cowl carb air inlet Rowland, I have the Nev Eyre cowl set as well (though not yet built) and my understanding is that it does away with the fresh air inlet by guiding fresh air over the top of the engine from the cooling ducts immediately behind the prop - as a result, you simply put "normal" Rotax air filters onto the carb inlets and use air from directly inside the cowling. There is a picture of this set up on the Europa website where Nev's cowls are shown with the top off. Reds Richard CC > On 15 Mar 2016, at 20:22, Rowland Carson wrote: > > > Ive bought Neville Eyres cowl set and I am wondering how to get the air into the cowling to the plenum chamber for the carbs. > > The Europa manual describes making a NACA duct on the top cowl to connect to the plenum chamber, at a marked position. If I understand the manual correctly, it appears that a buck or splash moulding is supplied with the factory cowl set. It is pushed through the cowl from the outside and the duct is laid up inside the cowl against the splash moulding. > > Neville has not supplied anything to make the NACA duct for the plenum chamber. Obviously I can work out the position on the cowl from careful measurement of the plenum relative to the firewall, but I dont have any information or pattern for the shape and size of the NACA duct. > > Does anyone have one of these splash mouldings from the factory that I could borrow, please? I dont need it right now, but want to make sure I have some way of dealing with this problem when I come to it. > > Or, if Im not understanding how the NACA duct is made, can someone please explain it to me! > > in friendship > > Rowland > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: top cowl carb air inlet From: Rowland Carson On 2016-03-15, at 20:22, Rowland Carson wrote: > Ive bought Neville Eyres cowl set and I am wondering how to get the air into the cowling to the plenum chamber for the carbs. > > The Europa manual describes making a NACA duct on the top cowl to connect to the plenum chamber, at a marked position. If I understand the manual correctly, it appears that a buck or splash moulding is supplied with the factory cowl set. It is pushed through the cowl from the outside and the duct is laid up inside the cowl against the splash moulding. Ive had a reply already offering the splash moulding when I need it, and I have also spotted a picture of the thing itself posted by Bob Harrison on 18 June 2014, showing what some folk use it for after the build is complete. However, Ive been studying the manual again and I notice that in the instructions for making the rectangular flange to support the rubber skirt that seals around the air filter, it says: "Make cardboard formers in the manner described for the [NACA duct] side pieces which suggests that there was an older method which has not been completely excised from the manual. Im guessing that this approach used the piece cut out of the cowl as the ramp and cardboard formers were used to support the layup of the sides of the duct. Just out of interest, does anyone have a copy of a previous version of the firewall forward manual that includes a different recipe for making the inlet duct that involves cardboard formers? in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: top cowl carb air inlet From: Rowland Carson On 2016-03-15, at 21:08, Sky wrote: > Rowland, I have the Nev Eyre cowl set as well (though not yet built) and my understanding is that it does away with the fresh air inlet by guiding fresh air over the top of the engine from the cooling ducts immediately behind the prop - as a result, you simply put "normal" Rotax air filters onto the carb inlets and use air from directly inside the cowling. There is a picture of this set up on the Europa website where Nev's cowls are shown with the top off. Richard - thanks for your message, thanks to Alan Twigg too. It seems you folk have had more than I got from Neville in the way of documentation (well, I dont think I got anything on paper). Ive looked on the Europa factory website and cant find any pictures of or reference to Nevilles cowls. Can you give me the exact URL, please? in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: top cowl carb air inlet From: Donald Cameron Hi Rowland I have just posted photos of nev's kit installed in my aircraft. When i done my install there was no documentation from Nev. U had a good chat with him and got a good understanding of how everything was to be fitted. It actually goes together pretty easily. Should you need any advice or guidance feel free to get in touch with me and i will try my best to help as much as i can. If i can remember. Regards Donald G-PUPY Sent from my iPhone > On 15 Mar 2016, at 21:33, Rowland Carson wrote: > > >> On 2016-03-15, at 21:08, Sky wrote: >> >> Rowland, I have the Nev Eyre cowl set as well (though not yet built) and my understanding is that it does away with the fresh air inlet by guiding fresh air over the top of the engine from the cooling ducts immediately behind the prop - as a result, you simply put "normal" Rotax air filters onto the carb inlets and use air from directly inside the cowling. There is a picture of this set up on the Europa website where Nev's cowls are shown with the top off. > > Richard - thanks for your message, thanks to Alan Twigg too. It seems you folk have had more than I got from Neville in the way of documentation (well, I dont think I got anything on paper). > > Ive looked on the Europa factory website and cant find any pictures of or reference to Nevilles cowls. Can you give me the exact URL, please? > > in friendship > > Rowland > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:14 PM PST US From: "Steven Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: naca inlets There was a recommended position from Europa for the NACA vent but I can't lay my hands on it at present. From memory it was along the split line of the top and bottom of the 'canoe'. I thought it was in the Company Tech talks but I have failed to find it. Hope this gives a pointer. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rowland Carson" Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 5:24 PM Subject: Europa-List: naca inlets > > > I cant find any mention in any of my build manuals of the NACA scoop > mouldings that came with my XS kit, or how and where to fit them. > > I notice that other builders appear to have made their own choices of > location - see the composite picture in my dropbox at: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hkyd4ldm1x634id/scoop_locations.jpg?dl=0 > > Id like to site my scoops in a way that makes it easy to fit eyeball > vents on the inside; as the eyeball vents Ive got have their own on-off > control I dont plan to use the adjustment feature supplied (one of which > broke anyway within minutes of unwrapping it). Id prefer to avoid the > need to construct serpentine ductwork (as related recently in The Europa > Flyer) and want to keep the eyeball vents clear of my knees. I imagine > that lower locations are more likely to be high-pressure and higher > locations less so or even low-pressure, but I wonder if there are any real > no-go areas. > > The fitting instructions packed with the scoops (made by Ayton & Co & > supplied through Aircraft Spruce) show how to fit the scoops on the inside > face of the aircraft skin, but as the flange is only about 2mm recessed > from the outer surface of the scoops I think it will be necessary to cut > back the inner skin to allow them to sit flush with the outer skin. > > All input on this topic welcome! > > in friendship > > Rowland > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:36 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: top cowl carb air inlet From: "JonSmith" Some pics here Rowland; http://www.theeuropaclub.org/for-builders/cowl-cooling/neville-eyres-revised-cowl/ -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453792#453792 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.