---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/22/16: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:57 AM - Re: TruTrak Gemini ADI (Guerner Remi) 2. 01:09 AM - Re: Re: TruTrak Gemini ADI (Pete Lawless) 3. 02:06 AM - Re: Avionics Heat (Bob Hitchcock) 4. 02:07 AM - Re: Avionics heat (John Archer) 5. 02:17 AM - Re: Cockpit trim/ upholstery (James Kelly) 6. 02:25 AM - Re: Avionics heat (Ian Cook) 7. 02:54 AM - Re: Avionics heat (houlihan tim) 8. 03:05 AM - Re: Avionics heat (Pete) 9. 03:38 AM - Re: Cockpit trim/ upholstery (Alan Twigg) 10. 05:20 AM - Re: Tailplane Slop (Kelvin Weston) 11. 05:49 AM - Re: Cockpit trim/ upholstery (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 12. 06:03 AM - Re: Cockpit trim/ upholstery (James Kelly) 13. 07:41 AM - Re: Re: naca inlets (William Daniell) 14. 07:54 AM - Jim Butcher (spcialeffects) 15. 01:41 PM - Re: Jim Butcher (h&jeuropa) 16. 02:01 PM - Re: Re: Jim Butcher (Jan de Jong) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:40 AM PST US From: Guerner Remi Subject: Europa-List: Re: TruTrak Gemini ADI Thanks to those who have responded to my question. It seems only two Europas are fitted with the Gemini. Raimo Toivo says his Gemini (an early model AI only ) never worked properly while Graeme Bird says his (recently installed auto pilot version) works perfectly. That is not enough to make statistics! Personally I am very satisfied with my experience with the TruTrak Pictorial pilot I installed 5 years ago, so I will probably go ahead with the Gemini ADI. Remi Guerner F-PGKL ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:09:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: TruTrak Gemini ADI From: Pete Lawless Hi Remi I was looking at the information on th Gemini, just out of interest, and spotted a response on a forum suggesting ordinary attitude information was about to be available as an option. May be worth asking TruTrak. Regards Pete G-RMAC On 22/04/16 08:56, Guerner Remi wrote: > > Thanks to those who have responded to my question. It seems only two Europas are fitted with the Gemini. Raimo Toivo says his Gemini (an early model AI only ) never worked properly while Graeme Bird says his (recently installed auto pilot version) works perfectly. That is not enough to make statistics! Personally I am very satisfied with my experience with the TruTrak Pictorial pilot I installed 5 years ago, so I will probably go ahead with the Gemini ADI. > > Remi Guerner > F-PGKL > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:06:49 AM PST US From: Bob Hitchcock Subject: Europa-List: Re: Avionics Heat Hi Gary Your description and picture was very helpful. =46rom your picture I presume you have used the LONESTAR CYCLONE - 21 COOLING FAN. My Europa mono XS has been flying for some sixteen years now and I have owned her for eight years . The panel has built in inspection points already, and is also moveable, so hopefully access should not be a issue. I am not the original builder, but do fly regularly with him. Great knowledg e source and buddy. (He spends half his time in the UK, and like you winters in Florida). Half a dozen differing solutions to the problem set. This foru m is an outstanding knowledge resource. Many thanks for your suggestions. Regards Bob > On 21 Apr 2016, at 22:58, > > In the attached picture you can see my panel. I (with the terrific help of Bud Yerly of Custom Flight) made the panel easily removable =93 takes about 10 minutes to remove the entire panel. This has paid off some many ti mes, and makes doing IFR 2 year checks very easy if the inspector wants to c heck everything. > > My plane is IFR with a Garmin 430W, a 330 GTX Mode S transponder, a Grand R apids HX, an engine monitor, a Tru-Trax 2 axis autopilot, and several steam g auges. Yes, it all fits but it is tight. And it is heavy - 42 lbs. for the p anel. And it produces a great deal of heat. So we put in a three hose fan dr awing air from the passenger foot well, and two exhaust fans =93 origi nal two inch (as shown) but now one is a 4 inch fan. The top fans are on a t hermostat and a timer, running off the secondary battery. When I land, if th e temps are up in the panel, the fan goes on for about 45 minutes. > > The three hoses from the fan go to the HX, 430W, and the EXP buss box (on t he right side of picture with all the plugs over top of it). The box was mad e to improve cooling and keep stray wires or dropped tools from causing shor ts in the EXP buss). The two hoses - to the Garmin and to the HX are not in the picture. > > The secondary battery also runs the radio and trim and autopilot through a =9Csoaring=9D buss for use when the engine is off for soaring ( I have the glider wings also), and can be used for clearance delivery on the ground so you don=99t have to run the engine (and possibly overheat) o r wear the main battery down when getting your clearance. I do have the top m ounted, belt driven 45 amp alternator as well as the standard 20 amp Rotax a lternator. Even if I lose the HX or the main battery I still have the Tru-Tr ax to keep wings level and to get heading. The steam gauges give me altitud e, speed and climb/descend rate. And in extremis the Foreflight gives me an additional backup. > > I do have a spare handheld ratio with its own antenna with a connection to the secondary battery if I lose the Garmin. It is not tied into the interco m system so I have to plug it into my headset if I want to use it. > > After getting the system up and running I have had no problems keeping the heat down behind the panel. I did originally have panel heat problems when d oing my flying off time in Florida in the summer =93 outside temps at a ltitude above 95 degrees F. > > Good luck. I think the work necessary to make the panel removable is worth it. I would also recommend making the connections to the engine easy to dis connect so you don=99t have to cut anything when the engine needs to b e removed. > > The system works great and the Europa is great IFR platform, except I coul d occasionally use another radio =93 but no room. Just takes some plan ning. > > I am going to try to put this on the Matronic site, but I normally don =99t have very good luck with that. > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Avionics heat From: John Archer <77alembert@gmail.com> I have a very simple instrument panel in my aircraft but was conscious that there is not a lot of room behind the panel and it gets heat from the engine and the sun beating down on it. I recently changed the radio and transponder to the Trig TY91 and TT21 and put the "hardware" boxes in the back behind the D panel. This frees up a lot of space in the panel for air circulation and moves the heat source elsewhere. I think there are other manufacturers offering split systems as well but I am happy with the Trigs performance. John ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:17:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cockpit trim/ upholstery From: James Kelly Hi Alan, have you had much response to your plea for assistance with the interior trim. My Europa G-BWEG needs to be redone. Cheers Jim Kelly On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:06 AM, Alan Twigg wrote: > > I am about to upholster the cockpit of my aircraft, with the help of a > vintage car restorer and upholsterer. > Has anyone cardboard or paper templates I can borrow. > I already have my seats thanks to John Bean. > Alan Twigg > Motorglider kit 463 > Wings on final sand ready for paint, aircraft ready for upholstery, engine > fitted with Nev's cowl and engine mount. > Coal powered instruments (for now), with total energy winter vario. > > Sent from my iPad > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:42 AM PST US From: Ian Cook Subject: RE: Europa-List: Avionics heat Hi Gary, I am the owner of the fist Europa Motor Glider flying in the UK and am in the unbelievable position of still trying to get a valid Permit to Fly, so far it has taken about 7 years! (We don't have an experimental category here. Yet). The present problem is trying to get an increase in maximum all up mass from 1370 to 1470 lbs. Noting the equipment you have in your machine I wonder if you could tell me what mass you operate your machine at, and if you are aware of any handling issues at high masses? Do you operate with a restricted C of G range and or restricted VNe? We am currently limited by the LAA to 127 knots VNe, C of G limits between 58" and 62.5"but the reasons for this seem to have been unspecified or lost in the mists of time. The current empty mass of my machine is 989 lbs at a C of G 60". If you prefer to come back off line my e-mail is iancook_1@hotmail.com . Look forward to hearing from yourself and very interested in any operating issue advice that you can offer to help justify the current work going on in the UK. Best Regards Ian Cook From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Leinberger Sent: 21 April 2016 23:06 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Avionics heat In the attached picture you can see my panel. I (with the terrific help of Bud Yerly of Custom Flight) made the panel easily removable - takes about 10 minutes to remove the entire panel. This has paid off some many times, and makes doing IFR 2 year checks very easy if the inspector wants to check everything. My plane is IFR with a Garmin 430W, a 330 GTX Mode S transponder, a Grand Rapids HX, an engine monitor, a Tru-Trax 2 axis autopilot, and several steam gauges. Yes, it all fits but it is tight. And it is heavy - 42 lbs. for the panel. And it produces a great deal of heat. So we put in a three hose fan drawing air from the passenger foot well, and two exhaust fans - original two inch (as shown) but now one is a 4 inch fan. The top fans are on a thermostat and a timer, running off the secondary battery. When I land, if the temps are up in the panel, the fan goes on for about 45 minutes. The three hoses from the fan go to the HX, 430W, and the EXP buss box (on the right side of picture with all the plugs over top of it). The box was made to improve cooling and keep stray wires or dropped tools from causing shorts in the EXP buss). The two hoses - to the Garmin and to the HX are not in the picture. The secondary battery also runs the radio and trim and autopilot through a "soaring" buss for use when the engine is off for soaring (I have the glider wings also), and can be used for clearance delivery on the ground so you don't have to run the engine (and possibly overheat) or wear the main battery down when getting your clearance. I do have the top mounted, belt driven 45 amp alternator as well as the standard 20 amp Rotax alternator. Even if I lose the HX or the main battery I still have the Tru-Trax to keep wings level and to get heading. The steam gauges give me altitude, speed and climb/descend rate. And in extremis the Foreflight gives me an additional backup. I do have a spare handheld ratio with its own antenna with a connection to the secondary battery if I lose the Garmin. It is not tied into the intercom system so I have to plug it into my headset if I want to use it. After getting the system up and running I have had no problems keeping the heat down behind the panel. I did originally have panel heat problems when doing my flying off time in Florida in the summer - outside temps at altitude above 95 degrees F. Good luck. I think the work necessary to make the panel removable is worth it. I would also recommend making the connections to the engine easy to disconnect so you don't have to cut anything when the engine needs to be removed. The system works great and the Europa is great IFR platform, except I could occasionally use another radio - but no room. Just takes some planning. Gary Leinberger ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:54:06 AM PST US From: houlihan tim Subject: Re: Europa-List: Avionics heat Hi John. This is my configuration also and you are correct in that it frees up a lot of space in the panel, I am also happy with the Trig's performance, as a bonus it moves the transmitters much closer to the aerials tim > On 22 April 2016 at 10:06 John Archer <77alembert@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I have a very simple instrument panel in my aircraft but was conscious > that there is not a lot of room behind the panel and it gets heat from the > engine and the sun beating down on it. > I recently changed the radio and transponder to the Trig TY91 and TT21 and > put the "hardware" boxes in the back behind the D panel. This frees up a lot > of space in the panel for air circulation and moves the heat source elsewhere. > I think there are other manufacturers offering split systems as well but I am > happy with the Trigs performance. > > John > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:05:18 AM PST US From: Pete Subject: Re: Europa-List: Avionics heat I am also very impressed with my trig set. Extremely durable putting up with vibration in my little Hummel that slowly kills many of my other instrument s. Cheers, Pete > On Apr 22, 2016, at 5:53 AM, houlihan tim wrot e: > > Hi John. > > This is my configuration also and you are correct in that it frees up a lo t of space in the panel, I am also happy with the Trig's performance, as a b onus it moves the transmitters much closer to the aerials > > tim > >> On 22 April 2016 at 10:06 John Archer <77alembert@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> I have a very simple instrument panel in my aircraft but was conscious th at there is not a lot of room behind the panel and it gets heat from the eng ine and the sun beating down on it. >> I recently changed the radio and transponder to the Trig TY91 and TT21 an d put the "hardware" boxes in the back behind the D panel. This frees up a l ot of space in the panel for air circulation and moves the heat source elsew here. I think there are other manufacturers offering split systems as well b ut I am happy with the Trigs performance. >> >> John > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:05 AM PST US From: Alan Twigg Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cockpit trim/ upholstery Just one potential, I have been unwell for a couple of days but will follow i t up. Alan Sent from my iPhone > On 22 Apr 2016, at 10:16, James Kelly wrote: > > Hi Alan, have you had much response to your plea for assistance with the i nterior trim. My Europa G-BWEG needs to be redone. > Cheers > Jim Kelly > >> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:06 AM, Alan Twigg wro te: >> >> I am about to upholster the cockpit of my aircraft, with the help of a vi ntage car restorer and upholsterer. >> Has anyone cardboard or paper templates I can borrow. >> I already have my seats thanks to John Bean. >> Alan Twigg >> Motorglider kit 463 >> Wings on final sand ready for paint, aircraft ready for upholstery, engin e fitted with Nev's cowl and engine mount. >> Coal powered instruments (for now), with total energy winter vario. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> ========== >> br> fts!) >> r> > w.buildersbooks.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.builde rsbooks.com >> target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> ========== >> pa-List" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?Europa-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> _blank" rel="noreferrer">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n >> ========== >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:22 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Tailplane Slop From: "Kelvin Weston" Hi Roger / Donald I am in the middle of embodying this mod although with larger bolts (I already had Mod 62 pins fitted). Did you use the AN960 washers under the bolts on TP9 and TP12? The pictures appear to show the use of cuddle washers. I thought this might be better and manufactured some cuddle washers from 4130 steel tube. Also, did you paint / protect the nutplate in the torque tube or go with a regular spray of ACF50 or similar? I also thought this was the best solution to the tailplane problem and would recommend this mod (although not tested in anger as yet). My thanks also to Richard and Ian. -------- Regards Kelv Weston Kit 497 kelv@kdweston.biz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455327#455327 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:13 AM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cockpit trim/ upholstery Jim & Alan, I am inclined to add a couple of words of caution for those about to embark on full scale leather and impact foam upholstery: 1. It can weigh a considerable amount 2. It is inflexible in terms of size of pilot/pax who will fit An alternative is to have relatively light weight cushions (mine were recycled from an old Citroen in a scrap yard, chosen for their pleasing appearance and light weight) with variable amounts of foam or other cushions to adjust to pax size. It has worked well and been pleasing to the eye for 14 yrs, and contributes no doubt to mine being one of the lightest 914s in the fleet. Regards, David On 2016-04-22 10:16, James Kelly wrote: > Hi Alan, have you had much response to your plea for assistance with the interior trim. My Europa G-BWEG needs to be redone. > Cheers > Jim Kelly > > On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:06 AM, Alan Twigg wrote: > >> >> I am about to upholster the cockpit of my aircraft, with the help of a vintage car restorer and upholsterer. >> Has anyone cardboard or paper templates I can borrow. >> I already have my seats thanks to John Bean. >> Alan Twigg >> Motorglider kit 463 >> Wings on final sand ready for paint, aircraft ready for upholstery, engine fitted with Nev's cowl and engine mount. >> Coal powered instruments (for now), with total energy winter vario. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> ========== >> br> fts!) >> r> > w.buildersbooks.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.buildersbooks.com >> target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> ========== >> pa-List" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> _blank" rel="noreferrer">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cockpit trim/ upholstery From: James Kelly Thanks for that David, I can lay witness to your trim it's all very neat. Best wishes Jim On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 1:34 PM, wrote: > Jim & Alan, I am inclined to add a couple of words of caution for those > about to embark on full scale leather and impact foam upholstery: > > 1. It can weigh a considerable amount > > 2. It is inflexible in terms of size of pilot/pax who will fit > > An alternative is to have relatively light weight cushions (mine were > recycled from an old Citroen in a scrap yard, chosen for their pleasing > appearance and light weight) with variable amounts of foam or other > cushions to adjust to pax size. It has worked well and been pleasing to the > eye for 14 yrs, and contributes no doubt to mine being one of the lightest > 914s in the fleet. > > Regards, David > > > On 2016-04-22 10:16, James Kelly wrote: > > Hi Alan, have you had much response to your plea for assistance with the > interior trim. My Europa G-BWEG needs to be redone. > Cheers > Jim Kelly > > On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:06 AM, Alan Twigg > wrote: > >> >> I am about to upholster the cockpit of my aircraft, with the help of a >> vintage car restorer and upholsterer. >> Has anyone cardboard or paper templates I can borrow. >> I already have my seats thanks to John Bean. >> Alan Twigg >> Motorglider kit 463 >> Wings on final sand ready for paint, aircraft ready for upholstery, >> engine fitted with Nev's cowl and engine mount. >> Coal powered instruments (for now), with total energy winter vario. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> ========== >> br> fts!) >> r> > w.buildersbooks.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"> >> www.buildersbooks.com >> target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> ========== >> pa-List" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> _blank" rel="noreferrer">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: naca inlets From: William Daniell Barry would you be able to post some pics please Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 4:09 AM, tennant wrote: > > > > Hi Rowland, > > All These new fangled Gadgets!! > About 20 years ago I just shaped some foam to naca shape. I got a set of > Ford Fiesta side vent grills from a scrap Yard and laminated them in the > recommended place. Perfect, and lots of air, even in a steep climb. > > Barry > > -------- > Barry Tennant > D-EHBT > At EDLM - Germany > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455282#455282 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:21 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Jim Butcher From: "spcialeffects" I am wanting to contact a mr Jim Butcher regarding his development and/or sales of the second alternator which fits and runs off the rear of the rotax engine. If someone could post his current email address that would be great or better still if he's reading this please contact me. Many thanks Frank X, classic kit #165 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455338#455338 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:43 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Jim Butcher From: "h&jeuropa" Frank, Here I am. I removed the second alt a few years ago. The coupling eventually failed. By being careful about power requirements, I use only about 10 amps in flight. My Europa is IFR with Garmin 430, Garmin 327, Garmin 340, two GRT Sport EFIS. I have LED position and strobe lights. No autopilot. No pitot heat. If you want, I have drawings and details about mounting alternator to rear of engine but I don't think it is necessary. Jim Butcher Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455345#455345 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Jim Butcher From: Jan de Jong There's this too: http://www.flygas.info/en/kit-double-alternator-for-rotax.html No idea about pros and cons. But not cheap. Jan de Jong On 4/22/2016 10:40 PM, h&jeuropa wrote: > > Frank, > > Here I am. > > I removed the second alt a few years ago. The coupling eventually failed. By being careful about power requirements, I use only about 10 amps in flight. > My Europa is IFR with Garmin 430, Garmin 327, Garmin 340, two GRT Sport EFIS. I have LED position and strobe lights. No autopilot. No pitot heat. > > If you want, I have drawings and details about mounting alternator to rear of engine but I don't think it is necessary. > > Jim Butcher > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455345#455345 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.