Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:27 AM - Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear (Scudrunner)
2. 06:51 AM - Tank outlets! (tennant)
3. 07:14 AM - Tank outlets! (tennant)
4. 07:15 AM - Re: Tank outlets! (Roger Sheridan)
5. 12:32 PM - Coolant temperature (William Daniell)
6. 12:36 PM - Re: Coolant temperature (William Daniell)
7. 02:16 PM - Re: coolant choce and temperature monitoring questions (Europaul383)
8. 02:22 PM - Re: coolant choce and temperature monitoring questions (Bud Yerly)
9. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear (Bud Yerly)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear |
A couple of left field ideas:
Is the engine running too lean? Lean engines run hotter right?
I have a mono classic & UL and don't get those temps and I need to partially blank
the oil cooler in the winter. 2 summers ago I went through the LAA new VP
prop schedule which if I remember correctly calls for a 5 minute WOT climb and
temps were OK.
Air lock in either the water or oil cooler circuits? (I remember needing to bleed
the water cooling rad through a small hole in the inlet/outlet pipe.
Agree that once temps get high it takes longer for the oil to cool than the water.
I agree with the principal of checking the simple stuff 1st. The alternatives tend
to be expensive and time consuming!
Hope that helps?
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456275#456275
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Hi you experts,
I am out at our airfield, draining a full tank because the tank outlet is leaking.
20 years ago, when I built my Classic the fitting of the tank outlets was pretty
fumbly. There was then no instructions for making inspection holes in the floor.
I am 20 years older now and dreading the fight to replace these connections.
Does anyone have a super idea to get at the connections??
--------
Barry Tennant
D-EHBT
At EDLM - Germany
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456281#456281
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Hi you experts,
I am out at our airfield, draining a full tank because the tank outlet is leaking.
20 years ago, when I built my Classic the fitting of the tank outlets was pretty
fumbly. There was then no instructions for making inspection holes in the floor.
I am 20 years older now and dreading the fight to replace these connections.
Does anyone have a super idea to get at the connections??
--------
Barry Tennant
D-EHBT
At EDLM - Germany
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456282#456282
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tank outlets! |
Hi Barry,
I just refitted tank outlets as part of 5 yearly servicing & also changed from
single filter to dual seat pan filters. It was essential to have the access holes,
I dont see any quick fix & would trailer it to the workshop.
Sorry, no super idea.
Roger
> On 16 May 2016, at 14:50, tennant <barrington.tennant@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi you experts,
> I am out at our airfield, draining a full tank because the tank outlet is leaking.
> 20 years ago, when I built my Classic the fitting of the tank outlets was pretty
fumbly. There was then no instructions for making inspection holes in the
floor.
> I am 20 years older now and dreading the fight to replace these connections.
> Does anyone have a super idea to get at the connections??
>
> --------
> Barry Tennant
> D-EHBT
> At EDLM - Germany
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456281#456281
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Coolant temperature |
I am installing the Dynon engine sensors and I notice that there is no
coolant temp sensor. I am guessing that that there is no need because
there is an oil temp and oil press sensor. I am merely wondering because
my MXP has a coolant temp sensor. Is there any advantage in having a
coolant temp sensor?
thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Coolant temperature |
scratch that sorry...its in the rotax manual
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 2:31 PM, William Daniell <
wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am installing the Dynon engine sensors and I notice that there is no
> coolant temp sensor. I am guessing that that there is no need because
> there is an oil temp and oil press sensor. I am merely wondering because
> my MXP has a coolant temp sensor. Is there any advantage in having a
> coolant temp sensor?
> thanks
> Will
> William Daniell
> LONGPORT
> +57 310 295 0744
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: coolant choce and temperature monitoring questions |
I used the Skydrive coolant temp kit, repositioning one of the 2 fitted CHT senders
for use in the M10 threaded tube. The CHT sockets on my 912S are blind,
so I could remove one without creating a leak - check yours, or just buy an additional
sender for use in the coolant kit!
I have the carb heat kit, so needed the Adapter 3 (sort of double T piece - see
picture) to take off both the carb heat and the temp probe.
http://www.skydrive.co.uk/products.asp?cat=67
It makes sense when you see the parts. Holler if it's not clear, although Mark
(Mick?) at Skydrive is v helpful and will talk you through the options.
HTH
Paul M 383
XS Mono 912S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456307#456307
Attachments:
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: coolant choce and temperature monitoring questions |
Rowland,
I place the coolant overflow on the starboard side and it is accessible
through the oil door on the XS.
Glycol is my choice in the hot climate of Florida. In cool climates Evans
is fine.
Rotax requires coolant outflow to be monitored as the owner who chooses to
run at 275 will boil glycol in the head. New engines have new heads and
coolant monitoring.
I find the in line coolant temp probe to be more of a pain and inaccuracies
than it is worth. Don't let the cylinder head temp go above 245F and the
coolant never boils over.
Because Evans has nearly 20% less heat transfer ability, it is essential to
optimize your cooling or enlarge the radiator in hotter climates. Good news
is, Evans is lifetime and frankly, it does not appear to corrode as
water/glycol can.
In the UK you should be fine with a 912S, even on long taxis and hard climbs
at 90 KIAS provided you paid attention to your ducting.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: Rowland Carson
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 2:14 PM
Subject: Europa-List: coolant choce and temperature monitoring questions
I thought Id got all the instrumentation I needed sorted out, but Ive come
across the following items in the Rotax Installation Manual:
"2 different types of coolant are permitted.
Type 1:
- Conventional coolant based on ethylene glycol
Conventional coolant is recommended as it is commonly available and has a
greater thermal heat transfer capability.
. . .
Permanent monitoring of coolant temperature and cylinder head temperature is
necessary.
Type 2:
- Waterless coolant based on propylene glycol
Waterless coolant is recommended if the design of the aircraft can not
maintain the coolant temperature limit.
. . .
Permanent monitoring of cylinder head temperature is necessary.
Additional monitoring of the actual coolant temperature is possible but not
necessary for waterless coolant.
I seem to recall that Evans (waterless) coolant was the flavour of the month
some time back, and then it fell out of favour. I understand it's more
expensive than ethylene glycol coolants as well as causing the engine to run
hotter (because it doesnt transfer heat so well).
However, it appears from the above Rotax manual extracts that if one wants
to use the cheaper ethylene glycol option, its necessary to have a coolant
temperature gauge as well as the CHT monitoring. And elsewhere in the manual
coolant temp monitoring is required during the test flying period even with
waterless coolant.
So, the question is - what do folks in UK generally use in the coolant
system? And if conventional ethylene glycol, what type of coolant
temperature sensor do they have and where is it fitted?
All advice born of experience welcome.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
| pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear |
Richard,
Leaving oil in the cooler is fine. With the tank above the oil cooler, you
will sometimes get a bit of air in the feed line if you leave the oil drain
for a considerable period of time. Otherwise, I've not had a problem with
the low oil coolers in either the Classic or XS. I drain the tank, and
refill very quickly, then change the oil filter.
I am a fan of lowering the oil cooler to the front below the spinner on the
Classic and then glassing in a small bracket to hold the cooler. Creighton
Smith and others have used long pip pins to hold the oil cooler in place for
quick lower cowl removal. Alas, there is no quick cowl removal with the
Classic radiators, but we try by using nut plates and planning so it is
typically two pins, and four bolts and the lower cowl is off.
I open up the classic exit about two more inches on each side for hot
weather operations. At cruise, this drives both the oil temp and head temps
below 200 F at low altitude and 160 at high altitude. But climb is just
right at about 230 with an 80 HP engine. So to be honest with you all, it
would help to install a small cowl flap to regulate the cruise temps and
keep them about 180-200 F.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Lamprey
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 8:25 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear
<lamprey.richard@gmail.com>
Gordon,
Something to add... Repositioning the oil cooler means that now you have
the whole thing anchored to the lower cowling. This makes lowering the
lower cowling, or taking it off completely, more complicated. The cooler
now has to be exactly repositioned to enable the retaining screws from the
outside to engage with the anchor nuts on the cooler.. All of this is a
real nuisance for oil changes.
Maybe others have better solutions.
I now have an inspection panel directly beneath the oil reservoir to drain
the oil, without dropping the lower cowling. It means that a certain amount
of oil in the cooler stays in oil changes, but this prevents opening the
system with the dreaded possibility of air entry into the system. (I read
somewhere in a Rotax bulletin that leaving some residual oil in the cooler
is OK in oil changes). I change oil every 30 hours.
So, one thing leads to another, but oil cooling is not a problem.
Best
Richard
Classic number 168, Monowheel, Rotax 912 UL, Warpdrive fixed, 600 hours, reg
5Y-LRY
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456249#456249
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