---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/16/16: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:27 AM - Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear (Scudrunner) 2. 06:51 AM - Tank outlets! (tennant) 3. 07:14 AM - Tank outlets! (tennant) 4. 07:15 AM - Re: Tank outlets! (Roger Sheridan) 5. 12:32 PM - Coolant temperature (William Daniell) 6. 12:36 PM - Re: Coolant temperature (William Daniell) 7. 02:16 PM - Re: coolant choce and temperature monitoring questions (Europaul383) 8. 02:22 PM - Re: coolant choce and temperature monitoring questions (Bud Yerly) 9. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear (Bud Yerly) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:27:55 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear From: "Scudrunner" A couple of left field ideas: Is the engine running too lean? Lean engines run hotter right? I have a mono classic & UL and don't get those temps and I need to partially blank the oil cooler in the winter. 2 summers ago I went through the LAA new VP prop schedule which if I remember correctly calls for a 5 minute WOT climb and temps were OK. Air lock in either the water or oil cooler circuits? (I remember needing to bleed the water cooling rad through a small hole in the inlet/outlet pipe. Agree that once temps get high it takes longer for the oil to cool than the water. I agree with the principal of checking the simple stuff 1st. The alternatives tend to be expensive and time consuming! Hope that helps? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456275#456275 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:33 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Tank outlets! From: "tennant" Hi you experts, I am out at our airfield, draining a full tank because the tank outlet is leaking. 20 years ago, when I built my Classic the fitting of the tank outlets was pretty fumbly. There was then no instructions for making inspection holes in the floor. I am 20 years older now and dreading the fight to replace these connections. Does anyone have a super idea to get at the connections?? -------- Barry Tennant D-EHBT At EDLM - Germany Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456281#456281 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:30 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Tank outlets! From: "tennant" Hi you experts, I am out at our airfield, draining a full tank because the tank outlet is leaking. 20 years ago, when I built my Classic the fitting of the tank outlets was pretty fumbly. There was then no instructions for making inspection holes in the floor. I am 20 years older now and dreading the fight to replace these connections. Does anyone have a super idea to get at the connections?? -------- Barry Tennant D-EHBT At EDLM - Germany Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456282#456282 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tank outlets! From: Roger Sheridan Hi Barry, I just refitted tank outlets as part of 5 yearly servicing & also changed from single filter to dual seat pan filters. It was essential to have the access holes, I dont see any quick fix & would trailer it to the workshop. Sorry, no super idea. Roger > On 16 May 2016, at 14:50, tennant wrote: > > > Hi you experts, > I am out at our airfield, draining a full tank because the tank outlet is leaking. > 20 years ago, when I built my Classic the fitting of the tank outlets was pretty fumbly. There was then no instructions for making inspection holes in the floor. > I am 20 years older now and dreading the fight to replace these connections. > Does anyone have a super idea to get at the connections?? > > -------- > Barry Tennant > D-EHBT > At EDLM - Germany > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456281#456281 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:32:20 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Coolant temperature From: William Daniell I am installing the Dynon engine sensors and I notice that there is no coolant temp sensor. I am guessing that that there is no need because there is an oil temp and oil press sensor. I am merely wondering because my MXP has a coolant temp sensor. Is there any advantage in having a coolant temp sensor? thanks Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:36:15 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Coolant temperature From: William Daniell scratch that sorry...its in the rotax manual William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 2:31 PM, William Daniell < wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote: > I am installing the Dynon engine sensors and I notice that there is no > coolant temp sensor. I am guessing that that there is no need because > there is an oil temp and oil press sensor. I am merely wondering because > my MXP has a coolant temp sensor. Is there any advantage in having a > coolant temp sensor? > thanks > Will > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:16:09 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: coolant choce and temperature monitoring questions From: "Europaul383" I used the Skydrive coolant temp kit, repositioning one of the 2 fitted CHT senders for use in the M10 threaded tube. The CHT sockets on my 912S are blind, so I could remove one without creating a leak - check yours, or just buy an additional sender for use in the coolant kit! I have the carb heat kit, so needed the Adapter 3 (sort of double T piece - see picture) to take off both the carb heat and the temp probe. http://www.skydrive.co.uk/products.asp?cat=67 It makes sense when you see the parts. Holler if it's not clear, although Mark (Mick?) at Skydrive is v helpful and will talk you through the options. HTH Paul M 383 XS Mono 912S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456307#456307 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/adapter_3__new_large_197.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:22:37 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: coolant choce and temperature monitoring questions Rowland, I place the coolant overflow on the starboard side and it is accessible through the oil door on the XS. Glycol is my choice in the hot climate of Florida. In cool climates Evans is fine. Rotax requires coolant outflow to be monitored as the owner who chooses to run at 275 will boil glycol in the head. New engines have new heads and coolant monitoring. I find the in line coolant temp probe to be more of a pain and inaccuracies than it is worth. Don't let the cylinder head temp go above 245F and the coolant never boils over. Because Evans has nearly 20% less heat transfer ability, it is essential to optimize your cooling or enlarge the radiator in hotter climates. Good news is, Evans is lifetime and frankly, it does not appear to corrode as water/glycol can. In the UK you should be fine with a 912S, even on long taxis and hard climbs at 90 KIAS provided you paid attention to your ducting. Best Regards, Bud Yerly -----Original Message----- From: Rowland Carson Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 2:14 PM Subject: Europa-List: coolant choce and temperature monitoring questions I thought Id got all the instrumentation I needed sorted out, but Ive come across the following items in the Rotax Installation Manual: "2 different types of coolant are permitted. Type 1: - Conventional coolant based on ethylene glycol Conventional coolant is recommended as it is commonly available and has a greater thermal heat transfer capability. . . . Permanent monitoring of coolant temperature and cylinder head temperature is necessary. Type 2: - Waterless coolant based on propylene glycol Waterless coolant is recommended if the design of the aircraft can not maintain the coolant temperature limit. . . . Permanent monitoring of cylinder head temperature is necessary. Additional monitoring of the actual coolant temperature is possible but not necessary for waterless coolant. I seem to recall that Evans (waterless) coolant was the flavour of the month some time back, and then it fell out of favour. I understand it's more expensive than ethylene glycol coolants as well as causing the engine to run hotter (because it doesnt transfer heat so well). However, it appears from the above Rotax manual extracts that if one wants to use the cheaper ethylene glycol option, its necessary to have a coolant temperature gauge as well as the CHT monitoring. And elsewhere in the manual coolant temp monitoring is required during the test flying period even with waterless coolant. So, the question is - what do folks in UK generally use in the coolant system? And if conventional ethylene glycol, what type of coolant temperature sensor do they have and where is it fitted? All advice born of experience welcome. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:45 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear Richard, Leaving oil in the cooler is fine. With the tank above the oil cooler, you will sometimes get a bit of air in the feed line if you leave the oil drain for a considerable period of time. Otherwise, I've not had a problem with the low oil coolers in either the Classic or XS. I drain the tank, and refill very quickly, then change the oil filter. I am a fan of lowering the oil cooler to the front below the spinner on the Classic and then glassing in a small bracket to hold the cooler. Creighton Smith and others have used long pip pins to hold the oil cooler in place for quick lower cowl removal. Alas, there is no quick cowl removal with the Classic radiators, but we try by using nut plates and planning so it is typically two pins, and four bolts and the lower cowl is off. I open up the classic exit about two more inches on each side for hot weather operations. At cruise, this drives both the oil temp and head temps below 200 F at low altitude and 160 at high altitude. But climb is just right at about 230 with an 80 HP engine. So to be honest with you all, it would help to install a small cowl flap to regulate the cruise temps and keep them about 180-200 F. Best Regards, Bud Yerly -----Original Message----- From: Richard Lamprey Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 8:25 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear Gordon, Something to add... Repositioning the oil cooler means that now you have the whole thing anchored to the lower cowling. This makes lowering the lower cowling, or taking it off completely, more complicated. The cooler now has to be exactly repositioned to enable the retaining screws from the outside to engage with the anchor nuts on the cooler.. All of this is a real nuisance for oil changes. Maybe others have better solutions. I now have an inspection panel directly beneath the oil reservoir to drain the oil, without dropping the lower cowling. It means that a certain amount of oil in the cooler stays in oil changes, but this prevents opening the system with the dreaded possibility of air entry into the system. (I read somewhere in a Rotax bulletin that leaving some residual oil in the cooler is OK in oil changes). I change oil every 30 hours. So, one thing leads to another, but oil cooling is not a problem. Best Richard Classic number 168, Monowheel, Rotax 912 UL, Warpdrive fixed, 600 hours, reg 5Y-LRY Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456249#456249 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.