---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 05/27/16: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:41 AM - Re: Tail plane torque tube assembly tips needed (Graeme Hart) 2. 03:29 AM - Re: Tail plane torque tube assembly tips needed (Lance Sandford) 3. 06:33 AM - Rotax 914 Airbox / Fuel Pressure Differential (flyingphil2) 4. 07:41 AM - Re: Rotax 914 Airbox / Fuel Pressure Differential (Robert Borger) 5. 08:45 AM - Re: Rotax 914 Airbox / Fuel Pressure Differential (Jerry Rehn) 6. 09:55 AM - Re: Tail plane torque tube assembly tips needed (Fred Klein) 7. 10:39 AM - Re: DOTH: Le Touquet Trip - 26 May 2016 - resend () 8. 11:37 AM - Re: Rotax 914 Airbox / Fuel Pressure Differential (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 9. 12:08 PM - Re: Rotax 914 Airbox / Fuel Pressure Differential (Brian Davies) 10. 01:02 PM - Re: Rotax 914 Airbox / Fuel Pressure Differential (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 11. 08:25 PM - Re: Tail plane torque tube assembly tips needed (Graeme Hart) 12. 08:25 PM - Re: Tail plane torque tube assembly tips needed (Graeme Hart) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:41:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tail plane torque tube assembly tips needed From: Graeme Hart Thanks Alasdair My kit is American but the original British paperwork has the serial numbers 467 and 450 on it and is dated March 98 and March 99 so it is a very similar vintage. With the problems some have had with movement around the tube I don't mind having a snug fitting tube. The 230 pounds for a replacement and freight half way around the world are also a strong motivator for finding a solution using the existing parts. I might try heating a room to 35 degrees C and putting the parts in there for an hour or two to see if that loosens them up. Another option which I will follow anyway for enlarging the holes to take a 3/8" pin is to find someone who is an expert with metalwork and get them to do the job. Even if I have to pay someone it will be cheaper than buying a new tube and I'll know the job has been done properly. On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Alasdair Milne wrote: > Hi Graeme, > > > My kit around 2000 I had the same problem. I spent a long time trying to > lap the outer parts for the tailplanes to the tube. I think that is > possible but I gave up and got a replacement tube from Europa. I believe > that kit was No 517 or thereabouts. > > > Alasdair > > > *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Graeme Hart > *Sent:* 26 May 2016 12:02 > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Europa-List: Tail plane torque tube assembly tips needed > > > Hi All > > I am about to assemble my tail plane torque tube for the first time and > need some advice. This is from an approximately 1999 vintage Trigear XS > kit if that affects the answer. > > I have pictures showing the torque tube assembled on a bench by a previous > owner so I know the parts fit together. > > The parts such as TP12 and TP9 are an extremely tight fit over the tube > TP4. > > During summer I managed to partially install TP12 on the end of TP4. This > was after the parts had been sitting in the car and they were quite warm. > This makes me think heat may be part of the answer. I don't know the > temperature they reached but it could have been up to 35 degrees C from the > car but more likely about 25. > > Now when I try to remove TP12 it won't budge. > > I'd appreciate any suggestions or advice from those who have done it > before. > > > Thanks > Graeme > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:50 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tail plane torque tube assembly tips needed From: Lance Sandford Graeme Where is half-way around the world? Lance On 27/05/16 19:40, Graeme Hart wrote: > Thanks Alasdair > > My kit is American but the original British paperwork has the serial > numbers 467 and 450 on it and is dated March 98 and March 99 so it is > a very similar vintage. > > With the problems some have had with movement around the tube I don't > mind having a snug fitting tube. The 230 pounds for a replacement and > freight half way around the world are also a strong motivator for > finding a solution using the existing parts. > > I might try heating a room to 35 degrees C and putting the parts in > there for an hour or two to see if that loosens them up. Another > option which I will follow anyway for enlarging the holes to take a > 3/8" pin is to find someone who is an expert with metalwork and get > them to do the job. Even if I have to pay someone it will be cheaper > than buying a new tube and I'll know the job has been done properly. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:35 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 914 Airbox / Fuel Pressure Differential From: "flyingphil2" This is a question for those who have a 914 up at the front. With the 914uls the best way to monitor fuel pressure is to monitor the fuel / airbox differential pressure. I'm looking for a simple and 'tried and tested' way of doing this. Can anyone recommend a setup for this? I see there are a variety of dual gauges available and also gauges that do the calculation for you (via sensors) and just have a single needle showing the differential. Any input or advice of what other people have done would be welcome. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456603#456603 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:58 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 Airbox / Fuel Pressure Differential From: Robert Borger Phil, I installed the UMA differential pressure gage: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/in/fuelinstrumentation_uma/fuelairboxd iff10-05562-3.php A bit pricey but it works fine for me. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com > On May 27, 2016, at 8:32 AM, flyingphil2 wrote: > > > This is a question for those who have a 914 up at the front. > > With the 914uls the best way to monitor fuel pressure is to monitor the fuel / airbox differential pressure. I'm looking for a simple and 'tried and tested' way of doing this. Can anyone recommend a setup for this? I see there are a variety of dual gauges available and also gauges that do the calculation for you (via sensors) and just have a single needle showing the differential. > > Any input or advice of what other people have done would be welcome. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:18 AM PST US From: Jerry Rehn Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 Airbox / Fuel Pressure Differential I have the UMA as well , easy to install, one gauge, been in for many years t rouble free. Jerry Sent from my iPad > On May 27, 2016, at 7:40 AM, Robert Borger wrote: > > Phil, > > I installed the UMA differential pressure gage: > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/in/fuelinstrumentation_uma/fuelairboxd iff10-05562-3.php > > A bit pricey but it works fine for me. > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger > Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). > Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208-5331 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > rlborger@mac.com > >> On May 27, 2016, at 8:32 AM, flyingphil2 wrote: >> ff@yahoo.co.uk> >> >> This is a question for those who have a 914 up at the front. >> >> With the 914uls the best way to monitor fuel pressure is to monitor the f uel / airbox differential pressure. I'm looking for a simple and 'tried and tested' way of doing this. Can anyone recommend a setup for this? I see t here are a variety of dual gauges available and also gauges that do the calc ulation for you (via sensors) and just have a single needle showing the diff erential. >> >> Any input or advice of what other people have done would be welcome. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:55:25 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tail plane torque tube assembly tips needed > On May 27, 2016, at 2:40 AM, Graeme Hart wrote: > > Another option which I will follow anyway for enlarging the holes to take a 3/8" pin is to find someone who is an expert with metalwork and get them to do the job. Graemewhen I initially thought about enlarging for the 3/8=9D pins, I assumed I=99d just use my trusty drill pressFORTUNATELY, before doing so, wiser heads prevailed and I took the assembly to a machine shop where the work was expertly done. Given that this assembly is a critical component for safe flight, caution and care are called for to avoid a sloppy fit. F. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:39:25 AM PST US From: Subject: Europa-List: RE: DOTH: Le Touquet Trip - 26 May 2016 - resend Previous posting appeared to bounce from the List, so here goes again. Mike From: Mike Gregory [mailto:m.j.gregory.t21@btinternet.com] Sent: 27 May 2016 11:14 Cc: 'Adrian Stephens'; 'davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk'; 'Schmidtroland'; 'houlihan'; 'David Steade'; 'AA_Fiona _Fiona'; 'Mark Eavers'; 'ADRIAN D STEPHENS'; 'Michael Porter'; 'Bob Fairall'; 'James Kelly'; 'Mike Gregory' Subject: RE: DOTH: Le Touquet Trip - 26 May 2016 Many thanks to those who sent words of encouragement for yesterday's DOTH to Le Touquet, despite being unable to join us themselves. It was probably too short notice for such a trip, and only Adrian and I made it. Here are two snapshots - to prove that Adrian is no longer a Channel virgin, and to show the resort delights that await those manage to make it to Le Touquet. The French air traffic controllers' strike did not appear to have any effect on us, as Lille responded promptly to our mid-Channel call and passed us on to Le Touquet at point N - all very friendly and helpful. I hope that this message will act as a spur to all to support David Joyce's re-planned fly-out later in the year, which with luck will have good weather. Best wishes, Mike Dr Mike Gregory 01480 451655 07885 355765 From: Mike Gregory [mailto:m.j.gregory.t21@btinternet.com] Sent: 25 May 2016 17:46 Cc: 'Adrian Stephens'; 'davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk'; 'Schmidtroland'; 'houlihan'; 'David Steade'; 'AA_Fiona _Fiona'; 'Mark Eavers'; 'ADRIAN D STEPHENS'; 'Michael Porter'; 'Bob Fairall'; 'James Kelly'; 'Mike Gregory' Subject: DOTH: Le Touquet Trip - 26 May 2016 Following the cancellation of last Saturday's fly-out to Le Touquet because of poor weather, Adrian Stephens and I did not wish to let our enthusiasm for the trip fade away, and are planning to take advantage of tomorrow's much better weather. We shall be setting off tomorrow in Adrian's Europa G-EUAB from Cambridge, aiming to arrive at Le Touquet around 1200 local (1000 UTC). It is some time since anyone called for a fly-out at a drop of the hat (DOTH), so we thought this would be a good opportunity to encourage other Europas to head for LFAT tomorrow, 26th May. I cannot recall a previous DOTH nomination for a foreign field, so perhaps we may establish a first - apologies for the short notice! I am copying this to all who had expressed a wish to come last Saturday, in the hope that they in particular can revive their plans - but all are welcome. Best regards, Mike Dr Mike Gregory 01480 451655 07885 355765 From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk [mailto:davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk] Sent: 20 May 2016 13:09 ADRIAN D STEPHENS; Michael Porter; Bob Fairall; James Kelly; Mike Gregory; John Wighton; dpy01 Cc: Tim Weert Subject: Re: Le Touquet Trip - Cancelled. Dear All, I am sorry to say that as of 1300BST today, (Friday) tomorrow's forecast has not changed significantly from last night, except wind now 12 gusting 20kts, more or less cross; fair bit of rain around and RASP showing if anything lower cloud base with mostly 500-1000 ft over S coast and our half of the Channel. Gramet is a bit more optimistic, but I have found their cloudbase predictipns to be appreciably less reliable than RASP. I an sad to say that it is clearly inappropriate to proceed with the trip this W/E, so it is now formally CANCELLED. I will look out for a possible date to try again later in the year. Regards, David ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:37:41 AM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 Airbox / Fuel Pressure Differential Phil, I am all for minimising the time you spend eyes down, (having experienced 5 mid air near misses with 3 probably fatal had I not been looking out!). From this point of view, I would doubt the value of a fuel pressure guage, as opposed to a low fuel pressure warning light, which shines a bright red light at you if pressure falls below a set level. To this end I sourced an on/off fuel pressure switch set to light up if pressure fell below 3 psi (as I remember it - but it should be easy enough to find a pressure well below normal running pressure and above what will stop you flying). This worked well for me in running my main tank dry. I found it came on in plenty of time for me to switch to reserve before the engine coughed. It would also, I guess, work well if you had a partially clogged filter and needed to switch on pump 2 and reduce power to limp home, as happened to the company demontrator in early days. I cannot think of any very good reasons to need a fuel pressure gauge apart from these instances. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2016-05-27 14:32, flyingphil2 wrote: > > This is a question for those who have a 914 up at the front. > > With the 914uls the best way to monitor fuel pressure is to monitor the fuel / airbox differential pressure. I'm looking for a simple and 'tried and tested' way of doing this. Can anyone recommend a setup for this? I see there are a variety of dual gauges available and also gauges that do the calculation for you (via sensors) and just have a single needle showing the differential. > > Any input or advice of what other people have done would be welcome. > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456603#456603 [1] > Links: ------ [1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456603#456603 [2] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [3] http://forums.matronics.com [4] http://wiki.matronics.com [5] http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:49 PM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 914 Airbox / Fuel Pressure Differential I don=99t often disagree with you David but I think a fuel pressure gauge is a very useful indicator of impending problems, including filter blockage and fuel vaporisation. When the red light comes on it is all too late. Regards Brian From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Sent: 27 May 2016 19:36 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 Airbox / Fuel Pressure Differential Phil, I am all for minimising the time you spend eyes down, (having experienced 5 mid air near misses with 3 probably fatal had I not been looking out!). From this point of view, I would doubt the value of a fuel pressure guage, as opposed to a low fuel pressure warning light, which shines a bright red light at you if pressure falls below a set level. To this end I sourced an on/off fuel pressure switch set to light up if pressure fell below 3 psi (as I remember it - but it should be easy enough to find a pressure well below normal running pressure and above what will stop you flying). This worked well for me in running my main tank dry. I found it came on in plenty of time for me to switch to reserve before the engine coughed. It would also, I guess, work well if you had a partially clogged filter and needed to switch on pump 2 and reduce power to limp home, as happened to the company demontrator in early days. I cannot think of any very good reasons to need a fuel pressure gauge apart from these instances. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2016-05-27 14:32, flyingphil2 wrote: This is a question for those who have a 914 up at the front. With the 914uls the best way to monitor fuel pressure is to monitor the fuel / airbox differential pressure. I'm looking for a simple and 'tried and tested' way of doing this. Can anyone recommend a setup for this? I see there are a variety of dual gauges available and also gauges that do the calculation for you (via sensors) and just have a single needle showing the differential. Any input or advice of what other people have done would be welcome. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456603#456603 ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ics.com .com .matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:59 PM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 914 Airbox / Fuel Pressure Differential Brian, I bow (to the point of grovelling in fact!) to your infinitely superior engineering knowledge, but have you in fact found a use for it practically? A theoretical value is all very well but I have found no practical value in 14 yrs flying a 914, other than the instances I cite, and I am entirely persuaded of the value of looking out the front, to avoid the other b*****rs coming straight at you whilst carefully working their way along their rows of dials, trying to remember what they should be saying or said last time they looked! One person's experience does not a thesis make, but three occasions where a head on collision was only averted by me turning abruptly whilst the other party cruised straight on with no sign of having seen me, certainly persuades me of the value of designing one's panel to be able to spend as much time looking out as one would devote to it travelling down a busy motorway, where at least the likely collision candidates are going in the same direction! Looking at a gauge for impending problems , implies a lot of eyes down attention Regards, David On 2016-05-27 20:07, Brian Davies wrote: > I don't often disagree with you David but I think a fuel pressure gauge is a very useful indicator of impending problems, including filter blockage and fuel vaporisation. When the red light comes on it is all too late. > > Regards > > Brian > > FROM: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] ON BEHALF OF davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk > SENT: 27 May 2016 19:36 > TO: europa-list@matronics.com > SUBJECT: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 Airbox / Fuel Pressure Differential > > Phil, I am all for minimising the time you spend eyes down, (having experienced 5 mid air near misses with 3 probably fatal had I not been looking out!). >From this point of view, I would doubt the value of a fuel pressure guage, as opposed to a low fuel pressure warning light, which shines a bright red light at you if pressure falls below a set level. To this end I sourced an on/off fuel pressure switch set to light up if pressure fell below 3 psi (as I remember it - but it should be easy enough to find a pressure well below normal running pressure and above what will stop you flying). This worked well for me in running my main tank dry. I found it came on in plenty of time for me to switch to reserve before the engine coughed. It would also, I guess, work well if you had a partially clogged filter and needed to switch on pump 2 and reduce power to limp home, as happened to the company demontrator in early days. I cannot think of any very good reasons to need a fuel pressu re gauge apart from these instances. > > Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ > > On 2016-05-27 14:32, flyingphil2 wrote: > >> >> This is a question for those who have a 914 up at the front. >> >> With the 914uls the best way to monitor fuel pressure is to monitor the fuel / airbox differential pressure. I'm looking for a simple and 'tried and tested' way of doing this. Can anyone recommend a setup for this? I see there are a variety of dual gauges available and also gauges that do the calculation for you (via sensors) and just have a single needle showing the differential. >> >> Any input or advice of what other people have done would be welcome. >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456603#456603 [1] >> >> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> >> ics.com >> >> .com >> >> .matronics.com/contribution Links: ------ [1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456603#456603 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tail plane torque tube assembly tips needed From: Graeme Hart Hi Lance Half way is Wellington, New Zealand. On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:28 PM, Lance Sandford wrote: > lsandford@westnet.com.au> > > Graeme > > Where is half-way around the world? > > Lance > > On 27/05/16 19:40, Graeme Hart wrote: > >> Thanks Alasdair >> >> My kit is American but the original British paperwork has the serial >> numbers 467 and 450 on it and is dated March 98 and March 99 so it is a >> very similar vintage. >> >> With the problems some have had with movement around the tube I don't >> mind having a snug fitting tube. The 230 pounds for a replacement and >> freight half way around the world are also a strong motivator for finding a >> solution using the existing parts. >> >> I might try heating a room to 35 degrees C and putting the parts in there >> for an hour or two to see if that loosens them up. Another option which I >> will follow anyway for enlarging the holes to take a 3/8" pin is to find >> someone who is an expert with metalwork and get them to do the job. Even >> if I have to pay someone it will be cheaper than buying a new tube and I'll >> know the job has been done properly. >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tail plane torque tube assembly tips needed From: Graeme Hart Thanks Fred. I don't have a drill press I trust so I will definitely engage a professional. I also have a spot of welding for them to do. On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 4:54 AM, Fred Klein wrote: > > On May 27, 2016, at 2:40 AM, Graeme Hart > wrote: > > Another option which I will follow anyway for enlarging the holes to take > a 3/8" pin is to find someone who is an expert with metalwork and get the m > to do the job. > > > Graemewhen I initially thought about enlarging for the 3/8 =9D pins, I > assumed I=99d just use my trusty drill press*FORTUNATELY,* before doing > so, wiser heads prevailed and I took the assembly to a machine shop where > the work was expertly done. > > Given that this assembly is a critical component for safe flight, caution > and care are called for to avoid a sloppy fit. > > F. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.