Europa-List Digest Archive

Mon 07/04/16


Total Messages Posted: 15



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:37 AM - Re: Re: New Smartphone App for pilots (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
     2. 06:03 AM - Re: New Smartphone App for pilots (rampil)
     3. 07:59 AM - Re: SKyview 10" (Erich Trombley)
     4. 09:00 AM - Re: SKyview 10" (carlp101)
     5. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: SKyview 10" (Alan Burrill)
     6. 11:05 AM - Re: Re: SKyview 10" (David Watts)
     7. 11:19 AM - Power settings for 75% power in cruise VP prop? (jonathanmilbank)
     8. 11:41 AM - Re: Power settings for 75% power in cruise VP prop? (David Watts)
     9. 11:42 AM - Re: Re: SKyview 10" (Alan Burrill)
    10. 11:57 AM - Re: Power settings for 75% power in cruise VP prop? (Alan Burrill)
    11. 12:20 PM - Re: Power settings for 75% power in cruise VP prop? (David Watts)
    12. 12:58 PM - Re: Power settings for 75% power in cruise VP prop? (jonathanmilbank)
    13. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: New Smartphone App for pilots (Chris Cameron)
    14. 02:29 PM - Re: Power settings for 75% power in cruise VP prop? (Rick Moss)
    15. 04:10 PM - Re: Re: Power settings for 75% power in cruise VP prop? (Alan Burrill)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:37:05 AM PST US
    From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
    Subject: Re: New Smartphone App for pilots
    Chris, That sounds pretty accurate to me! If you are always within 50ft you are doing well regardless of how much you pay for an altimeter. But if the discrepancy is consistent you can always apply your own correction factor at the rate of 1mbar/hectopascal per 30ft. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2016-07-03 22:09, Chris Cameron wrote: > > Hi Ira, > > I've downloaded your app and am currently experimenting with it. However, this morning, I set the QNH according to the current METAR and as I drove past the airport, avAltimeter reported the altitude as ~50ft below the published altitude of the airport (published altitude of the airport is 40ft, my reported altitude was -10ft!). > > Does there need to be an option to calibrate the iPhone? > > Cheers > Chris > Sent from my iPad > > Links: ------ [1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457597#457597 [2] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [3] http://forums.matronics.com [4] http://wiki.matronics.com [5] http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:03:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: New Smartphone App for pilots
    From: "rampil" <ira.rampil@gmail.com>
    Hi Chris, I'm sorry you are finding the altimeter reading inaccurate. One could put a calibration in, but it would complicate the user interface and one should be aware that the calibration curve would not be expected to be constant with altitude, so what you adjust on the ground will be off in the air. Still I appreciate the PIREP! I don't know about the specs for NZ aircraft, but in the US a range of 75' is typically what you would expect between aircraft on the ground, all set to the QNH. For present, I would have to agree with David. Please remember, this app is for "educational and entertainment" value. Please do not attempt to perform an ILS approach to minimums using the app for vertical guidance ;) In other app news, I have discovered my knowledge of Apple hardware was somewhat dated and that some new iPads do indeed have barometric sensing. I am currently modifying the app to Universal mode where it will run on all qualified hardware. That would include iPad Mini 4, iPad Air 2, and the iPad Pro series. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457707#457707


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:59:03 AM PST US
    From: Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley@juno.com>
    Subject: Re: SKyview 10"
    Hi Carl, Nice installation! Looks like you have all the bells and whistles. Enjoy. Erich Trombley Classic Mono 914 ____________________________________________________________ Affordable Wireless Plans Set up is easy. Get online in minutes. Starting at only $9.95 per month! www.netzero.net?refcd=nzmem0216


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:00:01 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: SKyview 10"
    From: "carlp101" <cparkinson@cisc-uk.com>
    Thanks Erich. I've now integrated a PilotAware traffic monitoring system too, so I get live traffic. It works really well. All the best. Carl Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457709#457709


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:33:20 AM PST US
    From: Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: SKyview 10"
    Carl, Interesting as I'm working with the Conspicuity working group and have been trying a POWER FLARM with a V3+ LED Display. Be interested in your feed back on the use of your set up and how your getting on with the traffic awareness point of view - did you realise that if you flew into AeroExpo you could have got some money towards your fuel if you had completed a feedback form. I'm finding that I am picking up a lot of Mode A transponders but not many Mode-S or even ADS-B at the moment and flew into Sywell for all three days and also again to day into Elstree. I'm really pleased therefore with being able to get alerts for Mode A/C as it would appear that the number of GA conflicts with anything else is few and far between at the moment. If you get a chance to drop into Brimpton let me know and I'll meet you there for a chat. Alan Burrill G-OBJT Sent from my iPad > On 4 Jul 2016, at 16:56, carlp101 <cparkinson@cisc-uk.com> wrote: > > > Thanks Erich. > > I've now integrated a PilotAware traffic monitoring system too, so I get live traffic. It works really well. > > All the best. > Carl > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457709#457709 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 11:05:53 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: SKyview 10"
    From: David Watts <dg.watts@talktalk.net>
    Alan and Carl, I have been running a Power Flarm for about 2 years now displaying on a Mini iPad with Skydemon and for almost a year I have also been running PilotAware displaying on a second mini iPad also with Skydemon and this setup has for the last 6 weeks been upgraded to the new PilotAware Classic which shows Mode S as well although I haven't linked the audio option yet S I've been a bit busy lately. I have also had a day with NATS when me and Kevin Challis in his Tri Gear ran some conspicuity trials and last weekend I flew in to AeroExpo again on the NATS trial. Before I start my observations I should point out that no more than a glance should be given to the traffic awareness system, you should spend nearly all of your time looking out of the windows, that is where the threat is, the system is just trying to help you look in the right place. My observations are that the Power Flarm is good at displaying everything, ie. gliders using Flarm, aircraft using ADSB out (both me and Kevin have enabled this option through the LAA scheme) and other transponders. However it falls down by only showing the Flarm and ADSB as aircraft symbols in their relative position to me plus their height, whilst Mode S/C/A transponders are shown merely as a circle around my aircraft symbol at their relative distance but also showing their height. So when it comes up I have to have a look right round (which is obviously difficult to the rear). On the other hand PilotAware shows ADSB and Mode S aircraft as a symbol plus their direction height and registration but no depiction of Mode A/C at all. This is a problem as judging by my experiences so far, I would say that this probably means that only half the traffic flying are being displayed, although that display is in a much better format. PilotAware also shows other PilotAware users but those numbers are very low at the moment. In the trials that we did with NATS they had a new, prototype all in one, with mini screen, traffic box that we trialled that showed ADSB, Flarm and Mode A/C/S. Unfortunately we only flew with it for about 2 hours, but what we saw looked very promising, although Mode A/C depiction was only as a note on the side of the screen. What we really need is for everybody to enable ADSB out. This is very simple if you have a fitted GPS and a Mode S Transponder that is ADSB out enabled (most of the current breed are). It just needs one wire to connect the two and the paperwork through the LAA is ultra simple and no charge. You would then be properly seen by all traffic systems. It's still early days, but the future looks hopeful, and having had 2 ultra near misses, I look forward to the day. In near miss one, I was just under the cloud base and an aircraft came down out of the cloud right in front of me. We both banked away and I recon we missed by about 20ft. The second was even closer. I was in the circuit on right base looking at the runway. I looked round out of my window and all I saw was a cowling. I pushed the stick really hard, it all went dark and then looking right I saw a twin disappear into the distance without deviation. Phew!!!!!! Dave Watts G-BXDY Classic Monowheel 2230 hours > On 4 Jul 2016, at 17:32, Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk> wrote: > > > Carl, > > Interesting as I'm working with the Conspicuity working group and have been trying a POWER FLARM with a V3+ LED Display. > > Be interested in your feed back on the use of your set up and how your getting on with the traffic awareness point of view - did you realise that if you flew into AeroExpo you could have got some money towards your fuel if you had completed a feedback form. > > I'm finding that I am picking up a lot of Mode A transponders but not many Mode-S or even ADS-B at the moment and flew into Sywell for all three days and also again to day into Elstree. > > I'm really pleased therefore with being able to get alerts for Mode A/C as it would appear that the number of GA conflicts with anything else is few and far between at the moment. > > If you get a chance to drop into Brimpton let me know and I'll meet you there for a chat. > > Alan Burrill > G-OBJT > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 4 Jul 2016, at 16:56, carlp101 <cparkinson@cisc-uk.com> wrote: >> >> >> Thanks Erich. >> >> I've now integrated a PilotAware traffic monitoring system too, so I get live traffic. It works really well. >> >> All the best. >> Carl >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457709#457709 > > > > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 11:19:34 AM PST US
    Subject: Power settings for 75% power in cruise VP prop?
    From: "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
    My question is addressed to those with a Rotax 912S and VP prop combination. I believe that 75% power equates to 18.5 litres / hour in the cruise. In my Classic Europa tri-gear, this gives 115 to 120 KIAS cruise and is generally achieved around 4700 rpm, which agrees very well with Kevin Dilks' suggested rpm "sweet spot". Certainly I don't enjoy the louder and less smooth cruise at 5000 rpm. So my question "What cruise power settings do you use and how do you know when you're at 75% power with a VP prop?" Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457716#457716


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:41:24 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Power settings for 75% power in cruise VP prop?
    From: David Watts <dg.watts@talktalk.net>
    Jonathan, This is all done using rpm and manifold pressure. The Rotax Operators Manual is the place to go for this information in the Performance Data section. There it says that 75% is 5000 rpm and 27.2 inches manifold pressure. 65% is 4800 rpm and 26.5 inches manifold pressure. I tend to run 4900 rpm and 24 inches for general messing around or increase to 25 inches if I am going somewhere or if I'm in a hurry then 26 inches. Dave Watts G-BXDY Classic Monowheel 2230 hours > On 4 Jul 2016, at 19:19, jonathanmilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > > My question is addressed to those with a Rotax 912S and VP prop combination. I believe that 75% power equates to 18.5 litres / hour in the cruise. In my Classic Europa tri-gear, this gives 115 to 120 KIAS cruise and is generally achieved around 4700 rpm, which agrees very well with Kevin Dilks' suggested rpm "sweet spot". Certainly I don't enjoy the louder and less smooth cruise at 5000 rpm. > > So my question "What cruise power settings do you use and how do you know when you're at 75% power with a VP prop?" > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457716#457716 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:42:06 AM PST US
    From: Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: SKyview 10"
    Thanks David I also work with the NATS Team and have been conducting many of the formal trials with the LPAT and also acting as a target aircraft for others trialling the device. Like you I also have ADS-B out enabled and your experience regarding displays I echo including the point about any display device being a prompt and aid to the view out of the window. The reason for my selection of the V3+ butterfly is exactly for that reason as it is small enough to be unobtrusive and providing audio and visual prompts of a potential threat. While I have used PiWare display on a Tablet I found the brain power taking time to decipher out the threats from many non threatening ADS-B targets approaching Heathrow was distracting from the view out of the window. Alan GOBJT Sent from my iPad > On 4 Jul 2016, at 19:05, David Watts <dg.watts@talktalk.net> wrote: > > > Alan and Carl, > > I have been running a Power Flarm for about 2 years now displaying on a Mini iPad with Skydemon and for almost a year I have also been running PilotAware displaying on a second mini iPad also with Skydemon and this setup has for the last 6 weeks been upgraded to the new PilotAware Classic which shows Mode S as well although I haven't linked the audio option yet S I've been a bit busy lately. > > I have also had a day with NATS when me and Kevin Challis in his Tri Gear ran some conspicuity trials and last weekend I flew in to AeroExpo again on the NATS trial. > > Before I start my observations I should point out that no more than a glance should be given to the traffic awareness system, you should spend nearly all of your time looking out of the windows, that is where the threat is, the system is just trying to help you look in the right place. > > My observations are that the Power Flarm is good at displaying everything, ie. gliders using Flarm, aircraft using ADSB out (both me and Kevin have enabled this option through the LAA scheme) and other transponders. However it falls down by only showing the Flarm and ADSB as aircraft symbols in their relative position to me plus their height, whilst Mode S/C/A transponders are shown merely as a circle around my aircraft symbol at their relative distance but also showing their height. So when it comes up I have to have a look right round (which is obviously difficult to the rear). > > On the other hand PilotAware shows ADSB and Mode S aircraft as a symbol plus their direction height and registration but no depiction of Mode A/C at all. This is a problem as judging by my experiences so far, I would say that this probably means that only half the traffic flying are being displayed, although that display is in a much better format. PilotAware also shows other PilotAware users but those numbers are very low at the moment. > > In the trials that we did with NATS they had a new, prototype all in one, with mini screen, traffic box that we trialled that showed ADSB, Flarm and Mode A/C/S. Unfortunately we only flew with it for about 2 hours, but what we saw looked very promising, although Mode A/C depiction was only as a note on the side of the screen. > > What we really need is for everybody to enable ADSB out. This is very simple if you have a fitted GPS and a Mode S Transponder that is ADSB out enabled (most of the current breed are). It just needs one wire to connect the two and the paperwork through the LAA is ultra simple and no charge. You would then be properly seen by all traffic systems. > > It's still early days, but the future looks hopeful, and having had 2 ultra near misses, I look forward to the day. > In near miss one, I was just under the cloud base and an aircraft came down out of the cloud right in front of me. We both banked away and I recon we missed by about 20ft. > The second was even closer. I was in the circuit on right base looking at the runway. I looked round out of my window and all I saw was a cowling. I pushed the stick really hard, it all went dark and then looking right I saw a twin disappear into the distance without deviation. Phew!!!!!! > > Dave Watts > G-BXDY Classic Monowheel 2230 hours > >> On 4 Jul 2016, at 17:32, Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk> wrote: >> >> >> Carl, >> >> Interesting as I'm working with the Conspicuity working group and have been trying a POWER FLARM with a V3+ LED Display. >> >> Be interested in your feed back on the use of your set up and how your getting on with the traffic awareness point of view - did you realise that if you flew into AeroExpo you could have got some money towards your fuel if you had completed a feedback form. >> >> I'm finding that I am picking up a lot of Mode A transponders but not many Mode-S or even ADS-B at the moment and flew into Sywell for all three days and also again to day into Elstree. >> >> I'm really pleased therefore with being able to get alerts for Mode A/C as it would appear that the number of GA conflicts with anything else is few and far between at the moment. >> >> If you get a chance to drop into Brimpton let me know and I'll meet you there for a chat. >> >> Alan Burrill >> G-OBJT >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 4 Jul 2016, at 16:56, carlp101 <cparkinson@cisc-uk.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Thanks Erich. >>> >>> I've now integrated a PilotAware traffic monitoring system too, so I get live traffic. It works really well. >>> >>> All the best. >>> Carl >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457709#457709 >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:57:12 AM PST US
    From: Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Power settings for 75% power in cruise VP prop?
    Jonathan. The ROTaX manual provides a power setting tables hopefully attached. The 75% power equates to 5000rpm and 26 MP. Alan GOBJT Sent from my iPad > On 4 Jul 2016, at 19:19, jonathanmilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > k> > > My question is addressed to those with a Rotax 912S and VP prop combinatio n. I believe that 75% power equates to 18.5 litres / hour in the cruise. In m y Classic Europa tri-gear, this gives 115 to 120 KIAS cruise and is generall y achieved around 4700 rpm, which agrees very well with Kevin Dilks' suggest ed rpm "sweet spot". Certainly I don't enjoy the louder and less smooth crui se at 5000 rpm. > > So my question "What cruise power settings do you use and how do you know w hen you're at 75% power with a VP prop?" > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457716#457716 > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 12:20:55 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Power settings for 75% power in cruise VP prop?
    From: David Watts <dg.watts@talktalk.net>
    Jonathan Oops, sorry I quoted the 912 figures and not the 912S. I have got both operators manuals because my daughter has got the 80 hp in her Europa. Dave Watts > On 4 Jul 2016, at 19:55, Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk> wrote: > > Jonathan. > > The ROTaX manual provides a power setting tables hopefully attached. > > The 75% power equates to 5000rpm and 26 MP. > > Alan > GOBJT > > Sent from my iPad > > <image1.PNG> > > >> On 4 Jul 2016, at 19:19, jonathanmilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> >> >> My question is addressed to those with a Rotax 912S and VP prop combination. I believe that 75% power equates to 18.5 litres / hour in the cruise. In my Classic Europa tri-gear, this gives 115 to 120 KIAS cruise and is generally achieved around 4700 rpm, which agrees very well with Kevin Dilks' suggested rpm "sweet spot". Certainly I don't enjoy the louder and less smooth cruise at 5000 rpm. >> >> So my question "What cruise power settings do you use and how do you know when you're at 75% power with a VP prop?" >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457716#457716 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > =================================== > =================================== > =================================== > =================================== > =================================== >> >> >>


    Message 12


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    Time: 12:58:59 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Power settings for 75% power in cruise VP prop?
    From: "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
    Guys, thanks for the replies. Firstly I don't have a manifold pressure guage, but only an old car economy guage to give warning of carburettor ice build-up. Permission was given for this and it works very well, although the needle moves in the opposite sense. Because my 912 ULS engine isn't turbo boosted, there's no chance of "overboosting". Now to my puzzlement about the consequence of using a constant speed Airmaster propeller and changes in horsepower without changing rpm. In my simple brain, if I have 5000 rpm selected for cruise and move the throttle within the governed range, then the horsepower MUST increase as I move the throttle from lowest position at which 5000 rpm can be maintained to the fully forward position. Therefore the tables provided in the engine manual become nonsensical regarding RPM vs horsepower. It's more likely to me that the only remaining approximation to horsepower being produced must be manifold pressure. So assuming I generally cruise at 4700 RPM for aural comfort, indicating 115 to 120 KIAS and at a fixed throttle position, what remains for me to have an idea of what % power I'm using is fuel consumption. Somehow I've acquired the idea that 18.5 litres/hour indicates about 75% power. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457721#457721


    Message 13


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    Time: 01:39:35 PM PST US
    From: Chris Cameron <chris@cameron.org.nz>
    Subject: Re: New Smartphone App for pilots
    Ira and David, This is my favourite altimeter app ( there is one other, Altimeter, that lets you set your current altitude, but no others that I've found that let you set the QNH), so I'll just have to remember to mentally adjust my altitude so I'm not below sea level! I understand what you're saying about complicating the UX and look forward to the universal version. Cheers Chris Sent from my iPad > On 5/07/2016, at 01:02, rampil <ira.rampil@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi Chris, > > I'm sorry you are finding the altimeter reading inaccurate. One could put > a calibration in, but it would complicate the user interface and one should > be aware that the calibration curve would not be expected to be constant > with altitude, so what you adjust on the ground will be off in the air. > Still I appreciate the PIREP! > > I don't know about the specs for NZ aircraft, but in the US a range of > 75' is typically what you would expect between aircraft on the ground, > all set to the QNH. For present, I would have to agree with David. Please > remember, this app is for "educational and entertainment" value. > > Please do not attempt to perform an ILS approach to minimums using the > app for vertical guidance ;) > > In other app news, I have discovered my knowledge of Apple hardware > was somewhat dated and that some new iPads do indeed have barometric > sensing. I am currently modifying the app to Universal mode where it will > run on all qualified hardware. That would include iPad Mini 4, iPad Air 2, > and the iPad Pro series. > > -------- > Ira N224XS > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457707#457707 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 02:29:07 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Power settings for 75% power in cruise VP prop?
    From: "Rick Moss" <Rkwmoss@gmail.com>
    Does anyone know if altitude (or more specifically barometric pressure) effects the fuel consumption at the specified 5000rpm/26" map? Or is it just that at higher altitudes require increased throttle settings to achieve 26" map? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457727#457727


    Message 15


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    Time: 04:10:18 PM PST US
    From: Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Power settings for 75% power in cruise VP prop?
    The VP prop will adjust itself within the limitations of the propellor pitch adjustment to maintain the rpm setting although if the throttle is not open sufficient there will be insufficient power to even maintain the set rpm on full fine and the rpm will drop at lower throttle settings. Therefore power is related to the throttle setting and this will adjust the MP until Wide Open Throttle is achieved. Full consumption will rise as you open the throttle and therefore produce more power. Not sure where you have obtained the 18.7 number from but the Power/Fuel Consumption performance graphs in the ROTAX Operating manual should be your guide and more important I suggest a MP Guage to provide you with the performance settings you want to achieve and also measurement of the fuel consumption for your aircraft at chosen cruise altitudes so you best able to determine the performance and range of your aircraft. Relying on someone else's figures is never wise. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 4 Jul 2016, at 20:58, jonathanmilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > > Guys, thanks for the replies. Firstly I don't have a manifold pressure guage, but only an old car economy guage to give warning of carburettor ice build-up. Permission was given for this and it works very well, although the needle moves in the opposite sense. Because my 912 ULS engine isn't turbo boosted, there's no chance of "overboosting". > > Now to my puzzlement about the consequence of using a constant speed Airmaster propeller and changes in horsepower without changing rpm. In my simple brain, if I have 5000 rpm selected for cruise and move the throttle within the governed range, then the horsepower MUST increase as I move the throttle from lowest position at which 5000 rpm can be maintained to the fully forward position. > > Therefore the tables provided in the engine manual become nonsensical regarding RPM vs horsepower. It's more likely to me that the only remaining approximation to horsepower being produced must be manifold pressure. > > So assuming I generally cruise at 4700 RPM for aural comfort, indicating 115 to 120 KIAS and at a fixed throttle position, what remains for me to have an idea of what % power I'm using is fuel consumption. Somehow I've acquired the idea that 18.5 litres/hour indicates about 75% power. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457721#457721 > > > > > > > > > >




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