---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/14/16: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:52 AM - Re: Re: Torque Tube enhancement after 400 hours (William Daniell) 2. 09:19 AM - Re: East Kirkby (Bill & Sue) 3. 10:30 AM - =?utf-8?Q?USA_Insurance? () 4. 11:19 AM - Re: USA Insurance (Robert Borger) 5. 12:20 PM - Re: Do you recognize this cockpit mod (Graeme Hart) 6. 07:11 PM - Oshkosh (Bud Yerly) 7. 07:15 PM - Re: USA Insurance (Bud Yerly) 8. 07:42 PM - Re: Oshkosh (Pete) 9. 08:36 PM - Re: Oshkosh (AirEupora) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:26 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Torque Tube enhancement after 400 hours I used bolt and half moon shaped inserts inside the tube to bolt everything together. I got the idea from someone else I forget who I think Remo. On a recent visit to Bud, he mentioned a much simpler method - an aluminium tube with nut plates. He said the strength of the material is irrelevant because it only serves to hold the nut plates. This is much more elegant and easier solution that the half moon inserts which are tricky to put in. Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 2:06 PM, ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net < ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net> wrote: > Same method (interference fit of the Factory oversize pins) worked for me > too. About 500hours now since it was done. My Permit Inspector thinks > there's a little within-tolerance play, but actually that's the > small clearance in the torque tube bearings; I'd rather those bearings had > some clearance than being tight, which they can be if not concentrically > aligned. > > > Duncan McF. > > ----Original Message---- > From: kjburns@btinternet.com > Date: 13/07/2016 09:58 > To: "europa-list@matronics.com" > Subj: Re: Europa-List: Re: Torque Tube enhancement after 400 hours > > > When building the torque tube up the ream the holes to interference fit > ... Or you will get movement . > There is an oversize limit to how big you can take the pins if you get it > wrong , but custom pins can be oversized (only up to that limit )to save > your bacon, any movement built in will increases in service . > 300 +hours on reamed / custom pins and no play ....advice taken from Andy > Draper UK laa /one of the original Europa production engineers. > > Regards > Kevin > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 13 Jul 2016, at 10:32, GBWFH2010 wrote: > > > > > > I had the same problem after doing the Loctite 'mod' and had slightly > more movement than your tailplane (after 300 hours). My inspector took > advice from the LAA who stated remedial action had to be taken prior to > Permit renewal. > > > > I decided I could not keep going trough this hassle so took the decision > to do one of the torque tube clamping mods. I chose the one offered by Pat > Tunney, whose help and assistance was superb, but I think Bob Harrison has > also designed a very good mod. It was a swine of a job to do but I am > really pleased with the results and after 200 hours there is no sign of any > movement. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > -------- > > Gordon Grant > > > > G-BWFH > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458119#458119 > > > > > > > > > > > > > &======================= > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:21 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: East Kirkby From: "Bill & Sue" David, Sue and I would like to join in if we may and the weather permits. I've seen the briefing sheet and we would arrive in our Sky Arrow G-SKYT as our Europa is no nearer being finished.... Regards Bill PS I did try to reply directly but got this: This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Delivery to the following recipients was aborted after 24.4 hour(s): * davidjoyce@doctors.org Reason: The following message to davidjoyce@doctors.org was undeliverable.The reason for the problem: Maximum Retry Queue Age Reached Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458177#458177 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:30:21 AM PST US From: Subject: Europa-List: =?utf-8?Q?USA_Insurance? DQoNCg0KDQpTaW5jZSBJIGFtIG5vdyA5MCUgZG9uZSwgd2l0aCBvbmx5IDkwJSB0byBnbywgSSBo YXZlIGRlY2lkZWQgdGhhdCBhIGJpZyBwdXNoIGlzIG5lZWRlZCB0byBnZXQgbXkgSmFiaXJ1IHBv d2VyZWQgRXVyb3BhIFhTIGNvbnZlbnRpb25hbCBnZWFyIGludG8gdGhlIGFpci4gTXkgaW50ZW50 aW9uIGlzIHRvIHRyYWlsZXIgaXQgdG8gQnVk4oCZcywgZ2V0IGhpbSB0byBkbyB0aGUgb25jZSwg b3IgdHdpY2UsIG92ZXIsIGhhdmUgaGltIGd1aWRlIG1lIHRvIHRocm91Z2ggdGhlIGRldGFpbHMg dG8gZmluaXNoIHRoZSBsYXN0IGZldyBkZXRhaWxzLCBnZXQgdGhlIGNvb2xpbmcgbW9kcyBkb25l LCB0aGVuLCB3aXRoIGEgbGl0dGxlIGx1Y2ssIGRvIGZpcnN0IGZsaWdodCwgNDAgaHIgdGVzdGlu ZywgYW5kIHNpZ25lZCBvZmYuDQoNCk5vdyBzb21lIG9mIHRoZSBsb2dpc3RpY3MuIERvZXMgYW55 b25lIGhhdmUgYW55IHJlY29tbWVuZGF0aW9ucyBvbiBodWxsIGluc3VyYW5jZSBkdXJpbmcgdGhl IHRyYW5zaXQgKEkganVzdCBzcG9rZSB3aXRoIG15IGF1dG8gaW5zdXJhbmNlIGd1eSBhbmQgaGUg Y29uZmlybXMgdGhhdCB0aGV5IHdpbGwgY292ZXIgdGhlIHRydWNrLCBjYW1wZXIsIG1vdG9yY3lj bGUsIGFuZCB0cmFpbGVyLCBidXQgTk9UIHRoZSBwbGFuZS4gU28gSSBhbSBpbiBuZWVkIG9mIGNv dmVyYWdlIGZvciB0aGUgdHJhbnNpdCBwaGFzZS4gVGhpcyB3b3VsZCB0aGVuIGNvbnZlcnQgaW50 byB0aGUgcHJvcGVyIGNvdmVyYWdlIGZvciBmbHlpbmcuDQoNCkFueSBpbnNpZ2h0IG9yIHN1Z2dl c3Rpb25zIHdvdWxkIGJlIHZlcnkgaGVscGZ1bC4NCg0KDQpUaGFua3MgaW4gYWR2YW5jZSwNCg0K TWlrZSBEdWFuZQ0KDQpFdXJvcGEgWFMga2l0IEEyMDcgDQoNCg0KU2VudCBmcm9tIFdpbmRvd3Mg TWFpbA= ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:19:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: USA Insurance From: Robert Borger Mike, FWIW, I=99ve been with AVEMCO since the beginning. Not the least expensive, but not the most expensive either. I=99ve no idea about response to a claim as I haven=99t had to file a claim. Check with them as well as with EAA and AOPA insurance agents. There are others who will insure your hull but I don=99t know who they are. Perhaps others will provide better resources. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jul 14, 2016, at 12:19 PM, duanefamly@aol.com wrote: Since I am now 90% done, with only 90% to go, I have decided that a big push is needed to get my Jabiru powered Europa XS conventional gear into the air. My intention is to trailer it to Bud=99s, get him to do the once, or twice, over, have him guide me to through the details to finish the last few details, get the cooling mods done, then, with a little luck, do first flight, 40 hr testing, and signed off. Now some of the logistics. Does anyone have any recommendations on hull insurance during the transit (I just spoke with my auto insurance guy and he confirms that they will cover the truck, camper, motorcycle, and trailer, but NOT the plane. So I am in need of coverage for the transit phase. This would then convert into the proper coverage for flying. Any insight or suggestions would be very helpful. Thanks in advance, Mike Duane Europa XS kit A207 Sent from Windows Mail ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:52 PM PST US From: Graeme Hart Subject: Re: Europa-List: Do you recognize this cockpit mod Bud Thank you for the very complete answer. I should have suspected Flight Crafters as there were some invoices for builder assistance from them with the kit. These were for the large glass over foam work and they appear to have done a beautiful job. The factory is working on a mod that involves what appears to be a significant change to the tunnel. As part of this change they have been through the engineering calculations with the LAA. My plan at this stage is to keep on with the build and address the gaping hole later. I expect by the time I need to address the gaping hole the mod will be out and I should be able to use that for ideas. I have also joined the LAA and I'll use their engineering services to review proposed fixes. Recently I've been looking at a lot of fuselage pictures and with the number of long slots for control levers most people appear to have cut up the tunnel quite a lot. Regards Graeme On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Bud Yerly wrote: > Graeme, > That was a Flight Crafters mod for the trigear only. However the Berube =99 > conventional often had it also. The flange was done in four layers. The > cover was normally done in a four layer, however, that is a structural > member and in a front end impact the aircraft with this mod will buckle > right across the canopy bow area if the area is cut down considerably lik e > flat from the back to the panel face. > I have made this cutout myself on many aircraft but frown on cutting the > tunnel lower. > To add structure back, I made the center console cover and the flanges ou t > of a compressed 6 layer piece of high density 8oz. glass. The cutout has > to be reinforced with a flange of considerable strength to maintain the > beam strength of the top. The flange must be six plies in my opinion and > run down on to the inside of the tunnel at least 3-4 inches overlapping > each two plies over each other to take the shear of an impact. The cover > plate is screwed in using #8 or 10 screws about 3 inches apart down the > sides. That makes for a robust part but it is considerably heavier than > the original couple of plies and some 3 mm foam. > > Note each engineering test firm has slightly different criteria ( I use > USAF Wright Patterson Data mostly), but a .009 thick glass ply has very > little compressive strength capability. If you layer say, six compressed > layers (i.e. no voids), at 15,000 psi for a thin flat hand laid plate you > only have .050 inches of glass and over three inches, the math says it wi ll > hold 750 pounds, but it has little compressive rigidness and will buckle > under load unless built like an angle iron. So make it thicker right! We ll > a uniform thickness with a glass to epoxy ratio of about even may get you > 100,000 PSI in a perfect sample built to nearly a 90 degree angle, which is > quite strong (it is now a longeron), but every hole and cut you put into > that cover and flange will in fact weaken it. Fiberglass peels in bendin g > shear so pay attention to your molding. I=99ve seen some ugly void s which > basically makes the structure suspect... > > I feel comfortable with a full ring of six plies well lapped onto the > tunnel wall all the way around and screws every three inches or so. The > cover plate should be at least 6 plies but it has to be esthetically abou t > the same as the piece you took out so it gets a bit thick. If you compre ss > the piece you took out to bending failure and you test your filler piece > and it is stronger, you did your job. I rely on the flanges being > considerably stronger than the original C section and assume the plate is > only a shear load. One must not forget to tie the original glass to the > new glass by hollowing out the edge and filling with flox and assure ther e > are no voids. Once complete, you can lift the plane with the panel > cutout. It is very rigid, and analytically should take the force of a > modest impact better than original. > > I also recommend that Trigear owners and those conventional conversions > consider a beam be added from wall to wall to make the seat areas connect > with one another if cutting out the tunnel. That makes a brutally strong > beam across the cockpit. Not really essential to the Trigear but worth > considering on the conventional conversion. After all, one does not care > to have his =99arse be the first item on the scene of the gear coll apse. > > Does my reinforcing work. A nameless client on a cross country impacted > the runway some 25 degrees nose low and porpoised some 4 times before > ramming the nose into the tarmac at a 30 degree angle and pushed the nose > gear leg into the center tunnel. The fuselage was completely intact but > all three gear were pretzels. Airport observers (mechanics watching the > approach and bounces) were astounded the aircraft was in such good shape. > No main structure was damaged. Yes the gear,were changed out and the > engine frame and nose gear, but more damage to the plane was done grindin g > off paint and inspecting it than was done by the =9Ccrash=9D. This is one > tough little airplane. If you want to stiffen the nose a bit more, lay a > 2mm or 1/8 inch foam and glass over with two layers to the area between t he > seat and the footwell step. That is the common impact failure area due t o > buckling I=99ve seen which puts more stress on the center tunnel. > > Nigel is correct. Unless you can prove your mod is as strong as the > original structure, don=99t fool with it. Put an access panel in t he belly > for the center tunnel and leave it alone. If you do cut it out, do your > homework. I did and I feel confident in my construction and am pleased > with its performance. I am as a builder my own inspector in the US, and > frankly the FAA rep just rolled his eyes and said you damn engineers, it > feels really strong to me so here is your airworthiness certificate. Hec k > of a thing we put up with. 419 PL was originally built in 2004, still > going strong. 12AY has bottom access only because it was faster lighter > and easier to do. > > Why avoid this mod, well it is a pain to sit in the seat and undo a > zillion screws to get to an item in the tunnel, then drop something and t ry > to bend over to feel around for it. The underbelly pan is a bit more > relaxing on a flat floor with a nice creeper to lay on. However it is > really dark in there and since gravity works 24/7 wear safety glasses as > every nut and bolt hits you in the face. It makes for great stomach > muscles as you continually cycle from the belly to the cockpit unscrewing > things. I have a love hate relationship with everything in an airplane s o > keep it light and simple. > > Note that the Europa Trigear mod which cuts out 1/3 of the side of the > tunnel has less glass than what I do and that was approved. There was al so > an approved foam and glass modification to cut down a tunnel approved bu t > it did not have a large removable panel. > > On the original mono I was always amazed how thin the glass was on the > center tunnel and as seen in crash photo=99s the tunnel will fail o n a mono. > Of course it fails on a very severe impact only. One cannot build to an > impact resistant aircraft as it would never get off the ground would it. > > That=99s my two cents of boring info. > > Best Regards, > Bud Yerly > Custom Flight Creations, Inc. > US Europa Dealer > > > Best Regards, > Bud Yerly > Custom Flight Creations. > > *From:* Graeme Hart > *Sent:* Thursday, July 07, 2016 7:16 PM > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Fwd: Europa-List: Do you recognise this cockpit mod > > Thanks Nigel > > While that is bad news it is also good news in that I'm only starting the > build so it shouldn't be too hard to fix compared with attempting to fix > when ready to fly. > > I am in New Zealand and with our smaller population it is a little harder > to find people with the experience your inspectors have. We also have a > much simpler inspection regime. > > I'll contact the Europa factory and get their advice on how to reinstate > the structure. Hopefully it will just be a matter of reinstating the > missing structure with a flat panel with an appropriate number of plys an d > a suitable overlap/bonding to the edges. > > On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 10:48 AM, nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk < > nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk> wrote: > >> Hi Graeme, >> >> I don't like to be the bearer of bad news but that mod was not (and neve r >> will be) approved in the UK. The centre tunnel is a critical structural >> component and by removing such a huge area of the box section, most of t he >> strength will have been removed with it. If it is your intention to buil d >> the airframe to flying condition, I would suggest involving your inspect or >> (one with proven composite skills) to advise on reconstructing the tunne l. >> >> The Europa has no longeron like structures forward of the seat moulding >> and it is only the tunnel that prevents the fuselage snapping off in the >> event of a high "G" arrival. Typically, the fracture initiates at the sh arp >> corner at the lower edge of the windscreen, propagates down the fuselage >> sides and across the floor. I have attached a picture of such a failure to >> help concentrate the mind (I have more!). >> >> Nigel >> >> >> >> On 07/07/2016 21:51, Graeme Hart wrote: >> >> Hi Alan >> >> It is a trigear and came as a trigear from the factory. >> >> It looks to me like the plan was to put a removable panel on the top. >> >> I have attached a better picture. >> On 7/07/2016 11:14 pm, "Alan Burrill" wrote: >> >>> >>> Tri-Gear or Monowheel? >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> GOBJT >>> > On 7 Jul 2016, at 11:35, Graeme Hart >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi All >>> > >>> > I have a kit that started out around 1999 and has been worked on by a >>> number of builder since them. >>> > >>> > Does anyone recognise the mod that has been done to the cockpit. A >>> lot of the top of the centre console has been cut out and reinforced ar ound >>> the edges. >>> > >>> > I'm hoping that this is a recognised mod and someone can point me at >>> documentation on what was intended. >>> > >>> > A picture of part of the cutout section is below (sorry I don't have >>> one of the entire cutout) >>> > >>> > I'd appreciate any leads on how this mod is intended to work. Also, >>> with this large hole in the top do you still need the fuel valve access >>> panel? >>> > >>> > >>> > Thanks >>> > Graeme >>> > <20160705_174300.jpg> >>> >>> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:13 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Europa-List: Oshkosh We are about 10 days out of the start of Oshkosh which runs from the 25th through the 31st of July 2016. It is time for everyone to know what our Europa owners/builders itinerary and opportunities are. As for me: I=99ll be departing for Oshkosh on the 21st. My Mom is in the hospital in Illinois so Anita and I will drop in to, KPIE (Peoria, Illinois) for a couple days then its just a short hop from Oshkosh on Sunday. I=99ll be staying with Jack McKenzie in the Dorms from Sunday night the 23rd and we both depart on Friday the 29th. I have family commitments which will prevent me from staying the full week. Jim and Heather Butcher will be there and so far on Monday we will showcase our two Europas. Tuesday I=99ll be with Airmaster most of the day. Wednesday we will have a late PM Europa Seminar with what is going on at Europa, parts availability, etc. Thursday night is the Homebuilders Dinner and normally we all congregate there. I=99ll be at Airmaster=99s booth for a good part of Thursday I know. If there are any other plans please let us know via the list here. If there are any folks unable to attend and are in need of specific information, let me know and we=99ll try to get some for you. Best Regards, Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations US Europa Dealer. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:47 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: USA Insurance Mike, I have Globe insurance through Falcon and it was a few days to get them to underwrite the transportation coverage. Note: Normal auto insurance will cover the auto, and trailer, but not the trailer contents. Some auto insurance companies will cover the contents but one must be specific and ask for it. Geiko covered one of my old clients. Regards, Bud Yerly From: Robert Borger Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 2:18 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: USA Insurance Mike, FWIW, I=99ve been with AVEMCO since the beginning. Not the least expensive, but not the most expensive either. I=99ve no idea about response to a claim as I haven=99t had to file a claim. Check with them as well as with EAA and AOPA insurance agents. There are others who will insure your hull but I don=99t know who they are. Perhaps others will provide better resources. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jul 14, 2016, at 12:19 PM, duanefamly@aol.com wrote: Since I am now 90% done, with only 90% to go, I have decided that a big push is needed to get my Jabiru powered Europa XS conventional gear into the air. My intention is to trailer it to Bud=99s, get him to do the once, or twice, over, have him guide me to through the details to finish the last few details, get the cooling mods done, then, with a little luck, do first flight, 40 hr testing, and signed off. Now some of the logistics. Does anyone have any recommendations on hull insurance during the transit (I just spoke with my auto insurance guy and he confirms that they will cover the truck, camper, motorcycle, and trailer, but NOT the plane. So I am in need of coverage for the transit phase. This would then convert into the proper coverage for flying. Any insight or suggestions would be very helpful. Thanks in advance, Mike Duane Europa XS kit A207 Sent from Windows Mail ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oshkosh From: Pete Since I'm not flying my HummelBird in this year (cracked crank), I'll be tra ilering in for the show (21st-31st) and as before the "Europa Cooler" will b e stocked with beer for the Europa faithful :-). Location is the same as al ways, on the first house lawn at the tower gate, trailer with the door facin g flight-line behind/beside the tree. Please do drop by, sip a brew and lea ve a note on the whiteboard beside the door :) I'll try and join in on all the Europa fun! Cheers and blue skies, Pete A239. (Still a pile of parts till my hangar is finished) PS- I'm now flying the SmartAss (as has been discussed in another thread) in the HB, and liking it https://youtu.be/A2AM5LGushs > On Jul 14, 2016, at 10:09 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: > > We are about 10 days out of the start of Oshkosh which runs from the 25th t hrough the 31st of July 2016. > > It is time for everyone to know what our Europa owners/builders itinerary a nd opportunities are. > > As for me: > I=99ll be departing for Oshkosh on the 21st. My Mom is in the hospi tal in Illinois so Anita and I will drop in to, KPIE (Peoria, Illinois) for a couple days then its just a short hop from Oshkosh on Sunday. > I=99ll be staying with Jack McKenzie in the Dorms from Sunday night t he 23rd and we both depart on Friday the 29th. I have family commitments wh ich will prevent me from staying the full week. > Jim and Heather Butcher will be there and so far on Monday we will showcas e our two Europas. > Tuesday I=99ll be with Airmaster most of the day. > Wednesday we will have a late PM Europa Seminar with what is going on at E uropa, parts availability, etc. > Thursday night is the Homebuilders Dinner and normally we all congregate t here. I=99ll be at Airmaster=99s booth for a good part of Thurs day I know. > > If there are any other plans please let us know via the list here. > > If there are any folks unable to attend and are in need of specific inform ation, let me know and we=99ll try to get some for you. > > > Best Regards, > > Bud Yerly > Custom Flight Creations > US Europa Dealer. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:31 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Oshkosh From: "AirEupora" I'm planning on leaving Northern California on Friday and hopefully will be able to make it to Ainsworth or Valetine, Nebraska that night. Hopefully I'll be in KOSH on Saturday afternoon. I might have a room for one. My barber and EAA member, has a medical problem, so he might not be able to attend for the first time in 38 years. Rooms in the dorms go for about 65-70 dollars a night, so half for somebody. I'd like to be able to park with other Europa's if anybody wants to join up on Saturday west of KOSH. RICK STOCKTON AIREUPORA@sbcglobal.net 707-330-1717 N120EJ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458207#458207 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.