---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/21/16: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:25 AM - Re: Non lifting weight allowance (rampil) 2. 08:01 AM - Re: New Panel - Master/Ignition Switches (rampil) 3. 08:47 AM - Re: Are you ready to takeoff for Oshkosh (Erich Trombley) 4. 08:47 AM - Re: New Panel - Master/Ignition Switches (italianjon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:11 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Non lifting weight allowance From: "rampil" Hi Wladimir, could you please clarify what you mean by "non-lifting weight allowance"? I think it is fair to say that most of the long wing aircraft are in the US, and your term is unfamiliar (to me at least). I have a set of long wings but have yet to fit them to my fuselage, and so have not done a Weight & Balance with them yet. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458480#458480 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:05 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: New Panel - Master/Ignition Switches From: "rampil" Hi Jon, Here are my thoughts regarding standard power and ignition switches. First, recognize that you are talking about four separate circuits here: 1) Master Buss Contactor power 2) Alternator Field power 3) Magneto Grounds 4) Starter Contactor In commercial light aircraft, these are usually grouped into two physical switch units. The standard keyed, rotary ignition (plus starter) switch is extremely robust and rugged and very unlikely to fail as befits a life-safety control. It is also quite compact in terms of panel space when compared with your proposal of replacing it with three separate switches, which if they are small will have minute contact areas compared with the big rotary. Small contact areas = short service life. The advantage to your proposal is possibly reduction in price and a minute advantage in weight. Just because Rotax draws the ignition circuit as two separate switches, does not imply that they do not favor standard aviation practice, as opposite to standard snowmobile practice. As for reliability, consider the relative reliability of three hobbyist grade switches for ignition/start vs a "bulletproof" AN spec'd part. In my Europa, I have a Bendix rotary plus a separate push button starter switch. The duty cycle on the start button is minute, but I have selected a part with can easily handle the 800 mA start Contactor load. The two power contractors are usually controlled by single pole on-off switches which can vary in form factor, i.e., bat / toggle, rocker, etc. In my PA-22, there are no contactors (Mr Piper was cheap). In this case the Master Power switch is On-Off-On, in case one side of the switch fails. Back to the standard arrangement: It is usually thought to be convenient to semi-gang them since except for very trouble shooting they operate together. For clarification, there is no such thing as a "standard pole" switch. The term pole refers to the number of circuits controlled by the switch , eg, one pole, double pole, 11-pole. I hope this helps set out the design issues for this part of panel design. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458483#458483 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:07 AM PST US From: "Erich Trombley" Subject: Europa-List: RE: Are you ready to takeoff for Oshkosh Hi Bud, Sorry to hear of your starter problem. I took an early flight t his morning in preparation for OSH. I had made a couple of modifications that I wanted to prove out. I must admit I didn't sleep very well wond ering if the Gremlins would come out to play as they did for you. I am happy to report all went well. Beautiful sunrise over Las Vegas. I am p lanning to arrive at OSH late Saturday afternoon, weather permitting. C an't wait to catch up with all of the Europa builders and flyers. Safe t ravels to all. Erich TrombleyN28ET Classic Mono 914 Bud wrote:In the r ush to get your bird ready, don’t cut corners, have a safe flight or drive and bring your shopping list. See you all on or about Sunday afternoon. I was looking at the weather and did my flight planning. I’m read y to go... Well sort of. I went for a confidence flight today (which did n’t raise my confidence) in preparation for leaving on Thursday to visit my Mom on the way up. Over the last three months 12AY has been fl ying great. In preparation for the Thursday departure I changed the oil, and put in a new battery yesterday, however, my confidence flight went poorly today as 12AY wouldn’t start at all (starter now removed as it is spinning at only 250 rpm on crank, unless charged to 13 volts, an d on disassembly one nut was found stripped and the armature was coated with baked on grease due to a worn front seal (only 400 hours). I had a poor mag check (350 drop initially and 300 after running it up) so I pul led the right carb to get to the starter anyway, and found a leaking rig ht carb bowl, I hope I have the “O” ring. I could smell gas in the cockpit and noted I developed a small fuel leak at the vent hose fitting (I tightened the clamp and it seemed to work). The climb and cru ise checks to 10,000 went well but the fuel low light came on at 17 gall ons (I hope all I need to do is reset parameters on my fuel totalizer). Worse yet my wife says I have to buy some new clothes with her tomorrow evening. So it will be a long, long, day tomorrow, but I am really looki ng forward to seeing you all. If the plane cannot be repaired and operat e at 100% by tomorrow on its confidence flight, I’ll drive up in t he car. I’m heeding my own advice to be safe and not cut corners. See you all there! Bud Yerly ____________________________________________________________ Affordable Wireless Plans Set up is easy. Get online in minutes. Starting at only $9.95 per month! www.netzero.net?refcd=nzmem0216 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:50 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: New Panel - Master/Ignition Switches From: "italianjon" Hi guys, Interesting food for thought. So it sees that there is no formal reason not to do what I would like to do, but a fair technical point. Panel space should not be a problem, as I am cleaning up the "small lower panel" by removing the currently installed engine instrumentation and that is going into a single EMS Xtreme from MGL on the centre panel. But yes, the reliability is worth thinking about. The main point that got me started down this "thought route" is why can we turn on our aircraft without a key, but you can't with the car... I started to think would it not be better to put the battery on the key and then everything else on simple toggle switches. A third point that came up today in a discussion I had at work about this is one of human factors... if I make my aircraft too different that does introduce risk when I fly something else. (I sometimes rent the club aircraft, when I need more than 2 seats) I am going to keep thinking on this one... some good points raised so far :) Regards Jon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458486#458486 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.