---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/28/16: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:04 AM - Re: Re: Unidentified Probe (Brian Davies) 2. 03:24 AM - Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground (Roland) 3. 04:10 AM - Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 4. 04:13 AM - Fw: Returned Mail: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 5. 04:22 AM - Fw: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 6. 06:35 AM - Fw: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground (rampil) 7. 07:19 AM - Fw: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground (Roland) 8. 09:50 AM - Rain passing through fuel cap (Rick Moss) 9. 09:58 AM - Re: Fw: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground (Trevor Pond) 10. 10:30 AM - Re: Rain passing through fuel cap (david park) 11. 11:37 AM - Re: Rain passing through fuel cap (Kevin Challis) 12. 11:47 AM - Re: Rain passing through fuel cap (david park) 13. 12:08 PM - Re: Rain passing through fuel cap (Bob Harrison) 14. 02:09 PM - Re: Rain passing through fuel cap (Rick Moss) 15. 03:22 PM - Fw: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground (zwakie) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:00 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Unidentified Probe Hi Bob, If you are using 50/50 water glycol mix it is a requirement to have both a CHT gauge and a water temp gauge. The engine limitations have different max temps for each. Most owners only have one CHT sensor. The very latest engines have a modified location for the CHT sensor which should remove the need to measure both. If you have the carb heat mod there does not seem much point in measuring carb temp. The reason you would measure carb temp is to warn of carb icing. Regards Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobD Sent: 27 July 2016 23:22 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Unidentified Probe Thanks for all the replies. My Europa does have a Carb Heat kit fitted, and from Paul's description, it is a Mk.2 I'll change the battery, and have a play with it, but I have already fitted the Water Temperature adapter from Skydrive, and plan to get a Dynon Skyview Panel to monitor, amongst other things, the Water Temp. I understand from elsewhere on the forum that Rotax do not fit a probe for Water Temp, but rely on Cylinder Head Temp for engine monitoring. I would like to keep an eye on the Water Temp, so have used one of the two Cylinder Head Probes for the Water Temp. This means at present, I will only be measuring CHT at one cylinder. Do other do this, or fit 2 or even four probes, and measure each Cylinder ? Is there any advantage in having both Water Temp, and Carb Temp (by using this probe ) ? Sorry for the initial confusion, both photos are of the same device from different angles. If it is self powered via the battery, any idea what the pinout connections are for ? TIA -------- Bob Dawson XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458802#458802 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:07 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground From: "Roland" Hello, I have the conventional XS cowling with the 914 and overheating might occur on the ground in high OAT's (25-30C). I've shut down the engine once when reaching 118C and then I could hear the 50/50 antifreeze boiling lightly. Does anyone know roughly the temperature gap between the CHT/CT (I only have a CHT gauge)? I've read on another forum, that increasing to 2700RPM (and switch to a courser pitch?) brings down the temperature. I also have a water Thermostate installed, which I'll remove in a first step to lower the CHT-temperatures on the ground and increase the time until I have to shut down the engine (when reaching 115C CHT). With this measure I (hopefully) increase the oil temperature at the same time (oil cooler partly covered by Radiator) so that I can taxi and take off earlier, since I don't have to wait for the oil to warm. Same goes after landing regarding the cooling run for the Turbo, when the CHT is creeping up quickly. What are your experiences especially without water Thermostate on the ground in high temperatures / measures to avoid overheating? I want to start with simple things before modifying the cooling tunnel, because I "only" have issues on the ground and quite satisfying setup for flying. Also modifications often end in a never ending story and often the only practical solution might be the best compromise... The cooling of the XS is only sufficient for English summers I'm afraid :-) Roland PH-ZTI XS TG 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458822#458822 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:21 AM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground Roland, I had endless problems with overheating with my 914/XS. Going to LAA Rally was a nightmare, because sitting in a queue to take off always led to overheating, needing me to pull out of the queue and shut down. I then had a Woodcomp SR2000 which is a low twist prop, very much like a Warp Drive one or pretty much any prop you see on a Rotax 91X. The problem is that at idling speeds the central part of the prop is in Beta mode, effectively diverting air from the cooling inlets. When I switched to a Woodcomp SR3000W the problem was abolished completely, quite apart from gaining an appreciable amount of performance (equivalent to an extra 7 horse power). I can now sit in a queue all day if needs be! Details in the attached paper which appeared in the Europa mag some years back. Photos are missing but not needed for understanding the science. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On 2016-07-28 11:22, Roland wrote: > > Hello, > > I have the conventional XS cowling with the 914 and overheating might occur on the ground in high OAT's (25-30C). I've shut down the engine once when reaching 118C and then I could hear the 50/50 antifreeze boiling lightly. Does anyone know roughly the temperature gap between the CHT/CT (I only have a CHT gauge)? > > I've read on another forum, that increasing to 2700RPM (and switch to a courser pitch?) brings down the temperature. I also have a water Thermostate installed, which I'll remove in a first step to lower the CHT-temperatures on the ground and increase the time until I have to shut down the engine (when reaching 115C CHT). With this measure I (hopefully) increase the oil temperature at the same time (oil cooler partly covered by Radiator) so that I can taxi and take off earlier, since I don't have to wait for the oil to warm. Same goes after landing regarding the cooling run for the Turbo, when the CHT is creeping up quickly. > > What are your experiences especially without water Thermostate on the ground in high temperatures / measures to avoid overheating? > > I want to start with simple things before modifying the cooling tunnel, because I "only" have issues on the ground and quite satisfying setup for flying. Also modifications often end in a never ending story and often the only practical solution might be the best compromise... > > The cooling of the XS is only sufficient for English summers I'm afraid :-) > > Roland > PH-ZTI > XS TG 914 > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458822#458822 [1] > Links: ------ [1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458822#458822 [2] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [3] http://forums.matronics.com [4] http://wiki.matronics.com [5] http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:31 AM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: Europa-List: Fwd: Returned Mail: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground Roland, I had endless problems with overheating with my 914/XS. Going to LAA Rally was a nightmare, because sitting in a queue to take off always led to overheating, needing me to pull out of the queue and shut down. I then had a Woodcomp SR2000 which is a low twist prop, very much like a Warp Drive one or pretty much any prop you see on a Rotax 91X. The problem is that at idling speeds the central part of the prop is in Beta mode, effectively diverting air from the cooling inlets. When I switched to a Woodcomp SR3000W the problem was abolished completely, quite apart from gaining an appreciable amount of performance (equivalent to an extra 7 horse power). I can now sit in a queue all day if needs be! Details in the attached paper which appeared in the Europa mag some years back. Photos are missing but not needed for understanding the science. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On 2016-07-28 11:22, Roland wrote: > Hello, I have the conventional XS cowling with the 914 and overheating might occur on the ground in high OAT's (25-30C). I've shut down the engine once when reaching 118C and then I could hear the 50/50 antifreeze boiling lightly. Does anyone know roughly the temperature gap between the CHT/CT (I only have a CHT gauge)? I've read on another forum, that increasing to 2700RPM (and switch to a courser pitch?) brings down the temperature. I also have a water Thermostate installed, which I'll remove in a first step to lower the CHT-temperatures on the ground and increase the time until I have to shut down the engine (when reaching 115C CHT). With this measure I (hopefully) increase the oil temperature at the same time (oil cooler partly covered by Radiator) so that I can taxi and take off earlier, since I don't have to wait for the oil to warm. Same goes after landing regarding the cooling run for the Turbo, when the CHT is creeping up quickly. What ar e your experiences especially without water Thermostate on the ground in high temperatures / measures to avoid overheating? I want to start with simple things before modifying the cooling tunnel, because I "only" have issues on the ground and quite satisfying setup for flying. Also modifications often end in a never ending story and often the only practical solution might be the best compromise... The cooling of the XS is only sufficient for English summers I'm afraid :-) Roland PH-ZTI XS TG 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458822#458822 [1] [1 [1]] Links: ------ [1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458822#458822 [1] [2] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [2] [3] http://forums.matronics.com [3] [4] http://wiki.matronics.com [4] [5] http://www.matronics.com/contribution [5] Links: ------ [1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458822#458822 [2] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [3] http://forums.matronics.com [4] http://wiki.matronics.com [5] http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:22:40 AM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: Fwd: Re: Europa-List: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground Roland, I had endless problems with overheating with my 914/XS. Going to LAA Rally was a nightmare, because sitting in a queue to take off always led to overheating, needing me to pull out of the queue and shut down. I then had a Woodcomp SR2000 which is a low twist prop, very much like a Warp Drive one or pretty much any prop you see on a Rotax 91X. The problem is that at idling speeds the central part of the prop is in Beta mode, effectively diverting air from the cooling inlets. When I switched to a Woodcomp SR3000W the problem was abolished completely, quite apart from gaining an appreciable amount of performance (equivalent to an extra 7 horse power). I can now sit in a queue all day if needs be! I tried to attach the paper documenting a detailed comparison of performance with the two props, which appeared in the Europa mag some years back, but the list rejected it. However if you google, 'Does Propeller Twist matter' it comes up top of the options Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On 2016-07-28 11:22, Roland wrote: > > Hello, > > I have the conventional XS cowling with the 914 and overheating might occur on the ground in high OAT's (25-30C). I've shut down the engine once when reaching 118C and then I could hear the 50/50 antifreeze boiling lightly. Does anyone know roughly the temperature gap between the CHT/CT (I only have a CHT gauge)? > > I've read on another forum, that increasing to 2700RPM (and switch to a courser pitch?) brings down the temperature. I also have a water Thermostate installed, which I'll remove in a first step to lower the CHT-temperatures on the ground and increase the time until I have to shut down the engine (when reaching 115C CHT). With this measure I (hopefully) increase the oil temperature at the same time (oil cooler partly covered by Radiator) so that I can taxi and take off earlier, since I don't have to wait for the oil to warm. Same goes after landing regarding the cooling run for the Turbo, when the CHT is creeping up quickly. > > What are your experiences especially without water Thermostate on the ground in high temperatures / measures to avoid overheating? > > I want to start with simple things before modifying the cooling tunnel, because I "only" have issues on the ground and quite satisfying setup for flying. Also modifications often end in a never ending story and often the only practical solution might be the best compromise... > > The cooling of the XS is only sufficient for English summers I'm afraid :-) > > Roland > PH-ZTI > XS TG 914 > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458822#458822 [1] > Links: ------ [1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458822#458822 [2] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [3] http://forums.matronics.com [4] http://wiki.matronics.com [5] http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:04 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Fwd: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground From: "rampil" I believe the consensus on this forum and from hanging out with Europanauts for many years has been that the 914 requires modification of the cowl and baffling to reduce the prevalent overheating issues at low airspeed and high OAT. I believe Bud Yerly has extensive experience with these modifications. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458827#458827 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:13 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Fwd: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground From: "Roland" Hi David and Ira, I guess you are both right, but achieved cooling-improvement on different ways. David, I well remember our chat on the Europa AGM last year but have to admit, that I thought of something cheaper than a new Propeller. I even would consider this, when it would be "only" the money provided it's a reliable solution. But since my Europa is on the Dutch Register, I'd expect considerable paperwork with the authorities going along with additional costs. However additional performance is also tempting :-) Ira, yes - Bud Yerly has huge knowledge of the Europa cooling modifications and I know his comprehensive article. Since I can't do much myself and cannot bring my Europa to his shop, I have to stick to more or less easy solutions like removing the Thermostate first. I have already modified the airflow in the tunnel with an aluminum sheet to force more air through the Radiator and the result is quite good when airborn in all kind of OATs even in extensive climbs at MTOM. On the other hand I know of conventional installations (XS-cowling and 914) like the one of Tim Weert from Holland, who seems to have no cooling issues. The cooling-problem in my Europa is either not dramatic, since I can run the engine for >10 minutes from start up until take off in 28C (and that is with a coolant Thermostate which pushes the temperatures quick to 85C). It's rather the situations like sitting behind a queue at the holding position - like David described it - when it becomes uncomfortable with one eye always on the CHT-gauge. At the AERO fare in Friedrichshafen I positioned my Europa 3 meters behind a Cirrus SR 22 to Keep the CHT at 115C. I'll remove the Thermostate first.... Anyway thanks for your advice! Regards Roland PH-ZTI XS TG 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458828#458828 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:56 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Rain passing through fuel cap From: "Rick Moss" Hi all, After a couple of days parked outside in fairly rainy conditions, a check of the useless water drains proved negative, however after the following flight I got 2/3rds of a sample tube full of water from the gascolator (and still nothing from the water drains). Next flight was 2 hrs from Le Touquet to Barton; gascolator yielded a clear sample.... of 100% water.... and then a further 2/3rds water sample. I'm impressed with the capacity of the Andair gascolator! So; my fuel cap clearly lets water into the tank. There doesn't appear to be a rubber seal of any sort, and I've adjusted the backnut to ensure it fastens tightly, but there must be a better solution? Any suggestions gratefully received! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458830#458830 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:58:06 AM PST US From: Trevor Pond Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwd: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground Hi Neville Eyre's cowling a make the engine run a lot cooler on the ground. Give him a ring and I'm sure he will be pleased to discuss. When OAT is high I always taxi my 914 Eoropa with coarse pitch set - it certainly helps. Regards Trev G-LINN Sent from my iPhone > On 28 Jul 2016, at 15:18, Roland wrote: > > > Hi David and Ira, > > I guess you are both right, but achieved cooling-improvement on different ways. > > David, I well remember our chat on the Europa AGM last year but have to admit, that I thought of something cheaper than a new Propeller. I even would consider this, when it would be "only" the money provided it's a reliable solution. But since my Europa is on the Dutch Register, I'd expect considerable paperwork with the authorities going along with additional costs. However additional performance is also tempting :-) > > Ira, yes - Bud Yerly has huge knowledge of the Europa cooling modifications and I know his comprehensive article. Since I can't do much myself and cannot bring my Europa to his shop, I have to stick to more or less easy solutions like removing the Thermostate first. > > I have already modified the airflow in the tunnel with an aluminum sheet to force more air through the Radiator and the result is quite good when airborn in all kind of OATs even in extensive climbs at MTOM. On the other hand I know of conventional installations (XS-cowling and 914) like the one of Tim Weert from Holland, who seems to have no cooling issues. The cooling-problem in my Europa is either not dramatic, since I can run the engine for >10 minutes from start up until take off in 28C (and that is with a coolant Thermostate which pushes the temperatures quick to 85C). It's rather the situations like sitting behind a queue at the holding position - like David described it - when it becomes uncomfortable with one eye always on the CHT-gauge. At the AERO fare in Friedrichshafen I positioned my Europa 3 meters behind a Cirrus SR 22 to Keep the CHT at 115C. > > I'll remove the Thermostate first.... > > Anyway thanks for your advice! > > Regards > Roland > PH-ZTI > XS TG 914 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458828#458828 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rain passing through fuel cap From: david park There is a rubber sealing ring on my cap. A Mono is tail down when you check for water in drains so there is no access to the water when checking. After flight with tail up it finds the water hence Gascolator. Dave Dave Park > On 28 Jul 2016, at 17:49, Rick Moss wrote: > > > Hi all, > > After a couple of days parked outside in fairly rainy conditions, a check of the useless water drains proved negative, however after the following flight I got 2/3rds of a sample tube full of water from the gascolator (and still nothing from the water drains). Next flight was 2 hrs from Le Touquet to Barton; gascolator yielded a clear sample.... of 100% water.... and then a further 2/3rds water sample. I'm impressed with the capacity of the Andair gascolator! > > So; my fuel cap clearly lets water into the tank. There doesn't appear to be a rubber seal of any sort, and I've adjusted the backnut to ensure it fastens tightly, but there must be a better solution? Any suggestions gratefully received! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458830#458830 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:28 AM PST US From: Kevin Challis Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rain passing through fuel cap A circle of sign vinyl over the cap when left outside. Not very fancy but it works. It does leave some sticky residue but a little fuel on a cloth cleans it up. I keep a few in my flight bag. Kevin Challis G ODJG > On 28 Jul 2016, at 18:49, Rick Moss wrote: > > > Hi all, > > After a couple of days parked outside in fairly rainy conditions, a check of the useless water drains proved negative, however after the following flight I got 2/3rds of a sample tube full of water from the gascolator (and still nothing from the water drains). Next flight was 2 hrs from Le Touquet to Barton; gascolator yielded a clear sample.... of 100% water.... and then a further 2/3rds water sample. I'm impressed with the capacity of the Andair gascolator! > > So; my fuel cap clearly lets water into the tank. There doesn't appear to be a rubber seal of any sort, and I've adjusted the backnut to ensure it fastens tightly, but there must be a better solution? Any suggestions gratefully received! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458830#458830 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:31 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rain passing through fuel cap From: david park Europa do a cover that covers to rear of filler Dave Dave Park > On 28 Jul 2016, at 19:36, Kevin Challis wrote: > > > A circle of sign vinyl over the cap when left outside. Not very fancy but it works. It does leave some sticky residue but a little fuel on a cloth cleans it up. I keep a few in my flight bag. > > Kevin Challis > G ODJG > > > >> On 28 Jul 2016, at 18:49, Rick Moss wrote: >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> After a couple of days parked outside in fairly rainy conditions, a check of the useless water drains proved negative, however after the following flight I got 2/3rds of a sample tube full of water from the gascolator (and still nothing from the water drains). Next flight was 2 hrs from Le Touquet to Barton; gascolator yielded a clear sample.... of 100% water.... and then a further 2/3rds water sample. I'm impressed with the capacity of the Andair gascolator! >> >> So; my fuel cap clearly lets water into the tank. There doesn't appear to be a rubber seal of any sort, and I've adjusted the backnut to ensure it fastens tightly, but there must be a better solution? Any suggestions gratefully received! >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458830#458830 > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:39 PM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rain passing through fuel cap Hi!all, I have had a similar experience with water in the fuel tank especially when parked outside in continuous rain. My investigations discovered a discrepancy between differing cap diameters and filler necks. I recommend checks be carried out on your pairs. AS an added precaution I apply electricians tape over the entire cap and have had no incidents since. The water drain pick up pipe end needs to be at the rear edges of the fuel tank for monowheel tanks ( unless you do a water check with the tail held high . Or the front edges of the tank for a trike standing on level ground.) I too have been very impressed with the Andair mini gascolators and have one on each tank outlet. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of david park Sent: 28 July 2016 18:30 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rain passing through fuel cap There is a rubber sealing ring on my cap. A Mono is tail down when you check for water in drains so there is no access to the water when checking. After flight with tail up it finds the water hence Gascolator. Dave Dave Park > On 28 Jul 2016, at 17:49, Rick Moss wrote: > > > Hi all, > > After a couple of days parked outside in fairly rainy conditions, a check of the useless water drains proved negative, however after the following flight I got 2/3rds of a sample tube full of water from the gascolator (and still nothing from the water drains). Next flight was 2 hrs from Le Touquet to Barton; gascolator yielded a clear sample.... of 100% water.... and then a further 2/3rds water sample. I'm impressed with the capacity of the Andair gascolator! > > So; my fuel cap clearly lets water into the tank. There doesn't appear to be a rubber seal of any sort, and I've adjusted the backnut to ensure it fastens tightly, but there must be a better solution? Any suggestions gratefully received! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458830#458830 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:47 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Rain passing through fuel cap From: "Rick Moss" All good info, thanks. I was debating covering the opening with cling film, and then applying a bead of high modulus sikaflex around the mating faces of the tank cap, then loosely fitting it in position before it sets. Theory being that it will make a fuel proof rubber seal that will remain on the cap and not adhere to the airframe as it sets. I'm slightly concerned about the risk of sikaflex'ing my fuel cap in though... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458844#458844 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:29 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Fwd: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground From: "zwakie" Hi Roland, Roland wrote: > ...that I thought of something cheaper than a new propeller. I even would consider this, when it would be "only" the money provided it's a reliable solution. But since my Europa is on the Dutch register, I'd expect considerable paperwork with the authorities going along with additional costs. This might be easier than you might think: if I remember correctly, PH-DIY has this engine/prop combination (2-blade version I think). Roland wrote: > ...I have to stick to more or less easy solutions like removing the thermostate first. How is removing the water thermostat going to help? With CT temps over 85C it's wide open, isn't it? With CHT's way up high, it is fair to assume that CT temps are well above 85C. I would not expect you're getting more coolant to flow by removing the thermostat and don't see how this is going to help you to bring the CHT's down... One option you could consider, but only worthwhile looking at if you your oil-temps are 'well below' red-line: an oil-water heat exchanger. This would allow you to use the excess cooling capacity of your oil radiator to bring down CHT indirectly (additional benefit of this approach a.o. is your oil temp will be above 50C quicker after startup) -------- Marcel Zwakenberg XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458847#458847 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.