Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:42 AM - LiFeO4 batteries? (Clive Sutton)
2. 01:10 AM - 8.33khz and the Netherlands (Bob Hitchcock)
3. 01:11 AM - Re: LiFeO4 batteries? (Peter Jeffers)
4. 02:08 AM - Re: LiFeO4 batteries? (Roger Sheridan)
5. 02:15 AM - Re: LiFeO4 batteries? (David Watts)
6. 02:27 AM - Re: 8.33khz and the Netherlands (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
7. 03:00 AM - Europa Classic oil pipe replacement (GBWFH2010)
8. 03:52 AM - Fw: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground (Remi Guerner)
9. 04:45 AM - Re: Fw: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground (dpy01)
10. 05:28 AM - Re: Fw: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
11. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: Rain passing through fuel cap (Robert Borger)
12. 01:04 PM - Fw: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground (Roland)
13. 03:00 PM - Trip report Versailles St Cyr L ecole (graeme bird)
Message 1
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| Subject: | LiFeO4 batteries? |
I need to replace my PC680 AGM battery. The weight advantage of choosing one of
the new generation Lithium iron phosphate batteries is stunning (several kg).
The weight-saving comes at a price premium of course.
Does any Europa owner have one of these LiFeo4 batteries in service and in particular:
1) What is the typical life of these batteries (experience data preferred over
product information)?
2) What UK supplier did you use?
3) If you have a Rotax 912S, which battery did you choose?
4) As a result of the weight save, did you have to relocate the battery to preserve
W&B, and if so where did you site it?
5) Do the LAA care about the fitment of these batteries/any permit complications?
All comment appreciated
Clive
G-YETI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458899#458899
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| Subject: | 8.33khz and the Netherlands |
De Kooy
............Why, do you require to talk to them when flying direct then?........
:;:
Hi Marcel
For me having the ability to talk to De Kooy is an important
It all about the risk balance, which is personal to each pilot. And the legal requirements.
The journey for me is 160 nautical miles over water. My current radio is low power
by today's standards and ready for upgrade. Experience of flying this direct
track previously tells me I go out of radio contact with stations for twenty
minutes due to radio transmission height/range/power/weather.
(1) I would like to have the option, to be able to talk directly to the nearest
rescue station if I were in difficulty. The De Kooy military station had a high
quality powerful radio that is a reliable contact.
(2) De Kooy also had good radar coverage to identify me should I have a distress
situation.
(3) Finally the weather often changes dramatically as you approach the Dutch coast.
It was good to have De Kooy as the diversion option. It had plenty of kit
to get you down.
When I get the subsidised 8:33 upgrade will I gain extra power as well as the ability
to contact all ATSU again, including De Kooy.
Of course it's all a matter of opinion. Different pilots would reach different
conclusions. Read the David Joyce (Mono XS) article on ditching in the sea.
Really good read on minimising risk and maximising chances of survival.
Regards
Bob Hitchcock
Europa XS Mono
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| Subject: | LiFeO4 batteries? |
Hi Clive,
Answer to item 5 is that the LAA do care a lot. You may recall issues with
Li/Fe batteries in the Boeing Dreamliner.
You also need to be aware that your current regulator on the Rotax engine is
not designed for charging Li/Fe batteries. I believe you will need some
added electronics to control this side of things.
Yes they are very light weight with superb performance but there are
additional problems and an enormous price tag for the moment at least.
You will probably require a Mod approval from the LAA.
Pete Jeffers LAA rep to the Europa Club
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clive Sutton
Sent: 30 July 2016 08:42
Subject: Europa-List: LiFeO4 batteries?
--> <clive.maf@googlemail.com>
I need to replace my PC680 AGM battery. The weight advantage of choosing
one of the new generation Lithium iron phosphate batteries is stunning
(several kg). The weight-saving comes at a price premium of course.
Does any Europa owner have one of these LiFeo4 batteries in service and in
particular:
1) What is the typical life of these batteries (experience data preferred
over product information)?
2) What UK supplier did you use?
3) If you have a Rotax 912S, which battery did you choose?
4) As a result of the weight save, did you have to relocate the battery to
preserve W&B, and if so where did you site it?
5) Do the LAA care about the fitment of these batteries/any permit
complications?
All comment appreciated
Clive
G-YETI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458899#458899
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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| Subject: | Re: LiFeO4 batteries? |
Here is current LAA policy:
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Standard%20Mods/SM14
337%20Lithium%20batteries.pdf
<http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Standard%20Mods/SM1
4337%20Lithium%20batteries.pdf>
According to Andy Draper:
> SM14337 LiFePO4 Batteries
> An aircraft with one of the EarthX Hundred series batteries (the
largest available capacity) is currently on flight test and, all being
well with it, this should allow all of the Hundred series batteries to
be added to the Standard Mod. It=99s probably best to wait for
this to be completed rather than to submit a mod application of your
own,
Cheers,
Roger
> On 30 Jul 2016, at 09:42, Clive Sutton <clive.maf@googlemail.com>
wrote:
>
<clive.maf@googlemail.com>
>
> I need to replace my PC680 AGM battery. The weight advantage of
choosing one of the new generation Lithium iron phosphate batteries is
stunning (several kg). The weight-saving comes at a price premium of
course.
>
> Does any Europa owner have one of these LiFeo4 batteries in service
and in particular:
>
> 1) What is the typical life of these batteries (experience data
preferred over product information)?
> 2) What UK supplier did you use?
> 3) If you have a Rotax 912S, which battery did you choose?
> 4) As a result of the weight save, did you have to relocate the
battery to preserve W&B, and if so where did you site it?
> 5) Do the LAA care about the fitment of these batteries/any permit
complications?
>
> All comment appreciated
>
>
> Clive
> G-YETI
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458899#458899
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: LiFeO4 batteries? |
Clive,
The LAA have now accepted some LiFe batteries and they can be fitted as a standard
mod only needing the approval of your inspector.
If you check on the LAA Engineering website, there is a Standard Modification SM14337
which has all the information you need.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY Classic Monowheel
> On 30 Jul 2016, at 09:11, Peter Jeffers <pjeffers@talktalk.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Clive,
> Answer to item 5 is that the LAA do care a lot. You may recall issues with
> Li/Fe batteries in the Boeing Dreamliner.
> You also need to be aware that your current regulator on the Rotax engine is
> not designed for charging Li/Fe batteries. I believe you will need some
> added electronics to control this side of things.
> Yes they are very light weight with superb performance but there are
> additional problems and an enormous price tag for the moment at least.
> You will probably require a Mod approval from the LAA.
>
>
> Pete Jeffers LAA rep to the Europa Club
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clive Sutton
> Sent: 30 July 2016 08:42
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: LiFeO4 batteries?
>
> --> <clive.maf@googlemail.com>
>
> I need to replace my PC680 AGM battery. The weight advantage of choosing
> one of the new generation Lithium iron phosphate batteries is stunning
> (several kg). The weight-saving comes at a price premium of course.
>
> Does any Europa owner have one of these LiFeo4 batteries in service and in
> particular:
>
> 1) What is the typical life of these batteries (experience data preferred
> over product information)?
> 2) What UK supplier did you use?
> 3) If you have a Rotax 912S, which battery did you choose?
> 4) As a result of the weight save, did you have to relocate the battery to
> preserve W&B, and if so where did you site it?
> 5) Do the LAA care about the fitment of these batteries/any permit
> complications?
>
> All comment appreciated
>
>
> Clive
> G-YETI
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458899#458899
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: 8.33khz and the Netherlands |
Bob, Thanks for the plug! Pity there are no royalties! The article, by
the way is in the Flight Safety section on the club website.
Whilst I see where you are coming from, I personally don't feel any need
to actually talk to de Kooy in those circumstances. Simply listening in
on frequency does it for me. If things do go pear shaped you are all set
to send out your SOS, and it is unlikely they are going to get twitchy
about 8.33 mhz in such circumstances. I take a similar approach to
flying close to controlled sirspace in UK. For instance going round
London I prefer not to talk to Farnborough, who are usually grossly
overworked and really struggle to give any reliable service. Instead I
listen in and dial up the appropriate listening squawk. The
multiplication of listening squawks suggests that large ATC units would
prefer not to be actually talking to the average GA plane!
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2016-07-30 09:10, Bob Hitchcock wrote:
>
> De Kooy
> ............Why, do you require to talk to them when flying direct then?........
> :;:
> Hi Marcel
>
> For me having the ability to talk to De Kooy is an important
>
> It all about the risk balance, which is personal to each pilot. And the legal
requirements.
>
> The journey for me is 160 nautical miles over water. My current radio is low
power by today's standards and ready for upgrade. Experience of flying this direct
track previously tells me I go out of radio contact with stations for twenty
minutes due to radio transmission height/range/power/weather.
>
> (1) I would like to have the option, to be able to talk directly to the nearest
rescue station if I were in difficulty. The De Kooy military station had a
high quality powerful radio that is a reliable contact.
> (2) De Kooy also had good radar coverage to identify me should I have a distress
situation.
> (3) Finally the weather often changes dramatically as you approach the Dutch
coast. It was good to have De Kooy as the diversion option. It had plenty of kit
to get you down.
>
> When I get the subsidised 8:33 upgrade will I gain extra power as well as the
ability to contact all ATSU again, including De Kooy.
>
> Of course it's all a matter of opinion. Different pilots would reach different
conclusions. Read the David Joyce (Mono XS) article on ditching in the sea.
Really good read on minimising risk and maximising chances of survival.
>
> Regards
>
> Bob Hitchcock
>
> Europa XS Mono
>
Links:
------
[1] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
[2] http://forums.matronics.com
[3] http://wiki.matronics.com
[4] http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Europa Classic oil pipe replacement |
I am about to embark on replacing all the oil pipes on my Classic TriGear 912 UL
(80HP). I would be very interested to hear if anyone has any tips on doing
this job and in particular if there any pitfalls waiting to bite me.
Thanks.
--------
Gordon Grant
G-BWFH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458907#458907
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground |
Hi David,
I agree 100% with you about the effect of high twist blades on ground cooling and
the possible improvement of the cruise performances, but I am puzzled by your
figures.
Your figures for the Woodcomp low twist prop suggest these blades are very far
from being suitable for this engine (914) as they need to be set at an incredibly
high angle to transmit the power. It is very likely that the blades are fully
stalled during the early take off phase, therefore reducing the take off performance.
It is even possible that they are partially stalled (at the tip) at
cruise.
My point is: if you start from a very bad prop, almost any other prop you try
will show a significant performance improvement. It would be very interested to
find out how the performances of your Woodcomp high twist prop compare with
those of the Airmaster/Warp Drive.
Remi
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458908#458908
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground |
Has anyone experimented with putting an electric driven fan on the radiators i.e.
a computer cooling fan?
The Skyarrow has one fitted for use during taxi etc to aid cooling and it is then
switched off before takeoff.
Alan
GOBJT
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground |
Remi, I agree that it would be great to have definitive trials of the
whole range of props. Europa at one stage promised this but never came
up with the goods. I would be very surprised if the Sr 2000 is a 'bad
prop'. I first became interested in it when I saw Tom Justic's
914/SR2000 /XS take off together with th company 914/Airmaster/XS at
Benezov during the 2000 Prague Fly out. Tom's plane climbed at an angle
that looked to be 10 degrees steeper, whilst keeping up in a horizontal
sense. During the years I flew one I never had problems keeping up with
rivals. The tip angles were adjusted in both cases to give a max static
of 5650 rpm.
Regards, David
On 2016-07-30 11:51, Remi Guerner wrote:
>
> Hi David,
> I agree 100% with you about the effect of high twist blades on ground cooling
and the possible improvement of the cruise performances, but I am puzzled by
your figures.
> Your figures for the Woodcomp low twist prop suggest these blades are very far
from being suitable for this engine (914) as they need to be set at an incredibly
high angle to transmit the power. It is very likely that the blades are
fully stalled during the early take off phase, therefore reducing the take off
performance. It is even possible that they are partially stalled (at the tip)
at cruise.
> My point is: if you start from a very bad prop, almost any other prop you try
will show a significant performance improvement. It would be very interested
to find out how the performances of your Woodcomp high twist prop compare with
those of the Airmaster/Warp Drive.
> Remi
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458908#458908 [1]
>
Links:
------
[1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458908#458908
[2] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
[3] http://forums.matronics.com
[4] http://wiki.matronics.com
[5] http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Re: Rain passing through fuel cap |
Alan,
Back in 2014 Bud Yerly had a batch of older style fuel caps made up because Europa
no longer stocked caps for aircraft built prior to 2003. I dont know if Bud
had any extra caps made up for stock. You can call/write hime to find out.
Ill include the text of Buds e-mail:
----------------------------------------
On Aug 19, 2014, at 6:19 PM, "Bud Yerly"
wrote:
To all owners and operators.
I received a call from a client who inadvertently misplaced his gas cap. His kit
is a about a 2001 XS and Europa-Aircraft (2004) does not have stock on these
older caps. Come to find out, the caps changed in or about 2003. All caps
on newer XS kits have a smaller cap and ring (65mmOD).
What to check.
If you have a fuel cap supplied with your kit made by SPRL that measures 70 mm
OD on the gray cap, these caps are no longer in production and the new 65 mm caps
do not fit properly. Aircraft Spruce and Wicks do not have any old style
caps in inventory.
Classic caps and the newer XS kits are available but the cap and flange have to
be bought at an average price of about $60-$70. On the older pre 2004 kits if
you have the 70 mm cap and you wish to upgrade to the newer style, you will
have to cut the fuel ring out and replace. Not fun especially since the diameters
are different.
Please review the pdf document attached for details on the differences.
I am putting together a special order for my Custom Flight Clients for the older
70 mm caps through Newton SPRL. The price is reasonable and less then current
retail. I highly recommend that older XS kit owners purchase a spare in the
unlikely event your cap may disappear. We are not supplying the key lock.
This is a one time shot as it is coming out of my pocket for the R&D. I cannot
expect the current Europa Company to support these pre 2004 kit fuel caps as
it is not economically viable to do so.
However, determined owners like myself will attempt to make a special order through
the manufacturer happen to keep my clients happy and supplied. You are all
welcome to piggy back on my efforts and research.
Email or call in your order to me direct, not through the Matronics site please
so as not to clutter up the site.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
personal email: budyerly(at)msn.com,
Mobile Phone: 813-244-8354
----------------------------------------
I hope this helps.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Jul 30, 2016, at 1:35 AM, Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.ukwrote:
--Europa-List message posted by: Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk>
Was the design for the fuel cap changed slightly so that the new ones do not seal
correctly in an old fitting? I think I remember a post on that some time ago.
Can you get replacement o-rings from eBay or Amazon instead of replacing the whole
cap?
Alan
GOBJT
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Cooling issues XS 914 on the ground |
Hello Marcel, all,
yes - I'm fighting symptoms and of course I know, that it would be better to rather
fix the source of the problems thoroughly instead, which obviously is, what
Frans did (Frans - thanks a lot for your far-reaching explanations, your offer
to have a look and btw good to know you're well off :-).
I've learned, that most live with the cooling shortcomings of the Europa somehow
or investigated and found their own ways to cure it (like David Joyce, who left
it all like it is and changed to another propeller). At least I've read about
and also saw many interesting solutions. Bud Yerly in Florida did something
different than Frans who did it different than Neville Eyre.....
What I forgot to tell you, but what is most important for the whole discussion:
I didn't build my Europa but bought it second hand. Those who found the best
solutions are also builders or even worked at Europa Aircraft or have a shop,
like Bud. What Frans and Ilona achieved or Bud Yerly does for his customers is
way beyond my skills.
So I came to the conclusion, that I have to buy a Woodcomp, SR 3000 W, which seems to be an adequate fix for the cooling problem and adds a tad to the performance as well (since I want to keep the rest of the setup as it is, like David did, I'd also chose the 3-bladed and not the 2-bladed for that reason) or I make a flap in front of the cooler, like a friend in Belgium did it at his XS Mono 912S. Another option might be the new Whirlwind blades with a wider chord in the Airmaster hup http://www.airmasterpropellers.com/products/productdescription/type/view/id/67/ww-r64w, but I don't know yet if this is sufficient, since they are comparatively new. Obviously this would be much cheaper than a new Woodcomp with Controller.
At least my "only" cooling problem is SOLELY ON THE GROUND and in a couple of years,
even though running the engine with a thermostat I never actually had to
shut down the engine due to overheating. So I have to focus on that problem during
ground operation.
Anyway thanks again to all for your input - much appreciated!!
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458929#458929
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| Subject: | Trip report Versailles St Cyr L ecole |
See link with PICs if interested. Ive been wanting to get there for ages. The BBC
series just tipped me over to visit the Palace of the Sun King.
http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=101065
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 200 hours 4 years on the Mono
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458930#458930
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