Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:09 AM - Re: MGL XTreme EFIS & EMS. Does anyone have experience? (carlp101)
2. 12:15 AM - Re: Avionics sud-panel material (carlp101)
3. 02:39 AM - Re: MGL XTreme EFIS & EMS. Does anyone have experience? (G-ODTW)
4. 03:02 AM - Re: MGL XTreme EFIS & EMS. Does anyone have experience? (carlp101)
5. 04:05 AM - Re: Re: EUROPA XS GAS STRUTS (Graham Hall)
6. 09:20 AM - Re: Aluminium spec (flyingphil2)
7. 09:29 AM - Re: Aluminium spec (carlp101)
8. 09:32 AM - Re: EUROPA XS GAS STRUTS (carlp101)
9. 10:05 AM - Beringer wheel installation on mono (JohnFrance)
10. 10:35 AM - Re: Beringer wheel installation on mono (NEEL Jean Philippe)
11. 10:37 AM - Finishing/ painting touchup? (JonSmith)
12. 10:47 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 02/02/17 (Donald Ingram)
13. 11:12 AM - Re: Painting (h&jeuropa)
14. 12:23 PM - Re: Trips 2017 UK/Europe (Roland)
15. 12:27 PM - Re: Finishing/ painting touchup? (Karl Heindl)
16. 12:47 PM - Re: Re: Painting (William Daniell)
17. 01:44 PM - Re: Trips 2017 UK/Europe (carlp101)
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| Subject: | Re: MGL XTreme EFIS & EMS. Does anyone have experience? |
Hi David,
I initially fitted an MGL EFIS to my Europa, but it was so RF noisy I had to return
it and switch to the Dynon SkyView. I'm VERY please with the Dynon. It's
silent!
Regards
Carl
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics sud-panel material |
I used 2 mm aluminium. It's readily available, workable and does the job well.
Regards
Carl
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| Subject: | Re: MGL XTreme EFIS & EMS. Does anyone have experience? |
Thanks Carl,
I am assured that a software update moved the emissions out of the aircraft band,
and that this problem is now history. But I will be keeping a wary eye on it.
Dave
--------
David Walters
01474 816817
dave@robotas.com
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| Subject: | Re: MGL XTreme EFIS & EMS. Does anyone have experience? |
I hope you're right Dave, but I got all sorts of excuses from MGL that just didn't
apply to a composite aircraft like the Europa. I'm also not impressed that
the reason given for the software change they made as a direct result of the
problems I had was said to be down to "compromised installations". To prove it
was nothing to do with the aircraft or my installation I set-up the EFIS and
my Fluke 8.33 radio + antenna at home on 12 volt car battery. As soon as I turned
on the EFIS you could hear the noise. I was unable to squelch it our on some
channels.
Anyway. I hope they've solved it, but I'd check before you spend the time and money
fit it to your plane.
Good luck.
Carl
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| Subject: | Re: EUROPA XS GAS STRUTS |
Why not buy new ones from sgs-engineering.com . You have to buy a pair at
about 15 gbp each. Very good service from company and fit perfectly.
Regards
Graham
On 2 Feb 2017 23:36, "carlp101" <cparkinson@cisc-uk.com> wrote:
Hi Bill,
I called IGS and sent them the details of my struts. They came back and
said they could not re-gas them because they were custom struts made for
Europa. They said I had to contact them. Have you had yours returned yet?
Are they OK? Do you have a contact at IGS I could speak to?
Many thanks
Carl
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminium spec |
Thanks Carl. Nice panel by the way!
Phil
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminium spec |
Thanks Phil
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| Subject: | Re: EUROPA XS GAS STRUTS |
That sounds like to easiest solution, Graham. Do you know the product code for
the correct struts? If I ask for the ones with the same code as my current ones
I think they'll just direct me back to Europa again.
Thanks
Carl
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| Subject: | Beringer wheel installation on mono |
Hello,
I have just taken possession of Beringer wheel and braking system which came with
a big fat 8" tyre that is 185 mm wide rather than the Condor 7" on my present
wheel. I am hoping that will go through the hole in the arm with some space
to spare! (I don't have access to the bits right now to measure)
My main reason, however for posting is to ask others who have already fitted a
Beringer system how they went about the installation, where they passed the brake
lines and situated the pressure regulator etc.
Some photos would be very useful as well if that's possible!
Regards
John
--------
Europa mono Nr 192
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| Subject: | Re: Beringer wheel installation on mono |
John,=C2-tu peux prendre contact avec Klaus Dietrich qui a r=C3=A9alis=C3
=A9 ce montage sur son Europa. Il a un dossier bien fait qui devrait t'aide
r.A bient=C3=B4tJP
Le Vendredi 3 f=C3=A9vrier 2017 19h24, JohnFrance <77alembert@gmail.com
> a =C3=A9crit :
Hello,
I have just taken possession of Beringer wheel and braking system which cam
e with a big fat 8" tyre that is 185 mm wide rather than the Condor 7" on m
y present wheel. I am hoping that will go through the hole in the arm with
some space to spare! (I don't have access to the bits right now to measure)
My main reason, however for posting is to ask others who have already fitte
d a Beringer system how they went about the installation, where they passed
the brake lines and situated the pressure regulator etc.
Some photos would be very useful as well if that's possible!
Regards
John
--------
Europa mono Nr 192
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465712#465712
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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| Subject: | Finishing/ painting touchup? |
As a winter job I'd like to improve a few small surface areas on my classic that
have needed filling, for example the area surrounding the new XS fuel filler
cap when I installed the extended baggage bay mod and the area where I subsequently
removed and covered in the old classic fuel filler cap etc. Plus the odd
ding or two encountered in the finish over the years.
In each case I've completed the layups where required, did a rough and ready fill
and sand with expancel then covered the areas temporarily with white self adhesive
vinyl to get flying again asap! Now some years later I'd like to remove
be the vinyl and make good the paint!
My question is - for the small jobs needed it's absolutely not worth the time,
effort and cost of going to a professional painter - I'd like to do it at home
in my garage. My machine although reasonable will never win awards for appearances
without a complete makeover. Therefore can anyone recommend any home-use
products such as aerosols or hand applied products that I can use for all the
finishing stages to make good my patches? Also any useful techniques would
be appreciated.
As I mentioned I've done the first fill with epoxy/expancel and nothing else yet.
The final colour I believe is Ford Diamond White! Is an aerosol from Halfords
any good for this purpose? I was thinking about UV protection requirements -
does that matter for small patches?
Cheers, Jon
--------
G-TERN
Classic Mono
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 02/02/17 |
This is probably mentioned somewhere, but I missed it. Has anyone done a s
tudy of the Europa XS Mono glide ratio? I would be interested in the glide
ratio with a feathered prop and a non-feathered prop.
I would like to make a 50-mile crossing of Lake Michigan. And survive.
Donald Ingram
A204
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list@matronics.co
m>
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 8:03:43 AM
Subject: Europa-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 02/02/17
*
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Total Messages Posted Thu 02/02/17: 7
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:46 AM - Painting (William Daniell)
2. 06:16 AM - Re: Painting (rampil)
3. 07:05 AM - Aluminium spec (flyingphil2)
4. 12:36 PM - Re: Painting (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
5. 03:24 PM - Re: Dynon Pitot/AOA (carlp101)
6. 03:33 PM - Re: EUROPA XS GAS STRUTS (carlp101)
7. 03:43 PM - Re: Trips 2017 UK/Europe (carlp101)
________________________________ Message 1 ______________________________
_______
Time: 03:46:53 AM PST US
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Painting
Finally after 12 years ....HJ460 is now in its hangar awaiting paint. We
fired up the engine and the dynon and much to my surprise everthing works
I realize that this is not over and I have merely completed phase 1.
HJ460 is a "fast build" (hahahaha) with gel coat over wings and fuselage
and the cloth flying surfaces are filled and sanded. She has the minor
dings and epoxy drips from 12 years of constructions.
PAINTING the plan suggested by the Colombian painter is
- sand gel coat with fine paper
- fill all visible dings with micro
- apply epoxy primer
- sand
- fill with polyester filler
- re primer
- paint (white) with aircraft paint.
- Lacquer on top
Any input gratefully received. Does this sound like a plan? Is polyester
car filler appropriate?
Many thanks
WIll
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
________________________________ Message 2 ______________________________
_______
Time: 06:16:35 AM PST US
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Painting
From: "rampil" <ira.rampil@gmail.com>
I would not mix chemistries. Use expo micro, not polyester for filling.
When you say aircraft paint, you realize that there are dozens of different
kinds of aircraft paint, some suitable for fabric, some for metal and compo
site.
I recommend Dupont Imron with Clearcoat finish. This is my choice as it is
extremely hard and scratch resistant. It is expensive and is (cyanide) toxi
c. Have
a professional spray it for you. My 13 year old is still looking good.
--------
Ira N224XS
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________________________________ Message 3 ______________________________
_______
Time: 07:05:01 AM PST US
Subject: Europa-List: Aluminium spec
From: "flyingphil2" <flyingphil627-europastuff@yahoo.co.uk>
I'm sure this was discussed before but I can't find the posting.
Could someone advise what the material spec is for the aluminium used on th
e instrument
module sub panels (and also the flap brackets)?
Thanks,
Phil
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________________________________ Message 4 ______________________________
_______
Time: 12:36:22 PM PST US
From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Painting
William, If you use gel coat there is just a single layer to spray on
and then you wet & dry sand most of it off, going progressively through
400, 1200 and 2000 grit to produce the most superb and very durable
finirsh. You do not need any primer or UV barrier as gel coat includes
those.
Regards, David, GXSDJ
On 2017-02-02 11:45, William Daniell wrote:
> Finally after 12 years ....HJ460 is now in its hangar awaiting paint. We
fired
up the engine and the dynon and much to my surprise everthing works
>
> I realize that this is not over and I have merely completed phase 1.
>
> HJ460 is a "fast build" (hahahaha) with gel coat over wings and fuselage
and
the cloth flying surfaces are filled and sanded. She has the minor dings an
d epoxy
drips from 12 years of constructions.
>
> PAINTING the plan suggested by the Colombian painter is
>
> * sand gel coat with fine paper
> * fill all visible dings with micro
> * apply epoxy primer
> * sand
> * fill with polyester filler
> * re primer
> * paint (white) with aircraft paint.
> * Lacquer on top
>
> Any input gratefully received. Does this sound like a plan? Is polyester
car
filler appropriate? Many thanks
>
> WIll
>
> William Daniell LONGPORT
>
> +57 310 295 0744
________________________________ Message 5 ______________________________
_______
Time: 03:24:59 PM PST US
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Dynon Pitot/AOA
From: "carlp101" <cparkinson@cisc-uk.com>
Hi all,
I took delivery of my Dynon heated pitot/AOA probe today. I'm aiming to rep
lace
the existing pitot with this one. As Dynon says the tip of the probe can be
anywhere
from 2-12 inches from the leading edge, approx 6 inches below the wing
surface and half way along the wing, I think this location will be OK. I'll
measure
it tomorrow.
As I have a classic wing the next challenge will be fitting the probe and t
he wiring.
I'll give Andy Draper a call too to get his advice, but hopefully I can
use the existing mounting and modify the mounting tube I also got from Dyno
n.
I have just finished adding my cabin lighting (red dimable LED), so the hea
ted
pitot should be the final bit of kit I need before I'm ready to apply for t
he
removal of the VFR restriction. Wish me luck as I may be first-of-type.
All the best.
Carl
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________________________________ Message 6 ______________________________
_______
Time: 03:33:57 PM PST US
Subject: Europa-List: Re: EUROPA XS GAS STRUTS
From: "carlp101" <cparkinson@cisc-uk.com>
Hi Bill,
I called IGS and sent them the details of my struts. They came back and sai
d they
could not re-gas them because they were custom struts made for Europa. They
said I had to contact them. Have you had yours returned yet? Are they OK? D
o
you have a contact at IGS I could speak to?
Many thanks
Carl
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465663#465663
________________________________ Message 7 ______________________________
_______
Time: 03:43:15 PM PST US
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Trips 2017 UK/Europe
From: "carlp101" <cparkinson@cisc-uk.com>
Hi Roland,
I'm interested in this three day trip, but I've never flown in Europe. Do y
ou know
if anyone else from the UK has shown an interest in this event? I'd appreci
ate
tagging along with someone who has some experience (plus it would be more
fun).
Regards
Carl
G-URMS
Roland wrote:
> Hi David and all,
>
> after reply from Jens I'm pleased to let you know, that all Europa-pilots
are
very welcome at the OUV-summer meeting, which will take place at
>
> Bad Drkheim EDRF from 16th-18th June 2017
>
> Mogas is available at EDRF and no landing fees will be charged on arrival
.
>
> More details will follow (accomodation/camping, restaurants, daytrips....
).
>
> So please save the date by now! And David, please advertise also for the
club-members.
>
> Regards
> Roland
> PH-ZTI
> XS TG 914
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Will,
Your Europa build manual has a chapter (36) concerning finishing your airplane.
It states:
1. The molded parts (fuselage, wings, cowls etc) are ready to paint only requiring
a light sanding. We washed the parts with soap and warm water; then sanded
with 280-320 grit sandpaper to remove any shine. (Europa says 360 grit but
that wasnt available here).
2. The foam filled flying surfaces (flaps, ailerons, tailplanes and rudder) need
filled before painting. We washed them first as well.
The foam filled flying surfaces must be post cured for 8-10 hours at 40-50 deg
C. We used epoxy mixed with expancel (supplied with the kit) to fill the weave.
You want a pretty dry mixture (as much expancel as you can get into the epoxy
so it isnt shiny). Best results are if each batch is mixed in exactly the
same proportions because if you have to refill a spot and one batch was wetter,
it will be harder than the filler next to it which makes sanding evenly very
difficult. We mixed a set amount of epoxy and then measured the expancel (by
volume 1 part mixed epoxy to 10 parts expancel worked for us). We mixed some
plain epoxy and wiped a little on the weave with an old sock so that the dry
expancel mixture would adhere. Then let the expancel dry thoroughly. In damp,
cool Michigan, that could take days! Then sand to properly contour, refilling
& sanding as necessary.
We used expancel/epoxy to smooth and fill the joints where the fuselage halves
meet and the closeout panels on the top wing surfaces. Probably spread the filler
to an area 6-8 inches wide on either side of the seam to get a nice blended
surface.
There were a series of articles in Sport Aviation around 2005 that we used for guidance. The articles are available as a book from EAA, http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa-shop/media/aviation-books/2256137300000__how-to-paint-your-own-airplane
We followed the articles closely and used Poly Fibers products and instructions
for applying the products. We washed the parts with 310 Alkaline cleaner mixed
20:1 with water, rinsed thoroughly and used Prep Wipe. We then used UV Smooth
Prime on the entire airframe, both molded parts and foam filled parts to provide
UV protection for the fiberglass. It also gave a hard finish without pinholes.
This was followed by Epoxy Primer EP420 and finally Aerothane final finish.
We then color sanded. Probably the epoxy primer was not necessary.
We were advised not to use polyester automotive filler because it does not remain
flexible enough to handle the movement of composites. At that time (2005) we
were also advised not to use automotive paint for the same reason, but many
seem to have success with it. As Ira states, we saw his airplane when we were
at Custom flight Creations in December and it looks great!
There are as many opinions about painting as their are Europas! This is how we
did ours and we are happy with the results. Hopefully Bud Yerly will comment
as he has much more experience, especially using the products available today.
Jim & Heather
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| Subject: | Re: Trips 2017 UK/Europe |
Hi Carl,
great, that you are planning to come - of course you are (like all Europa pilots)
most welcome! I have got no confirmation of a UK-pilot yet and I noticed in
the new Europa-flyer, that the club AGM is fixed also on that weekend, so that
unfortunately some of the "usual subjects" will rather join the AGM I guess.
VFR flying in Germany is very straightforward because of its simple airspace structure.
I've flown to the UK from western Germany and I can say, that flying
in Belgium and France aren't difficult either. You are usually in contact with
Lille Info and Brussels Info anyway.
Let me know, if I can help you somehow.
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
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| Subject: | Re: Finishing/ painting touchup? |
Hi Jon,
It is easier to use an HVLP spray gun for all paint or primer jobs, if avai
lable, but
I have used aerosols for the speed kit and don't see any reason why it shou
ldn't be used on other parts. The importance of UV protection is overrated
in my opinion, unless your aircraft is parked all year round in a place lik
e Arizona. The best way to protect the fibreglass from UV is to use a dark
primer. I originally used an expensive 2-part epoxy primer and paint, but n
ow feel that a regular basecoat with a clear lacquer on top, just like on m
illions of cars, is adequate, and easy to repair.
Cars retain their finish for many many years.
Talking about cars, I have ordered a paint kit for mine, as I want to take
care of a rusty area. You can get these kits on ebay.co.uk, and they consis
t of 400 ml aerosol basecoat, mixed to any colour code,
plus 400 ml of clear lacquer, at very reasonable cost. Of course for your F
ord white Halfords should be good enough.
Karl
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of JonSmith <jonsmitheuropa@tiscali.co.uk>
Sent: 03 February 2017 18:36:21
Subject: Europa-List: Finishing/ painting touchup?
>
As a winter job I'd like to improve a few small surface areas on my classic
that have needed filling, for example the area surrounding the new XS fuel
filler cap when I installed the extended baggage bay mod and the area wher
e I subsequently removed and covered in the old classic fuel filler cap etc
. Plus the odd ding or two encountered in the finish over the years.
In each case I've completed the layups where required, did a rough and read
y fill and sand with expancel then covered the areas temporarily with white
self adhesive vinyl to get flying again asap! Now some years later I'd li
ke to remove be the vinyl and make good the paint!
My question is - for the small jobs needed it's absolutely not worth the ti
me, effort and cost of going to a professional painter - I'd like to do it
at home in my garage. My machine although reasonable will never win awards
for appearances without a complete makeover. Therefore can anyone recomme
nd any home-use products such as aerosols or hand applied products that I c
an use for all the finishing stages to make good my patches? Also any usef
ul techniques would be appreciated.
As I mentioned I've done the first fill with epoxy/expancel and nothing els
e yet.
The final colour I believe is Ford Diamond White! Is an aerosol from Halfo
rds any good for this purpose? I was thinking about UV protection requirem
ents - does that matter for small patches?
Cheers, Jon
--------
G-TERN
Classic Mono
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thanks very useful
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 2:12 PM, h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>
> Will,
> Your Europa build manual has a chapter (36) concerning finishing your
> airplane. It states:
> 1. The molded parts (fuselage, wings, cowls etc) are ready to paint
> only requiring a light sanding. We washed the parts with soap and warm
> water; then sanded with 280-320 grit sandpaper to remove any shine.
> (Europa says 360 grit but that wasn=99t available here).
> 2. The foam filled flying surfaces (flaps, ailerons, tailplanes and
> rudder) need filled before painting. We washed them first as well.
>
> The foam filled flying surfaces must be post cured for 8-10 hours at 40-5
0
> deg C. We used epoxy mixed with expancel (supplied with the kit) to fill
> the weave. You want a pretty dry mixture (as much expancel as you can g
et
> into the epoxy so it isn=99t shiny). Best results are if each batc
h is mixed
> in exactly the same proportions because if you have to refill a spot and
> one batch was wetter, it will be harder than the filler next to it which
> makes sanding evenly very difficult. We mixed a set amount of epoxy and
> then measured the expancel (by volume 1 part mixed epoxy to 10 parts
> expancel worked for us). We mixed some plain epoxy and wiped a little on
> the weave with an old sock so that the dry expancel mixture would adhere.
> Then let the expancel dry thoroughly. In damp, cool Michigan, that could
> take days! Then sand to properly contour, refilling & sanding as necessa
ry.
>
> We used expancel/epoxy to smooth and fill the joints where the fuselage
> halves meet and the closeout panels on the top wing surfaces. Probably
> spread the filler to an area 6-8 inches wide on either side of the seam t
o
> get a nice blended surface.
>
> There were a series of articles in Sport Aviation around 2005 that we use
d
> for guidance. The articles are available as a book from EAA,
> http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa-shop/media/aviation-books/
> 2256137300000__how-to-paint-your-own-airplane
>
> We followed the articles closely and used Poly Fiber=99s products a
nd
> instructions for applying the products. We washed the parts with 310
> Alkaline cleaner mixed 20:1 with water, rinsed thoroughly and used Prep
> Wipe. We then used UV Smooth Prime on the entire airframe, both molded
> parts and foam filled parts to provide UV protection for the fiberglass.
It
> also gave a hard finish without pinholes. This was followed by Epoxy
> Primer EP420 and finally Aerothane final finish. We then color sanded.
> Probably the epoxy primer was not necessary.
>
> We were advised not to use polyester automotive filler because it does no
t
> remain flexible enough to handle the movement of composites. At that time
> (2005) we were also advised not to use automotive paint for the same
> reason, but many seem to have success with it. As Ira states, we saw his
> airplane when we were at Custom flight Creations in December and it looks
> great!
>
> There are as many opinions about painting as their are Europas! This is
> how we did ours and we are happy with the results. Hopefully Bud Yerly
> will comment as he has much more experience, especially using the product
s
> available today.
>
> Jim & Heather
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465719#465719
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Trips 2017 UK/Europe |
Well. With or without other Europa pilots I'm planning to come.
I've only familiar with flying in the UK. I have lots of questions. I hope you
don't mind.
1. Are there any differences in RT procedures in other counties?
2. Is the handover procedure between counties in Europe the same as between the
UK and France?
3. I assume I have to land at a customs in France before continuing. Is that correct?
4. Do I have to land at customs in each country?
5. How many flight plans do I need to file - one end-to-end plan or one per country?
Perhaps it would be better to chat on the phone? If you email me privately I can
send you my contact details.
All the best.
Carl
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465726#465726
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