---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/14/17: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:06 AM - Re: Re: Help requested please (Rowland Carson) 2. 05:06 AM - Re: Tail Plane Fitting (h&jeuropa) 3. 05:11 AM - Re: Airmaster whirlwind blades (h&jeuropa) 4. 06:26 AM - Re: Airmaster whirlwind blades (Remi Guerner) 5. 06:31 AM - Re: Airmaster whirlwind blades (Remi Guerner) 6. 07:15 AM - PilotAware installation (Pete Lawless) 7. 08:26 AM - Re: PilotAware installation (Kevin Challis) 8. 09:04 AM - Re: PilotAware installation (Pete Lawless) 9. 09:21 AM - Re: Re: Airmaster whirlwind blades (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 10. 12:41 PM - Arctic trip (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 11. 12:56 PM - Re: Arctic trip (david park) 12. 01:21 PM - Re: PilotAware installation (graeme bird) 13. 02:04 PM - Re: Arctic trip (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 14. 02:11 PM - Re: Arctic trip (david park) 15. 02:44 PM - Re: Re: PilotAware installation (Pete Lawless) 16. 04:56 PM - Re: Re: Airmaster whirlwind blades (elsbeth moreland) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:58 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Help requested please From: Rowland Carson On 2017-05-13, at 18:24, Matt Dovey wrote: > Hi, > I've tried to join the club on a number of times but have received the same error. Matt - Im very sorry that our poor maintenance of the website has prevented you from joining the Club. Some time after the system was changed from the plain old PHP (in which I built a system to work with credit cards) to a WordPress template the Committee decided that we could no longer sustain the charges levied by the credit card issuing and processing companies. The links to the card system were removed then, but unaware to me they somehow managed to return, maybe as a result of crashes and rebuilding from backups by the hosting company. I think I have now removed the offending links (well I think Ive found all of them). We hope soon to provide a website that works properly (on a new host), for the benefit of all, and will once more provide a way to join and renew online. In the meantime I have forwarded your message to the Europa Club Committee. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:40 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Tail Plane Fitting From: "h&jeuropa" We seem to recall we had to "adjust" the pins to make our tail planes fit properly too. You can probably use a 1/4" drive deep well socket to slide over the pin and adjust it. We also found that lubrication is necessary. We use anti seize compound on the torque tube itself and the pins. This is especially necessary once in service since it is possible for moisture to weep past the pip pin and cause corrosion at the bearing inside the tailplane. We wipe a little anti seize on a stick to reach that bearing prior to installing the tailplanes. Jim & Heather Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469291#469291 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:05 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Airmaster whirlwind blades From: "h&jeuropa" David, We attempted to measure this yesterday. It is difficult to measure the incidence of the blade at the 1/3 radius point since the blade is not flat there. But making the level equidistant from the leading edge and the trailing edge at the point, the twist in the blade is around 14 deg. The blade has quite an airfoil shape so perhaps that accounts for the improved performance rather than twist. Jim & Heather Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469292#469292 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:34 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Airmaster whirlwind blades From: "Remi Guerner" Yes the article by Bud and Jim in EF 89 is interesting. Those Whirlwind blades are beautiful and the new ferrules are not protuding outside the spinner anymore as they do with the WarpDrive blades, adding drag without thrust. The possibility to upgrade an existing Airmaster/WrapDrive prop with the new blades is very tempting. However the article is disapointing regarding the compared cruise performances of the WD and WW blades. Both Bud and Jim say they see a few more knots at the same power setting. I have analyzed in details the figures shown in the charts for the Monowheel and here are my comments: 1. Some speed figures are very wide spread, sometimes 10 knots for the same conditions, probably because the air mass was not as stable enough during the testing. As we are looking for a few knots differences, that makes the comparison a little bit doubtful. 2. The tendency is a speed increase of 2 knots with the WW blades at altitudes up to 14000 ft. 3. The testing was done on the Rotax 914 only. I assume there would be some similar speed improvement also with the normally aspirated 912S. 3. Surprisingly at 17000 ft. figures show that the WW are slower than the WD for 3 out of the 4 power settings used for the test. So to summarize, sorry Bud, I do not see the 5 knots increase you are talking about. Regarding the alleged reduced fuel flow with the WW blades at a given power setting at the same density altitude, this is just not possible. That is the law of physics. If the fuel flow is lower, that is due to either a lower power setting or an inacurate fuel flow meter, not to the better prop blades. To conclude I pass the following message to Airmaster: with the Airmaster/WD blades on my Monowheel, 912 ULS, one on board, full fuel, I consistently get 140 kts TAS at full throttle, 5000 RPM at 8500ft density altitude. If I could get the proof that those WW blades would increase my cruise speed by 5 knots in those conditions, I would place an order immediately! Remi Guerner F-PGKL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469294#469294 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:16 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Airmaster whirlwind blades From: "Remi Guerner" Jim, 14 degrees of twist for the Whirlwind! By comparison, the WarpDrive blade has 16 degrees of twist and the high twist Woodcomp 24 degrees. So should we ask Whirlwind to design a new blade with more twist ? That would at least improve ground cooling and possibly give us some more speed. Remi Guerner F-PGKL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469296#469296 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:52 AM PST US From: Pete Lawless Subject: Europa-List: PilotAware installation Hi All Just wondering where people are fitting the PilotAware unit in the Europa. I am thinking of the shelf on rear D panel in my non extended baggage bay or a little higher up on a new bracket. Any suggestions? Thanks Pete G-RMAC Classic #109 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:23 AM PST US From: Kevin Challis Subject: Re: Europa-List: PilotAware installation I fitted mine on the passenger shelf, starboard side of the panel. Not very neat but works fine. One day I might move it somewhere out of sight. It really is a brilliant unit, the other day it showed another aircraft on a converging course. I knew where the other aircraft was but could not see it. Sure enough it appeared exactly where the Aware unit said it would. The Mk1 eyeball is remarkable limited in distance when looking for a small plane in a big sky. Kevin Challis G ODJG > On 14 May 2017, at 15:14, Pete Lawless wrote: > > > Hi All > > Just wondering where people are fitting the PilotAware unit in the Europa. I am thinking of the shelf on rear D panel in my non extended baggage bay or a little higher up on a new bracket. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks > > Pete > > G-RMAC Classic #109 > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: PilotAware installation From: Pete Lawless Thanks Kevin Wondered about there. Good to know it works. I am based between two busy gliding sites so the new OGN facility should be a real help. Not used it in flight yet but like what I see on the ground. Was going to try just the Radar screen on a browser or link it to XCSoar to see which I prefer. Pete On 14/05/17 16:24, Kevin Challis wrote: > > I fitted mine on the passenger shelf, starboard side of the panel. Not very neat but works fine. One day I might move it somewhere out of sight. > > It really is a brilliant unit, the other day it showed another aircraft on a converging course. I knew where the other aircraft was but could not see it. Sure enough it appeared exactly where the Aware unit said it would. > > The Mk1 eyeball is remarkable limited in distance when looking for a small plane in a big sky. > > Kevin Challis > G ODJG > > >> On 14 May 2017, at 15:14, Pete Lawless wrote: >> >> >> Hi All >> >> Just wondering where people are fitting the PilotAware unit in the Europa. I am thinking of the shelf on rear D panel in my non extended baggage bay or a little higher up on a new bracket. >> >> Any suggestions? >> >> Thanks >> >> Pete >> >> G-RMAC Classic #109 >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:59 AM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Airmaster whirlwind blades Remi, The comparisons I did between low & high twist woodcomp props were rigorous, all early in the day and over water to eliminate the risk of catching an early thermal. They were also all done approaching the test conditions from above, that is doing a shallow dive from something like 100ft above the chosen altitude and then waiting for the speed to stabilise whilst flying level. They showed a clear 5 kt advantage at low & middle altitudes (Vne exceedable at 10,000ft so no comparison possible) but also a clear cooling advantage not just on the ground but in the air. The required 5 min full power climb boiled the engine with the low twist one but was achieved without incident with the high twist. It is worth restating that with twist of the order of 14 degrees either the tip will be stalled or the inner part of the prop will be in Beta mode at speeds of 100kts or more. Ask yourselves why all prop driven war birds or Red Bull racers and the like have props with 24 or 26 degrees of twist! Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2017-05-14 14:30, Remi Guerner wrote: > > Jim, > 14 degrees of twist for the Whirlwind! By comparison, the WarpDrive blade has 16 degrees of twist and the high twist Woodcomp 24 degrees. So should we ask Whirlwind to design a new blade with more twist ? That would at least improve ground cooling and possibly give us some more speed. > Remi Guerner > F-PGKL > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469296#469296 [1] > Links: ------ [1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469296#469296 [2] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [3] http://forums.matronics.com [4] http://wiki.matronics.com [5] http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:49 PM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: Europa-List: Arctic trip We are now in final stages of planning the Arctic trip with provisional dates 2-10 June and anyone who has not contacted me already but is interested should get in touch PDQ! It will involve two legs/day flying for much of the journey there and back but with time to visit friends and sight see in stops in Finland. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Arctic trip From: david park Hoping to get Nevs cowling finished, counter sink all holes, prep for sprayi ng, make baffles, replace upper water hoses, Dave Park Dave Park > On 14 May 2017, at 20:41, davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk wrote: > > We are now in final stages of planning the Arctic trip with provisional da tes 2-10 June and anyone who has not contacted me already but is interested s hould get in touch PDQ! It will involve two legs/day flying for much of the j ourney there and back but with time to visit friends and sight see in stops i n Finland. > > Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:34 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: PilotAware installation From: "graeme bird" Mine is being mounted at an angle with P3i antenna pointing down on the back of the baggage bay rim behind my head and near as the top as possible. The small antenna I am intending to glue on the cieling of the fuslage away from the fuel filler pipe. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis ap, pflarm, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500 & SD on Nexus, 280 hours & 5 years on the Mono, 900 total g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469306#469306 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:26 PM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: Re: Europa-List: Arctic trip Dave, I am not clear whether that is a possible/probable/definite yes or no! David On 2017-05-14 20:55, david park wrote: > Hoping to get Nevs cowling finished, counter sink all holes, prep for spraying, make baffles, replace upper water hoses, > Dave Park > > Dave Park > > On 14 May 2017, at 20:41, davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk wrote: > >> We are now in final stages of planning the Arctic trip with provisional dates 2-10 June and anyone who has not contacted me already but is interested should get in touch PDQ! It will involve two legs/day flying for much of the journey there and back but with time to visit friends and sight see in stops in Finland. >> >> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Arctic trip From: david park Probable Dave Park > On 14 May 2017, at 22:03, davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk wrote: > > Dave, I am not clear whether that is a possible/probable/definite yes or n o! David > > > > >> On 2017-05-14 20:55, david park wrote: >> >> Hoping to get Nevs cowling finished, counter sink all holes, prep for spr aying, make baffles, replace upper water hoses, >> Dave Park >> >> Dave Park >> >> >>> On 14 May 2017, at 20:41, davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk wrote: >>> >>> We are now in final stages of planning the Arctic trip with provisional d ates 2-10 June and anyone who has not contacted me already but is interested should get in touch PDQ! It will involve two legs/day flying for much of th e journey there and back but with time to visit friends and sight see in sto ps in Finland. >>> >>> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:53 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: PilotAware installation From: Pete Lawless Hi Graeme Sort of what I was thinking once it has been test flown. But watch out for the small antenna! I stuck mine this morning with velcro and when I came to remove it the bottom cover of the antenna came off to reveal the little magnet. I think it will be better, without the base cover, epoxied on to a square of ply. On 14/05/17 21:20, graeme bird wrote: > > Mine is being mounted at an angle with P3i antenna pointing down on the back of the baggage bay rim behind my head and near as the top as possible. The small antenna I am intending to glue on the cieling of the fuslage away from the fuel filler pipe. > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis ap, pflarm, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500 & SD on Nexus, > 280 hours & 5 years on the Mono, 900 total > g(at)gdbmk.co.uk > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469306#469306 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:11 PM PST US From: elsbeth moreland Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Airmaster whirlwind blades Hello trying to figure out how I would renew my membership in the Europa Club. I joined last year ,2016 , while at SUn n Fun. My name is Bill Moreland from Pa. I would love to renew my membership with your help. thank you, Bill Will be looking for your info and again thanks On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 8:10 AM, h&jeuropa wrote: > > David, > > We attempted to measure this yesterday. It is difficult to measure the > incidence of the blade at the 1/3 radius point since the blade is not flat > there. But making the level equidistant from the leading edge and the > trailing edge at the point, the twist in the blade is around 14 deg. > > The blade has quite an airfoil shape so perhaps that accounts for the > improved performance rather than twist. > > Jim & Heather > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469292#469292 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.