Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:04 AM - Re: POH Updates (tennant)
2. 03:44 AM - Re: Rotax Engine Alternatives - Aeromomentum (Richard Lamprey)
3. 04:04 AM - Re: Re: Rotax Engine Alternatives - Aeromomentum (houlihan tim)
4. 09:51 AM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__POH_Updates? ()
5. 10:19 AM - Re: POH Updates (William McClellan)
6. 11:35 AM - Re: Rotax Engine Alternatives - Aeromomentum (Robert Borger)
7. 02:27 PM - Re: Re: Rotax Engine Alternatives - Aeromomentum (William Daniell)
8. 04:15 PM - Re: Rotax Engine Alternatives - Aeromomentum (GTH)
9. 07:06 PM - Re: Rotax Engine Alternatives - Aeromomentum (Pete)
10. 08:03 PM - Oshkosh 2017 - almost here! (Peter Zutrauen)
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Hi Mike,
The owners manual is only a basis to start from, but as every aircraft is fitted
out differently, you will have to complete the POH yourself.
e.g. If you cannot get the information from someone else then you will have to
measure the start roll distance, climb rate etc. with your engine & prop at max
weight.
It is great fun finding the edges of the envelope for your plane and brings confidence.
Have fun
Barry
--------
Barry Tennant
D-EHBT
At EDLM - Germany
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471010#471010
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Subject: | Re: Rotax Engine Alternatives - Aeromomentum |
Graeme,
In regards to engines, I think it all boils down to how many headaches you want
to give yourself before you actually fly your Europa. In changing from the 'normal'
type of engine (Rotax 912 range) to one that has not been tested, certified
in a Europa somewhere else will give you so many problems that your head
will spin... engine mounts, new cowlings, cooling problems, propeller types,
not to mention of the miles of paperwork for/ with your regulator. The small
savings you may make on the engine cost will be gobbled up, 5 times, by all these
issues above. But if you want to be part of the R&D, by all means give it
a go... !
Richard
Classic Monowheel, Rotax 912UL, 5Y-LRY, Kenya
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471013#471013
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Rotax Engine Alternatives - Aeromomentum |
I concur with Richard, , a new engine installation can be done and may turn out
to be an improvement , developing new ideas is essential all our installations
were new once.
BUT as Richard suggests it will inevitably take longer than first thought and my
in the end have insurmountable problems , I know of more than one installation
that could not be made to work due to torsional vibration that would possibly
require a redesign of major engine components. I also know of a successful
installation that is now working well but took ten years of steady development
to make it work and it is still a "one off" with all that entails.
Do go ahead if you want to develop this system but if you want to fly your
aeroplane sooner take the easy way otherwise all the development time and money
will be on your shoulders.
Tim
G-BZTH a simple basic Classic with a 912 ul
>
> On 15 July 2017 at 11:44 Richard Lamprey <lamprey.richard@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> <lamprey.richard@gmail.com>
>
> Graeme,
> In regards to engines, I think it all boils down to how many headaches you
> want to give yourself before you actually fly your Europa. In changing from
> the 'normal' type of engine (Rotax 912 range) to one that has not been tested,
> certified in a Europa somewhere else will give you so many problems that your
> head will spin... engine mounts, new cowlings, cooling problems, propeller
> types, not to mention of the miles of paperwork for/ with your regulator. The
> small savings you may make on the engine cost will be gobbled up, 5 times, by
> all these issues above. But if you want to be part of the R&D, by all means
> give it a go... !
> Richard
> Classic Monowheel, Rotax 912UL, 5Y-LRY, Kenya
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: f-8?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_POH_Updates? |
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Message 5
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Mike,
Reading some of the statements in the Europa's Owners Manual and with my different
engine and different landing gear, I decided not to even mention I had such
a manual, saying I would prepare my own. I know its not much help after the
fact. This was of not much much matter to my inspectors. Much of the process
is appeasing them and given that every inspector/office is notably different
you just have to do what they want and not present them with things they could
or want to make an issue of. After you get the Special Airworthiness Cert and
Repairman Cert you will likely not have to deal with them any more. You do
the flight testing and after the 40 hrs, your log book entry makes you good to
go and free to fly where not otherwise prohibited.
Bill McClellan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Christine Duane <DuaneFamly@aol.com>
>Sent: Jul 14, 2017 2:14 PM
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: POH Updates
>
>
>Where would one find updates for the Pilot's Operating Handbook? I have all the
back issues of the Europa Aviation news and the Europa Flyer but have not seen
anything. The FAA seems to want this for my inspection.
>Mike Duane
>Las Vegas
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Rotax Engine Alternatives - Aeromomentum |
Graeme,
I concur with the commentary by others warning of very long term project to implement
a non-supported engine. Unless the vendor has already designed and built
engine mounts, cowling molds, electrical system, fuel system, cooling system
and power train you will be the development and test item for him.
You can buy all the necessary elements for a successful engine installation and
be flying quickly or you can spend years (decades?) trying to develop them yourself.
If you want to become an aeronautical engineer, go for it. If you want
to build and fly your Europa, go for the Rotax or other supported engine.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Jul 13, 2017, at 11:06 PM, Graeme Hart <graeme.hart@onecoolkat.com> wrote:
Hi All
I'm starting to look at engine options for my XS Trigear.
Rotax 912 ULS looks a great option (factory supported and well understood) apart
from the cost.
Aeromomentum claim they have a 100hp engine that is only 5 pounds heavier than
a Rotax 912 ULS and lighter than a 914. Claimed TBO is 1500 hours.
The conversion is based on a new Suzuki engine and has fuel injection so no carb
balancing required.
I understand the Europa is quite sensitive to engine weight but as there are quite
a few 914 powered machines and this is lighter than a 914 then it should be
OK.
I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with any experience with Aeromomentum or with
Europa experience with non Rotax engines.
Thanks
Graeme
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Rotax Engine Alternatives - Aeromomentum |
I concurr with all comments...i looked at the subaru options but changed my
mind after some very strong recommendations from the forum.
On Jul 15, 2017 06:46, "Richard Lamprey" <lamprey.richard@gmail.com> wrote:
> lamprey.richard@gmail.com>
>
> Graeme,
> In regards to engines, I think it all boils down to how many headaches you
> want to give yourself before you actually fly your Europa. In changing
> from the 'normal' type of engine (Rotax 912 range) to one that has not been
> tested, certified in a Europa somewhere else will give you so many problems
> that your head will spin... engine mounts, new cowlings, cooling problems,
> propeller types, not to mention of the miles of paperwork for/ with your
> regulator. The small savings you may make on the engine cost will be
> gobbled up, 5 times, by all these issues above. But if you want to be part
> of the R&D, by all means give it a go... !
> Richard
> Classic Monowheel, Rotax 912UL, 5Y-LRY, Kenya
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471013#471013
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Rotax Engine Alternatives - Aeromomentum |
/Le 15/07/2017 20:34, Robert Borger a crit :
/
> /You can buy all the necessary elements for a successful engine
> installation and be flying quickly or you can spend years (decades?)
> trying to develop them yourself. /
Hi Graeme and all,
It is very difficult to develop a reliable and successful PSRU with a 4
cylinder engine.
If this new engine had succeeded, no doubt they would mention it with
pride. The fact that they just casually talk about it might indicate
they did not spend much time designing and developing it.
Be prepared to help develop the engine and its reduction unit as well.
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Rotax Engine Alternatives - Aeromomentum |
I agree that the PSRU is the biggest issue with any auto conversion due to r
esonance issues, and why I would not buy a Viking, as Egenfeller is not an e
ngineer and is continually developing his installations at his customer's ex
pense. I still awaiting a gearbox faliure due to Viking 100% reliance on a c
hopped up Mercedes rubber coupling.
I chatted with the Aeromomentum folks at last years Osh, and will watch to s
ee how his gearbox solution holds up over the longer term.
The neatest pipedream I could figure would be add diesel to the wings in add
ition to the main tank and throw in one of these .... can you say smoooooooo
oth?
https://www.turb.aero/ta120tp-turboprop
I'll be watching closely to see how they deal with the materials science dem
ands of a turbine. Their efficiency isn't bad for a TP .... using regen to h
elp.
Im planning on chatting with the principles of the company at Osh to see wha
t their plans are. Would that be too cool though?
Failing all the above, my stretch goal will be the 915is .... I wonder what k
ind of performance numbers the Europa would get with this...
Cheers,
Pete
> On Jul 15, 2017, at 7:15 PM, GTH <gilles.thesee@free.fr> wrote:
>
>> Le 15/07/2017 =C3- 20:34, Robert Borger a =C3=A9crit :
>>
>> You can buy all the necessary elements for a successful engine installati
on and be flying quickly or you can spend years (decades?) trying to develop
them yourself.
>
> Hi Graeme and all,
>
> It is very difficult to develop a reliable and successful PSRU with a 4 cy
linder engine.
> If this new engine had succeeded, no doubt they would mention it with prid
e. The fact that they just casually talk about it might indicate they did no
t spend much time designing and developing it.
> Be prepared to help develop the engine and its reduction unit as well.
> --
> Best regards,
> Gilles
> http://contrails.free.fr
> http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
Message 10
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Subject: | Oshkosh 2017 - almost here! |
For the Europarites who are planning on the show, don't forget to drop by my
trailer's beer/pop cooler and shaded lawnchairs at the tower gate ... just d
rop me a note on the white board if I'm not around, and leave messages to ot
her Europa nuts too :-)
I'm hitting the road again for the show this Wed.
Cheers and blue skies,
Pete
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