Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:24 AM - aileron balancing (Rowland Carson)
2. 09:57 AM - Re: aileron balancing (William Daniell)
3. 11:18 AM - Re: aileron balancing (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
4. 12:43 PM - UK trip report Scilly Isles (graeme bird)
5. 01:08 PM - Re: aileron balancing (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
6. 02:42 PM - Re: UK trip report Scilly Isles (James Kelly)
Message 1
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| Subject: | aileron balancing |
Having got my ailerons back from the painter, I weighed them. The port one was
2480g before filling, profiling & painting; that whole process has added 625g
to make it now 3105g. The starboard one was 2495g, and gained 670g to make it
3165g. The paint was 2-pack automotive which I was assured would turn out much
lighter (and cheaper!) than the gel-coat I had originally envisaged.
I started into the balancing procedure described in the manual. I found my hinges
are not quite free enough to let the ailerons swing freely from them, so I
made loops of nylon fishing line, put them under the hinge knuckles and suspended
the ailerons from them. Alas! - both the ailerons balance with the TE slightly
down. I find that if I put a lead weight on one horn, I can make the aileron
balance level. My piece of lead weighs 366g and level balance is obtained
with it about 50mm forward of the hinge line.
Thus the out-of-balance moment towards the TE is 0.0183 metre-kg. I wonder if there
is any tolerance on the amount of out-of-balance that is allowed or is safe
- but I dont want to take any chances with flutter.
Avid readers of my online build journal will recall that in May 2003, on advice
from Neville about getting the proper aileron travel, I shaved a little off the
top of the lead weights before attaching them to the aileron horns. It now
appears that either I must have shaved too much or that the painting has been
much more generous than Neville expected.
What should I do? I suppose the ideal thing is to rub down all the paint back to
the glass/filler again and ask the painter to put on a lighter coat. I dont
have access to depleted uranium to insert into the mass horns to make them heavier!
I hope I might see Andy Draper at the LAA Rally and ask for his advice, but would
welcome any thoughts others on this forum might have on the matter.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: aileron balancing |
Rowland.
When I balanced mine - admittedly I had not shaved anything off the top - I
not only had to drill a 1/2" hole, I practically had to hollow out the
weights to get them to balance per the manual. It was a very annoying job
with the drill bit catching on the lead etc. I read from the forum
that this is quite common.
So it surprises me that yours balance TE down.... perhaps some pics of your
aileron balance horn and the box into which it fits might be helpful.
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson@gmail.com>
wrote:
m
> >
>
> Having got my ailerons back from the painter, I weighed them. The port on
e
> was 2480g before filling, profiling & painting; that whole process has
> added 625g to make it now 3105g. The starboard one was 2495g, and gained
> 670g to make it 3165g. The paint was 2-pack automotive which I was assure
d
> would turn out much lighter (and cheaper!) than the gel-coat I had
> originally envisaged.
>
> I started into the balancing procedure described in the manual. I found m
y
> hinges are not quite free enough to let the ailerons swing freely from
> them, so I made loops of nylon fishing line, put them under the hinge
> knuckles and suspended the ailerons from them. Alas! - both the ailerons
> balance with the TE slightly down. I find that if I put a lead weight on
> one horn, I can make the aileron balance level. My piece of lead weighs
> 366g and level balance is obtained with it about 50mm forward of the hing
e
> line.
>
> Thus the out-of-balance moment towards the TE is 0.0183 metre-kg. I wonde
r
> if there is any tolerance on the amount of out-of-balance that is allowed
> or is safe - but I don=99t want to take any chances with flutter.
>
> Avid readers of my online build journal will recall that in May 2003, on
> advice from Neville about getting the proper aileron travel, I shaved a
> little off the top of the lead weights before attaching them to the ailer
on
> horns. It now appears that either I must have shaved too much or that the
> painting has been much more generous than Neville expected.
>
> What should I do? I suppose the ideal thing is to rub down all the paint
> back to the glass/filler again and ask the painter to put on a lighter
> coat. I don=99t have access to depleted uranium to insert into the
mass horns
> to make them heavier!
>
> I hope I might see Andy Draper at the LAA Rally and ask for his advice,
> but would welcome any thoughts others on this forum might have on the
> matter.
>
> in friendship
>
> Rowland
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: aileron balancing |
Rowland, I am appalled/alarmed to hear that each aileron has gained
something like 1.5 lbs. I would suggest a couple of things - firstly do
a surface area calculation and work out how much weight the whole
aircraft is due to gain with current paint system, and secondly sand it
off one aileron and get Roger Targett to gel coat it, rub it down to
that perfect laminar flow finish and see how much that has added. The
great thing about gel coat is that you remove most of it, rubbing down
with wet and dry sandpaper. My gel coated 914 XS is one of the lightest
on the register and it is not because of lack of kit! I would have done
some calculations myself but I have the dominant cat sitting on my lap
and he would be most offended if I went to measure things up! My mental
guesstimation though is that the ailerons have probably a bit less than
2% of total area, so you may be looking at your paint adding 100lbs,
which seems a fairly serious issue.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2017-08-29 17:56, William Daniell wrote:
> Rowland.
>
> When I balanced mine - admittedly I had not shaved anything off the top - I not
only had to drill a 1/2" hole, I practically had to hollow out the weights
to get them to balance per the manual. It was a very annoying job with the drill
bit catching on the lead etc. I read from the forum that this is quite common.
>
> So it surprises me that yours balance TE down.... perhaps some pics of your aileron
balance horn and the box into which it fits might be helpful.
>
> Will
>
> William Daniell LONGPORT
>
> +57 310 295 0744
>
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Having got my ailerons back from the painter, I weighed them. The port one was
2480g before filling, profiling & painting; that whole process has added 625g
to make it now 3105g. The starboard one was 2495g, and gained 670g to make
it 3165g. The paint was 2-pack automotive which I was assured would turn out much
lighter (and cheaper!) than the gel-coat I had originally envisaged.
>>
>> I started into the balancing procedure described in the manual. I found my hinges
are not quite free enough to let the ailerons swing freely from them, so
I made loops of nylon fishing line, put them under the hinge knuckles and suspended
the ailerons from them. Alas! - both the ailerons balance with the TE slightly
down. I find that if I put a lead weight on one horn, I can make the aileron
balance level. My piece of lead weighs 366g and level balance is obtained
with it about 50mm forward of the hinge line.
>>
>> Thus the out-of-balance moment towards the TE is 0.0183 metre-kg. I wonder if
there is any tolerance on the amount of out-of-balance that is allowed or is
safe - but I don't want to take any chances with flutter.
>>
>> Avid readers of my online build journal will recall that in May 2003, on advice
from Neville about getting the proper aileron travel, I shaved a little off
the top of the lead weights before attaching them to the aileron horns. It now
appears that either I must have shaved too much or that the painting has been
much more generous than Neville expected.
>>
>> What should I do? I suppose the ideal thing is to rub down all the paint back
to the glass/filler again and ask the painter to put on a lighter coat. I don't
have access to depleted uranium to insert into the mass horns to make them
heavier!
>>
>> I hope I might see Andy Draper at the LAA Rally and ask for his advice, but
would welcome any thoughts others on this forum might have on the matter.
>>
>> in friendship
>>
>> Rowland
>>
>> | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
>> | <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk [1]
>> | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
>>
>> ===================================
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>> ===================================
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>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ===================================
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>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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>> ===================================
Links:
------
[1] http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
Message 4
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| Subject: | UK trip report Scilly Isles |
https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=105228
In case anyone is vaguely interested
Lovely place
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis
AP, PAW, PFLARM core, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on Nexus,
SmartA3
290 hours & 5 years on the Mono, 930 total
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472328#472328
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: aileron balancing |
Rowlandyou could try some tunsten carbide grinding dust from you local tool
grinder?Mixed with a little epoxy its heavier than lead.Also polish off so
me of the paint, at the trailing edge will have most effect of course.
Graham
On Tuesday, 29 August 2017, 17:27, Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson@gmail.
com> wrote:
>
Having got my ailerons back from the painter, I weighed them. The port one
was 2480g before filling, profiling & painting; that whole process has adde
d 625g to make it now 3105g. The starboard one was 2495g, and gained 670g t
o make it 3165g. The paint was 2-pack automotive which I was assured would
turn out much lighter (and cheaper!) than the gel-coat I had originally env
isaged.
I started into the balancing procedure described in the manual. I found my
hinges are not quite free enough to let the ailerons swing freely from them
, so I made loops of nylon fishing line, put them under the hinge knuckles
and suspended the ailerons from them. Alas! - both the ailerons balance wit
h the TE slightly down. I find that if I put a lead weight on one horn, I c
an make the aileron balance level. My piece of lead weighs 366g and level b
alance is obtained with it about 50mm forward of the hinge line.
Thus the out-of-balance moment towards the TE is 0.0183 metre-kg. I wonder
if there is any tolerance on the amount of out-of-balance that is allowed o
r is safe - but I don=99t want to take any chances with flutter.
Avid readers of my online build journal will recall that in May 2003, on ad
vice from Neville about getting the proper aileron travel, I shaved a littl
e off the top of the lead weights before attaching them to the aileron horn
s. It now appears that either I must have shaved too much or that the paint
ing has been much more generous than Neville expected.
What should I do? I suppose the ideal thing is to rub down all the paint ba
ck to the glass/filler again and ask the painter to put on a lighter coat.
I don=99t have access to depleted uranium to insert into the mass hor
ns to make them heavier!
I hope I might see Andy Draper at the LAA Rally and ask for his advice, but
would welcome any thoughts others on this forum might have on the matter.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ... that's Rowland with
a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- http:/
/www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson=C2- =C2- =C2- Facebook: Rowland Cars
on
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: UK trip report Scilly Isles |
Hello Graeme,
It's a pity you didn't arrive on Friday we flew in from
Tatenhill and departed the following day. It was my 30th visit we normally
stay for a month or so, that's when I was sailing. My first flight to St Mary's
was an experience landing on 14. My Europa 053 is a conventional Taildragger
G-BWEG with no frills. I've sailed and delivered yachts sail and motor all over
Europe and nothing compares to the Scillies.
Best wishes
Jim Kelly
Sent from my iPad
> On 29 Aug 2017, at 20:42, graeme bird <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=105228
> In case anyone is vaguely interested
> Lovely place
>
> --------
> Graeme Bird
> G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis
AP, PAW, PFLARM core, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on Nexus,
SmartA3
> 290 hours & 5 years on the Mono, 930 total
> g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472328#472328
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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